Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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Hello everyone! My first post here, this looks like a great site for information with alot of helpful people. I am very new to astronomy (I know where to moon is, that's about it lol) but am very anxious to learn all I can.
I am getting a Zhumell 25x100 Tachyon Astromony Binoculars from Telescopes.com for my birthday next month. Zhumell Tachyon 25x100 Now I do realize that these are a tad big for a newbie, however when it's on sale, regular $600, for $240 I couldn't pass it up.
Now to a couple questions I have....
First question is about a mount. I was thinking of this one Zhumell Astronomical Tripod . Would this be ok or can you all recommend something else (nothing more expensive though, $250 is more than I wanted to spend for a tripod anyways) 
Second question was about collumating(sp?) the binoculars. What would you recommend I buy for that?
Well for now I think that is all of my questions. If you have any more tips please feel free to post, I need all the help I can get. Thanks for all your help, and have fun!
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3423
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Welcome to the forum, Vic. The binoculars should arrive collimated and if they're of any decent quality, should remain that way.
Come back in a few weeks when you realize you want something smaller to learn the sky.
-------------------- Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD
APM 107mm f/6.5 on GR3-DX
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3423
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Forgot to add: I don't have experience with that tripod, but it doesn't look too shabby. Normally, tripods work well with binoculars up to half the weight rating of the tripod (as a rough rule of thumb).
-------------------- Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD
APM 107mm f/6.5 on GR3-DX
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Rich V.
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1562
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Hi, Vic, welcome to Binoculars!
Getting such a large binocular as a first astro bin is taking quite a leap! If you'd have asked me first, I would have recommended a good 15x70 or lightweight 20x80 as maximum. A 10# binocular with a narrow field of view can be a handful even on a tripod.
That being said, if you're set on a 25x100, consider a tripod that has a geared center column so you can crank up the column instead of raising it by hand which can be awkward with such a large binocular. I know you don't want to spend over $250 and unfortunately, a Bogen/Manfrotto geared column tripod with a properly sized head will set you back $400-$500. I'm talking about a 3046/501HDV combo or a 475/501HDV combo. If you feel you can live with a rapid column, as it's called, your choice looks like it might be OK. I have no personal experience with that particular tripod/head. Did you read the user reviews?
As far as collimation goes, ideally it shouldn't be something you should have to worry about but these days relatively inexpensive binoculars aren't built to very high tolerances. If you see double with your new bins the vendor has a responsibility to replace them without cost to you. Make sure of this. You may be lucky!
If you haven't already looked through the "Best Of" section at the top of the page please give it a good read; it will arm you with a lot of helpful information.
Good luck and enjoy,
Rich V
-------------------- Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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KennyJ
   
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 13661
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Welcome and good luck from me too , Vic .
I say that in all sincerity , but some of my experiences with the lowest priced larger binoculars have led me to wonder if the time will ever come when some of them will be looked upon as doing little more for the promotion of astronomy from beginner to serious interest level , than didn't and still don't , the typical " toy shop " 60mm refractor with 500x magnification .
I can understand why for many , it would appear the BIGGEST one can buy for the SMALLEST amount of outlay may seem a logical way to go for beginning astronomy , but I remain firmly in the minority as a continuing sceptic ( English term for skeptic ! )
Regards from continually cloudy Lancashire Kenny
-------------------- If everyone is thinking about George S. Patton , then someone is not thinking
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Lancashire England
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Welcome Vic. They are are great set of guys here in the binoculars forum. I have learned so much in the last 12 months from them all. You're not going to regret joining. I've never had any bad information from them.
Just one word of advice from another newbie: try to get yourself something smaller. Perhaps 10x50 or 15x70?
Clear Skies.
-------------------- Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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Thanks for all the kind replies! I can definitely understand your suggestions of a smaller binocular to start with. I highly doubt this will be my only pair so my next purchase down the road would be a more handheld type.
Woohoo, according to Fedex my binoculars were delivered today! (getting presents early rocks!) 
Yonkers!... $400-$500 for a tripod... Does anyone have a link to those kind of tripods? I can't quite tell if those are on telescopes.com or not.
Well thanks again and keep piling on the good tips!
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KennyJ
   
