jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Hi all, I was just getting ready to buy the Celestron skymaster 25-125x80 Zoom Binocular at Walmart for $139, when I decided to look through this forum to see if anyone had a review on this bino, but what I'm finding out is zoom bions are bad. Can someone please explain why. To me zoom seems like a great idea.
Thanks.
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3211
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Great idea indeed, but generally very poor optical quality.
Regular fixed-power binoculars are already an optical compromise: two very fast achromatic 'telescopes', two sets of prisms, two eyepieces, and all this often for a really low price (like your example shows). Think about what you'd spend on a single telescope objective or diagonal or eyepiece.
With zoom binoculars, the additional optical compromises to make it a zoom really take a heavy toll on the performance.
Let's be realistic, $139 is less than you'd espect to spend on a single good zoom eyepiece for a telescope.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1589
Loc: Lisle NY
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Just my advice,
Stay away from zoom binoculars by all means. There were only two or so "good" one manufactured a number of years ago!
Best regards,
Dave.
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charen
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: New Zealand
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Yes generally speaking avoid zooms. They have multiple disadvantages including:
• a narrow field of view.
• more moving internal parts that go wrong
• major problems in getting them and keeping them collimated.
• [usually] poor optical and build qualities.
• a dimmer image compared to fixed binos of the same size
• if they go wrong they are not worth fixing and
• the 25x-125x magnification on those Celestrons is totally misleading - you cannot even get close to a 125x magnification with binoculars like these.
Avoid them at all costs.
Buy a 'fixed' bino from a known manufacture like Nikon, Pentax, Oberwerk etc. or if you do want ‘higher powers’ a quality spotting scope on a tripod would be better choice.
--------------------
35 binos.
80mm Cat.
WO66ED
SV NH 80mm / EQ3
Meade 8in.LX90
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5668
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Check one of our supporters "big binoculars. com" web site where Kevin is having a close out sell on zoom binoculars with a disclaimer on why zooms are not good.
edj
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n w arkansas
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3455
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In a world of where "If it sounds too good to be true- it probably is", zoom binoculars live near the top of this heap. That money would be much more wisely put towards a pair of Nikon Action EX Extreme's or something similar at your local Wal Mart. (Note: Not the Nikon Actions)
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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They are junk $69 80mm binoculars with junk zoom eypieces. BTW my 8-24mm Pentax XL zoom eyepiece sells for $439 so could imagine the quality of the zoom eyepieces in the binocular.
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Thanks to all for your reply. I'm glad I checked in here first before wasting my money. Would this one be a better buy http://www.celestron.com/c2/product.php?CatID=28&ProdID=187
Thanks again.
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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jog--
The binos that you link to, Celestron 15x70 Skymasters, have been discussed many times on this forum. I think the consensus is that these can be a good deal, but the quality control is so loose that you may have to send them back multiple times before getting an acceptable pair. Keep in mind that if you have to ship them back a few times, the savings you have made by purchasing the cheaper model will be consumed by shipping costs. Also, the price on the link that you provided seems especially high. I think $70 is a price more in line with what folks are paying for these. My sister got a pair here. They are currently $67.95 at this site. I don't have any affiliation with Adorama, but have purchased from them a handful of times with complete satisfaction.
The quality control from importers like Oberwerk or Garrett Optical is much better and I think you will find that those vendors are highly recommended on this forum. As Wes suggested, the Nikon Action Extreme line is another that is rated as a good value in binoculars. Lots of choices to be sure, but there are some good ones. I think you are doing well to avoid the zooms.
--Tad
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Orion XT8i, Vixen ED80Sf, Oberwerk BT-80/45
20x80 Oberwerk Std., 12x50 Nikon AE,
42mm Celestron Regal LX (8x & 10x), 8x40 Pentax PCF WP
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Thanks Tad S for the info. The problem with me is I have only $170 to spend on a binocular,and I'm trying to get as big a lens as possible for the money so looking at these 70mm and 80mm binos at those prices seems like a good deal to me, but I didn't know that there was so much more to buying a bino. I looked at Adorama web site and saw this http://www.adorama.com/BA3080X.html and I looked at Oberwerk site and saw this http://www.bigbinoculars.com/1570.htm both of which are in my price range, which one would you get?
