CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Has there been a comprehensive evaluation between the best 7x50's out there?
How do these 7x50's stack up against each other in several areas - Overall quality of build, level of optical quality, collector/resale value....
Nikon ProStar
Fuji FMTR
Zeiss B/GA T* Classic
Docter Nobilem
Am I forgetting any? Also, how do these poro's compare to the roofs? Say a Swarovski SLC 7x50? Is there a clear difference between the poro's and the roof's?
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Somebody's gotta have deep pockets to have all those in posession to do a review. probably why we'll never see a review comparing all those.
I've reviewed a number of 7x50 porros, but never wrote the final piece to my Small Binocular Series.
I have done minireviews or posted technical measures in this forum on these 7x50s
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
Captain's Storm King (Swift Mark II) 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED
Nikon ProStar 7x50
Vixen Foresta 7x50
Captain's Helmsman 7x50
Some of the info is probably in the tables included in the Minireviews - Small Binoc Series
Nikon ProStar 7x50 far outclasses the other 7x50s, in fact far outclasses most any other binocular. William Optic 7x50 ED & Vixen Foresta 7x50 fill out the top three.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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nunciusaustralis
super member
Reged: 09/25/09
Posts: 100
Loc: Rio de janeiro, Brazil
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Yesh i just got an old nikon from my uncle. Its much better than all i ever saw.
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Nuncius Australis
70mm celestron EQ
9x50 finderscope
15X80mm binocular
20mm e 10mm k eye pieces
2xomni barlow
www.nunciusaustralis.blogspot.com
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Why, the Zen-Ray, of course!
Hi CL,
I can't give any comparisons with other 7x50s (except my first binocular, a $50 Swift Aerolite, single coated but rugged as all get out, it is literally all scarred up and dented but still reasonably collimated), but can attest that the Fujinon is certainly a fine binocular, compared to any other binocular that I have ever looked through.
Some years back local curmudgeon BillC did a review of astronomy binos in Sky and Telescope, and thought the Prostar edged it out with its flatter field. I'd agree the edge sharpness is nothing to brag about, and I notice CA in harsh light, but, basically the view is knockout. Clarity, color saturation, brightness, view comfort, build quality, I don't see how could be beat.
Ron
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Simon S
sage
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 391
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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I would recommend the Jenoptem 7x50 with the later coatings. I have no experience with modern optics to comment otherwise.
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My binocular collection recent first
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/
My binoculars in Alphabetical order http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/sets/72157613812824211/detail/
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Why, the Zen-Ray, of course!
Touché, well done Ron 
Thanks for the responses EdZ, Nuncius Australis, Ron, and Simon....
I knew it was a stab in the dark but I have a local sporting goods store that acually have the Zeiss in stock, new and unused. I also have seen the Nikon, Fuji, and Jenoptems regularly for sale on the net. BobinKy has peeked my interest in this class bin and I tought I might search for a high-end pair?
Simon S, There has been quite a bit of CZJ bins up for auction lately and many look to be in very good condition by highly rated sellers... But, How do you know if your going to get a real CZJ? Most are from Germany and the UK. Almost none from the US...
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mooreorless
Just worried
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 1825
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
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Hi CL, So when are you going to get the Zeiss B/GA T* Classic. I would think this would be an excellent binocular to get for "Overall quality of build, level of optical quality, collector/resale value...." B&H used to list this porro binocular but doesn't show it anymore.
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Regards,Steve M
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BobinKy
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/07
Posts: 1683
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Hi Chuck...
Here is a short discussion on the Zeiss 7x50 Classic
I am in Steve's camp--this appears to be a great porro (however, I have never seen one myself).
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Bob
38°N
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mooreorless
Just worried
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 1825
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
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Adorama shows Nikon Prostar 7x50 back ordered, maybe like the SE series back ordered, B & H says the 7x50 Prostar is discontinued. I thought I remembered that Pinewood had a pair of the Zeiss 7x50 Classic. I would think the price at the local sporting goods store might be high for this Zeiss.
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Regards,Steve M
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Quote:
I would think the price at the local sporting goods store might be high for this Zeiss.
They are asking $1349 for it but I'm pretty sure they have been sitting there for quite a while? This is not the same store that matched prices on the internet for the SE's that I bought but I think I can work them over a bit..... They are NIB and have not been used before But 1349 is too high.
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Pinewood
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 825
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
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Quote:
Hi Chuck...
Here is a short discussion on the Zeiss 7x50 Classic
I am in Steve's camp--this appears to be a great porro (however, I have never seen one myself).
Hello Bob,
I seem to have written my opinion in your link. I have not changed my mind since.
Clear skies,
Arthur
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Bread is not enough. We demand circuses!
