pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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What two spec types would you choose if you could only pick two Astronomy Binoculars, one for hand held use and one for mounted use??
I am going by basic magnification & aperture numbers knowing we each have preferences for eye relief, exit pupil FoV etc and assuming BaK 4 porro prism & FMC, etc.
As for brands, up to you to express it.
Mounted: 20x80 or 15x70 (WP Triplet) Obie's, Garrett
Hand held: 10x50 or 8x56 Obie's, Orin, Garrett (the hubby says 9x60 for his hand held choice, Orion's).
Fujinon is the wish list someday brand to get.
Hopefully this thread will help out some folks trying to figure out what to buy and having a hand held and mount are a good idea.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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daniel_h
sage
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 485
Loc: VIC, Australia
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I agreew ith the 15x70 garrett SS, for handheld i think a roof - like 8x42 regal giving a nice wide view with little weight
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regal 10x42, 10x50ultras, 15x70 ultras, 20x80
Oly e-500, vixen 100/1000 with 0.965"/1.25",
2 old sturdy tripods for the bins (slik & velbon)
zeiss f5.6 refractor/lens (under construction)
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beachchairbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 509
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Hand held the Canon 15x 50IS and great grab and go as well.
On the tripod - Celestron 8" SCT - with the right tripod and mount ir's another grab and go.
Beachchairbill
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Fuji 16x70 mounted and a fuji 10x50 work well for me
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Clear skies
Rich
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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I would pick 8x42 as the do-everything bino, but still prefer the old timey 7x50 for handheld skywatching. You can get a used 7x50 FMT-SX for $300 if you watch the used astro gear sites. It will ruin your eyes forever, unfortunately. Like Gollum and the Ring, you know? But you might find 3+ pounds uncomfortable to hold. Then, from comments in this forum not personal experience, consider a Vixen Foresta porro for a 7x50, and either the Nikon EX, or the best Pentax Porro, for a lightweight 10x50. But I personally think 10x is too much to just stand there flatfooted and hand hold, it needs bracing, or a comfortable seated position to enjoy.
Mounted, golly, the sky's the limit, but the top 15x70 Garretts and Oberwerks get high praise, and are cheaper than the 16x70 Fujinon, which I use and love, but not unreservedly, as I do the 7x50.
Ron
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Loren Toole
super member
Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 124
Loc: New Mexico USA
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I attended the Texas Star Party in 2007, and brought only two binos (no scope), a pair of Fuji 10x70s and Oberwerk 15x60s. This was a choice forced on me by space limitations, I could have substituted a lower mag choice for the 15x60s (7x35, 8x40), but decided the higher mag was my best fit.
Also brought a monopod with a tilting pan head for the 15x60s.
This turned out to be a great combo, very versatile under dark skies of west Texas. I used the Fujis for wide sweeps of the Milky Way and generally to find fainter objects, the Obies were valuable for zoom-ins to selected objects. I used the combination for 5 days of consecutive viewing and concluded, under these skies, the pair was near optimal for me. In fact, I'll do this combo again when I return to TSP in 2010.
Now, for less than optimal skies such as my normal suburban LP, I would probably choose 8x40s and the 15x60s. The exit pupil in 10x70s just doesn't get used as effectively in skies with limiting mags of 3.5-4.5. TSP on the other hand typically exhibited limiting mags of better than 6.0.
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My binos: 6x30, 7x35, 10x70, 15x60, 20x80
My scopes: 5"f5 newt, 4"f5 TV Genesis, 4"f5 TV 101, 3"f9, 3"f5
ARCO OBSERVATORY 7200'
Edited by Loren Toole (08/24/09 07:51 AM)
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Joe Ogiba
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 4071
Loc: NJ USA
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BT80-45 or RA-88-SA mounted
Canon 15x50 or 10x42L handheld
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Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Shelley,
I look back at your original question and I see you sugessted a few choices that might add up to a total expenditure of about $400 to $600 for mounted binocular, mount and handheld binocular.
