CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hi there,
I am new to binoculars world and and found this great forum. I have already picked up a few good tips here. So much knowledge and gems. This is my first post. So, please forgive me if I have posted in a wrong section. I am more than happy to move it.
My wife and I have a Glacier National Park trip coming up. Immediately I thought we should bring binoculars because it will be a great opportunity for wildlife spotting, as well as the high elevation stargazing. I found a pair of no-name 15x60 porror prism with Bak4 for my wife. It needed some vertical comlimation when it first arrived. I followed the Oberwerk instruction and successfully colimated it(arguably but much better than before). It works great and she loves it.
Then I found myself a pair of Jason Empire Mercury 10x50 in the used market (similar to this one). The condition is good but it needs vertical colimation as well. This time, the Oberwerk method is not applicable (at least i can't see it) because the four screws mentioned are not visible on this Jason. My question is, how do you colimate (if possible at all) an older binoculars like this Jason?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
Edited by CFC (07/16/08 12:22 PM)
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2082
Loc: Washington, USA
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"Collimation" has two "l's."
Also, unless it uses eccentric-ring collimation, which, if it is older it does, it has a screw under the vinyl just in front of the backplate and on the inside near the lower axle bracket.
Welcome!
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Opppsss, pardon my poor spelling. You are right Bill. The factory glue covered it very well. I have to look real hard to find them. I did a little digging with the screwdriver. All four screws are visible now. Thanks.
Something I noticed in this Jason which i have also seen in another pair of binoculars. When i look at a vertical column at far distance, the subject looks fine through the left lens. However, the column is slightly tilted to the right when looked through right lens. For example, the building looks normal viewing thru left lens but it looks leaning to the right when viewing thru right lens. Is this something fixable by adjusting the setscrews?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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CFC the Jasons will use eccentric rings on the Objectives but before you do that check the lens barrel is not cross threaded into the binocular. Thats the tapered tube that has the objectives on one end and the other end screws into the binocular housing.
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hmmmm.....Simon, I do see a small gap in between the tube and the housing. I wonder if that means the tapered tube is cross threaded as you said. How do I correct it?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Mr Q
sage
Reged: 02/25/08
Posts: 325
Loc: N Central New Mexico
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Try unscrewing the barrel and then block off the openings with some soft cloth. Then, with a stiff brush, brush the threads clean on both mating threads. Try screwing the barrel on again while keeping a close eye on the thread alignment. Just make sure no thread particles enter both bino openings while apart. Mr Q
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What goes around, comes around, eventually.
Meade DS-10(10" newt)
10x50, 10x70 binos
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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As MR Q says try and remove the barrel. To get the threat started square, stand the binoculars on there oculars and wind the barrel until it runs to the end of the thread and keep going a few revolutions. This should allow the thread to start true.
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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I unscrewed and screwed back the barrel very carefully. However, the tilting problem in the right lens is still there.
As this point, i adjusted the right setscrew and was able to connect the left tip of a horizontal line (roof top) in the right barrel, to the right tip of the horizontal line in the left barrel. The line is not straight because of the problem mentioned above. The right half of the line is tilted downward.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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You have circular collimation error. One of the prisms has rotated in the binocular.
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Quote:
You have circular collimation error. One of the prisms has rotated in the binocular.
Is it something could be fixed by adjusting the setscrews?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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No. It would probably require rotating the entire prism shelf, or possibly rotating one prism.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Is there a website or book that explains how to correct the prism shelf? Or is it a factory-only repair?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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No but if you want I will talk you through it?
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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I really appreciate the helpfulness that this community offers. I am all ready, Simon.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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Ok here goes, remove the plastic cap over the hinge of the binocular where the tripod mount would go. inside the whole you see is a flat screw that needs undoing. With a scredriver about 2 mm blade width feel for the screw and undo it. The screw will not fall out of the hole. adjust the focus untill the focus arm pushes the oculars over there guides and withdraw the two arms and worm screw.
Block the good side of the binocular with a lint free rag and with a strap remove the ocular guide on the side that is out of collimation. Then remove the small cap screw that holds the prism cover on.
Remove the prism cover and carefully examine the prism and its seating. You are looking for a prism that has jumped out of its seat.
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thanks Simon. This will definitely take me longer as I'm still a newbie  . I need to read through your steps a few more times to completely understand them. Process begins.......
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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I will reply tomorrow as its 11PM here. Have fun!
