Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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The sky cleared and so I was out tonight with my new Docter Nobilem 15x60.
As the first stars started to show in twilight, the Nobilem's first light was on brilliant white Vega, and I liked what I saw, a lot, but I didn't linger there for long as Vega was almost exactly overhead and therefore not in the most comfortable viewing location. Altair was much better placed and that's where I spent the next few minutes.
In these early minutes I had my Orion MiniGiant 15x63 along with me, and comparing the two views quickly showed a superior overall light transmission in the Nobilem. Despite having a slight exit pupil disadvantage (4 mm vs 4.2 mm), the Nobilem showed a noticeably brighter sky background and more vivid sky colour.
First DSO seen was M11. This was still in twilight, with the Sun just over 7° below the horizon. M11 was nothing but a smudge with a star right next to it. But it was visible directly, whereas in the Orion I needed averted viewing and then still only saw it intermittently. I'd say this amounts to a contrast advantage for the Nobilems.
45 minutes later the view on M11 was much nicer, showing its typical glow-with-some-stars appearance. By this time the Sun was already 14° below the horizon and the first glimpses of the Milky Way were becoming visible. The sky was promising to be a bit better than usual at my site, and I gave up comparing with the Orions, deciding to just sit back and enjoy the new toy. For some time I just scanned around the sky, picking up a few targets here and there - M27, M71, Coathanger, etc. Had a nice good-bye view of M17 the Swan Nebula, which will soon be gone from view.
I got a great hand-held view of the beautiful double star Albireo. Hand-holding really is a breeze for me with these 15x60. Something about the ratio of weight / size / form factor / balance makes them just right for hand-holding for short periods of time or for scanning around the sky, which is exactly my viewing style on most nights. For comparison I went back inside to get my 10x50, which for many people is a benchmark of what they can just hold steady enough. I half expected the 15x60 to be as steady as the 10x50, but that was a bit foolish of course. But there really wasn't that much difference.
Bright stars focus tightly without significant flaring or spiking, and fainter ones are just points. Away from the center it degrades a bit quicker than I had hoped, and at the edge bright stars look like seagulls. In normal viewing when the target is centered, the overal impression is of a pleasing, natural, quality view leading right up to the edges without gross defects distracting the attention (unless perhaps when there's a really bright star at the edge), and bordered by a sharp black edge.
Focus is decisive and stays put. No need to fiddle with it once they're focussed. The focus wheel and right eyepiece diopter setting are both sufficiently stiff that they won't get knocked off their intended position.
High haze and clouds are rolling in, so that's all for tonight.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Sounds like a very positive first night out. I hope you'll eventually wow us with a double star obs. I give you a one time permit to brace the binocular. This is an unusual binocular, and I think a lot of us would like to know more about it. Thanks for sharing first light. And happy 30 2/3th year observing!
Ron
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Man in a Tub
Not Retired!, But a little cranky!!!
Reged: 10/28/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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Quote:
Sounds like a very positive first night out. I hope you'll eventually wow us with a double star obs. I give you a one time permit to brace the binocular. This is an unusual binocular, and I think a lot of us would like to know more about it. Thanks for sharing first light. And happy 30 2/3th year observing!
Ron
Hi Ron, I take you mean some mind-boggling splitting as is your wont, not just easy, ole Albireo?
Yes, this is an unusual binocular. It'll probably keep me from ever putting my Oberwerk 15x60 back into my signature.  (I still use it along with the other binoculars in my signature.)
Too bad, the sky flaked out on you, Mark. I'm looking forward to more observing reports with this binocular. Your reports are always a spot-on, great read.
Beneath the leaden fog...Whoops! Scratch that! I just looked out the bathroom window. I think I see some stars! Geez!
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Todd
Brunton Eterna 15x51 ° Garrett Optical Signature Series 15x70
Nikon Action EX 12x50 ° Oberwerk 15x60 and 20x80 Standard
Orion Paragon Plus Mount and Paragon XHD Tripod
Garrett Optical Series 2000 Grip-Action Monopod
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Thanks guys. Ron, I have a list of 15 selected double stars printed out, and for sure I will put the Nobilems on a tripod for that work. But it also requires the sky and my eyes to cooperate 
Todd, I think your Oberwerk 15x60 are just as uncommon. Don't be shy about them.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Man in a Tub
Not Retired!, But a little cranky!!!