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StarStuff1
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 979
Loc: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
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Which one you get should depend on what your observing goals are. The 15X70s can be hand held for a short while. Will work much better mounted. 30X80s will have to be mounted to use. Smaller field of view than the 15X70s but a darker background and some more details on Luna and Jupiter. Saturn's ring, altho small will be visible.
Actually I would recommend starting with a wide field 7X35 or 8X40 or 8X42. These can be easily hand held and can be useful as a sports glass and birding as well. Later, as your experience grows and your observing goals get narrowed, consider getting some large binocs.
As others here have mentioned, stay away from zoom binoculars. Also, fixed focus (unfocused) binoculars are a no-no.
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Tools that make objects very far away appear much closer than they actually are.
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Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
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Quote:
Great idea indeed, but generally very poor optical quality.
Not always the case. I tried a pair of Celestron Pro Zooms about a year ago and the optical quality was very good. The only drawback to these particular binocs was that the FOV was quite narrow.
The general consensus to zoom binoculars is that the mechanism used to make them ZOOM eventually fails.
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Markus
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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WOW!! I never expected such quick replies. I just realize that in my haste I posted the wrong link in my last reply to one of the binos I was looking at, here is the other one http://www.adorama.com/CN2080N.html I think I might get this one instead of the 15X70. Anyway, hey StarStuff1 thanks man, I have had some experience with 7X50 and 15X50 and also I have a 10X30 which I got for $14 at Walmart I was able to see some of the brighter star clusters with this bino. I like the 15X because I could see more star clusters and some of the brighter nebula and galaxies. I think I might be ready for the 70mm or 80mm. I already have my sturdy tripod ready and waiting. even then I think it would be wise to wait to hear what you guys think before I make a move.
Thanks.
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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Quote:
Thanks Tad S for the info. The problem with me is I have only $170 to spend on a binocular,and I'm trying to get as big a lens as possible for the money so looking at these 70mm and 80mm binos at those prices seems like a good deal to me, but I didn't know that there was so much more to buying a bino. I looked at Adorama web site and saw this http://www.adorama.com/BA3080X.html and I looked at Oberwerk site and saw this http://www.bigbinoculars.com/1570.htm both of which are in my price range, which one would you get?
Hi log--
Others on this list will probably chime in with their direct experience with the 30x80s that you list. I have never used them. The Oberwerk 15x70s that you list or these by Garrett would be great all around astro binoculars. In the end, the size that you pick should be determined by the type of viewing that you want to do. Here are a few things to keep in mind comparing these two binoculars that you mention:
Model----------Barskas----Obie/Garrett
Magnifcation---30x--------15x
Eye Relief-----10mm-------18mm (usable)
TrueFoV-------2.1*---------4.5*
ExitPupil-------2.67mm-----4.67mm
Coatings------FC-----------FMC
Weight--------~4lbs--------~3lbs
15x70 is a good middle size for open clusters and cruising the Milky Way. At 15x you will see a fair amount of detail though 30x will allow much more. The 30x models would allow you to see deeper (fainter stars) but the exit pupil will be almost half as the size. The brightness of the image will be determined by a combination of factors including the exit pupil and the coatings. The eye relief is something to consider if you wear glasses, and it can contribute to the overall comfort of using the instrument. Both weight and magnification affect hand-holdability. For the binoculars above, both will likely need to be mounted, though you may be able to use the 15x'ers for short times without. You wont be throwing either of these in your pocket, but the 15x models will probably be easier to handle.
I think that you would do well to look through the "Best of" guides on this forum before making a decision. There are lots of good binos in your price range. You are already getting some varying recommendations. Just think about what fits with your style, budget, and what you want to do. Have fun,
--Tad
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Orion XT8i, Vixen ED80Sf, Oberwerk BT-80/45
20x80 Oberwerk Std., 12x50 Nikon AE,
42mm Celestron Regal LX (8x & 10x), 8x40 Pentax PCF WP
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
what I'm finding out is zoom bions are bad. Can someone please explain why. To me zoom seems like a great idea.
