GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi to everybody!
I have an incredible news!
The owner of General hi-t, here in Italy, has informed me that there is a new binoculars of 150mm with the possibility of using astronomical eyepieces of 2"!!
At present I have no other information about the technical specification, price and more.
I'll give you the technical specifications of the GHT 150 as soon possible
I have published a preview image on my website.www.binomania.it
You can see the photo here:
web page
Best Regards from Italy
Piergiovanni
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3208
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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They look absolutely stunning! Looking forward to a lot more information and especially the price.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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they also look a lot like the miyauchi clones of their 100mms
I hope that the optics equal or better the big fujis with lighter weight and cost.
edj
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n w arkansas
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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translated link
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Nick Lloyd
He asked for it
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 2156
Loc: cincinnati
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thanks joe
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"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Many thanks for the alert, Pier! Please keep us informed of further news, if/when you get any. I wonder how much these will cost? 
Mike Rapchak Jr.
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 2069
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Quote:
I hope that the optics equal or better the big fujis with lighter weight and cost.
Well at 46 lbs, they aren't going to help much in the weight department!
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Edited by CESDewar (09/22/08 01:26 AM)
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hello Guys, I entered the technical data on my website. Unfortunately I don't know yet the purchase price, but I can make these calculations:
In Italy the GHT 23-41x100 cost 900 euro
The 120mm cost 1600 euros
I think that the GHT 150 "could cost" over 3000 euros. (3500-4000?)
There are only suppositions..i am sorry
I know only that the purchase price should include the three pairs of eyepieces by 2 inches and a mounting bracket with a tripod.
There is only a problem:I have to test the quality of this instrument. 
I do not know if the optics are achromatic, ED or other
Obviously i am very curious to observe the double cluster in Perseus at 30X with a bigbino of 150mm with 72 ° AFOV...wow!
Best Regards from Italy
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
I do not know if the optics are achromatic, ED or other
Pier
Uhhh, yeah, ED I'm sure.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Chinese BT-150's
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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Since the miyauchi 141s are apparently no longer being made,
the 150mm fujis need some competition
I hope that these do it, but we will see.
If they are heavier than the fujis, more expensive than the fujis, they need to be better opticially.
edj
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n w arkansas
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 2069
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Well they are about twice the weight of the Miyauchi 141's, so no competition in that department. Optically, they are unlikely to be as good, but they will be less than half the price.
They are about the same weight as the Fuji's but quite a bit less expensive, and probably not as good optically, however, with interchangeable EP's and 45° viewing, they will pose very good competition!
All in all, I think they will prove to be exciting, although more so for people who can permanently mount them. At some 46lbs for just the OTA, this is not exactly a Grab&Go 
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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Quote:
Well they are about twice the weight of the Miyauchi 141's, so no competition in that department. Optically, they are unlikely to be as good, but they will be less than half the price.
They are about the same weight as the Fuji's but quite a bit less expensive, and probably not as good optically, however, with interchangeable EP's and 45° viewing, they will pose very good competition!
All in all, I think they will prove to be exciting, although more so for people who can permanently mount them. At some 46lbs for just the OTA, this is not exactly a Grab&Go
in effect-a BT 45-150 ?
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Looks like about f/5.4.....with 24mm Pan it would give 34x, afov of 2 degrees, and an exit pupil of about 4.3mm.
Will contact Kevin B and see what's up.
Edited by Mr. Bill (09/23/08 01:05 PM)
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Chinese BT-150's
My Chinese is a little weak...
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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richard7
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/02/07
Posts: 1540
Loc: Sacramento
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Chinese bt150's translation
(Boy, aren't computers neat.)
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Richard Trost
Orion 130st, Ioptron e/r80
Meade 10x50, Konusvue 20x80, Zhumell Tachiyon 25x100
Coffee thermos and cup
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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A few general comments....
I will bet that the eps supplied with this will not be all that great...the ones supplied with my BT100s are pretty poor in terms of edge correction and eye relief. When I substituted the 24 Pans, it really made the BTs perform up to their potential.
Three sets of mediocre eps are no match for one set of superior ones. The cost of 3 sets of 2 inch Naglers would be roughly 3/4s of the cost of these binoculars (if they are $4k US), so consider that in terms of the probable quality of the supplied eps.
The other point is ergonomics...if you have a narrow IPD and a fat nose bridge, you may not be able to use the supplied eps or for that matter after market 2 inch such as Naglers. I have a IPD of 65-66mm and a medium nose bridge and was JUST able to accommodate the Fuji 150s whose eps appeared to be less than 2 inches.
I would hope that these would be offered without eps but with the fork, but doubt if that would be an option.
Just got a reply from Kevin B. of Big Binocular. Here is his input(with his permission)....
"That's from the factory that makes the Miyauchi clones (not our factory). So I really don't know anything, not even sure if it's a real product yet. I'm trying to find out more... I've also seen the pics of the other 150mm on some of the Chinese websites, but that product doesn't exist even as a prototype."
So these are NOT "big brothers" of the BT100s and BT120s.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
Edited by Mr. Bill (09/24/08 10:25 AM)
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Here's another player in the big bino field. Not sure who these are made by/if they are the same as the other clones- I would assume they are?