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Littlegreenman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 1370
Loc: Southern California
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I've had a pair of the Nikon Prostars and the Zeiss Jena, with later coatings, T* or T3 or whatever they are called. The Nikons are better in many ways. In Nelm 4-5 skies I could see more stars in the Milky Way, more contrast, more spacewalk feel. If I remember right both gave similar FOV, not perfect to the edge but still very good. On both the edge of the FOV is cut-off by a sharp edge, which I prefer over binoculars that fade out to mush.
Ergonomics: the Nikons weigh more which limits hand use after a while.
Around a year ago in daylight I compared the following with someone else:
Zeiss
Miyaichi Binon 5x32
Miyauchi 4" 45 degree with interchangable eyepieces
Canon 10x42 L Image Stabalized.
Compared to all the others the Zeiss had noticeably washed out colors; both of us saw it. Not a real issue for Astronomy, but there.
But, if you could live knowing you did not have the best of the best, but only some darn good binoculars, the Zeiss could be had on the used market for much less than the Nikons. Take precautions buying used that you get something in good condition with no optical defects.
Littlegreenman
Edited by Littlegreenman (10/18/09 02:47 AM)
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Simon S
sage
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 391
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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If you but a CZJ second hand it MUST have a seven digit serial number. Also look at the prism housing screws, they are on the top edge of the binocular as seen in my link here and copies are the opposite side of the curve.
Jenoptom 7x50 genuline
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My binocular collection recent first
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/
My binoculars in Alphabetical order http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/sets/72157613812824211/detail/
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Pinewood
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 825
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
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Quote:
They are asking $1349 for it but I'm pretty sure they have been sitting there for quite a while? This is not the same store that matched prices on the internet for the SE's that I bought but I think I can work them over a bit..... They are NIB and have not been used before But 1349 is too high.
Hello,
The price, six and a half years, ago, was $1,250 for the Zeiss 7x50 BGAT*.
Make sure that it is not an earlier model.
Clear skies,
Arthur Pinewood
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Bread is not enough. We demand circuses!
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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A SARD model 41 7x50 10 degree fov was just sold recently on ebay for a bit more than $1600. I've heard some speak highly of this rare binocular also.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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John F
sage
Reged: 02/16/04
Posts: 383
Loc: Washington State
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For astronomical observing with a 7x50 binocular I serious doubt that the Nikon Prostars can be matched, let along surpassed. However, that binocular (as well as all the other 7x50s) require a really dark sky to perform up to their potential. That's why other alternatives like a high quality 8x42, 8.5x42, 10x42, 8x50 or 10x50 also need to also be seriously considered if you're just looking to get a single binocular in the 42-50mm aperture size range.
However, If you're willing to consider getting two binoculars in that aperture size range, then the 7x50 Nikon Prostar and the 10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX would make an excellent pair plus you can purchase the both of them for less than the cost of a single Leica or Swarovski 10x50 (which are both also excellent binoculars) but they're no better optically than the 10x50 Fujinon FMT-SXs. However, on the plus side, the 10x50 Swarovski SLCs and Leica Ultravids are significantly lighter in weight than the Fujinons so if you plan on using them primarily in hand held mode, then that's a big advantage that the Leica and Swarovki's binoculars have over the Fujinon 10x50s. And even the Zeiss 10x56s are lighter in weight than the Fujis.
After 20 years of experience using many different binoculars (and with many of them being the very best of their types), I've concluded from my actual use patterns (and not my original intent when I bought them) that a 7x, 8x or 8.5x are the only magnifications that I find it productive to hand hold for any length of time. Of course, the IS Canon 10x42s and 15x50s look very attractive but the one time that I tried a pair I could not get used to them and they gave me a headache so that's why I personally can't recommend them. However, there are many other observers who say they work very well for them and do highly recommend them.
John Finnan
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BINOCULARS
Nikon 7x50 Prostar
Swarovski 8.5x42 EL
Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe
Zeiss 15x60 B/GAT
Takahashi 22x60 Astronomer
SCOPES
Questar 3.5-Inch
Tele Vue NP-127 with TV Bino Vue
EYEPIECES
Deep Sky: 31Nagler, 17-13-10-8-6 Ethos
Lunar & Planetary: 16-10-6-4 ZAO-II
Binoviewing: 24Pan,16Nagler, 10ZOA-II,7.5Taks
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Quote:
They are asking $1349 for it but I'm pretty sure they have been sitting there for quite a while? This is not the same store that matched prices on the internet for the SE's that I bought but I think I can work them over a bit..... They are NIB and have not been used before But 1349 is too high.
Hello,
The price, six and a half years, ago, was $1,250 for the Zeiss 7x50 BGAT*.
Make sure that it is not an earlier model.