Thanks.
Here's a link:
Zoom Binocular Cautions!
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Check one of our supporters "big binoculars. com" web site where Kevin is having a close out sell on zoom binoculars with a disclaimer on why zooms are not good.
edj
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/123670.htm
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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Hey jog-- I just sent you a PM. In case you are not familiar with how to see it, just click on the flashing envelope by your log in name near the top of the page. --Tad
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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If Leica built a pair of binoculars with their new spotting scope zoom eyepiece VARIO 25-50x WW ASPH that has 60-80° AFOV it would be great but I bet a pair cost about the same as my pair of 13mm Ethos eyepieces.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: Washington, USA
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Don't.
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
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Post deleted by Markus
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Markus
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3455
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Quote:
I'm not saying that a $69.00 pair of 80mm binoculars will be of high quality, but some people have lucked out and got a good pair.
But I'm bettin' that you won't get a pair of $69.00 ZOOM binoculars with which you'll luck out and get a good pair!
Wes
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Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
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Quote:
But I'm bettin' that you won't get a pair of $69.00 ZOOM binoculars with which you'll luck out and get a good pair!
Wes
I wasn't referring to ZOOMS Wes !! And I also just deleted my post just before you replied !! 
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Markus
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3455
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Understand that, Markus- but that IS what this thread is about- zoom binoculars- and if we get back to the original question, the point remains- that if it's an iffy proposition to get a good pair of binoculars for $69, it's an even if'ier propostion to think of getting a good inexpensive zoom binocular! No offense meant, Markus-
Wes
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ummagumma
newbie
Reged: 08/13/08
Posts: 1
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Hello all,
I am new to this sight and this is my first post.
I was too considering buying Skymaster 25-125 80, but cannot find any hands on reviews anywhere.
I know you all know your stuff, far be it for me to question anyone's knowledge or experiences, but has anyone actually put a pair of these up to their eyes and actually tried them out?
Just looking for some hands on info.
If anyone has, please post soon.
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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Someone here will buy a pair and after they say how bad they are we will say we told you so. 
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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rookie
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/14/06
Posts: 878
Loc: St. Petersburg, FL
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There is a link about Zoom Binoculars on the "Best of Binoculars" HERE
It explains the difficulties of these binoculars maintaining proper focus at different ranges of magnification.
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SV
Scope: Celestron CPC8
Binoculars: Garrett GT80~45, Fujinon 16x70, Regals 10x42, Ultima 9x63, Nikon AE 8x40
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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Collimation is the #1 problem with the 20x80 version so add 25-125x junk zoom eyepieces it will just magnify the problem.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Thanks to all of you for your advise. I think I'll just get the 15X70 from Oberwerk. Thanks again.
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5668
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Quote:
If Leica built a pair of binoculars with their new spotting scope zoom eyepiece VARIO 25-50x WW ASPH that has 60-80° AFOV it would be great but I bet a pair cost about the same as my pair of 13mm Ethos eyepieces.
I have the leica zoom that I use in my grab and go TELESCOPE, and a TV 6-3 zoom that I use on those rare occasions when very high power is indicated;
but each cost around $400 and have a small FOV-quality zooms are fun with scopes, but the technology has not yet made it to binocular.
Vixen did/does have their 125mm model with zooms, but it is a $4000 bino.
edj
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n w arkansas
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5668
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I did see a pair of the vixen 125mm zooms at a star party, but did not like them due to their very small FOV, which I think was 1.2 to 0.8 degrees
edj
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n w arkansas
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Quote:
If Leica built a pair of binoculars with their new spotting scope zoom eyepiece VARIO 25-50x WW ASPH that has 60-80° AFOV it would be great but I bet a pair cost about the same as my pair of 13mm Ethos eyepieces.
I have the leica zoom that I use in my grab and go TELESCOPE, and a TV 6-3 zoom that I use on those rare occasions when very high power is indicated;
but each cost around $400 and have a small FOV-quality zooms are fun with scopes, but the technology has not yet made it to binocular.