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Wes, that looks like a Tokyo distributor of Chinese binoculars.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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The link provided by Wes led to Kasai Trading of Tokyo Japan. Looks like a Japanese trading company marketing Chinese binos.
I was very excited when I first saw the title of the thread of a New 150mm binocular by Pier and the link to the nice photo. Then I read a bit more in detail and I was less so. My thoughts:
21 kg is over 46 lbs. Much heavier than the 28 lb BT100/45 deg or the BT 120 at 35 lbs. I would want to be able to view at higher power than 25X, 30X and 35X if I am going to haul a 46 lb bino around. The Miyauchi 141mm was a very appealing set up because OTA wt was 26 lbs with 45 deg EPs. IMO much more user friendly than the Fuji 25X150.
I have used the 100mm Miyauchii Saturn III(with 39& 54X EPs) and my friend's 25/40X100mm 45 deg APM (Miyauchi clone). My experience is 13-16 lb giant binos are about the limit for a grab and go set-up. I can carry the 13 lb/29 inch Saturn III OTA in one hand and my Bogen 3246 tripod/516 head in the other and go out the door in one trip. Anything bigger with longer setup time and I'd use it less. A lot less.
My most used astro bino system since 2003 remains a pair of 20X80 LWs mounted on Bogen 501 fluid head and 3211 tripod. Total wt is 13.5 lbs with the binos mounted. I grab the whole set- up in one hand and go out the door with tripod legs extended.
If this is the same company making the APM 25/40X100 Miyauchi clone they will have to improve the EP holding arrangement. My friend's APM EPs are held in place with two very thin rubber O rings. They broke the 2nd time he swapped EPs. Those tiny O rings are impossible to find. He had to purchase O rings of a different size and trim them to fit. A poor design if you want to maintain critical collimation at 40X.
Miyauchi Saturn II & III EPs have a positive twist lock arrangement. APFOV is 66 deg. Stars are sharp to ~90%+ from center. Much sharper than my Japanese 20X80, 25X100 bino or the Chinese 20X80 LW. Excellent contrast. I would not be surprised if the Miyauchi EPs perform as well as a pair of TV Panoptics in a side-by-side test.
Erik D
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Eric
When you get to this size, don't think of these as binoculars, think of them as binocular telescopes. They are definitely not "grab and go"; same with my Fuji 150s.
I normally set the 150s up on the back patio for the two weeks around new moon and threw an astro cover over them when not in use.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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hello guys.
I am pleased that my message has generated this long debate. 
Unfortunately I have not yet been able to test this binoculars, I will give you my impressions as soon as possible.
The binoculars should also accept the astronomical eyepieces by two inches and 31.8mm, for this reason, I think that "might" get even with profit 100X, but there are 3 problems
1) I do not know its real optical performance
2) I do not know the strength of the mount fork and tripod that is essential for high power observation
3) I would compare it with a binoscopes with 150mm optical tube, to test its true potential
In principle it is not a portable instrument !
A lover of binoculars has various tools: I have binoculars for birdwatching, for purely terrestrial, for astronomy and a free hand to hunt for deep-sky objects. Every binocular has a function.
This binoculars is not done to stay in the bag, but should be easily transportable in a car.
In Italy the readers of binomania.it have asked me if it is comparable to a 25cm by Dobson .. I replied that a dobson is “only” a telescope .-),a big binoculars gives a completely different image from a telescope, what I call " navigation in the space"
in any case I think that actually there are few binoculars that you can compare with the new General hi-t
Miyauchi is a unique piece of art, with fluorite, has a short focal length and it’s very light , but it is more expensive and out of production
The 150mm ‘s Fujinon more affordable cost a lot and always has fixed eyepieces and give only a direct vision.
The Vixen 125mm is always a 125mm :-)
I think that maybe the only challenger could be a binoscope with Matsumoto mirrors and with two 150mm achromatic or Ed .. but I have yet to know the real price of the GHT 150. The price is crucial to have a real opinion about this tool. I hope that the manufacturer will maintain a low price!!!!please.
As for the binoculars of Kasai named in that link, i can said to you that i’ve the same version with interchangeable eyepieces that I bought from generalhit , it’s the 23-41x100, and it have a good optic. You can find a review, vs a Miyauchi on my website.
web page
Best
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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It would appear that the Chinese treat only the appearance of larger diameter, we hope that one day come to think that the binoculars should be as good optics and mechanics. With all the park of binoculars that have failed to make an optical quality equal to 70 mm Fujinon already want to overdo it with a 150mm. This shows that no qualitative skills.
Edited by STEEL (09/24/08 01:35 PM)
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milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 552
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
It would appear that the Chinese treat only the appearance of larger diameter, we hope that one day come to think that the binoculars should be as good optics and mechanics. With all the park of binoculars that have failed to make an optical quality equal to 70 mm Fujinon already want to overdo it with a 150mm. This shows that no qualitative skills.
This pretty much sums it up. The nagging problem with Chinese optics still seems to be lack of quality control. Some can be quite good while others are delivered with poor figure, mechanical defects, out of collimation, etc.
As has been stated many times before on this forum, it pays to buy from a reputable reseller who 100% tests the binoculars coming from China and screens out the rejects so they don't get shipped to you. I don't even want to think about who ends up with the ones they return.
If and when Kevin Busarow starts offering these 150's I will take them seriously.