Some of the suggestions that have been made in reply to your question might add up to a total of $2000 to $2500.
What is a valid and reasonable range of total cost for replies that will be meaningful to you?
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Quote:
Shelley,
I look back at your original question and I see you sugessted a few choices that might add up to a total expenditure of about $400 to $600 for mounted binocular, mount and handheld binocular.
Some of the suggestions that have been made in reply to your question might add up to a total of $2000 to $2500.
What is a valid and reasonable range of total cost for replies that will be meaningful to you?
edz
The 400-700 range.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 4.4°fov $399
Bogen 3011 tripod with 3130 head $185
Garrett TWP 20x80 3.2° $349
or Oberwerk Standard 20x80 3.2° $299
Bogen 3011 tripod with 3130 head $185
maximum I would put on this tripod
along with one from below
Pentax PCF WP 10x50 5.0° $180
Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50 5.3° $175
Nikon Action Ex 10x50 6.1° $150
or
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 6.3° $149
Nikon Action Ex 8x40 8.1° $124
or
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 6.3° $149
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Quote:
Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 4.4°fov $399
Bogen 3011 tripod with 3130 head $185
Garrett TWP 20x80 3.2° $349
or Oberwerk Standard 20x80 3.2° $299
Bogen 3011 tripod with 3130 head $185
maximum I would put on this tripod
along with one from below
Pentax PCF WP 10x50 5.0° $180
Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50 5.3° $175
Nikon Action Ex 10x50 6.1° $150
or
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 6.3° $149
Nikon Action Ex 8x40 8.1° $124
or
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 6.3° $149
Thank you Edz, more to mull over!
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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buddhafrog
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Ulsan, South Korea
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I just bought the Oberwerk 20x80 with the Nikon Action EX 10x50 for my first two pairs, hoping that they are a nice balance for each other.
I almost got the 8x56 Obie's instead of the Nikon's. I think it would actually be slightly nicer combination. However, I love the durability and warrenty of the Nikon's. My family travels a lot, and with the Nikon's I'll be able to take them with me without worry. I'm so eager to use them in the blackness of remote pacific islands.
I'm a newbie and chose mine through advice here, so don't take my advice as experience, just as one who has been listening.
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BobinKy
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 1683
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Pinkkid...
Now that we got your budget on the table, here are my suggestions for you.
8x40
You live close to the wine country, coast, and probably have some children coming along (who may get into spectator sports)--all of which suggests you may have good reason to observe during the daytime, as well as the night skies. A nice light 8x40 (under two pounds) will make a nice handheld binocular. Go with either roof or porro design. Porro will give you a 3-d effect, the roof will give you comfort. Try them both out.
15x70
Forget the 20x80 for now. A 15x70 will give you plenty of nice views of the night skies. At 5 pounds you will be able to lay in a chaise lounge with arm supports or prop your elbows on a car roof as you learn the night sky.
Tripod & Mount
Hold off until you gain some experience with the binoculars and know for sure the kind of objects you want to observe. This may affect the type of tripod and mount (height, weight, movement, etc.).
Just my thoughts.
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Bob
38°N
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Quote:
I just bought the Oberwerk 20x80 with the Nikon Action EX 10x50 for my first two pairs, hoping that they are a nice balance for each other.
I almost got the 8x56 Obie's instead of the Nikon's. I think it would actually be slightly nicer combination. However, I love the durability and warrenty of the Nikon's. My family travels a lot, and with the Nikon's I'll be able to take them with me without worry. I'm so eager to use them in the blackness of remote pacific islands.
I'm a newbie and chose mine through advice here, so don't take my advice as experience, just as one who has been listening.
Hey, your combo sounds good. I have held and looked thru those Nik's and for ME, they were too soft on the egdes and did not hold well in my small hands and eye set. But that;s me for that brand.
Let us know how they both do once ya get to looking!'
have fun!
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
I just bought the Oberwerk 20x80 with the Nikon Action EX 10x50 for my first two pairs, hoping that they are a nice balance for each other.