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 13661
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I also agree with Glen .
IF you can get yourself a GOOD 15 x 70 , with around 4 degree TFOV , then all in all , it would take some beating in my opinion , for ANYONE getting into binocular astronomy .
Think of trying to find your way around the sky as being similar to trying to follow a road map ( in small print ) to a place you may have only visited once before , or never before , but starting from a place you DO know .
You need a certain amount of magnification to read the PRINT clearly , but if the map is magnified by TOO much - for example , easily readable , but covering an area ONLY close to where you are HEADING , you will never find the road LEADING to your desired destination .
There is a BIGGER difference than just figures alone may suggest , between a 4 degree TFOV and a 3 degree TFOV , and I think 4 degrees JUST ABOUT keeps the map covering an area navigatable , whilst at the same time bringing enough stars NOT SEEN by naked eye into the frame , to keep the mind appreciative of a " WOW " factor , not experienced with , for example , 10x magnification .
In addition , a great bonus is that 70mm binoculars are a LOT smaller ( easier to handle / mount ) than 80mm , 90mm and certainly 100mm binoculars .
100mm binoculars are VERY big , heavy and unwieldy items .
For a true beginner ( and indeed for many others ) potential practical problems and restrictions with 100mm binoculars are NOT to be underestimated .
Kenny
-------------------- If everyone is thinking about George S. Patton , then someone is not thinking
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Nick Lloyd
He asked for it
   
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 2185
Loc: cincinnati
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Vic- the Zhumell binoculars are not hard to collimate. Knowing/learning how to collimate them is more helpful than hoping you get a binocular that doesn't need it.
-------------------- "The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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richard7
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/02/07
Posts: 1668
Loc: Sacramento
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Hi Vic and welcome. I have those same binos along with an Orion paragon plus xhd tripod and head. The 25x100's are pushing it to near the limits but they are still quite stable. After a good thump I get full damping in well under 5 seconds but I haven't tried it in a good breeze yet so can't say anything there. They do, as expected, work better with the 20x80,s. At about $150 they fill my bill very well.
Richard Trost
-------------------- Richard Trost
Orion 130st, Ioptron e/r80
Meade 10x50, Konusvue 20x80, Zhumell Tachiyon 25x100
Coffee thermos and cup
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richard7
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 11/02/07
Posts: 1668
Loc: Sacramento
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One more note. The collimation of the Zhumells out of the box was spot on. No adjustment needed.
Richard Trost
-------------------- Richard Trost
Orion 130st, Ioptron e/r80
Meade 10x50, Konusvue 20x80, Zhumell Tachiyon 25x100
Coffee thermos and cup
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2345
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Yonkers!... $400-$500 for a tripod... Does anyone have a link to those kind of tripods?
Well thanks again and keep piling on the good tips!
http://www.garrettoptical.com/category-s/54.htm
-------------------- Celestron Traveler 8x25 & Bell & Howell 8x40 JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 JAPAN & Orion 15x70 Little Giant II JAPAN &
Orion 20x70 Little Giant II JAPAN & Orion 16x80 Giant JAPAN &
Orion 30x80 MEGAView JAPAN & Barska 30x80 X-Trail &
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90
Ps.33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made:
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Vic,
Well, it looks like the decision is final and your big binos are on the way. If you've never seen a pair of these in real life prepare to be amazed. They're huge.
Hope for the best (I'm rooting for you) but be set in case they have any problems. The price seems too good to be true; it may be or it may not be (I had the same experience in late 2006 when I ordered a pair). Not wanting to be discouraging, but mine had a couple of problems (I think it was defective eyepieces).
As fas as the Zhumell astronomical tripod goes - I'm surprised to see that it is still available. I also have one of these. It is solid enough to handle the 25x100s. However, mine has a slight problem that may or may not be inherent in the design: there is a slight amount of play in the tripod-shoe/bino-mount area (I think that's what it's called; where the bino mount fits into the receptacle on the top of the tripod head). It can be aggravating when grasping the binos while focusing, but otherwise isn't noticeable when manuvering the setup with the head's handle. There may be a way to shim this, though I've never attempted it. 
Mike Rapchak Jr.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 15316
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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All the other typical comparable (or better) models of 25x100 on the market sell for $399 or $379, $299, sometimes $259, none sell for $600. I'm pretty sure Zhumell's regular price has always been lower than all the others, for a long time.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Bill Huot
member
Reged: 08/07/05
Posts: 37
Loc: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Vic, congratulations on your new binos, and welcome to the group. I, too, jumped right up to the huge 25X100s when I got intrigued by the idea of binocular astronomy (although I had been using hand-held 10X50s before then). I (later) bought a higher-quality 15X70 to fill the gap.
As I understand it, all of the individual focusing 25X100s are basically the same binoculars, although they can be ordered from the Chinese manufacturers with different options which can affect quality. Your Zhumell is basically the same as the Oberwerk, Orion and Garrett 25X100s, so for the most part, the comments that have been made about those binos in past discussions will probably also apply to yours. IF the Zhumells are close to the same quality specs as my Obies, and if Zhumell's quality control is close to the same standards, you are getting a very good value at $240. More likely, the quality is not quite as good, but it is still a lot of glass for the money.
You say that you are new to astronomy. I think, and many of the participants in this forum would probably agree, you made a good choice in going for big binos rather than a telescope. I have an apo refractor, and have had 8" and 10" dobs, but I still get more enjoyment from my binos. I was at a star party last weekend and hardly even looked through my scope. It is probably true that a 15X70 would have made for an easier learning curve, but you will see many wonderful sights with your big binos.
Don't let the collimation thing worry you. Think of it as being like routine maintenance, and be prepared to do it each time you set up to view. I can do it in the dark now. You can get similar sized binos that are more solidly built and are less likely to need collimation, but they would cost you more than twice as much. If (or more likely, when) collimation is needed you can readily do it yourself. And collimating, or more accurately, conditionally aligning) a bino is a lot easier than collimating a Newtonian telescope. The only tool needed is a jeweler's screwdriver. There are good instructions on the Oberwerk site: http://www.oberwerk.com/support/collimate.htm
The flip side of the 25X power is that you only have a 2.5 degree field of view. That often makes it hard to figure out where the bino is pointing. I have found it useful to use a red-dot finder. They are inexpensive, and are easily attached to the barrel of the binos near the objectives (where the barrels are parallel to the axis of the binos). You can use the finder to point the bino to where the star charts tell you there is something interesting to see, or to tell you exactly where you are looking (so you can look it up on a star chart) after you have found something interesting when you are exploring.
You will need both a tripod and a mount (head) that are up to the task. With some luck or perseverance you might be able to find an inexpensive used video mount. The tripod has to be both robust and tall. My first tripod was just like the Zhumell model that you provided a link to, but mine has a different style mount. The tripod is strong enough, but I agree with Rich V's comment that you would be better off with a tripod that has a geared centre column that you can raise with one hand. That style requires two hands, and with a 10# bino, it has to be tightened pretty tight. In the world of astronomy it is not at all uncommon to spend more on the tripod and mount than on the optics, but this is a case where good gear is very important to an enjoyable experience and is a lifetime investment.
-------------------- Bill
Oberwerk 25X100IF; Garrett Signature 15X70
Captain's Helmsman 7X50; Minolta 10X50
Pentax Papilio 6.5X21
Couch Potato Binocular Mount
Manfrotto 503 mount / Acuter tripod (Gitzo clone)
Vixen fork mount / Manfroto 3246 tripod
William Optics Zenithstar 80
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Protheus
Vaguely offended
   