Milt
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
It would appear that the Chinese treat only the appearance of larger diameter, we hope that one day come to think that the binoculars should be as good optics and mechanics. With all the park of binoculars that have failed to make an optical quality equal to 70 mm Fujinon already want to overdo it with a 150mm. This shows that no qualitative skills.
Fujinon 16 x 70mm FMT-SX Polaris binoculars "I'm only selling because I have purchased the AP binoculars"
Astro-Physics binoculars are the same as Garrett® Signature 15x70 HD-WP & 10.5x70 HD-WP Binoculars and Oberwerk Ultra Series 10.5x70mm / 15x70mm and all (AP,Garrett Optical Signature , Oberwerk Ultra Series ) are made in China.
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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michiel
sage
Reged: 09/16/04
Posts: 426
Loc: The hague Netherlands
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I am definitely drooling 
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questar 3.5
12" F5.3 truss dob (on dark holiday location in france)
TMB 203/9 Achro (godzilla) on G41 with FS2
eq6 skyscan and altazimuth vixen custom d mount
Aries Chromacorr O1
baader widefield binoviewer (27mm prisms)
25/40x100 45 degrees chinese border patrol binos
15x50 canon IS
10x70 vintage bino
25x100 apogee binos
50mm F18 brass
8x30 opticron mono (not really for astronomy)
scopos 80mm F6 (semi apo) refractor as finder for godzilla
152mm F5.9 TS (semi APO) big grab n go
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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Joe Ogiba is much more prestigious image quality as your Zeiss 7x42 FL. Personally I do not believe in what they write to the sites below. Fujinon is still a great Binoculars.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Fujinon 16 x 70mm FMT-SX Polaris binoculars "I'm only selling because I have purchased the AP binoculars"
Astro-Physics binoculars are the same as Garrett® Signature 15x70 HD-WP & 10.5x70 HD-WP Binoculars and Oberwerk Ultra Series 10.5x70mm / 15x70mm and all (AP,Garrett Optical Signature , Oberwerk Ultra Series ) are made in China.
That's a laugh....I'm thinking of doing the opposite as I am unhappy with the field edge performance of my AP 15x70s. Lots of coma/asigmatism in the outer 30% of the fov.
Too bad we didn't get together and just trade.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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Quote:
If and when Kevin Busarow starts offering these 150's I will take them seriously.
Milt
Mr Bill,
When you talked to Kevin, did he say anything about his factory producing the 150mms?
edj
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n w arkansas
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Hi edj
No, didn't talk to him other than emailing him the link to the binoculars and asking him what he knew. He emailed me back with the above quote in my earlier thread.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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okay folks, time for someone to bit the bullet and get a pair for review,
but remember, these are not for everybody.
my big fujis are, well, very big (on G11 tripod, UA Sirius P-mount and counterweights take up a circle of 6-8' diameter and 7' high)
heavy (41# binocs and 80# mount),
and not cheap.
but so is than 30" dob that we all dream about
edj
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n w arkansas
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Words of wisdom from edj....
Unless you have a permanent setup like Ed with an observatory, the task of assembling and disassembling the P-mount and mounting the 150s becomes daunting. My back was not happy. This is the main reason that I sold mine. The other was the 6mm exit pupil was not being fully utilized by my 5 mm dilated pupil; I was wasting aperture that was very expensive.
With the money realized from the sale of the 25x150s and the P-mount I bought:
Oberwerk BT100 45s, Helix fork mount, pair of 24 Pan eps, pair of 14mm Denkmeier eps, Vixen 140mm Petzval refractor, 13mm Ethos ep, 8mm Ethos ep, Fujinon 10x50 binoculars and am still ahead $1000+.
After owning both the Fujinon 25x150s and now the BT100 45s, I would definitely recommend the BTs over the 150s for the following reasons:
The 45 degree oculars allow you to effectively use a fork-tripod to reach zenith. The 150s being straight through required a P-mount to achieve the same altitude adjustment with similiar physical effort. The P-mount is heavy with many pieces to assemble and frankly not as stable as a fork-tripod.
The BT100s with the 24 Panoptic eps provide the same magnification and real and apparent fov as the 150s; the difference in exit pupils is 4mm exit vs 6mm. Under anything less than world class skies, you will not notice the difference. Also, resolution at these magnifications is not relevant; so the advantage of 6 inch vs 4 inch aperture is eliminated.
The chromatic aberration is less in the BTs... the field flatness and edge of field distortions are about the same with a nod to the BTs(with 24 Pans) having a slight edge. The contrast I judge to be about the same with a nod to the 150s; hard to beat those Fujinon coatings.
NOTE: The eps supplied with the BT100 IMO are junk but once you substitute the 24 Pans, it completely changes the situation. These eps allow the BTs to perform up to their potential which is a very high level. I think the BT 100 45s are an excellent trade off between price and performance; in other words, value.
Now as far as these BT150s with 45 oculars, this changes the above comments....the 45 degree oculars would allow mounting on a fork/tripod and eliminate the P-mount issue. This goes a long way in my mind to make these interesting.
OTOH, there is still the issue of the 2 inch eps in terms of quality and ergomonics as I talked about in an earlier post. Oh yeah, let's not forget weight.
I eagerly await further developments (and a guinea pig to buy and review.)