I almost got the 8x56 Obie's instead of the Nikon's. I think it would actually be slightly nicer combination. However, I love the durability and warrenty of the Nikon's. My family travels a lot, and with the Nikon's I'll be able to take them with me without worry. I'm so eager to use them in the blackness of remote pacific islands.
I'm a newbie and chose mine through advice here, so don't take my advice as experience, just as one who has been listening.
Hey, your combo sounds good. I have held and looked thru those Nik's and for ME, they were too soft on the egdes and did not hold well in my small hands and eye set. But that;s me for that brand.
Let us know how they both do once ya get to looking!'
have fun!
good thoughts Bob, thanks!
I do have some daytime bino's that we use here and there, some compact one I use the most really for yes kids games etc.
We have this old Bushnell Telescope I dug out from the graves and set it up the over the weekend... dang, a small optical and FoV and using the extra eye pieces and mags still didn't satisfy. Way too small of everything. No fun at trying to find stuff then when you do find it it's teeny tiny and hard to focus. It was our childhood telescope though.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Hey, your combo sounds good. I have held and looked thru those Nik's and for ME, they were too soft on the egdes and did not hold well in my small hands and eye set. But that;s me for that brand.
Then try these, by far the three out of those I suggested that have the sharpest fov almost all the way across the view, and in combination with being compact.
Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50 5.3° $175
or
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 6.3° $149
or
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 6.3° $149
altough close set eyes would eliminate this one.
If narrow IPD becomes an issue, I would suggest instead
Vixen Foresta 7x50 7.1° but higher at $259, athough higher quality, the narrowest IPD of all these and probably the best of these small binocs mentioned here.
If you decide to go that high in price for your small hand held then I would also suggest
Zen Ray Summit 10x42 roof prism 5.8° sale price $179
or
Bushnell Legend 8x42 roof prism 6.5° $249
both quite compact, reasonably narrow IPD, and decently sharp, with the ZRS the better sharp fov of the two.
Edited by EdZ (08/24/09 04:28 PM)
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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darn good thing it is slow at work now! LOL
--------------------
Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Quote:
Then try these, by far the three out of those I suggested that have the sharpest fov almost all the way across the view, and in combination with being compact.
Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50 5.3° $175
or
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 6.3° $149
or
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 6.3° $149
altough close set eyes would eliminate this one.
If narrow IPD becomes an issue, I would suggest instead
Vixen Foresta 7x50 7.1° but higher at $259, athough higher quality, the narrowest IPD of all these and probably the best of these small binocs mentioned here.
If you decide to go that high in price for your small hand held then I would also suggest
Zen Ray Summit 10x42 roof prism 5.8° sale price $179
or
Bushnell Legend 8x42 roof prism 6.5° $249
both quite compact, reasonably narrow IPD, and decently sharp, with the ZRS the better sharp fov of the two.
hmm.... where did you find the 10x42 Zen Ray Summit for $179?????
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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directly from Zen Ray. It was on sale for quite some time. But as I look at the Zen Ray website, I see they don't even list it anymore. Now you have to buy the Zen Ray HD for $219 or $224.
BUT they still show the sale, take note:
"For a limited time only, please use coupon code "SAVE20" during check out to save 20% off our already low price on any waterproof binoculars (no limit, while supply lasts)"
edit. the ZRS 10x42 that I own is the HD.
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (08/25/09 06:38 AM)
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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OK, I was at their website and saw the $224 tag.
thank you again.
Oh... 11x56 these would be for the hubby hand held rather than the 9x60 he seems to want. They sure seem like a good 'balanced' set with 6degree FoV 5mm EP 19mm irelief 2.25lbs and only $99 bucks for Garrett(Gemini Series)
Just curious... he likes to be a little different and not have the normal thing that 'everyone' has.
Just found this Ed that you wrote up about 11x56:
I am fairly certain these 56mm models are identical to the Oberwerk 56mm models. These have an actual effective aperture of 48mm due to improperly sized internal baffles and prism stops.
