Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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I came to the conclusion Thursday that I'd better jump on the last new Miyauchi Saturn III here in the States.
Kevin B. has been awaiting word from Miyauchi about any further Sat IIIs but it's not encouraging. As far as I know, this is one of the very last available anywhere.
The down side is that I will only have the 33x and 150x eyepieces; the 55x are not stocked by anyone I've checked with worldwide so my only chance is finding a used set and that's probably unlikely! Anyone who knows of any please let me know! (now or future!)
The mount option is still open; I decided to wait until I see them in person before I decide. They'll overpower the 501HDV head I'm pretty sure but I'll at least get an idea what I'm working with. It looks like the 503HDV or the 10" Hercules. CESDewar likes his 503; it's certainly the more compact option. The Hercules looks great but it seems like overkill for a 13# bin. I don't know how smooth the motions of the Hercules are with the teflon bearings. I've noticed teflon can have a bit of stiction compared to viscous photo heads.
Any recommendations from those using these mounts would be most welcome.
First light should be by the end of next week. The terrible fires in California have made for very smoky skies here in Nevada so time will tell.
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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edwincjones
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 4104
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congratulations,
I hope that you enjoy it as much as I do my miyauchi 20/26/37x100 florites.
For mount I have a UA Unistar on a Bogen 3058 mount-over mounted, but solid.
edj
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n w arkansas
Binocular, Solar, General Amateur Astronomy
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Wayne Parrish
sage
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 437
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Rich, Congrats,you will never be sorry you bought them !! I LOVE MINE ! Keep an ad on A-mart for the other ep's and you may see them turn up someday. If I can ever get the tim,I am going to get with Harry Seibert and see if we can come up with an adapter of sorts to use 1.25 standard ep's. He lives about 20 miles from me but I've just had so many personal/business issues to deal with that I haven't had time. I use a Hercules mount on Quickset tripod with Sky Commander and it works great. The teflon is a little sticky,but I found that if you clean them after the first few hours of use its better.
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1679
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Congratulations Rich - this was a smart purchase. These are absolutely wonderful binoculars with tack-sharp views and such a light weight. I can sit in my observing chair - reach out and pick up the mount and scope and move it - don't think I would like to try that with a 50lb BT-100 setup! I find the Bogen 475/503 setup to work very well provided that you are not often observing from windy locations - although there are very few attractive options to provide a substantially sturdier setup without some other compromises
The auxiliary finder scope is beautiful and I'm glad I got it, although I usually observe alone and use a GLP to position the scope in most cases. There are few dark sky objects that are outside of the reach of these binoculars under dark skies. As time goes on, I keep on coming back to these binoculars - they are probably my favorite observing instrument.
Yes, the dearth of eyepieces is a problem. I have the 54x EP's and I use them frequently. I would love to have some 80-90x EP's as the 150's are a bit too high (but still useful - how often can one say one has split the double-double, see Uranus as a disk, or seen Saturn's CD in a pair of binoculars!).
Perhaps you can join Wayne and me in trying to persuade Harry Siebert to produce a 1.25" to Miyauchi Adapter that includes an OCA - such an adapter would allow the use of standard 1.25" EP's and be a wonderful solution to this problem!
I do have a pair of 17mm Wide field EP's with StellarVue OCA's screwed into them - with some black electrical tape to thicken them up a bit, they fit nicely into the Saturn III's and offer about 90x. It's a kludge though, and take some fiddling to get the EP's properly aligned, but it is tantalizing in that the views (when aligned) are just great and show how well a pair of EP's in the 80-90x range would work...
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Congratulations, Rick- I've drooled over them.... but with retirement looming hopefully in the near future, well, one just can't have them all~ *sigh* I'm certainly glad they went to someone here on C/N.... good luck finding the eyepieces. Harry would be a great resource in perhaps helping you out- with either adaptors- or making you a pair of eyepieces to fit. That might be your best option? Again- Congratulations!
