RHoward42
member
Reged: 01/13/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
|
|
An observation:
As a Fuji 10x50 FMT-SX owner, i think i know what a good view looks like through a pair of binoculars. I was sure there was no better and often wondered how those three big European manufacturers could justify such high prices for their nocs. Within the last few days, I have done some side by side comparisons of my fujis versus a friend's Swaro 10x50 SLC. I must say that i now understand the high price. In my view, (i hate to say it), the Swaro beats my Fujis in every way. The view is just absolutely wonderful. The resolution and color seem to be superior. My biggest surprise is that they seem to be as bright or brighter than my fujis in low light conditions. I can see every point of light with the Swaros that i can with my Fujis in the night sky. Also, i now am convinced that the Fujis have a slightly yellowing color. They are compact (relatively speaking), and fit/finish is unbelievable. I love the smooth focus with integrated locking diopter. At $1800, they should be really good, and i must say WOW, they are. I think i have the optics bug now and will start saving my money.
Rick Howard
--------------------
Richard Howard
12x50 Bushnell Legend Roof
10x50 Fujinon FMTR-SX
10x50 Swarovski SLC NEU
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Interesting comments and observation. For the past week I've been comparing a Leica Ultravid 10x42 to the views of my Fujinon 10x50, and I'm leaning toward the opposite conclusion you reached.
The 10x42 Ultravid is indeed a fine binocular, but it certainly has no better resolution than the Fujinon, does not bring stars to finer points. The Ultravid has a narrower field of view. Even with the wider fov, the Fujinon is significantly sharper in the outer edges of the field of view. The beam transfer in the Fujinon is better than the Ultravid. The central 40% of the Fujinon provides a 100% beam, whereas only the central 5% of the Ultravid provides a 100% beam. The Ultravid has far more curvature, to the point that it has only about a 70% usable field of view. The Ultravid shows the same amount of aberration in the view at 70% that the Fujinon shows at 95%. The Ultravid shows the same amount of aberration at 60% that the Fujinon shows at 80%. Both have fine contrast and the Fujinon certainly weighs more, but having a 6.5° field of view that is without significant aberration, IMO, is far more useful than a 6.2° binocular that has only 4.5° sharp. I don't know how much the Leica 10x42 Ultravid is worth, but maybe that's a good thing, I'm not comparing the price.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
RHoward42
member
Reged: 01/13/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
|
|
Professor Edz,
In no way do i have the credentials to write an informative review of binoculas. All i can say is that to my layman eyes, the swaros seem brighter, resolve finer detail (at distance), lack the yellowing color i notice through my Fujis, and just offer a more pleasing view. Again, i defer to your expertise. I still love my Fujis and will not part with them.
Rick Howard
--------------------
Richard Howard
12x50 Bushnell Legend Roof
10x50 Fujinon FMTR-SX
10x50 Swarovski SLC NEU
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Perhaps all this tells us is that the Swaro and the Leica are very different.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
RHoward42
member
Reged: 01/13/08
Posts: 52
Loc: Jacksonville, Florida
|
|
Or i need to have my eyes checked
--------------------
Richard Howard
12x50 Bushnell Legend Roof
10x50 Fujinon FMTR-SX
10x50 Swarovski SLC NEU
|
Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3454
|
|
I think when you directly compare/A-B comparisons, you kind of knock out the issue of having to have your eyes checked! Would now be interesting to see a comparison of the Swar's vs. the Leica's. Then, of course, one would have to throw in something like the Zeiss Victory FL's! Would be interesting to have a shoot-out to find the ultimate 10x astro bino! Whoops- can't forget the Nikon 10x70 Astrolux!
--------------------
Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
|
KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12895
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
According to the method EdZ uses to categorise binocular performance , I think I can safely predict that the Zeiss Victory FL will NOT perform much , if any better than the Leica Ultravid .
The Zeiss FL has many great qualities as an all - round daytime instrument , but aberration - free outer regions of the field of view is not amongst them .
Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
|
ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
|
|
Richard,
Congratulations on the new Swarovski. Your findings don't surprise me. My 10x50 Fujinon is excellent for astronomy, with a crazy wide flat field and high transmission. But, its daytime view does not particularly impress me, not like its 7x50 sibling, or a 8x42 Leica Trinovid, does. It just doesn't quite have the same eye-slicing sharpness, or the deep clear color saturation, and it's rather sensitive to bright light outside the field of view.
The high end roofs are made with birding and hunting in poor light in mind. The military style 7x50 bino, not just Fujinon, is kind of special in this way. It was put here to torture us. The daytime view is exquisite. Yet the field is narrow, it could use a little more magnification, and nobody wants to deal with such a monster. Every so often, I just pick mine up and look at a tree or something, gasp, and put it back down.
Ron
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Quote:
Perhaps all this tells us is that the Swaro and the Leica are very different.
edz
Remember this old ranking system??
Swarovski SLC New 10x50 WB "tied" for first place with the Fujinon 10x50 FMTR-SX,(I pointed this out several months ago) with Leica-Trinovid 10x50 BN coming in at #3 position.
http://www.optyczne.pl/ranking_optyczne_pl-ranking_lornetek-10x50.html
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (08/22/08 04:05 PM)
|
Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3454
|
|
Man,.. wish I could read that!