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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I like the big exit pupils (6mm exit pupils with 5mm eye pupils)-maybe it is wasted light, but more confortable for me.
otherwise, I cannot argue with Mr Bill above, especially when he referred to my post as "wisdom"
( if only I could get my wife to agree)
edj
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n w arkansas
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
The eps supplied with the BT100 IMO are junk but once you substitute the 24 Pans, it completely changes the situation. These eps allow the BTs to perform up to their potential which is a very high level. I think the BT 100 45s are an excellent trade off between price and performance; in other words, value.
What countries builds the BT's and Televue eyepieces ? 
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Quote:
The eps supplied with the BT100 IMO are junk but once you substitute the 24 Pans, it completely changes the situation. These eps allow the BTs to perform up to their potential which is a very high level. I think the BT 100 45s are an excellent trade off between price and performance; in other words, value.
What countries builds the BT's and Televue eyepieces ?
Is that a rhetorical question?
Obviously, the Chinese are capable of making quality products, IF you hold their feet to the fire as far as specifying parameters such as the coatings and maintaining tight QC....and this is up to the importers/vendors such as Oberwerk and Garret to do.
I believe that Kevin B (Oberwerk) went to China earlier this year to tour the factory that his product comes from.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
Edited by Mr. Bill (09/25/08 08:30 PM)
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 2069
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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Yes, the weight here is a big issue. I looked at the Miyauchi 141mm's but decided to get the Saturn III's instead - not because of the price, but because I realized the Saturn III's were going to get far more use based upon a total weight of < 25lbs for binos/tripod/mount. And indeed they do. I looked at the big Fujinon's too and while the aperture was appealing, I realized that there was no way I was going to be using them very often.
It's a real pity that Miyauchi appears to be going away - I had always hoped to see a pair of 120mm binoculars which Miya could have done for about 20lbs - what a fabulous pair that would have been! But my Saturn III's and Exceeds are still my most popular observing instruments (although my new TMB92 wins for high-powered observing).
I would recommend to anyone getting too excited about these 150mm Binos to take a box, fill it with 48lbs of rocks and then just practice lifting it up onto a mount.
But if you have a permanent or semi-permanent mount available, these will no doubt provide some fantastic views!!
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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and this is why there are not many 150mm binoculars out here
or many 25" plus scopes
edj
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n w arkansas
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
and this is why there are not many 150mm binoculars out here
or many 25" plus scopes
edj
That and deep pockets.
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 965
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Does anyone( other than Markus Luddes in Germany) have one of the 45 deg inclined Fuji 25 x 150?
I have lifted the older, heavier Fuji 25 x 150 straight view, with trunnions, some 20 lbs heavier than the current model, plus or minus depending upon brass reduction over the years, many times professionally and when stargazing. It is good exercise: keep back straight, lift with thigh muscles, keep a good grip on the trunnions, and pretend you are working to be the next Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is not a big ( at least not a tall) man.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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How long ago was that, Gordon....time moves on
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5658
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while it is a pain to transport, set up, take down 120#s of optics and mount, the views are fantastic with 150mm binoculars-comets, multiple galaxies, large open clusters, star clouds,milkyway, dark nebula, moon with eclipses, and just about anything else.
is it worth the price-I think so, but the price (money/labor) must be considered.
edj
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n w arkansas
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Some Chinese have tested the prototype of the new 150mm binocular.
According to their posts, it is 3-element achromatic.
It has similar CA , but a little bit better resolution than Fuji 25x150MT.
The mechanics is improving now.
Their goal is to keep balance at any angle of elevation.
More pictures can be found below.
http://www.bggd.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=84236&extra=page%3D1
Edited by cruxhsu (09/28/08 02:30 AM)
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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It would be better if the Chinese are beginning to take more action in their binoculars and less words, bringing high-quality instruments from 70 to 100 mm,which until now have failed to do.
Edited by STEEL (09/28/08 01:38 PM)
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Some Chinese have tested the prototype of the new 150mm binocular.
According to their posts, it is 3-element achromatic.
It has similar CA , but a little bit better resolution than Fuji 25x150MT.
The mechanics is improving now.
Their goal is to keep balance at any angle of elevation.
More pictures can be found below.
http://www.bggd.com/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=84236&extra=page%3D1
Translated version
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Post deleted by cruxhsu
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3453
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Wow.... this is exciting! Thanks for the translation, Joe- and the picture, Cruxhsu. Only one thing better than good binoculars- and that's good BIG binoculars!
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Post deleted by cruxhsu
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Post deleted by cruxhsu
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Post deleted by cruxhsu
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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Post deleted by cruxhsu
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Crux,
Thanks for the Nice photos. Gives us a much better idea of what the finished product looks like.
Looks like this pair has a nice carrying handle. Should make grabing and mounting the OTA easier than the 40 lb+ 25X150 Fujinons. My friend's 16 lb APM 25/40X 100 45 deg Miyauchi clone has a better (wider) carrying handle than the handle on my Miyauchi Saturn IIIs also. However, mounting arrangement of the APM is a single 1/4-20 bolt. IMO not very secure for a 16 lb OTA.
I love the idea having twin 25X EP with 72 deg APFOV but really wish higher power than 35X are available. Having the ability to use the Miyauchi Saturn IIIs at 54X made the investment worthwhile for me. ( I already have a pair of Japanese ProOptic 25X100s). To me Jupiter and Saturn looks better at 54X in my Miyauchi Saturn III than at 111X with my 100mm scope.