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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BlueRidge
sage
Reged: 01/12/07
Posts: 284
Loc: Blue Ridge Mtns., VA
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Congrats! A real shame one of the premier bino companies seems to be going the way of the wind. Hope you enjoy them as much as I have the BR141 Galaxies!!!
Bill H
Syria, VA
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Celestron Skymaster 15 x 70's, Miyauchi BR-141's
Celestron Nexstar 11 GPS, SkyAlign upgrade
Celestron 9.25 XLT OTA, CG-5 Mount
Stellarvue SV90TBV
Denk II Binoviewers/#S2 Power/Filterswitch
21mm and 14mm Denk EPs
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Thanks for the replies. I'm excited!
The only thing that held me back was the rarity of the eyepieces. Your positive reviews of the Saturns convinced me they were a great choice in a 100mm binocular. I realized it had come to now or never!
I'll contact Harry Siebert and let him know I'd be happy to add my name to the list of eyepiece adapter prospects. The idea of an adapter/ OCA is excellent. Kevin told me they didn't have enough back focus to adapt standard eyepieces. I wonder what it would take to get Mr. Siebert interested! 
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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RichD
super member
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 158
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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You won't regret it i'm sure!
I'm extremely jealous.
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Clear skies
Rich
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Wayne Parrish
sage
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 437
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Rich V, Do contact Harry and maybe that will help in getting his interest up.Harry had talked of using some other optical lens to help in the focus of the 1.25 standard ep's,but not being an optical literate person i didn't quite follow the thought.I "will" do my best to get down to Harry's with my Sat III's either this week or next at the latest and let him "put his hands " on it to see what he can come up with. Wayne
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Rick M
member
Reged: 01/14/05
Posts: 70
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA
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Wayne,
I would be interested in other EPs for my Saturn IIs as well. I have been trying for 9 months to get the 44x EPs but with no luck.
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Rick M
Leica 7x42 BA
Leica 8x20 BCA
Leica 10x30 BA
Pentax PCF III 7x50
William Optics 7x50ED
Fujinon 10x70
Miyauchi NBA-71 Saturn II
Garrett Optical 20x110 Signature
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Rick, you would make the fourth person here on CN so far looking for eyepiece alternatives for the Saturn binoculars.
I'll call Harry Siebert tomorrow and see if the economics of four pairs of OCA adapters might get him to consider this little project. The more interest we show, the more incentive it should give him for serious consideration.
Poor Wayne will likely be the one caught in the middle of this as he's the one closest to Siebert's shop. There will surely be some experimentation involved in getting the focus right.
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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I just ordered the 115 EP,s for the Saturn II.
Kevin at big bins said he only had 2 sets left .
I wish they had something in the 60 T0 75 range.
Brian.
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 286
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Regarding adapting 1.25" eyepieces. Getting them to work depends on the distance between the last prism face (or optical window, if used) and the focal surface. One of you should measure this, as it would serve as a useful benchmark.
The other potential problem is the height of the eyepiece barrels, which should be measured, too. If they're tall, and if this is combined with a small prism face-to-focus distance, the kinds of eyepieces you can use are limited. Mainly to those of longer focal length. Short f.l. eyepieces would probably have to be inserted rather deeply.
I wonder how some of the higher-power eyepieces equipped with Barlow lenses of their own would fare? Of course, because it's mainly in the high power regime where incompatibilities rear their head, the solution of some kind of OCA might be the best path to follow.
Unless you're willing to cut down or replace the eyepiece barrels with shorter ones....?
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Wayne Parrish
sage
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 437
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The 115x ep's are the same as the 150x ep's for the Sat III's . I am pretty sure of this as dewar had compared one or the other of the ep's that I sent him to compare ,I think thats right.Maybe dewar can jump in on this.As for getting my Sats to Harry,i will be happy to do that. I just have not had the time to devote to it prior to now. Wayne
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Thanks for that info Wayne .Handy to know if i,m fortunate enough to get the III,s sometime.
Brian.
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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That's correct; both Saturn models use the same eyepieces. They are not compatible with the Galaxy models, I'm told.
Brian, are you also interested in the possibility of an optical corrector/ eyepiece adapter? The more the merrier.