Wes
|
medinabrit
professor emeritus
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 648
Loc: medina ohio USA.
|
|
I have the 8x30 & 15x56 Swaros .Out of over 20 Binos i have the 15X56 are my favs . When out at the various wildlife areas we visit whenever someone gets to look through the 30,s they always comment on how very good they are .
I was 70 yrs old last thursday so my eyes probably are not perfect but i do love those Swaro bins.
Have to admit though that since i got the Miyauchis they dont get used quite as much .
I do like high power.
BUT the 15x50 slc would be the last one i would ever part with.
Brian.
|
KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12895
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
Belated birthday greetings , Brian !
You didn't look a day over 68 last time I saw you , and I now know you must have been 69 at the time :-)
I still regret not buying those 15 x 56 Swarovskis for £595 when I had the opportunity to do so , but would only have been able to have afforded to do so if I charged £100 per person per night for guests to stay at our caravan ! :-)
Hope to see you and Karin again sometime in the not too distant future .
Take care
Your friend
Kenny
--------------------
If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Quote:
Man,.. wish I could read that!
Wes
Last year our friend Pepin the Short mentioned that someone he knew was working on a Polish to English translation. I asked him about the translation recently, but he did not reply. 
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Quote:
I was 70 yrs old last thursday so my eyes probably are not perfect but i do love those Swaro bins.
I do like high power.
Brian.
Brian,
A belated Happy Birthday.
I like high power also! 
I have handled the Swarovski 15x56mm MANY times, in the sporting good stores, for some unknown reason my wife just looks the other way. I don't understand why!
http://www.opticsplanet.net/swarovski-15x56-forest-green-binoculars.html
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
Edited by hallelujah (08/22/08 07:53 PM)
|
charen
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 1083
Loc: New Zealand
|
|
Yes hi end binos do have certain ‘mystique‘ but do they justify the very hi prices ?
I was looking for a 'top end' 10x bino some months ago.
I viewed through the new Swarovski 10x50 SLC's and some German Minox BD 10x50 BR EDs. [Minox was originally a subsidiary of Leica.]
The Swarovski’s certainly were impressive with its color and resolution during day time testing. The image was warm.
The Minox’s displayed slightly more curvature of field and edge aberrations however the image was slightly brighter - this of course in part due to the 8mm difference.
The Minox’s are heavier at 1490 mgs but I find them relaxing to hand hold.
The eye relief is 19mm. The image was more neutral.
I brought the Minox's in the end as they were about a third less then the Swarovskis.
Ultimately the Swarovski’s were a superior binocular when it came to optical and build qualities.
However the 10x58 ED Minox's do make excellent astro binos. Stars are ultra sharp and CA is basically non existent. The Afov is 62 degrees.
They can be brought in the US for just over a US$1000. They also produce a 15x58 ED version at slightly higher price.
I am surprised there are basically no reviews on the ED 58mm Minox’s. They are somewhat of a ‘sleeper’ binocular.
Are they worth it ? – yes. However this ‘hobby’ can certainly become expensive. 
http://www.brayimaging.co.uk/Astro/binoculars.html#Minox
--------------------
35 binos.
80mm Cat.
WO66ED
SV NH 80mm / EQ3
Meade 8in.LX90
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.
Edited by charen (08/23/08 12:37 AM)
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Quote:
I am surprised there are basically no reviews on the ED 58mm Minox’s. They are somewhat of a ‘sleeper’ binocular.
Quote:
Sleeping Beauty. I was tempted to buy the Minox BD 15x58 BR ED on astromart, a number of months ago, but had difficulty letting go of the money. At that time it was only $400.
The individual selling it also used his for astronomy.
Look forward to your review. 
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
|
scopedude
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/26/06
Posts: 831
Loc: 6 deg. South
|
|
Now I wonder how Kowa's best compares to those European counterparts. I wish someone had all of them and post a comparo here 
--------------------
Megrez 80 FD, Megrez 88, FLT-98, ZS110 APO
Vixen R150S, Vixen NA140SSf
Celestron C8 CF, C5 Spotter
WO 7x50
|
hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
|
|
Here is alittle info:
http://kowa-usa.com/frontend/proddetail.asp?pn=GENESIS%2044%2010.5x44&co=10000370,10000391
--------------------
Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
|
Scanning4Comets
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 5637
|
|
Quote:
http://www.opticsplanet.net/swarovski-15x56-forest-green-binoculars.html
You just HAD to post that link didn't you?
WOW !!!
--------------------
Markus
|
Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1120
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
|
|
Quote:
The Zeiss FL has many great qualities as an all - round daytime instrument , but aberration - free outer regions of the field of view is not amongst them .
Kenny
Kenny,
That was also my impression when I tried the Victory FL. "Sharp to the edges" is a common expression used by manufacturers which often is highly exaggerated.
Regards, Patric
--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold 6x30 Yosemite
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 