Reged: 10/28/08
Posts: 2059
Loc: San Francisco, CA
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OK...
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Todd
Brunton Eterna 15x51 ° Garrett Optical Signature Series 15x70
Nikon Action EX 12x50 ° Oberwerk 15x60 and 20x80 Standard
Orion Paragon Plus Mount and Paragon XHD Tripod
Garrett Optical Series 2000 Grip-Action Monopod
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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Here's a few more facts and figures:
IPD range is 53 to 74 mm. There is no IPD scale, but there are three markings corresponding to 60, 66 and 71 mm. For most uses it will probably be sufficient to eye-ball where in between these markings they need to be set.
The closest focussing distance, for my eyes, is just over 7 m. Slightly shorter than the specified 7.4 m.
On the stars last night, I measured the TFOV at 4.1 to 4.15°, making for a 62° AFOV. Nice.
Objective caps are tethered and so far function very well. There's a single very loosely-fitting eyepiece cap that's meant to slide down on the neck strap - nothing unexpected in a binocular targeted at the hunting market. I found that when attaching it to the neck strap at one side only, it works OK for me so I decided to leave it on.
The tripod mount is really something peculiar on these Nobilems. I'll try and post a picture later. It's a two piece adapter, with the first piece screwing onto the binocular housing - it can be left in place permanently (luckily, because it's not so easy to attach). The other part then clips onto that.
In actual use, this works very well - faster than a normal tripod adapter that screws into the central hinge.
With the caps, neck strap and first part of the tripod mount all attached, they weigh 1680 g. They balance very well.
Coatings have a dark green or purple cast depending on the angle. They are so dark it's difficult to see how far the objectives are recessed from the front of the barrels.
I sat outside in bright sunlight, looking at tree branches against a bright sky. Couldn't find any chromatic aberration in the center of the FOV, and only some slight amount in the outer 1/3rd (by radius).
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Here's a few doubles for you Ron (and anybody else who's interested). To avoid confusion, this was with the Nobilem 15x60 tripod mounted:
STF 2276 AB (6.9") elongated
Gamma ARI (7.4") very elongated
STF 2718 AB (8.5") two stars touching
Gamma DEL (9.1") split about half of the time
STF 2848 (10.8") nice clean split, still very tight
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Pics please!
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Clear skies
Rich
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Woo hoo Gamma Del! I don't see it split half the time even in 16x70, but at least I can tell it's double. I also elongate Gamma Ari at 16x70, but I have split it sas two perfect beads by stopping my 16x70 down to 32mm, complete perversion I know but it was between me and a consenting binocular.That was about the teenyest thing I've ever seen. I'll have to to dope out the STFs. May I suggest Mizar?
Tub Dude, dig that at splitting doubles, Mark is likely the best on the forum. Also this is a thousand buck Porro!
Ron
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daniel_h
sage
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 485
Loc: VIC, Australia
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yes, where are the pics - & the comparison with the zeiss 15x60 of old
I hope you enjoy them for years to come
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regal 10x42, 10x50ultras, 15x70 ultras, 20x80
Oly e-500, vixen 100/1000 with 0.965"/1.25",
2 old sturdy tripods for the bins (slik & velbon)
zeiss f5.6 refractor/lens (under construction)
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Here are the Nobilems ready to go.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Close-up of the tripod adapter.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Objective end.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Eyepiece end.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Exit pupil.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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IPD scale and diopter setting.
Notice also the silver dot on the focussing ring and the reference line on the hinge. One can quickly set approximate infinity focus in this way.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Daniel, if you send me a Zeiss 15x60 I'll be more than happy to carry out an extensive comparison!
I can already tell you, however, that the Zeiss 15x60 BGAT is renowned for its excellent edge sharpeness, whereas this is one of the weaker points (perhaps the only one) of the Nobilem.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Veeeerrrrrrryyyyy nice.