Maybe we will get lucky, who knows.
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1679
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Quote:
The 115x ep's are the same as the 150x ep's for the Sat III's . I am pretty sure of this as dewar had compared one or the other of the ep's
Correct - they are identical - different magnification just comes from the different FL of the Saturn II's vs. III's.
There is no question this is a solvable problem optically. The StellarVue OCA is about $50 and I happened to have two of them - they are small and screw into a regular 1.25" EP and with those, the 17mm Siebert EP's came into focus in the S3's. The other issue is the physical adapter. 1.25" is about 31.5mm and the Miya's are about 32.5/32.7mm so the sleeve would have to be awfully thin.
It may not be practical to make a general purpose 1.25" adapter, but I think just putting together a dedicated EP would also be useful as there is a real market for some magnification between 54x and 150x on the S3's and between 41x and 115x on the S2.
Here's a rough chart of the magnification.
Not sure what the FL is of the 33x EP's (I have the 19.2), but it has to be close to 23mm. Miyauchi did show 10mm, 7.5mm and 6mm EP's on their website at one time (I contacted Miyauchi directly about them and the elder Miyauchi actually said he would make several sets for me, but his sons who I think now run the business over-ruled him 
Anyway, if just one EP was going to be made, I would opt for around 8mm and 94x (S3) or 71x (S2) as being a good compromise. The 5mm EP is useful when the binoculars are well aligned, but it's really a bit too much magnification for this scope.
I don't think Harry would have any difficulty selling at least a dozen+ pairs of eyepieces in this range. Regular Miyuchi EP pairs for the S2/S3 sell for around $300-$330 and while I would not pay a large premium for EP's in this range, I would probably go up to $400 if they worked well and maybe others would too?
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medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 507
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Yes Rich i would be interested.
Brian.
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2297
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Harry's the man to talk to.. I worked with him before on some eyepieces for my Vixen BT80M's, and he was most happy to accomodate my requests.
Wes
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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I agree ... I can't understand well (maybe because of my poor English) where the problem is.
I think maybe Miyauchi has produced their binoculars in a way they could more easily sell their oculars, using proprietary values ...
I conseil to take a look at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyepiece
the problem is IMHO similar of using a star diagonal like the one below; I've choosen the first good image I found:
http://snipurl.com/2rg48
the metal polished tube goes inside the telescope, let's forget it; the black one takes the eyepieces.
It's clearly a standard 1.25" model, but let's imagine it is a proprietary one. It is surely attached to the body of the prism housing mecanically: via a thread, I think. If it's true, there should be little problem to make an eyepiece holder with different proportions. It's just a question of making a rightly threaded cylinder with the right lenght and internal diameter. The most important question, as you pointed out, is to know where is the image plane formed by the objectives respect to the "end of the eyepiece holder" (I don't know how to put it better) of an object at infinity, like the moon, to have an idea of how things should be made. Just my 2 cents, cheers.
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Good morning, all,
I talked with Harry Siebert this AM and had a good discussion of the situation; he is interested!
Wayne, I realize you have more important commitments for your time but when you can, Harry would like to see a Saturn w/ eyepieces. If he can make an adapter or fill some of the holes in the eyepiece lineup it would be great! I'd like to think that we can come up with a way to help compensate you for your personal efforts in this matter.
Best regards,
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 286
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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In the Chinese-made RA-88's and -70's, the focus is so close to the optical window immediately behind the last prism face that the eyepieces for these instruments must have their field stops right at the very bottom of the barrels. If *any* dust settles on the windows, it's almost surprisingly sharply visible, due to the small distance from the image plane.
If one wanted to use a 1.25" eyepiece (which would have to have its barrel "padded" so as to fit more snugly), the barrel might have to be cut shorter so that the field stop is at the very lip.
I wonder how the Miyauchi's fare in this area?