I have had a spare QuickSet Tripod capable of supporting 150 lb load sitting around for a few years. This tripod has 18 inch geared center column. Could be a very good match for the Chinese 150mm Ultra Binocular. My tripod is about 24 lbs with 3/8-16 adapter in place. Should make the total wt of the system around ~70 lbs. The fork and 45 deg EPs make it much more user friendly than the Fuji 25X150s.
ERik D
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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I think a pair of 22mm Naglers or 13mm Ethos if your IPD is 62mm or more would be great with them.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Jim Rosenstock
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 3711
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
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Quote:
It would be better if the Chinese are beginning to take more action in their binoculars and less words, bringing high-quality instruments from 70 to 100 mm,which until now have failed to do.
Errrr...I DISAGREE!
There are a number of premium-quality Chines binos from 70mm up. Of course, they cost a lot more than the corresponding cheap-s*** binos, but are still a big savings over similar quality Japanese units.
China will build your binoculars as good as you pay for.
Jim
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QUESTION AUTHORITY!
"errr....sez who??"
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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I had another look at the specs for this pair at Pier's Italian web page. The Focal length is ~ 824mm. This means 63X with 13 mm EPs. Since this pair can also accept standard 1.25in EPs, a pair of quality 8mm EPs will offer views of ~100X with 1.5mm exit pupil. Should be great for the planets.
Of course collimation will be most critical at such high power. I hope Garrett or Oberwerk decide to carry them.
I am getting more excited!!. Could be the Ultra Giant binocular I've been waiting for since 2002....The last pair of Giant bino I will need to purchase. Just have to get used to hauling and lifting a 46 lb OTA ;-))
Erik D
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mercedes_sl1970
super member
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 144
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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I had to take a few deep breaths reading this post... I thought, no, I would not respond, but, bugger it (standard Australian expression of frustration) I'm tired and I think that a little bit of reality is in order.
I am a rather fortunate owner of the 100mm BT45s, but had to scrape around somewhat for quite a while to buy them. Yes, I'd love to have a pair of 24mm Pan-whatevers and Denk-doobies, and other esoteric wide angle eyepieces with silly names (whose edges I probably cannot see out to), but I do actually quite enjoy my supplied eyepieces. Sure, there may be some aberration at the edge, but hey, I just look through them to enjoy the night sky. Every time I and others use them, the response is a simple "wow!". So, could we stop the almost offensive statements about the supplied eyepieces being junk and worthless? For some of us, that's all we can afford. I do have other eyepieces which I have bought for higher magnifications but nothing in the order of spending another $US600+ for a pair. This is well beyond me and, I imagine, many others.
Oh yes, and don't get me started about the level of arrogance towards the Chinese and their optics. I'm glad they make cheap, moderate and expensive items - this makes it far more accessible to the average consumer. Argh!
(a rather grumpy) Andrew
ps on topic - 150mm binoculars sound fantastic!
pps sincerest apologies if this post offends other readers.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
I had to take a few deep breaths reading this post... I thought, no, I would not respond, but, bugger it (standard Australian expression of frustration) I'm tired and I think that a little bit of reality is in order.
I am a rather fortunate owner of the 100mm BT45s, but had to scrape around somewhat for quite a while to buy them. Yes, I'd love to have a pair of 24mm Pan-whatevers and Denk-doobies, and other esoteric wide angle eyepieces with silly names (whose edges I probably cannot see out to), but I do actually quite enjoy my supplied eyepieces. Sure, there may be some aberration at the edge, but hey, I just look through them to enjoy the night sky. Every time I and others use them, the response is a simple "wow!". So, could we stop the almost offensive statements about the supplied eyepieces being junk and worthless? For some of us, that's all we can afford. I do have other eyepieces which I have bought for higher magnifications but nothing in the order of spending another $US600+ for a pair. This is well beyond me and, I imagine, many others.
(a rather grumpy) Andrew
ps on topic - 150mm binoculars sound fantastic!
pps sincerest apologies if this post offends other readers.
Andrew, I calls them as I sees them.....I stand by my statements. OBTW, I didn't say "worthless." Those are your words.
The eyepiece is half of the binocular. Unfortunately, it has been my observation that that is where cost cutting occurs all too often.
The eye relief of the supplied eyepieces is terrible; you have to jam your eye sockets into the eyecups to see the field stop; the 24 Pans OTOH, are very comfortable and allow viewing for prolonged periods without discomfort.
The apparent fov is around 60 degrees, not the 68 degrees supplied by the 24 Pans.
The coma/astigmatism starts at about 50% out from the center of the fov and rapidly deteriorates to Star Wars warp drive at the field stop, whereas in the 24 Pans stars are pinpoint out to the last 5-10%.
The contrast of the Pan 24s on faint extended DSOs such as bright/dark nebulae and starfields in the Milky Way is clearly in a different class than the supplied eps. The Pan 24s easily reveal detail that is only hinted at by the other pair.
The 24 Panoptic eyepiece turns a mediocre optic into a superior one; that is my opinion.... YMMV, different strokes, etc.