Vixen did/does have their 125mm model with zooms, but it is a $4000 bino.
edj
The VARIO 25-50x WW ASPH must be in the 10-20mm range so they would work much better than a 3-6mm zoom on binoculars. I can't see using 3-6mm zooms on anything other than telescopes and not in a binoviewer either. The 13mm Ethos are the shortest FL pair of eypieces I use in my binoviewer.
Joe
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
Hello all,
I am new to this sight and this is my first post.
I was too considering buying Skymaster 25-125 80, but cannot find any hands on reviews anywhere.
I know you all know your stuff, far be it for me to question anyone's knowledge or experiences, but has anyone actually put a pair of these up to their eyes and actually tried them out?
Just looking for some hands on info.
If anyone has, please post soon.
25-125 is all the reviews you need.
Bill
PS welcome
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Wait a minute!! I might have jump the "bino" to early on the 15X70, here is a 20X80 I found on the opticsplanet site http://www.opticsplanet.net/zhumell-binoculars-2080a.html I think might be it. it's in my price range. Well?
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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This is another binocular that has recently received much discussion here. It has been on sale, and while several people have been happy with them, there appears to be a significantly high return rate for them.
See these recent threads:
Zhumell 20x80 - Defective
Zhumell 20x80 Binoculars
Zhumell 20x80 on sale again
Caveat emptor
If you are interested in 20x80, Garrett has these on sale for just inside your price range. It may be similar but comes with good quality control.
--Tad
--------------------
Orion XT8i, Vixen ED80Sf, Oberwerk BT-80/45
20x80 Oberwerk Std., 12x50 Nikon AE,
42mm Celestron Regal LX (8x & 10x), 8x40 Pentax PCF WP
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Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
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Steer clear of those Zhumells !!! If you want a 20x80 try Oberwerk or Garrett Optical !!!
Another note: 20x80's are very heavy. I myself let my eyes do the deciding and have had both a 20x80 and a 25x100 binocular and if you don't mind using a mount all the time this will be fine. If you don't want to have to use a mount all the time then get something SMALLER !!!
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Markus
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12901
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< but has anyone actually put a pair of these up to their eyes and actually tried them out? >
Seven or eight years ago , I actually " bought " brand new Sunagar megazoom 20 - 120x 70 binoculars , for £250 from Argos , specifically to see if there was ANYTHING good I could find about them .
To say I couldn't would be a gross understatement .
They were TERRIBLE !
So as 99.9% of my brain had anticipated , I returned them for a full refund within the 28 day " no questions asked " return terms of purchase -- which , it must be said , is one good thing about buying from such an outlet .
Actually , I returned within 28 HOURS !
Even at the lowest magnification of 20x ( or whatever it was in reality ) the images were dark and murky , and the field of view was extruciatingly narrow , at a stated 1.7 degree TFOV ( could have been even less in reality ) .
At anything above around 40x magnification , it seemed impossible to see anything that could be considered to be IN FOCUS , but I could just about make out enough to see TWO Blackpool towers , side by side , as if they were standing about 100 metres apart , with one a little above the other in the horizontal plane .
Blackpool tower stands around 500 feet , and I was viewing it from a distance of around 20 miles .
This led me to check collimation against a telegraph pole standing in a field about 100 metres away , and sure enough , at 20x magnification , there appeared to be TWO poles , standing approximately two pole diameters apart from each other !
In summary , I repeat for emphasis --
-- DO NOT BUY ANY OF THESE GIANT ZOOM BINOCULARS !
Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4069
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Another note: 20x80's are very heavy.
Some 20x80's are 3.6 lbs and some are 7 lbs or more like my Oberwerk 20x80 Deluxe.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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MAN!! so many binoculars and only a hand full are of good quality. ok staying away from Zhumell. So I guess I'll get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm and these binos will be mounted on my sturdy tripod.
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stormbird
journeyman
Reged: 04/28/04
Posts: 27
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imho the only zoom binoculars worth having are the discontinued Nikon 8-16x40. They are very sharp, but with the narrow field of view others have mentioned (5 degrees). Also, they are still a good amount of $ for used examples.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
MAN!! so many binoculars and only a hand full are of good quality. ok staying away from Zhumell. So I guess I'll get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm and these binos will be mounted on my sturdy tripod.