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Wayne Parrish
sage
Reged: 02/23/04
Posts: 437
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Rich V,you won't owe me anything for getting this done. I have just gotten another job dropped in our lap so i know it won't be this week.I do have a job next week to start and its in the general direction of Harry's ,so I'll try my VERY best to get it to him next week.You guys have a great and safe 4TH and don't eat too many hot dogs ! Wayne
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Wayne, I'm sure the new bins with two sets of eyepieces will keep me busy for a while. The 4th is my birthday so I quarantee there'll be a barbeque!
Mr. Siebert has some projects he's trying to finish now but he's pretty confident he can come up with a solution that will give us more options with the Saturns. He said it would only be a matter of months. I'm encouraged at that. I sent him a link to this thread so he could see there are a number of Saturn users here on CN who would like a better range of magnifications.(Not to mention all the other Saturn users worldwide!) Steuart made some very useful points in his last post that should help get things going in the right direction.
Try not to work too hard and have a nice holiday!
Rich V
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Vincent33
member
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 95
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Quote:
In the Chinese-made RA-88's and -70's, the focus is so close to the optical window immediately behind the last prism face that the eyepieces for these instruments must have their field stops right at the very bottom of the barrels.
[...]
If one wanted to use a 1.25" eyepiece (which would have to have its barrel "padded" so as to fit more snugly), the barrel might have to be cut shorter so that the field stop is at the very lip.
What surprises me is that on OEM page (I past the link again):
http://www.united-optics.com/products/Binoculars/Giant_Binoculars/BA6_Series/BA6.htm
among their "Common Features" is told "1.25" Helical focusers", this let me (and others maybe) think they can accept ALL common eyepeces ...
Quote:
I wonder how the Miyauchi's fare in this area?
I surely don't know ... cheers.
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pcad
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1407
Loc: Connecticut
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Vincent,
I can't be sure either, but the current 70mm models still use proprietary ep's just as the 88's have in the past. I believe there are eyepieces in all the RA models shown. They don't look standard to me.
The 45 degree models are another story. They seem to accept the 1.25" ep's as pictured.
Sometimes the copy misses something in translation. The page was likely updated when the new 45 degree models were added. All those models use 1.25 focuers.
This sort of thing happened to Orion's copy not too long ago when they introduced their 102ED f/7 scope. There were all sorts of copy errors with the new products. Took awhile to straighten out all the boo-boo's
Peter
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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The Saturn IIIs arrived yesterday; I put them on the 3036 tripod and 501HDV head. My next chore was to fabricate a plate to mount my Stellarvue MRF to the shoe on the binoculars. Some 1/4"x1" alum. plate stock with some drilling and tapping and polishing and it came out just fine.
The skies have been smoky and the jet stream was overhead last night but I HAD to give them a look. At 33x the Cygnus area was very nice; lots of stars! I looked at the Ring and the Dumbell and some of the dark nebula action near Deneb; these bins really pull in the stars! The haze made the LM pretty low but still got a pretty good view of M51 but M101 was pretty faint. I can see that 33x and 2° is a sweet spot for these 100mm binoculars.
At 150x with the terrible seeing, Vega had a blue halo around it and the Double Double showed as elongated but not split. The Ring looked pretty good, though. Jupiter showed some mild fringing but the NEB and SEB were obvious as well as signs of the fainter belts/ zones. I can see already that the seeing has to be MUCH better to make good use of 150x. I can't wait for a steady night with the Moon.
The 501HDV is a bit wimpy for these 13# bins but it will do until I come up with a mount decision. For standing viewing, the extra height of the 3036 vs. the 475 is useful as these binoculars are pretty long and viewing at a high angle calls for a very tall tripod. Using the Saturns seated at a lower height looks like the best way to observe with these. An extended tripod is always an invitation for disappointment.
Here are a few quick pictures of the Saturns I shot this AM:
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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Another
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Rich V.
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 884
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada USA
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And another
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Binoculars: 33-150x100 Saturn III, 16x70FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes: C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 9959
Loc: Lancashire UK
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VERY nice , Rich !
I get the feeling you are going to have a lot of memorable moments with these binoculars !
Wishing you clear skies under which to do so :-)
Kenny
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Two eyes and a preference to use both
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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