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Clear skies
Rich
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Jeroen
member
Reged: 08/20/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Belgium
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Mark,
Congratulations with your new binocular !
Jeroen
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Thanks Jeroen, I'm really enjoying this new binocular - as I'm sure you're still enjoying your Zeiss 15x60.
Ron, thanks for the tip on trying for Mizar. Boy is this a tough one because of the very bright mag 2 primary (I'm going to try this during twilight one day, that should make it easier). It took the most careful focussing and setting of IPD and precision positioning of my eyes before I managed to split it (just barely), and then only part of the time. My usual viewing method of leaning the tripod towards me on two legs, is just not sufficiently stable for this kind of work. But it was a great view in the end, and Mother Nature came along and celebrated with me by sending a meteor streaking across (and out of) the FOV.
On another note, two things continue to surprise me about the 15x60 Nobilem:
First is the great contrast and light transmission. I was out tonight under a sky that was just a touch above LM 5, with the Milky Way just barely a glimpse. Yet the Nobilem showed me a very promising view of the North America Nebula, and the eastern section of the Veil Nebula just immediately popped into view. Can't wait to get these out under a really dark sky.
The second surprise is what a clean focus I get on Jupiter. It's a clean bright ball of light, and if it wasn't as bright I'd even consider looking for the cloud bands. The moons are quite impressive to see and can be spotted even when they're within a few arcminutes of the planet.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Mark,
Mizar's nasty alright, I do about as well as that with my 16x70. On another night of optical indiscretion, I split it with a 10x50 stopped to 35mm.
The clean focus on Jupiter is to be prized over great riches--a choice you sort of made already.
Ron
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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I love your posting style Ron!
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Clear skies
Rich
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Thanks Rich. Actually I was hoping for substance, oh well.
Ron
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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There's a topic I haven't covered yet, and that is edge sharpness. Tonight I had the opportunity to look at a few double stars and measure how far from the edge of the FOV I could still resolve them.
STF 485 (in NGC1502) : 18" separation, seen resolved until about 1°05' from the edge.
STTA 26 (1° NE of Stock 2) : 63" separation, seen resolved until about 25' from the edge.
Well, not to beat around the bush, these numbers clearly demonstrate that the edge sharpness of this Nobilem 15x60 is compromised, and as such it is not a purebred astronomy binocular.
Earlier in the evening I also looked at the first quarter Moon when it was low in the South-West during twilight. Placing the Moon at various positions across the FOV, I estimated that I need to put it at least 3/4° from the edge for it to be sharp.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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That's not bad edge correction as such.maybe designed primarily as a terrestrial observation bino, or perhaps a hunting binocular (centre focus, great contrast for low light use).
Nobilem, docter optik have a very good reputation this side of the pond.
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Clear skies
Rich
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PJ Anway
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 1142
Loc: Michigan's U.P.
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Quote:
There's a topic I haven't covered yet, and that is edge sharpness. Tonight I had the opportunity to look at a few double stars and measure how far from the edge of the FOV I could still resolve them.
STF 485 (in NGC1502) : 18" separation, seen resolved until about 1°05' from the edge.
STTA 26 (1° NE of Stock 2) : 63" separation, seen resolved until about 25' from the edge.
Well, not to beat around the bush, these numbers clearly demonstrate that the edge sharpness of this Nobilem 15x60 is compromised, and as such it is not a purebred astronomy binocular.
Mark,
Would this edge-sharpness trait be true with all Nobilem 15X60's? I have a pair of Zeiss Nobilem 15X60B's and have not noticed this problem, but I must admit I have not looked specifically for it.
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PJ
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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STF 485 (in NGC1502) : 18" separation, seen resolved until about 1°05' from the edge.
STTA 26 (1° NE of Stock 2) : 63" separation, seen resolved until about 25' from the edge.
Well, those measures are not too shabby. 63" at 25 arcmin from edge puts it at about 80% out and that at least puts the Nobilem in good company. Yes there are still quite a few that could move that 63" pair out to 90%, but there are far more that push it in to 60-70%, so that's not to bad.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Thanks EdZ, perhaps I was over-interpreting the numbers.
