Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Just received the e-mail fron Orion announcing these binos. I wonder if these are similar to the older Apogees or are a 90-degree version of the newer model sold by Garret and Markus Ludes? I hope the link works.
Mike Rapchak Jr.
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=binocular_astronomy/~pcategory=binocular_astronomy/~product_id=09566?atc=pbino09&id=hbino09
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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I couldn't see a picture of the instrument itself on the Orion web page linked to, but did note in the specifications list that the objectives are f/6. If the pentaprisms and Porro II groups are of similar dimensions as found in other 70/88/100mm RA binos, I wonder if they will offer full-aperture performance?
For example, an RA88 (objectives near f/6-ish, if I recall) I once collimated works at an effective aperture of only 77-78mm. Such loss of efficiency is maddening, especially considering the excess mass necessary to house what is a too-fast (and effectively too-large) pair of objectives for the employed prism system. Not that I'm saying this, too will be the case, but I do wonder....
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Glenn,
Ths picture didn't display? Hmm. These look like the Apogee RA types except they're silver.
Mike Rapchak Jr.
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Robert A.
sage
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 294
Loc: Milwaukee, WI Northern USA
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I have Firefox web browser with flash blocker. I could not see the picture until I clicked on the field that holds the object.
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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I use both Firefox and Internet Explorer. I may have posted the link via Firefox (can't recall at the moment). Here's the same link posted via IE. See if there is any difference.
Mike Rapchak Jr.
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~category_id=eles09/~pcategory=eles09/~product_id=09566
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3220
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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No difference to me using IE7; both links show the image.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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One big difference is that the binocular Orion is selling uses standard 1.25" eyepieces. It's pictured with a pair of Plossl eyepieces. The focusers look shorter than the ones on my 88RA bino. Hopefully this version corrects some of the issues seen in the 88mm Apogee's.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Mark,
Glad to hear it. BTW, I'm using IE8. Don't know if this makes any difference to others.
Mike R.
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Mike Rapchak
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/17/06
Posts: 568
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Peter,
Good point. And I hope you are right. That's a lot of money for a bino with the RA88's shortcomings.
Mike R.
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edwincjones
Postmaster
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 5671
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Quote:
Peter,
That's a lot of money for a bino with the RA88's shortcomings.
Mike R.
but
-these are $1200
-OB 100 45BT is $1800
-miyauchi 100s were $2000-3500
-kowa highlanders are >$5000 with eps
-vixen 125mms are $4000
-new 150s are $4500+
-fuji 150 are $6000 without mount
edj
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art6
journeyman
Reged: 02/19/09
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Peter,
Good point. And I hope you are right. That's a lot of money for a bino with the RA88's shortcomings.
Mike R.
Hi Mike,
Could you please explain what the RA88's shortcomings are? Thanks.
-- Art
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re. the RA88. As measured by myself, it works at an effective aperture of about 78mm. This is due to the combination of Pentaprism and Porro II being unable to fully field the on-axis light cone from the objectives. So one is paying a hefty weight penalty given the useful aperture.
Moreover, I was less than impressed by the use of compressible O-rings in the rotation mechanism about which the prism housings rotate for IPD adjustment. I wonder if this is still the case?
Lastly, the tortuous collimation procedure (if the user has the patience of Job and decides to take on this almost Sysiphean task) make for a less than ideal bino, in my opinion.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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Well, the RA88SA has some pro's and con's.
The pro's include low cost for an RA binocular, ease of viewing when the observer is in an upright position, interchangable eyepieces for changing the mag.
The con's include weight (16 lbs), proprietary eyepieces, clipped exit pupil reducing effective aperture and less than perfect optics.
They were styled to look like a Miyauchi binocular, unfortunately they weighed twice as much and didn't have the optics the Miyauchi's had. Of course the price was about 1/3 that of the RA Miyauchi.
This Orion version has made standard ep's usable which is a plus. If the prism issues were improved, the weight reduced it might be a reasonable buy. It's overwhelming advantage comes from being a RA design which works very well for astronomy.
Quality 4" objectives would be nice, but the nicer they are the higher the price.
We'll have to wait for some first hand reports before we know if it's worth the money.
As far as the collimation issues go, I know first hand what Glenn is talking about. The RA88SA could be classified as user-unfriendly in this regard.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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The Orion 100mm RA binos weigh a bit over 14lbs. This is a definate improvement over the Apogee 88mm RA bino's at about 16 lbs.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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What is this "user unfriendly" collimation convention of the RA88? I'm curious how different mfgrs. approach the collimation issue.
My only experience is with the Miyauchi and I don't know if the Chinese copies of this design use their prism tilt methods.
The Miyauchi prism tilt screws are located under the eyepiece turrets. The turret must be removed/replaced for each adjustment iteration. A bit tedious, but it doesn't really take very long.
Thanks
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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Rich, the RA88 is similar to your Miyauchi. I find disassembling the focuser/turret cover to gain access to the colimation adjustment screws inconvienient at best. My description of "user-unfriendly" was perhaps an overstatement. I forgot to add the  to that post.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Thanks, Peter, for the confirmation.
I had to adjust the Saturns once after I received them and just recently adjusted a friend's pair. Maybe it's getting easier with practice!
The high mag. eyepieces with the Miyas really make miscollimation apparent, though. Being able to user collimate is a requirement, IMO, even if it is a bit of a hassle.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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kfred
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 2158
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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I been looking into getting 70-100mm BT's. These may fit the bill; now I just need to talk the CFO into letting me get them.
Fred
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Trixie
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beachchairbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 509
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Mike,
Keep in mind that not every 1.25 ep's fit into the Garrett BT 100/45. I would think that this is the case with the Orion as well.
Beachchairbill
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RobertPL
member
Reged: 03/04/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Austin, TX
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I have been considering a similar 45 degree bino sold by APM America. Here is the link:
http://apmamerica.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=10&products_id=64
Anybody have any experience with these? Are they of full effective aperture?
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Fujinon 16x70 FMT-SX
Canon 10x30 IS
Orion MegaViews 30x80
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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These binos which can accept standard 1.25" eyepieces should have specified where the focal surface lies with respect to the fully-racked-in focuser barrel's top surface. This would allow the possibility to determine *in advance* just what eyepieces one could use.
If the focal surface lies a bit too far down the barrel (i.e., not far behind the prism/optical window), this would limit the user to only those eyepieces having their field stops located relatively close to the bottom of their own barrels. In other words, shorter f.l. eyepieces, as well as some of those employing optics ahead of the field stop, may not be useable because they can't be racked inward far enough to get their field stops to the focal surface.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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mtb54703
sage
Reged: 11/12/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Eau Claire, WI
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For those who can't get to the image on the website, here's a link that appeared in the email announcement.
http://site.starrynightstore.com/OrionEmails/09_01_09_Countdown_4/09_01_09_Top_10_no4_09.jpg
Orion's website uses flash player, so if you don't have the plugin installed and/or enabled, you won't get an image for any of the products.
http://www.telescope.com/control/product/~product_id=09566
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18" F/4.11 AstroSystems Telekit under construction
Meade 12" Lightbridge
Garrett 100mm F/5.3 45º Binocular Telescope
Vixen Foresta 7x50
Chippewa Valley Astronomical Society
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Prof M
member
Reged: 07/26/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Southwest Utah
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I just got an e-mail ad from Orion pricing the BT 100 at $1199. Weren't these only $699 a year ago? I may be crazy, but... 
Keith
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Jay_Bird
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 959
Loc: Nevada 36N 115W
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You may not be crazy, but you are thinking of pricing for the 70mm version.
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