94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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I own many pairs of binoculars, I use them all for astronomy purposes, and before tonight never really appreciated the "waterproof" feature. I mean what did I care if they were waterproof, I don't stargaze in the rain, and haven't found many(any) opportunities for terrestrial observing in the rain.
Doing some binocular cleaning tonight I made an unpleasent discovery. Several of my non waterproof binoculars have dew residue on the inside of the objective lens. I really hate dew, and it is a major problem an my local dark site. I have already taken my C6 SCT apart once to clean residue on the inside of the corrector lens and after my last trip, I will probably have to do it again. But I never imagined this would be a problem for semi sealed binoculars. I guess I was wrong. I wouldn't even know where to begin to take the binoculars apart, or if its even possible. None of them are horrible, just enough that you can see residue with a bright flashlight. None of the waterproof models have any residue inside.
So, on the list of important features for me in the future, WATERPROOF will be #1...
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Sealed airtight and purged with dry gas is the best way to keep the innards dry. If there's even the smallest 'leak', over a period of weeks and months there will be a gradual exchange of air, always striving toward equalization.
So your bino, which might spend most of its time indoors, will tend to fill with air having the average moisture content of your house. When they cool down sufficiently under a night sky, the cooling air within the bino causes the *relative* humidity to increase to 100% and condensation then forms.
Now you know why new binos tend to have a packet of dessicant in the carton....
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 971
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Another possibility , which I use, even with some well sealed binoculars, is to put them into a quality shipping/storage case with o-ring seals, or the best approximation to such a box which one can find and afford, and drop in several bags of silica gel or other dessicant.
I make up my own dessicant bags, using double bagging with women's nylon hosiery or panty hose, filled with two or three golfballs volume of silica gel. I prefer the silica gel which is indicating: It changes color from blue to clear or yellow, as it absorbs water vapor. One can see the color through the mesh of the hosiery.
I attempted to sell such cases, the Hardigg, used, a few months ago, in the sales department of this forum. But it gets crowded, and ads drop out of sight.
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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I guess maybe the question I need to ask what should I do with the binoculars once they dew over the objective? I never really gave it much thought before, once they are dewed over and are no longer useable, I usually just put the lens caps back on, and put them in their soft case. After loading the car, driving to the dark site, setting up, observing, taking everything down, loading the car, driving home, unloading the car, after all that, once I get home and get everything inside, I have little motivation left for some special procedure to prevent this. I would rather just only take waterproof binoculars and not have to worry about it.
That said, I am still curious if there is a way to prevent the residue from forming. I can't buy dew heaters for every binocular, or make dew shields for every pair either, just not practical. So preventing the dew in the first place is not very likely, especially at the dark site I go to. It is like right next to a river.
How much time does a person have before the residue forms? If I could throw the binoculars in an air tight container the next day with some dessicant bags after I get some sleep, I could probably handle that.. Will the residue come off now weeks/months later if I put the binoculars in an air tight container now with some dessicant?
BTW......To make sure this is perfectly clear. When I say dew residue, I mean dry looking streaks on the glass. I don't mean the binoculars appear "wet" inside in any way shape or form. In other words, dried residue, not wet residue.. 
Ken
Edited by 94bamf (09/15/09 02:15 AM)
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Although no one observes in the rain, a fully waterproof bino is a big plus for astronomy, as you have found.
I have a chinese non waterproof bino that has been used in very dewy conditions and very cold conditions (they have had frost forming on the objectives several times) and sure enough, they now have residue inside like yours. I have found no way to protect them from this and i'm sure one day before long they will have fungal growth on the inside of the objectives.
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Clear skies
Rich
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
once they are dewed over and are no longer useable, I usually just put the lens caps back on, and put them in their soft case.
This is the mistake you made, IMHO. The conventional wisdom is to leave them open until the dew evaporates. Next time, just put them in your car open. By the time you get home they will have dried up.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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I agree, always store the binos caps off at room temp until they have dried completely.
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Clear skies
Rich
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BobinKy
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 1683
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Quote:
I agree, always store the binos caps off at room temp until they have dried completely.
My rule is minute-for-minute. Ever how long I have the binoculars outside observing, that is how long I let them dry inside without the caps. Maybe this is excessive, but so far I have not had any problems.
. . .
To clean up the glasses, you might send them to off to someone who does optics repair. The last time I checked, this costs around $100 per pair.
. . .
Buy Fujinon Polaris models in the future. 