There are several models of 10x50mm binoculars that have equal or larger effective apertures than these 56mm models. Pentax PCF WP 10x50, Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50, Nikon Action Ex 10x50 all have equal or larger effective aperture than the 56mm model. So for instance, if you were to compare the 11x56 to the Nikon AE 10x50, you would be comparing ~11x48 to ~10x48. If you compare it to the Pentax you would have the ~11x48 vs the Pentax 10x49.
If you really want 56mm of aperture, you would be better off buying a 63mm or 60mm binocular. The Oberwerk Mariner 10x60 will get you up to 52mm of aperture. The Celestron Skymaster 9x63 will give you 57mm of aperture."
10x60 Ober Mariner a little less $ than the Celestron or Orn 9x63's.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
Edited by pinkkid (08/24/09 11:23 PM)
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Just found this Edz on the 11x56 you wrote:
"I am fairly certain these 56mm models are identical to the Oberwerk 56mm models. These have an actual effective aperture of 48mm due to improperly sized internal baffles and prism stops.
There are several models of 10x50mm binoculars that have equal or larger effective apertures than these 56mm models. Pentax PCF WP 10x50, Leupold Wind River Mesa 10x50, Nikon Action Ex 10x50 all have equal or larger effective aperture than the 56mm model. So for instance, if you were to compare the 11x56 to the Nikon AE 10x50, you would be comparing ~11x48 to ~10x48. If you compare it to the Pentax you would have the ~11x48 vs the Pentax 10x49.
If you really want 56mm of aperture, you would be better off buying a 63mm or 60mm binocular. The Oberwerk Mariner 10x60 will get you up to 52mm of aperture. The Celestron Skymaster 9x63 will give you 57mm of aperture."
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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that is all correct.
I did not mention the 10x60 Mariner because
it is quite heavy
it has a minimum IPD of 61mm, quite wide by any standard
it's close to a 10x50
I've tested the 8x56, and I can assure you, any of the 10x50s or 8x40s or 10x42s I recommended are a better binocular.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
Edited by EdZ (08/25/09 05:38 AM)
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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well what do you know... we have a pair neat old pair FMC Tasco 8x40's that were my husband's grandfathers... his parents dug them out yesterday and they are in x-lent condition and worked VERY well last night! Pretty cool!
Ordered GO 20x80 TWP and 12x60 LW and 10x50 LW. Still looking at other 10x50's such as those Leupolds and Zen Ray's for my personal pair. Zach at Garrett's customer service was one of the best I've experienced... Greco at Skiboardsonline.com is also one of the best! That type of service & price keeps me coming back.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
Edited by pinkkid (08/26/09 11:59 AM)
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Zach at Garrett's customer service
Zach is customer service, stockboy, order taker, delivery, accountant, troubleshooter and Oh yeh, Owner.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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I gathered that! Good guy, hard to come by these days sometimes.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Wow, I just had my eyes checked for normal routine exam and had My Dr check my pupil size in dark conditions... I'm still going strong at near 7mm! I was surprised to hear that. Dr said in between 6-7mm but closer to 7.
So now 7x50's, 7x42, or 9x60/63, 11x70 10x60 the list goes on are looking optimal for my personal choice pair with our dark skies.
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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pinkkid
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 32
Loc: Paso Robles, CA
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Just in case anyone was wondering or curious about what I bought, my signature tells. Not included are the mounts(Garrett Series 2000 Grip-Action Monopod and Garrett series 3000 Tripod + Pan Head).
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Pink Skies at Night.. Sailors Delight
Red Skies at Morning... Sailors Take Warning
Nikon Action Extreme All Terrain 8x40
Garrett Optical Gemini 10x50LW
Orion Savannah 10x50
Garrett Optical Gemini 12x60LW
Garrett Optical Gemini 20x80LW
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GlenM
Vendor
Reged: 05/20/07
Posts: 1742
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Congratulations on the new binos and mounts. I'm going to sit back now and watch the signature lines grow and grow 
Clear Skies.
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Glen
www.lyraoptic.co.uk
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