Clear skies,
Arthur Pinewood
Arthur, I'm going to bet this pair is going be several years old? Has there been much or any improvement in the optical quality of the Zeiss over the past half dozen years?
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CLRobles
member
Reged: 06/26/09
Posts: 22
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John F, I'm sure you are right on here with your recommendation. But I currently own several 10x42's(SE,EL,BRF), a 10x40 (Docter Aspherical), a 8x32 (SE) and a 12x50 (SE). BobinKy has raved about his 7x50's as a wonderful all around bin and I really value his opinion so I think I want to add a high-end one to the collection. Still haven't decided which way I want to go???? Zeiss is local but expen$ive! Docter, Nikon, and Fuji all under 1K.... Fuji's by half that.
Simon and greenman, The CZJ with the T coatings actually hold a lot of appeal to me but I just afraid of being fleeced by a over seas dealer? A lot of warnings about fake CZJ's out there so I'm not sure?
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Pinewood
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 825
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
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Hello Mr. Robles,
The 7x50 BGAT* is a ClassiC. The design was set years, ago, with the use of the Zeiss T* coatings. Although it is possible that there has been some slight improvements. If you can get the serial number, check with Zeiss USA, by 'phone or e-mail, who can tell you if it was imported by Zeiss USA, and covered by their warrantee, and who may give you the year of manufacture.
Clear skies,
Arthur
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Bread is not enough. We demand circuses!
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Simon S
sage
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 391
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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Quote:
John F, I'm sure you are right on here with your recommendation. But I currently own several 10x42's(SE,EL,BRF), a 10x40 (Docter Aspherical), a 8x32 (SE) and a 12x50 (SE). BobinKy has raved about his 7x50's as a wonderful all around bin and I really value his opinion so I think I want to add a high-end one to the collection. Still haven't decided which way I want to go???? Zeiss is local but expen$ive! Docter, Nikon, and Fuji all under 1K.... Fuji's by half that.
Simon and greenman, The CZJ with the T coatings actually hold a lot of appeal to me but I just afraid of being fleeced by a over seas dealer? A lot of warnings about fake CZJ's out there so I'm not sure?
I bought mine on eBay, if you follow the simple 7 digit serial number rule it's genuine. Just be sure the prisms are unchipped and optics are clear of fungus etc.
Contact me via srspiers@gmail.com if you want my opinion.
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My binocular collection recent first
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/
My binoculars in Alphabetical order http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/sets/72157613812824211/detail/
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 534
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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Many years ago, I tested the Fujinon 7x50 FMTR's. They are very nice, bright with quite good build quality, but not the best of the breed. For the money they are superb though. The Zeiss 7x50 B/GA are wonderful and very comfortable in use. They are quite sharp and bright, but not as good as the current Zeiss Victory series and it's close current roof prism competitors. In comfort and depth perception I prefer the 7x50 B/GA though, that's why I bought them. I never looked through the Nikon Prostar, should be magnificent. I think you can't really go wong with any of them. Just try them in a shop and see wich you bond the most with and buy those.
Clear skies,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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Klaus_160
member
Reged: 02/17/08
Posts: 13
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You may find this one useful ....
Zeiss vs Fuji
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Littlegreenman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 1370
Loc: Southern California
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I bought my pair of Zeiss 7x50's W/ T3 coatings on eBay from a seller based in Germany. He dealt with a lot of binoculars, and had good ratings. The price was in the mid-range they were selling for. He did add on some charges I never understood, local tax or something (I forget the details), that bumped the price up about $25 or so.
The story on the fake Zeisses is that a company in Japan was making knock-offs. Supposedly they were so good that after Zeiss found out as part of the settlement Zeiss hired the company to make binoculars under the Zeiss name. Great story, but I'm only repeated something I read on some forum.
Holger Merlitz has a page about identifying fake Zeisses.
how to identify fake Zeiss
Littlegreenman
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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I was able to snag a nice pair of ProStars off ebay last week. They live up to their reputation. Nice flat field, field edges coincide with each other and the collimation is perfect vertically and just slightly overlapped horizontally. The area outside the fov is jet black. I tried to induce ghosting or glare by positioning the moon just outside the fov. Nothing, absolutely nothing. The only other binocular I have that surpresses glare/ghosting like this are the Taks.
I've read and understand why people shy away from 7mm exit pupils, especially in suburban locations. Smaller exit pupils darken the surrounding sky. Also some light is wasted and doesn't enter the eye if the exit pupil is larger than the viewers pupil. I live within spitting distance of the local 24hr supermarket so I'm in less than ideal conditions. The sky glow with the prostars is perfectly acceptable to me, YMMV.
These are similar to the Taks in other aspects. There's absolutely no ambiguity about where the best focus is. The quality of the image is very sharp with visually pinpoint stars. I don't know the resolution, but EdZ has a ProStar also and has probably tested it's resolution. Very, very nice.