Interesting that you selected that GO LW as an alternative to the Zhumell. Differences might be the coatings and these do vary in the amount of plastics used in construction (for instance the Anttler has a plastic eyepiece bridge), so the weights might vary. I think they are all built on the same housing. I wrote about this before in a previous thread. I've seen several different brands that all look identical. The GO LW 20x80 is built on a similar housing to the Anttler Optic 20x80, both models that appear identical to the Zhumell 20x80 and several other light weight 20x80s. These are all similar to the Barska X-trail 20x80.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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Quote:
Quote:
MAN!! so many binoculars and only a hand full are of good quality. ok staying away from Zhumell. So I guess I'll get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm and these binos will be mounted on my sturdy tripod.
Interesting that you selected that GO LW as an alternative to the Zhumell. Differences might be the coatings and these do vary in the amount of plastics used in construction (for instance the Anttler has a plastic eyepiece bridge), so the weights might vary. I think they are all built on the same housing. I wrote about this before in a previous thread. I've seen several different brands that all look identical. The GO LW 20x80 is built on a similar housing to the Anttler Optic 20x80, both models that appear identical to the Zhumell 20x80 and several other light weight 20x80s. These are all similar to the Barska X-trail 20x80.
edz
Hi EdZ--
Perhaps I am misinterpreting your post. I hope I am not putting words into the OP's mouth, but to me it seems like a logical progression to pick the Garrett over the Zhumell. If jog were interested in the Zhumell, but read the various threads about receipt of misaligned units, he(she?) may have opted for the Garrett based on the fact that they check the merchandise before they ship it out, reducing the possibility of getting a miscollimated pair. Also, as you mentioned, the coatings may be better (Garrett are FMC; not sure about the Zhumells), and hardware may be a little different, affecting the fit and finish. So, while the optical configuration and housing may be the same, I would think that the likelihood of getting a good pair of binoculars is better going with a vendor with a good record of QC. Or, am I totally missing the point you were trying to make?
--Tad
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Ok here is my situation, before I started looking into binoculars I was planing on getting the Orion shorttube 80-t refractor for a grab and go scope, but then I thought that a big bino might be a better idea, but now I'm thinking twice about getting a big bino. all the one`s that I'm looking at within my price range according to all your feed back have problems. I may be wrong or I may be missing the point. I don't know anything about binoculars so I'm depending on you guys. So is it ok to go ahead and get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm or no? Or let me ask, which big bino would you get within a $170 budget?
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: Washington, USA
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There are many GREAT binos on the market. It's just that LIST members keep fishing on the bottom.
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Or let me ask, which big bino would you get within a $170 budget?
http://www.taaffephoto.com/item_detail.php?item_id=110168
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2445151/page/7/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1  
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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I would certainly consider the 20x60 Pentax a higher quality instrument.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Parker Nite Fly
super member
Reged: 02/05/06
Posts: 102
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Quote:
Ok here is my situation, before I started looking into binoculars I was planing on getting the Orion shorttube 80-t refractor for a grab and go scope, but then I thought that a big bino might be a better idea, but now I'm thinking twice about getting a big bino. all the one`s that I'm looking at within my price range according to all your feed back have problems. I may be wrong or I may be missing the point. I don't know anything about binoculars so I'm depending on you guys. So is it ok to go ahead and get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm or no? Or let me ask, which big bino would you get within a $170 budget?
Jog,
We are in the same boat. I certainly understand your feeling frustrated. I have a set of Oberwerk 11x56 and dearly love them. They were $99. I may be a bottom feeder but I didn't have to refinance the house to get them.
I am thinking I would like to find something with more light gathering ability and more magnification to come closer to the 26x view I get through my scope with a 25mm ep but with both eyes open. The Oberwerk 20x80 standards got pretty good reviews on CN and I think they would come close to accomplishing what I am after, but they are a little above both our price ranges. Feeling frustrated myself I guess I'll keep saving for a while.