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Bob
38°N
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daniel_h
sage
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 485
Loc: VIC, Australia
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you could make pvc dew shields for the bins, lining with felt or similar -you could also wrap dew heater around them if you have scope power. take a portable hair dryer maybe
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regal 10x42, 10x50ultras, 15x70 ultras, 20x80
Oly e-500, vixen 100/1000 with 0.965"/1.25",
2 old sturdy tripods for the bins (slik & velbon)
zeiss f5.6 refractor/lens (under construction)
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4947
Loc: MA
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To remove internal condensation, put the bins where they can be gently warmed for several hours. I've put optics on top of a residential water heater for this purpose. You can also shine an incandescent light on them to warm them up. You want to get them up to ~45C, just warm to the touch.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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harbinjer
super member
Reged: 12/17/08
Posts: 127
Loc: Southeastern Minnesota
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A related question: what's the best way to get dew spots off the outside of the lenses? Cotton swabs lightly moistened with alcohol? Distilled water? Camera lens cleaner?
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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Purosol Lens Cleaner is the best stuff I have ever used. It works like magic, no streaks, etc..
PUROSOL
Good stuff
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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Quote:
Quote:
once they are dewed over and are no longer useable, I usually just put the lens caps back on, and put them in their soft case.
This is the mistake you made, IMHO. The conventional wisdom is to leave them open until the dew evaporates. Next time, just put them in your car open. By the time you get home they will have dried up.
I guess I am just anal, but I hate leaving the caps off for fear of damage/something hitting the objective(especially in the car) and for the dust that would accumulate pretty quickly. I did buy a dew remover gun/hair dryer from Orion thats in the mail, so atleast I will now have an option for removing dew in the field.. Simple fact is none of the binoculars that have this problem are worth anything. The most expensive ones were $109, so I doubt I will be sending them for cleaning at $100 a pair.. Live and learn I guess..
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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Quote:
To remove internal condensation, put the bins where they can be gently warmed for several hours. I've put optics on top of a residential water heater for this purpose. You can also shine an incandescent light on them to warm them up. You want to get them up to ~45C, just warm to the touch.
I guess it is my own negligence, because after I get back from a trip, I don't even look at the binoculars to see condensation inside. As cloudy as it always is now, I might go a week or longer before I even observe again. What about when it dries and leaves residue on the lens? Is there any method by heating, etc, that would remove a dried residue? I figure once is dries you are out of luck, and it would require disassembly for cleaning. I would love to hear about some other black magic method to remove the residue though..  
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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billwright
newbie
Reged: 07/22/09
Posts: 3
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Just to be warned the BLUE "indicating" silica gel is bad stuff. Listed as Hazardous Material in the UK as it contains Cobalt Chloride.
They have replaced it with ORANGE "indicating" silica gel that does not contain this Cobalt Chloride. So for those of your (including the above poster) you might want to find this Orange Indicating product instead of the blue.
Here is a site that sells the orange:
http://www.silicagelpackets.com/indicating-silica-gel-packets//
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leo9
super member
Reged: 06/17/08
Posts: 123
Loc: Western Oregon, USA
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Warning about cleaning. Be careful what cleaning cloth you use. I have seen numerous front lenses ruined by over-aggressive cleaning, or using "soft" cleaning cloths that are abrasive (even a cotton t-shirt is too harsh! believe it, please)
I suggest using lens tissue intended for photographic lenses such as these:
Nikon lens cleaning kit
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Pentax WCP II 8x40 & 20x60
Nikon AE 10x50
Trico SkyWindow
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"If it's worth doing, it's worth over-doing."
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 971
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Have you tried Odorless Mineral Spirits (Home Depot)?
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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Quote:
Have you tried Odorless Mineral Spirits (Home Depot)?
Me?
How and what would I use it for?
Thanks
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 971
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Lens cleaning, in general. Not sure about its effect on water spots, as I avoid those. But in general lens cleaning, it does not leave water spots. I use breath and microfiber for water spots.
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94bamf
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/15/08
Posts: 722
Loc: Kansas City,Mo
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I can't say I have ever tried mineral spirits. I had tried numerious lens cleaning solutions that come in different kits. I have also tried iso alcohol/distilled water, etc. All left streaks, and sometimes left the lens dirtier than when I started.. Ever since I got Purosol, I have had no desire to try anything else because it works great. I use 3M microfiber lens cleaning cloths. Really impressed with them also.
Thanks for the suggestion though.
Ken
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Telescopes:
Celestron C6 SCT on CG4 mount
Skywatcher 8 inch F/5 Newt on a GEM
Celestron 8 inch Starhopper Dob
Celestron Oynx 80ED
Celestron C130 Mak
Celestron C102HD
Binoculars:
Nikon 7x35 Action
Nikon 7x50 Action
Zen Ray Summit 10x42
Celestron 10x42 Noble
Orion 10x50 Scenix
Celestron 10x50 Noble
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II
Celestron 15x70 Skymaster
Oberwerk 20x60
Zhumell 20x80
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