Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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I'm looking to get either a pair of 15x70, 11x70 Oberwerks or 20x80 Standard Oberwerks. I know all three pairs are good and that the 20x80 standards probably have better overall "correction" towards the edges of the FOV....I really like large image scale in the 20x80's....but will the 20x80 standards be too heavy to hand hold?
Any advice and/or info from experienced users with these sizes of bins will be much appreciated !!! 
Thanks.
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
Edited by Markus (07/11/08 10:44 PM)
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
I'm looking to get either a pair of 15x70, 11x70 Oberwerks or 20x80 Standard Oberwerks. I know all three pairs are good and that the 20x80 standards probably have better overall "correction" towards the edges of the FOV....I really like large image scale in the 20x80's....but will the 20x80 standards be too heavy to hand hold?
No, they are not too heavy to handhold, BUT, you will NOT
be able to overcome the shakes of 20x magnification. If you really like the image scale of 20x (I prefer 30x) then don't shortchange yourself, just INVEST in a good tripod and head.
http://www.garrettoptical.com/category-s/54.htm
If "handheld" stargazing is a priority, you will find the 15x70mm more tolerable, BUT, it will still need to be mounted to take full advantage of the optics and the 15x magnification. I handhold all of my giant binoculars and I enjoy scanning the heavens, even at 30x, but, in all fairness, "scanning" does not compare to having them mounted, when it comes to image quality and steadiness of views.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (07/11/08 11:10 PM)
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5303
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Define "hand hold". What do you mean by it?
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7408
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Holding the bins with those manipulative members at the end of your arms.
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5303
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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I was asking the OP.
I would like the OP to say what he considers an acceptable length of time one should be able to hold a binocular and get a useful image.
Rich
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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What I am looking for is a pair of binocs I can use without a mount, even though using a mount is better, I don't want to have to fiddle with a mount when using the bins.
I know that @ 11x power, the "wigglies" will not be as present as say a 15x or 20x power binocular. I like the large image scale a 20x power binocular more and I just discovered that garret optical sells an UL pair of 20x80 bins.
The best pair I ever owned was a pair of 11x80 binocs: @ 11x power and 80mm objective, they were great when I viewed Comet Hale Bopp and Hyakutake, amongst other objects and I was able to hand hold these for a short while.
I'm actually looking for comments from actual "users" of the 20x80 Standards by Oberwerk and the 15x70 / 11x70 Oberwerk binocs.....I already read several reviews here & on the net.
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1259
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Hi Markus,
I have the OB 20x80 Standard. I certainly connot hold it by hand--it's on one of my Bogen tripods at the moment. But I have a very bad back due to an industrial accident, so it's no wonder.
However, I do have an OB 11x56 which I can handhold, simply because the ergonomics are just so "right" for me.
In addition, I have the Cannon 10x30 and 15x50 IS binoculars, which are the best that there are in that regard, IMO.
Best regards,
Dave.
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werewolf6977
Lord High Smasher
Reged: 12/15/03
Posts: 7408
Loc: Hanover, Ohio
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Rich N, I'm sorry. Sir. My long-lost daughter of 19 years duration contacted me this week. I'm so happy, I'm absolutely giddy. Again, I apologize for my smart-aleck, sarcastic reponse to your honest question. 
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Pete
6" Apogee/LXD55 - "The Beast"
Starhopper 6" Dob - "Shiva"
Spaceprobe 130 EQ - "Spacey"
Bushnell Fatboy
The Abomination
Sun Pak Pro 7500 Platinum Edition
10X25 Bushnell Camo Roofies
7X35 Tasco Classic Plastic (good views though)
7X42 Tasco Rare Bird
10X50 Nikon Actions (Type 7)
15X70 Skymasters - "DroolMeisters"
One ratty old IBM 600E LapTop
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CharlieInDayton
member
Reged: 12/28/05
Posts: 75
Loc: Directly above Earth's center....
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Cheap cure for the 'wobblies'...balance 'em on the end of an old broomstick while seated...works great...and it's cheap!!!
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It doesn't matter what you're looking at.
It doesn't matter what you're looking through.
It never looks like the pictures...
Charlie in Dayton
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12516
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I've owned all those binoculars, except the 11x. I've used all of them handheld. I could not comfortably view handheld for longer than a few minutes. Also I could not see as much handhled, with any binocular. For handheld observing its not so much the weight as the powerx. I'd recommend sticking to 12x or less for handheld observing.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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Thanks you guys, all of your answers are very informative!
Ed Z, thanks also, as you are the binocular guru and I always take what you say to heart sir. 