Question - the Pentax recommendation would have an exit pupil of 3mm isn't that pretty small?
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Hardin DSH-8
Orion SpaceProbe 130ST
11x56 Oberwerk
7x35 Jason (don't laugh - you'll hurt its feelings)
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Question - the Pentax recommendation would have an exit pupil of 3mm isn't that pretty small?
Nope!
Two of MY favorite binoculars are 30x80mm, with an E.P. of 2.66mm. They work just fine. Exit pupil isn't the only thing to take into consideration.
My Barska 30x80mm has smaller prisms than my Orion 30x80, and it also has optical coatings that are not as good as the Orion, so the views are not as bright as the Orion MEGAView. However, that doesn't stop me from enjoying the Barska X-Trail throughout the year.
I got what was affordable at the time. The Barska was only $120. A birthday gift from the wife.
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Tad S.
super member
Reged: 08/28/06
Posts: 151
Loc: SW Virginia
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Quote:
Ok here is my situation, before I started looking into binoculars I was planing on getting the Orion shorttube 80-t refractor for a grab and go scope, but then I thought that a big bino might be a better idea, but now I'm thinking twice about getting a big bino.
Hi jog--
It looks like the simple advice you sought from this forum has turned out to be more than you bargained for.
Comparing big binos with a short tube refractor, each has its own advantages. Which is better is a matter of your own preferences. With the refractor, you get the possibility of changing magnification, and even some limited photography. I would not call the ST80-T the optimum lunar or planetary tool, but you will probably be able to see more with it than you could with binos that you might be considering. The binoculars will offer a wider field of view, and that WOW factor and increased perception that you get from using two eyes. Depending on circumstances, you might be able to use the binos for short (probably very short) periods of time without a mount. For instance, you might just want to do a quick survey to see the sky conditions or look for something quickly. Speaking of quickly, the binos will generally be quicker to set up and use.
Quote:
So is it ok to go ahead and get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm or no? Or let me ask, which big bino would you get within a $170 budget?
For a lightweight, inexpensive 20x80, I think your suggestion of the 20x80 LW would be one that you would not regret. But just for contrast, a 15x70 would give you a wider field, the possibility for short hand-held sessions, and even greater portability. If it will always be used on a tripod, I think I would go for the 20x model.
In the 20x80 size, most of the choices in your price range are of Chinese origin. They have decent optics but QC can be spotty. Lens coatings vary from brand to brand; I would look for something with Fully Multi-Coated optics. These models sold through vendors like Oberwerk or Garrett get screened better for QC and both of these vendors have excellent customer service. For a little more money, you can find more rugged models that are WP.
If you want something a little more robust and overall higher quality, you might consider something in the Nikon Action Extreme or Pentax PCF WP series. The trade off in your price range is that they will be a bit smaller. You wont find 20x80, but Pentax has a 20x60 and a 16x60 that are reported to be quite sharp (although the FOV is particularly narrow in these twomodels). The Nikon AEx come in sizes up to 16x50. I have not heard a review of the largest size, but the others tend to score well among users.
The short tube refractor would be a little over your budget and lack the simplicity and beauty of two-eyed views, though it would allow you to see more fine detail.
Well, there you go, probably more opinion than you cared for.
--Tad
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 2237
Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote:
I may be a bottom feeder but I didn't have to refinance the house to get them.
DEAR Bottom Feeder:
Ask around, you’ll find my bark worse than my bite . . . besides, Kenny likes me . . . but then, he’s never had good taste, anyway.
Having been in optics since childhood and in it professionally all my adult life, I just speak candidly about the field—often too candidly!
But, when a guy pulls up at my store, gets out of his new F-350 (same gas mileage as the space shuttle), shows off his new custom 7mm magnum and talks about the “Elk Retreat” he is going to in Jackson Hole (the last part of the trip by plane) I have a hard time squeezing out a tear when he bemoans not being able to afford more than $69.00 for a bino.