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
Edited by Mr. Bill (09/30/08 01:34 PM)
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Quote:
I had another look at the specs for this pair at Pier's Italian web page. The Focal length is ~ 824mm. This means 63X with 13 mm EPs. Since this pair can also accept standard 1.25in EPs, a pair of quality 8mm EPs will offer views of ~100X with 1.5mm exit pupil. Should be great for the planets.
I haven't seen any mention of an ED element in these; if these are just 150mm f5.5 achros I would expect a LOT of long. CA on planets way before 100x. Even the Miya Sat IIIs with their longer f7.5 4" achro objectives are showing noticeable CA at 75x, of course even more at 150x.
Let's hope these will be revealed to have ED glass for the color correction they'll need for good planetary views. If not, at least they will be nice for less bright objects.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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If they are ED then expect to pay $10,000 for them.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
If they are ED then expect to pay $10,000 for them.
Right on, the Chinese have to pay for exotic glass just like anyone else....cheap labor doesn't trump expensive glass.
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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“Jim Rosenstock”
It 'also true that for the same optical correction similar to Fujinon 16x70, you must choose the 15x85 or 20x110, this does not seem synonymous with high quality optics.
In fact, as rightly say China continues to make binoculars just to settle financially.
While the most demanding, it must address the binoculars made in Germany or Japan where these factories have knowledge and experience working on optical mechanics.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14724
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
“Jim Rosenstock”
It 'also true that for the same optical correction similar to Fujinon 16x70, you must choose the 15x85 or 20x110, this does not seem synonymous with high quality optics.
In fact, as rightly say China continues to make binoculars just to settle financially.
While the most demanding, it must address the binoculars made in Germany or Japan where these factories have knowledge and experience working on optical mechanics.
I'm not sure I would agree with that. I made close comparison tests with the 15x70 Ultra and the 16x70 Fujinon. These are very close. See my review of the 15x70 Ultra in CN Reports.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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The correction to a 15x85 image similar to 16x70, while
the 15x70 to slightly more distortion and more CA.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14724
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
The correction to a 15x85 image similar to 16x70, while
the 15x70 to slightly more distortion and more CA.
Comparing the 15x70 Ultra to the 16x70 Fujinon
At 70% out the aberrations in the Ultra and the Fujinon are equal. At 90% out the Fujinon has less, but the Ultra has a slightly wider fov.
The Ultra has nearly identical illumination of the exit pupil completely across the fov.
The Ultra measures better normal power on-axis resolution and equal boosted power resolution.
I would say these two are about equal for false color.
The Ultra reaches equal or slightly better limits on magnitude on faintest stars.
You really don't have a lot to go on to say the Ultra 15x70 fails in comparison of optical performance.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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STEEL
super member
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 174
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EDZ Thanks for your comparison.
I still think the good 15x70, 15x85, 20x110,even if my comparison I made the 15x70 is mechanical and optical quality is lower than the Fujinon 16x70. What I think the Chinese put too much equipment into service, and could better care for example aberrations of 28x110 and tilt the eyepieces at 45° or 90°, like the Fujinon 25x150.This type of instrument would be more economically accessible to all .
Edited by STEEL (09/29/08 06:09 PM)
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cruxhsu
member
Reged: 09/04/06
Posts: 41
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I deleted the posts that include the pictures of the new 150mm binoculars cause I have not obtained the original author- Mr. Mok's permission to copy those pictures from his post. Once Mr. Mok allows me to copy the pictures, I will repost them. Sorry to Mr. Mok.
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Nick Lloyd
He asked for it
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 2156
Loc: cincinnati
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Quote:
Quote:
If they are ED then expect to pay $10,000 for them.
Right on, the Chinese have to pay for exotic glass just like anyone else....cheap labor doesn't trump expensive glass.
What defines expensive glass?
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"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If they are ED then expect to pay $10,000 for them.
Right on, the Chinese have to pay for exotic glass just like anyone else....cheap labor doesn't trump expensive glass.
What defines expensive glass?
$10K...
--------------------
10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
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milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 552
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Since this pair can also accept standard 1.25in EPs, a pair of quality 8mm EPs will offer views of ~100X with 1.5mm exit pupil. Should be great for the planets.
Hi Erik,
That's a good thought but I wouldn't get my hopes up. Throwing aperture at planets does not guarantee a great image, as 12" Chinese Dob's frequently prove. However an excellent figure IS necessary, preferably 1/6th wave or better spherical correction. For what these bino's will probably cost it would be safer to buy a smaller quality apo and binoviewer for planetary viewing.
Best, Milt
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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The planets look alot better in my C9.25 with a pair of 13mm Ethos with Denk II in .66x focal reducer mode than any of my big binoculars.
--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1767
Loc: Connecticut
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Hi Joe,
What's the magnification of the above set-up? I'm assuming it's in a binocular range of mag.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14724
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Hi Joe,
What's the magnification of the above set-up? I'm assuming it's in a binocular range of mag.
130x to 150x, depending on the actual reduction, which can vary considerably from the stated 0.66x due to the actual distance behind the nominal focal plane at the visual back.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Hi Joe,
What's the magnification of the above set-up? I'm assuming it's in a binocular range of mag.