PJ, there has to be at least 15 years in between our two Nobilems, so who knows what's changed? Fact is, in mine the edge unsharpness is there when I look for it, but doesn't distract much when I don't.
Rich, indeed this 15x60 is said to be targeted at hunters.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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A few notes from this evening's session:
I was watching the gibbous Moon, one day past First Quarter, with Copernicus beautifully placed against the termintor. The combination of the large image scale with an incredible amount of small detail resolved, the excellent contrast in the albedo markings on the lunar Maria, and the Moon's elusive colours - greens, purples and browns on the Maria - becoming visible, made for a most impressive view.
The view of the Moon is essentially colour-neutral. The hue you see with the naked eye is faithfully reproduced, as far as my eyes can tell. Viewing the Moon also confirmed what I wrote earlier: there is as good as no chromatic aberration in a large central part of the FOV.
As most conventional binoculars, the Nobilems show a ghost image of the Moon - two actually, one for each eye - which is due to light bouncing between the eye and the eyepiece. These ghost images are smaller and reversed, and of course a whole lot fainter than the Moon itself. They disappeared when a band of cirrus toned down the bright light of the Moon.
Other than that there's nothing to complain about in the view you get of the Moon. For completeness I mention that at a 45° angle to the upper right or left, with the Moon about 2-3° out of the FOV, there is some glare.
I've mentioned colour-neutral on the Moon and colour-free when it comes to CA, but on the stars this 15x60 is anything but colour-free. I'm surprised at how well they can differentiate between white stars and yellow ones, and indeed coloured stars stand out in many starfields seen. On yellow stars they rival my 7x50 and on something vivid orange like Mu CEP, they are nor far behind.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Mark, your description of the Moon's ghosts would seem to suggest that the source is not reflection off your eyes, but is instead an internal reflection between optical elements. To verify this, observe the ghosts (of bright streetlights if it's cloudy) as you move your eyes closer/farther from the eye lenses. If they retain their appearance and size, your eyes are likely not the cause. Better yet, do this with the bino steadily mounted, and while moving your eyes laterally as well. I'd be curious to know the result....
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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A note about hand-holdability (is that a word?) of the Nobilem 15x60. Several factors come into play, and perhaps the two most inportant ones are the observer's experience with hand-holding binoculars and his tolerance for the shakiness that's definitely there.
On the binoculars themselves, I notice the following:
- a weight of about 1.6 kg is IMO just about ideal for this size binocular. You need a bit of heft for dampening the motion.
- they balance extremely well. I can hold them back by the prism housing, or on the objective barrels, or in between.
- something that helps with the previous point, is that they are about equally "thick" to hold wherever you put your hands.
- something else that helps is the very grippable rubber covering. In fact, any more grippable and you'd call it sticky.
- the rubber eyecups are sufficiently stiff that they can give some support against your eyes (yet remain easily foldable).
People with normal sized hands will find the 15x60 Nobilem rather large to hold, and an initial concern might be that with the hands in normal position, the focussing wheel cannot be reached. This turns out to be a non-issue, at least for astronomical use. For critical work like double stars, you'd put them on a tripod and then it doesn't matter. For general viewing, the focus remains so constant even from one day to the next, that there's just no need to re-focus once they're set.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Glenn, the ghosts are best seen at a certain distance from the eyepiece. They also have this typical behaviour of having a much faster motion than either the Moon or the eyes. To me they look everything like reflections off the eye, as I've seen on most other binoculars I've ever looked through. But this is not something very easy to describe.
edit: I've also owned binoculars that showed ample internal reflections and ghost images, so I do know what that looks like.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
Edited by Mark9473 (08/29/09 07:09 PM)
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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They sound great Mark. Just for my own curiosity, what is the internal construction like as you look down the objectives? Eccentric ring collimation? Baffle rings? Prism clamps? glue tab anchors?
Thanks!
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Clear skies
Rich
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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Rich, I'm not knowledgeable enough to judge what I'm seeing on the inside, and it's even very hard to see anything at all down there. But I did manage a picture - does this help you?