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Hmmm.... Perhaps it is because it's an older binoculars. There is no flat screw inside the hole where the tripod mount goes (this binoc is not tripod adaptable but I know which hole you are talking about). So, i also undid the screw on the opposite side of the hinge (between the oculars/eyepieces). Still, i can't withdraw the two arms.....
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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Those arms will come off but might be tight. There is a dowl that locks the left arm into the focus worm they are fairly tight and so you may need to rock the arms to get them off.
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DJB
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1215
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Hi CFC,
I have a number of older, circa. 1960s, Jason binoculars. Simon's advice is important and correct.
Now, when I run into a prism (housing) dislodged, I have found an adhesive called GOOP to be invaluable in "cementing" the housing back in place ONCE the housing is properly aligned.
I used to get my GOOP at a jewelry outlet, but it is now available in hardware stores--True Value in my instance.
If, however, you do use GOOP, it is imperative to keep the optical channel open for 24 hours or so, to allow the adhesive to totally cure up and not coat any of the optical components in the process.
And, no, I have no vested interest in this product; I have used it on numerous projects, and it just cannot be beat in my opinion. However, be aware that it is rather permanent and can't be easily removed once set up. Good luck, and enjoy your outing.
Best regards,
Dave.
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Thanks guys. I'll keep trying and see if i can pull the arms out.
Dave, speaking of adhesive, after i removed the tapered barrel earlier, I saw something like that holding the prism in place. I think the manufacturer (or the previous owner) might have already applied this method to cement its position. Do you think that would make it harder for me to correct its position, if it is indeed dislodged?
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I saw something like that holding the prism in place. I think the manufacturer (or the previous owner) might have already applied this method to cement its position.
You will see that in practically every binocular.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Made a small progress. I finally was able to undo the screw where the tripod mount goes. When i looked inside the hole, there is indeed something looks like a flat-head screw (4 or 5mm wide). However, my screw driver can't connect to the screw's rail(is that what it's called?) although the rail is very obvious. When i used the screw driver to feel it, the screw head just feels like a flat piece of metal despite the obvious line marking. I hope I described it correctly. I was worried that my large screwdriver is too thick to fit, so I tried my thin jewelry screwdriver. Still, it won't fit. *****head scratching****
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 12332
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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If you've already removed the eyepieces at the eyepiece arm assemblies, you could try "UN" screwing the focuser dial. Some older binoculars have a focus dial that screws onto the barrel. When unscrewed it brings out with it the entire focusing shaft assembly.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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I have not removed the eyepieces yet. Ok, let me try that approach. Thanks EdZ.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Wes James
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 2345
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If you can't feel the screw slot, odds are either your screwdriver shank is not long enough- or the end of your blade is too thick.
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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I tried unscrew the focuser dial but Jason has this V-shape dial that does not go 360 degree. Both the tips of the V are blocked by the prism housing.
I could pull the center column slightly further away now but it just won't go all the way out.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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When you say focuser dial do you mean the dial in the centre of the binocular?
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Quote:
When you say focuser dial do you mean the dial in the centre of the binocular?
Right. The dial in the middle which, instead of the conventional round, it is V-shape resulted from Jason's proprietary FastFocus (InstaFocus for bushnell) I suppose.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Gordon Rayner
sage
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 468
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It seems that this Jason has"circular collimation error", also known as "lean". If one assumes perfect prisms, and one prism has not jumped out of its seat, then one or more of the prisms has rotated in its seat, in the plane of the entry and exit faces, probably because the brittle fixation glue is cracked .This is cured by rotating one prism with respect to its mate,in the plane of its entry and exit faces, not by rotating the prism shelf as a unit.
Compare the fits of this Jason with those in a WW II Bausch and Lomb U. S. N. Mk 28 7 x 50, of which there are many surviving. No glue. First class manufacture ensures long term durability, not brittle glue to fill the wide tolerance gaps.
Since you will likely use glue to fix this, choose one with resilience and integrity, not one which cures nearly instantaneously on the production line.
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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Ahh did you say insta focus? that explains a lot  
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Great advice from everybody. I'll definitely keep them in mind.
Struggling to get the eyepiece assembly out but I still have plenty of patience though.
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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Simon S
member
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 86
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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CFC is it the insta focus system of conventional?
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CFC
member
Reged: 07/02/08
Posts: 50
Loc: Austin, TX
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Quote:
CFC is it the insta focus system of conventional?
Simon, I have not tried the conventional Bushnell's InstaFocus system but i suspect it works very much the same as its predecessor - Jason's FastFocus system. It looks very similar to this:
InstaFocus
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Barska X-Trail 15x70, Jason Empire Mercury 10x50, china-brand 15x60
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