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Markus,
We generally hear more input from the owners of the Canon Image Stabilizer binocualrs, 15x50 IS AW or 18x50 IS AW. If you can afford one it would be worth looking into.
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=107
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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Hi hallelujah !!! If I could afford those, I would be all over them. !!!...Unfortunately I cannot...so it looks like I won't be getting any of those kind right now!!!
I did look at the link you sent me and I would love to try those out one day in the future!!!
Thanks for the link sir.
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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You're welcome.
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
|
Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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Thanks all for the help...I'm going to give the 20x80 Oberwerk Standards a go !!! 
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
Thanks all for the help...I'm going to give the 20x80 Oberwerk Standards a go
Just make sure that you have a comfortable chair to sit in, so that you can get some additional support, this will help to steady your body as well as your arms, and make the viewing more enjoyable.
--------------------
Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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SeanOD
member
Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 12
Loc: South Africa
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Markus,
Having just gone through what you are going through, I can say that 15X is about the upper limit for handholding. The views through my 15X70 Oberwerk (which arrived on June 10) are twice as good even when rested on a conveniently sized wall. The moon, Crux, Carina's many sights, Scorpius, you name it, they are all better.
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Oberwerk 15X70
Pentax PCF 12X50
Nikon 7X50
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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I agree about the views with 15x power or more on some kind of a stand. I do have a p-mount that I WAS going to sell but decided to keep, so if I want to, I can use my P-mount for the 20x80's which I am getting. I will also be using the 20x80's hand-held at times when I don't feel like dragging the mount out, but like I stated, I can use my p-mount when needed !!!
Thanks for the help SeanOD.
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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> Just make sure that you have a comfortable chair to sit in, so that you can get some additional support, this will help to steady your body as well as your arms, and make the viewing more enjoyable. <
I have a recliner I can use when needed and also my parallelogram mount too....thanks for the advice sir .
Check out my p-mount I kept in case I needed it:
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 1639
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mt. High
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Quote:
Check out my p-mount I kept in case I nedded it:
You will be very thankful that you kept it. 
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Pentax 12x50mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 16x60mm PCF WP FMC/WP/FP
Pentax 20x60mm PCF WP II FMC/WP/FP
Orion 12x63mm Mini Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 15x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 16x80mm Giant FMC/JAPAN
Orion 20x70mm Little Giant II FMC/JAPAN
Orion 30x80mm MEGAView FMC/JAPAN
Barska 30x80mm X-Trail LW FC
Burgess Optical Series II 20x90mm FMC/WP/FP
Handel's Messiah**Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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>>> You will be very thankful that you kept it. <<<
You got that right darn, I forget how to quote ppl on here cuz I haven't been on in so long  LOL
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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Double Vision
member
Reged: 11/09/07
Posts: 17
Loc: D/FW Texas
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Markus,
You might also want to consider the Oberwerk 20x80LW over the Standard model. I just recently did a side-by-side comparison between the Ob 15x70 and the Ob 20x80LW, and was surprised that I actually preferred the views in the 20x80 better. I'm sure the Standard would provide similar results. According to the specs, the LW weighs less than the Standard, has the same sized EP, and has a slightly wider TFOV, and costs less. My personal impression was that the AFOV was pleasantly wide in the 20x80LW.
For steadier viewing, try one of the adjustable monopods from Oberwerk. They're very easy to carry around and set up. I've got a quick-release plate attached to the monopod head, which makes it very easy to switch from hand-held to a mounted configuration.
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/monopod.htm
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Garrett Optical 28x110HD Signature Series
Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe II
Oberwerk 20x80 Standard
Garrett Optical 15x70WP-CF
Garrett Optical 10x50 Gemini
Bushnell 8x40 fitted w/solar filters
Focal 7x50
Celestron NexStar 11 GPS
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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Hey Double....From what I have read, the 20x80 Standards are much better for EOF correction because they are an f/ 5.1 binocular where the 20x80 LW is a shorter FL system @ f/4.4.....I have no way of going back now....the 20x80 Standards have already been shipped to me !!!  Thanks for the tip though....I'm sure ED Z the binocular Guru will chime in on this. If I am incorrect, please correct my info !!!
Thanks for the monopod link!!!...
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12516
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I just commented on the 20x80 Standard in my recent Some of the Best Measured post.
Of the various 20x80s that I've used they all had between 3.2° and 3.7° Tfov. Of those the Obie Standard had the widest usable sharp fov. (85% of fov). Typical lightweights have only 60%-75% equally sharp fov.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Markus
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5385
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Thanks Ed. Youz the man sir.
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25X100 Skymasters
15X70 Skymasters
Home built Parallelogram Mount
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