Reged: 09/01/07
Posts: 5311
Loc: Illinois, US
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Welcome Vic. I'm more of a telescope kind of guy. My largest binoculars are 15x70s, which I do quite like. Jupiter is an obvious first target to view with this kind of instrument...
Chris
-------------------- "To tread the sharp edge of a sword;
to run on smooth-frozen ice,
one needs no footsteps to follow..."
"Well, people sometimes ask me 'how did you get involved in astronomy?' I said 'I got born, what's your problem?'" -- John Dobson
"In discussing the large-scale structure of the cosmos, astronomers sometimes say that space is curved, or that the universe is finite but unbounded. Whatever are they talking about?" -- Carl Sagan
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Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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**UPDATE**
Hi all! Well I got the binoculars and when I opened the case, I just stood there laughing for several minutes. These things are HUGGGGGEEEEEEE! LOL! 
I picked them up and they have a very solid, professional feel. Anxiously I waited for dark so I could test them alittle, even though there was no tripod yet. What happened was I leaned sideways against my car and put my arm on the roof to give some balance. I looked at the moon and WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!! If I had a steady image you could count the craters, the detail was amazing! Where the shadow met the light side of moon was really cool. I soooo need a tripod lol.
Speaking of tripods, do you guys think this would do ok for a better tripod than the Zhumell one I linked in my first post? Oberwerk Wooden Tripod
Do I have to have an Oberwerk binocular to use that tripod?
As always, thanks for your assistance!
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 15316
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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that's a very strudy tripod but it is VERY short. I use that tripod to hold my 26# BT100, (different head). that head would work for you bino. You could only use it sitting down. You will soon find that you would need an adjustable height chair, as every altitude tyou point he binocs requires a different height seat so your eyes can meet the eyepieces.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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Hmmm.... do you have a suggestion for an adjustible chair for an overweight person? 
I was originally going to buy one of these chairs... XL Chairs
Also, about the wood tripod, what if it got wet? Would it break/collapse/be ruined??
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 15316
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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the tripod and a stardust chair
you could stand on this chair, but it cost a lot more than you had in mind. probably $175-$200. You're not going to hurt that tripod. But I would add, If I were looking for a tripod for me, I'd get something I could stand up with.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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Yea standing would also be good, but im 6'5", do they really get that tall?
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Lancashire England
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Vic, check out the specs on the Manfrotto 028. Mine's taller than me.
-------------------- Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
   