Hi Peter,
On paper the 13mm Ethos with .66 focal reducer shows 119x but for lower power and 70° AFOV I use a pair of 20mm Pentax XW's for 77x. I just purchased the C6 SCT that takes the same setup so I could get the power down to 76x with a pair of 13mm Ethos or 49x with a pair of 20mm Pentax XW's. With a pair of 40mm Plossls I could cut the power in half.
Joe
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14724
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi Joe,
What's the magnification of the above set-up? I'm assuming it's in a binocular range of mag.
Hi Peter,
On paper the 13mm Ethos with .66 focal reducer shows 119x but for lower power and 70° AFOV I use a pair of 20mm Pentax XW's for 77x. I just purchased the C6 SCT that takes the same setup so I could get the power down to 76x with a pair of 13mm Ethos or 49x with a pair of 20mm Pentax XW's. With a pair of 40mm Plossls I could cut the power in half.
Joe
Those calculations fail to take into account the UP factor when using an SCT. Moving the focal point further behing the visual back of an SCT increases the effective focal length of an SCT. An SCT with a binoviewer is not operating at f/10. It's more like f/11.5 or f/12.5. See the section in the Binoviewer Forum Best Of links on the effective focal length of an SCT.
My Celestron C5 with a diagonal gets an effective focal length of F=1350. (~f/11)
My Celestron C5 with binoviewer with no reducer operates at F=1700. (f/13.6)
The Denkmeier reducer in the C5 operates at 0.8x, but that is 0.8xF=1350 = net F=1080.
All the other SCTs are operating in a similar manner. The result is you can't get powers as low as you've stated with those eyepieces in your SCTs.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Do the math on a pair of 40mm Plossl's in a Denk II in .66x focal reducer mode with the C6 and it should be down in a big binocular power range even with the longer focus pont.
40mm Plossls in the Denk II
13mm Ethos & C6
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1267
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Why guess at the magnification? Measure the exit pupil to within 0.1mm and get a more reliable answer. (Actually, any 7X to 10X loupe with reticle will enable measurements to +/- 0.05mm.)
An example using a small-ish exit pupil. An 8" SCT, in ANY configuration re. Barlows, reducers , bino viewers, etc., having a 1.2mm exit pupil is operating at 169X. If the error is 0.1mm, the range is +/- 8% or 156X to 185X. With larger exit pupils the relative error diminishes.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14724
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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40mm plossls in a Denk (net Afov due to the limiting CA of the Denk = 37°) and reducer all in a C6 would give you 30x-32x with a max 1.2° fov. The binoviewer would make the C6 scope act like a 100mm binocular. So you get 30x100 with a 1.2° fov.
My BT100
with a 18mm Radian (Afov = 60°) gives 34x100 with a 1.75° fov
with a 20mm TV pl (Afov = 50°) gives 31x100 with a 1.6° fov
with a 24mm Tak LE (Afov = 52°) gives 26x100 with a 2° fov
In this instance, for low power wide field, I'd prefer the BT100 over the C6.
The binoviewer is not made to compete with the binocular. The binoviewer is better at higher powered binocular vision viewing. I like using my C5 with binoviewer, but generally it's up around 75x to 100x for an effective 75x80 or 100x80.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1767
Loc: Connecticut
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I see now that the set-up Joe showed us with the 9.25 was what would be good for "binocular" planetary viewing. I mistakenly thought Joe was presenting us with an equivalent set-up to the new 150mm binoculars. These and other giant binoculars like the Miyauchi Saturn III's, The Oberwerk 100/120's and the Vixen 125's all might work at higher than normal magnifications, but that's really not what they excel at.
Thanks to Joe, Ed and Glen for explaining how to figure the magnification of these binoscoped catadioptric scopes.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 965
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Mr. Bill asked if I have lifted any of the 60+ lbs trunnion equipped Fuji Meibo/Fujinon 150 mm model I recently. Yes, I have, but it is certainly not a grab and go situation.
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Mr. Bill
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 3147
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Quote:
Mr. Bill asked if I have lifted any of the 60+ lbs trunnion equipped Fuji Meibo/Fujinon 150 mm model I recently. Yes, I have, but it is certainly not a grab and go situation.
Well, I'm no "girlie boy,"... thanks, Arnold S., but "a man has to know his limitations,"... thanks Clint E.
Only my chiropractor knows for sure.......
Mr. Bill
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10x50 Fujinon binos + 16x70 Fujinon binos + UA UniMount
Oberwerk BT100 45 degree +24mm Pans + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
130mm TMB 130SS f/7 APO refractor
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/8 homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery "Galactic Cannon"
Member IDA
Edited by Mr. Bill (10/05/08 04:13 PM)
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi Guys, i've published more images here http://www.binomania.it/binocoli/astrotechoptik/novitaastrotech.php
Best Regards
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Hi Pier,
Thanks very much for your link to the 150mm deg Ultras. Wow!
Do you have access to a pair currently? If so I would like to know how does the fork mount attach to the tripod? Is it a 3/8 inch-16 threaded bolt, a 5/8-11 or some other mounting arrangement?
Erik D
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 196
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi Erik, I "should try "these binoculars at the end of October. I think to write a preview and to make a small movie with my camcorder, I'll published all on my website.
best regards
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Georgeo
newbie
Reged: 01/05/09
Posts: 2
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I'm new to the group and I'm curious about the optical quality of the General hi-t 150mm binocular with interchangeable eyepieces. Has anyone looked through them and if so how is the viewing quality on deep sky objects?