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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That's a good pic, looks similar to the fujinon 16x70 fmt with the flat grey tube wall until roughly halfway down, then a baffle ring or stepped wall section to cut down scatter.
Everything looks very well blackened/greyed and no reflective surfaces. Probably why they have such good contrast (amongst other reasons).
Thanks for posting the pic
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Clear skies
Rich
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Mark, I have had several pairs of these 15x60's and just love them! I have, for dumb reasons, traded them away but am trying to locate another pair.... Could you please share where you were able to find this green armored, I assume, NIB pair? Thanks - Chuck
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Chuck, I bought mine from Optixxx in Germany.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Thanks Mark! I'm assuming you are in Europe?
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Yes I am. They do ship internationally AFAIK.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Thank you Mark! And thanks for the posts on this great bin! Keep them coming, we here so little about this bin and the Docter company
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mooreorless
Just worried
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 1825
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
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Hi CL, So when are you going to get the Docter Aspectem 20x50-80?
Welcome to Cloudy Nights!
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Regards,Steve M
Edited by mooreorless (09/08/09 03:18 AM)
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Hi Steve, Thanks for having me! I would die for a set of Aspectems! I actually used a set in Ol' Mexico and they were absolutely amazing bins! Not portable at all though...
I think I'll start by getting back a pair of the 15x60 Nobilems 
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Mark, any new thoughts on your Docters?
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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I've enjoyed them very much over the last couple of days. They are the ultimate grab-n-go for me at this time: caps remain attached so I just pick them up, hang them around my neck while heading out the back door and I'm out observing in under 5 seconds (7 if I want to bring a chair). Not even any time lost getting them out of their case since they don't come with a case.
Focus remains accurate from one session to the next - I haven't touched focus since I was out looking at tight double stars as mentioned higher up in this thread.
I've watched the ISS pass by a few times the last couple of nights. I can see a definite shape; looks a bit like two things joined together, especially well seen during "sunset" when the ISS becomes red and less bright. These 15x60 are also good to track the ISS after it has passed into the Earth's shadow, when it is much fainter (mag 8 or so?).
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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That's interesting! I've never thought to look for the ISS but will now!
Question Mark.... And I don't know how much you investigated the Nobilems before buying. But what have you (or anyone) heard about Docter upgrading the coatings on them (or any other of their bins)over the years? Or anything else like EP's?
Thanks again and its great to hear you are enjoying them!
Oh, one last thing Mark.... How close is ser# T1601xxx to your bins?
Edited by CLRobles (09/15/09 02:25 PM)
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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CL, the serial number starts with F1600xxx.
The model I bought is a brand new version with magnesium alloy housing. It is therefore a bit lighter than the previous version. There was a small scale trial production of this version in 2007, which had just sold out when I ordered one. Docter wanted to sell their existing stock of the previous version before re-starting production of the magnesium version. As of July 2009 the magnesium verion is being produced again. I don't believe the older version is still in production.
The following changes were described to me in correspondence with the dealer end of 2007, but I have of course not been able to verify any of this. Compared to the previous version, the new magnesium alloy version is said to have:
- lighter weight
- stiffer dioptre setting so that it stays put
- stiffer hinge connecting the two barrels
- reduced play in the eyepiece position, resulting in more constant focus position and more pinpoint star images on axis
- improved glass types (without further details)
- improved coatings
- more colour-neutral image
- higher light transmission
- new paint on the inside, resulting in less reflections or glare and higher contrast
- new rubber armouring without plasticizers or other nasty chemicals.
None of this is described in the documentation that comes with the binocular, nor on the Docter website (last time I checked). The only indication is a sticker on the cardboard box it ships in - see attached image.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Wow! That would be a complete overhaul of the bin! They were fantastic before so if they indeed do all of this I would really love to do some A-b ing with the now defunct Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT and the Swaro 15x56.... They were the two that were always used side by side with the Docters out here and they were better but NOT by much
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Mark, Have you had a chance to compare these Docters to the Fuji 16x70's ?
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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No sorry, I don't have the Fuji 16x70.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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