I am NOT rich—Several times in the last few weeks I have had to choose between milk and gas and I Just had to sell my genesis for 1/3 of what it’s worth. Yet, my misfortune does not change the facts of the matter one iota! Do I always use the best? No! Do I always BUY the best? No! Likewise, I do not pat myself on the back (as many have done) bragging because I can’t afford a better instrument. I’ve been on the planet long enough to know that as a general rule we buy what we REALLY want! And, as my F-350 customer points out, often it’s not optics.
Please, buy what you want; be happy! But, please don’t belittle those who look a little further up the food chain than you. Some don’t see the difference; true. They just want bragging rights and the chance to spend lots of money. But some have a need to see the difference. . . and can. I usually can—BUT CHOOSE NOT TO—to save money! But, I don’t poo poo the rest because I CHOOSE not to see the difference.
There is room in the boat for all. Today’s novice is tomorrow’s experienced observer.
As that great American philosopher . . . Cheryl Crow . . . has stated:
“It’s not having what you want, but wanting what you have.”
Cheers,
Bill
--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Founding Editor, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
20-year vet. of Captain's Nautical Supplies, Optics Dept. Mgr.
Optics Machanic, WG11-3306, Ft. Lewis, Tacoma,WA
Yata, Yata, Yata . . .
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
As that great American philosopher . . . Cheryl Crow . . . has stated:
“It’s not having what you want, but wanting what you have.”
Cheers,
Bill
Sheryl Crow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheryl_Crow
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Thanks to all again for such great info. I have made up my mind, I'm going to get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm if it doesn't work out I can always return it.
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Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
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Bill C: you couldn't have said things any better!!!
hallelujah is right too !!!
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Markus
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FredEDawes
member
Reged: 07/30/07
Posts: 15
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Hello Jog, welcome to the forums!
Remember that the Garrett 20x80 LW binoculars will be unusable without a good tripod. They will be too large and heavy to handhold for extended periods, so, as you can see in the picture, they include a crossbar to allow one to easily mount them on a tripod head. If your budget is limited strictly to $170 and you buy only the binoculars, you'll find that you have a set of binoculars that you can't hold steady long enough to get a look at most things in the sky!
I recommend either saving up enough to buy both the large binoculars of your choice and a tripod, or instead purchasing only a handholdable pair of binoculars with your $170 budget. Lastly, make sure that, if at all possible, you've already done a bit of binocular or other astronomy so that you know what your interests and needs are. Best of luck in astronomy and here on the CN forums!
--Fred
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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Quote:
Thanks to all again for such great info. I have made up my mind, I'm going to get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm[/url] if it doesn't work out I can always return it.
Did you also look at the tripod/head combinations?
http://www.garrettoptical.com/product-p/or-paragonhdf2.htm
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Quote:
Hello Jog, welcome to the forums!
Remember that the Garrett 20x80 LW binoculars will be unusable without a good tripod. They will be too large and heavy to handhold for extended periods, so, as you can see in the picture, they include a crossbar to allow one to easily mount them on a tripod head. If your budget is limited strictly to $170 and you buy only the binoculars, you'll find that you have a set of binoculars that you can't hold steady long enough to get a look at most things in the sky!
I recommend either saving up enough to buy both the large binoculars of your choice and a tripod, or instead purchasing only a handholdable pair of binoculars with your $170 budget. Lastly, make sure that, if at all possible, you've already done a bit of binocular or other astronomy so that you know what your interests and needs are. Best of luck in astronomy and here on the CN forums!
--Fred
Thanks for the warningb but I do have a sturdy tripod that's capable of supporting up to 25lbs so I have no problem there.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2155
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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jog/aa5te,
So, let us know which one you will decide to buy on your $170 budget. 
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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jog
member
Reged: 10/26/06
Posts: 90
Loc: nj
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Quote:
jog/aa5te,
So, let us know which one you will decide to buy on your $170 budget.
I'm going to get this one http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-20x80-Giant-Astronomy-Binocular-p/g2080lw.htm according to there web site and I quote...
Every Garrett Optical binocular must pass a rigorous 14-point inspection that insures a high degree of both optical and mechanical performance, including accurate collimation. Any necessary adjustments are performed by a highly experienced technician on a U.S. Navy Mark V Collimator.
I hope I won't be disappointed.
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