Georgeo
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Georgeo,
A warm welcome to Cloudy Nights.
I am quite interested in learning more about the BT 150mm but I have not seen any report of sighting by any user in the USA on this or any other forum.
Given that the optical system is 150mm ~F 5.5 achromat I would expect false color to be readily visible.
I would love to own such a binocular but at 21 kg/46 lbs I think it would be a project to set up each time. I am familiar with the effort required to hoist and mount a 30 lb telescope. This monster weighs half again more!
ERik D
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BobinKy
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 1683
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Pier--
I really like your landscape photography--particularly "Placet Omen" in the Mountain series.
Thank you for posting a link in your signature.
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Bob
38°N
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boydd
sage
Reged: 12/07/07
Posts: 237
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If we are going to use the word telescope then the focuser should be 90*. Telescopers use 90* for a reason in astronomy. Straight through and 45* is great for daytime. Two uses, two scopes. One can make anything work for ones individual purpose. Several folks skillfully demonstrate this (EdZ/Mr.Bill) but are several deviations away from the norm.
How about a 45* and 90* version?
#46 is too heavy at any price.
Please do not hijack the thread with a never ending debate on 90* vs 45*.
Dave Boyd
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 965
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??The Fuji right angle 25 x 150 weighed about 65 pounds. I used it many times while demonstrating, and while heavy, it was not a crisis to handle. The current straight and 45 deg versions are about 45 pounds. I do not see any way that weight could be significantly reduced without serious compromise of integrity and/or cost. Perhaps the use of titanium fasteners might shave off a tiny bit, but would not be cost effective. Perhaps magnesium body? But probably corrosion problem in marine use, though modern formulations claim to have greatly reduced that problem. But thermal expansion is higher, and cost would also be higher.
With the use of mirrors,instead of prisms, the deviation angle can be extended from perhaps 70 deg. to 110, 120, 135, 150, or whatever one wants, up to 180 deg., which would be nearly ideal for the zenith. The beamprints on the mirrors become less elongated as the total deviation angle increases. See what I wrote in the 200 mm. Macau thread. Erect, unreversed images are retained . One might want to lie on the binocular in some configurations, if one wanted to view the object in the same way as usually depicted in books, or for terrestrial use. But remember that southern hemisphere observers see northern objects inverted from the usual perspective of northern observers, and vice versa.
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Most able bodied adult males should be able to hoist 40 to 50 lbs to shoulder height without much difficulty. Setting it up on a regular basis on frigid nights when we our schedule only permits a 30 min window to observe is a different story.
I use my 20X80 LW binocular with straight thru EP much more often than my Miyacuhi 100mm F7.5 with 45 deg EP. We hear many complaints about using giant binos without straight EPs for astronomy, but I think the number of CN members using 15X70, 20X80 and 25X 100 with straight EP FAR out number owners of angled binoculars.
Using 45 deg angled binos for astronomy is nice. 90 deg is NOT a must for ME.
ERik D
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4062
Loc: NJ USA
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Quote:
Using 45 deg angled binos for astronomy is nice. 90 deg is NOT a must.
If you compare a 45° vs 90° diagonal on a scope for astro use you will see why almost all use the 90° version.
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 2069
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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I'm definitely inclined to agree with Erik when it comes to 45° vs. 90° binoculars. I find that 45° works fine in almost all cases - yes, perhaps right near the Zenith the 90's would have an advantage, but I also like viewing in the general direction of where I'm observing, as opposed to viewing at a 90° right-angle.
Like Erik, I have Saturn III's and on many nights I'll just take my 30x77mm Exceeds out instead - at some 5.5lbs (vs. 13lbs) and on a correspondingly lighter mount, I find I get 80-90% of the viewing pleasure with a setup that goes out, binos, mount, and tripod, all held with one hand. And that kind of spontaneity is what binocular observing is all about. Certainly the Saturn III's outperform the Exceeds, but it's double the weight and gets carried out in two pieces, vs. one. And on many nights even the Exceeds succumb to the Canon 18x50's which require no mount at all and can provide remarkable views for a quick 5min. foray outside when the temps are better suited to Polar bears than Astronomers.
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Andresin150
sage
Reged: 08/14/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Bogotá - La Calera / Colombia
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I wrote 2 weeks ago to the Chinese factory that makes the "new" giant BA6 150mm binoculars and asked them for their price and here is what they wrote to me yesterday:
Dear Andres,
This 25x150 binoculars FOB price is USD2600, including one set of eyepiece, hard case, tripod and U fork mount. And our minimum order quantity for mass order is 3 pieces.
Thanks,
Kevin Zhou
So here in Colombia I have no partners to buy 3, but if interested, 3 of you in the States could probably buy them in company...
At that price, sure they are non ED and semiapos, but reading the specs they look good enough, specially good eye relief and 45º eps, whit tripod, fork mount,... If I knew that I could sell them here, probably I´ll buy the 3, but not too many comet hunters here in Colombia...
Still keeping strong desire for my "future" 150 Fujis....
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25x150 MT
30-50x120's
Ultra 15x70's
GOTO NEX Planetarium
1 Macaw, 1 Toucan, 1 parrot and many other little ones...
And the nicest greenhouse!
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