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 15316
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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maybe it would be good to read this article
Mounts and Tripods
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Nick Lloyd
He asked for it
   
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 2185
Loc: cincinnati
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I'm 6'4" and use the Bogen 3246 standing up. It is surprisingly stable at this altitude but folds down and fits diagonally in a 28" suitcase.
-------------------- "The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2345
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
do they really get that tall?
Manfrotto 3246 currently 028B Manfrotto Pro Tripod Maximum height just under 90" or 7.5'.
-------------------- Celestron Traveler 8x25 & Bell & Howell 8x40 JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 JAPAN & Orion 15x70 Little Giant II JAPAN &
Orion 20x70 Little Giant II JAPAN & Orion 16x80 Giant JAPAN &
Orion 30x80 MEGAView JAPAN & Barska 30x80 X-Trail &
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90
Ps.33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made:
Edited by hallelujah (07/12/08 01:13 PM)
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Lancashire England
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Is there anyone in the binoculars forum less than 6ft tall 
What's it like up there in the clouds guys 
Vertically challenged.
-------------------- Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2345
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Is there anyone in the binoculars forum less than 6ft tall
I am 5' 11 1/2" tall, but, I usually wear hiking boots to make myself appear vertically acceptable.
-------------------- Celestron Traveler 8x25 & Bell & Howell 8x40 JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 JAPAN & Orion 15x70 Little Giant II JAPAN &
Orion 20x70 Little Giant II JAPAN & Orion 16x80 Giant JAPAN &
Orion 30x80 MEGAView JAPAN & Barska 30x80 X-Trail &
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90
Ps.33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made:
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Lancashire England
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I shrunk 4'' when cuban heels went out of fashion in the 60's 
I shrunk again when I had a disc out a few years ago. Carry on like this and I'll disappear completely. Some say that it wouldn't be a bad thing
-------------------- Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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viperbob
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 08/20/07
Posts: 725
Loc: New Jersey
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Hmm how about 5 foot 6 7/16" an growing. Although i'm 66 years young, still have faith on 5' 7".  Different world "down here". VB
-------------------- VB
40 25'N 74 11'W
Nexstar 8se
Celestron 17AH Power Tank
William Optics Binoviewer
8x40 Nikon Action
Nagler 12mm Type 2
2 Panoptic 15mm's
Nagler 20mm Type 2
2 Televue Plossl's 25mm
32mm Televue Plossl
Panoptic 27mm
GSO SuperView 42mm
Televue 2X 1.25" Barlow
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Nick Lloyd
He asked for it
   
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 2185
Loc: cincinnati
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Quote:
Is there anyone in the binoculars forum less than 6ft tall 
What's it like up there in the clouds guys 
The air is thin but the views are great.
-------------------- "The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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Wes James
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3902
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5'7"
-------------------- Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Vic Mackey
member
Reged: 07/09/08
Posts: 11
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Thanks for the help everyone. I have decided to go with the Bogen Manfrotto 028B w/501 Head . More than I wanted to spend but if I can use it while standing and it keeps my binoculars steady, it will be worth it!
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2345
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Good choice, let us know how it works for you.
-------------------- Celestron Traveler 8x25 & Bell & Howell 8x40 JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 JAPAN & Orion 15x70 Little Giant II JAPAN &
Orion 20x70 Little Giant II JAPAN & Orion 16x80 Giant JAPAN &
Orion 30x80 MEGAView JAPAN & Barska 30x80 X-Trail &
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90
Ps.33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made:
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1895
Loc: Lancashire England
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Excellent choice. You won't be disappointed.
Clear Skies.
-------------------- Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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