The only thing I wish they had was a center focus model like the SE series had. Despite this each ocular has oodles of adjustment, without any slop. There's just the right amount of friction to make adjustments easy and stable.
Well worth the price of admission IMHO. 
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
Edited by pcad (10/31/09 04:55 PM)
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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"The sky glow with the prostars is perfectly acceptable to me, YMMV."
I just acquired a fuji 7x50 FMT and after some concern that my skies are not really dark enough to use such a binocular, I am of the same opinion as you Peter. I'm sure they would perform better under very dark skies but I had a wonderful night last weekend with them under reasonably dark skies.
I looked around for a pair of prostars, and came across an offer I couldn't refuse in the fujis. Very enjoyable by day too.
Enjoy them!
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Clear skies
Rich
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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Thanks Rich. Congrats on getting a pair of 7x50 FMT's and I'm happy you're happy too. Like you, I stumbled onto my ProStars that were a "buy now" item with a very, very reasonable price. Bought them immediately before looking at anything else.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
Edited by pcad (10/31/09 04:54 PM)
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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for years I've been measuring off axis field sharpness to the same standard, 600 arcseconds apparent resolution, or if you rather, 600 arcseconds total aberration. That allows me to compare all sizes of binoculars to each other.
What I mean by 600 arcseconds apparent resolution is that the binocular can still see a 60 arcsec pair of stars still resolved at 10 power, or 40 arcsec at 15 power or 30 arcsec at 20 power, etc. Almost without fail, most moderately sized and moderate quality binoculars have approximately 600 arcsecond limit of field sharpness at somewhere between 60% and 75% out from center.
The Nikon Prostar is one of only TWO binoculars that resolved better than 600 arcseconds all the way out to 100% of the field. In other words, even at the edge of the fov, the Nikon Prostar did not have 600 arcseconds of apparent aberration. In fact it has only slightly more than 200 arcseconds total aberration at the very edge of the fov. The only other binocular to share that high honor is the Takahashi Astronomer.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Stop it EdZ, you're making me want to get a pair.
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Clear skies
Rich
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12915
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Bill Cook told anyone listening over 12 years ago that the Nikon ProStars were the best of the bunch in the 7 x 50 class , just a whisker ahead of the Fujinon FMTSX .
He also told us how good the Fujinon 16 x 70 was , and how delightful the centre - focus Nikon SE models were .
Then a couple of years later , Todd Gross echoed the same sentiment about these models , adding the excellence of the Takahashi 22 x 60 and comvenience of the Canon Image Stabilised range to his list of favourites .
That was over 10 years ago , now .
It didn't need more than a few sentences from either author to get the messages across .
Although we've had the benefit of thousands of words of technical test results , as regards the bottom line , it seems nothing much has changed since !
-- oh -- and YES ! -- 7 x 50 binoculars are WONDERFUL instruments for hand - held sky gazing , particularly if the goal is visual PLEASURE !
Kenny
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ronharper
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 1276
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Rich,
Glad you're getting out with the new FMT 7x50. Whether it's the best size and magnification can be debated, but it is a very good binocular, and much fun is to be had. The daytime images are marvelous, but of course you have to deal with the physical beastliness of it. If the sky glow bothers you, at least your eyes are opening up enough to get it. Mine goes a tad deeper than the Zeiss 8x42 FL.
Ron
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Speaking of skyglow... was just out with my Prostar 7x50's- first clear night in some time. The skyglow was murder! Jupiter and the moon had these huge bright halo's in the Prostars that made them totally unuseable. Broke out some 10x50's and the smaller exit pupil just about cleared it up.
Wes
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1590
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi guys,
Yes, Kenny, I purchased a FUJI 7x50 FMT-SX about 12 years ago. I (wanted) the ProStar, but I could not find them at any reasonable cost, anywhere.
I am happy with the FUJIs, but I would love to have compared them to a ProStar. I am happy enough with my choice.
Back then, I went over all of the then-available specs for each. They were within one percent of one another.
I suppose that the decision rests with one's wallet. FYI.
Best regards,
Dave.
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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very true Kenny.
Ron, I read alot of your posts re the Fuji 7x50 and have found them all to be spot on. Althought the 10x50 fmt does eat it alive at night, the 7x50 is in it's own right an excellent bino under the night sky. It's just that the 10x is unbelievable!
Before getting the 7x I had NEVER used a quality 7x50, and I was so pleasantly surprised when I first looked through it by day. Everything is so sharp and the comfort of view was outstanding. I spent about 2 hours that day scanning the Peak district near my home and my eyes never once grew tired or uncomfortable in any way.The long eyerelief and 53 AOV makes seeing and holding the entire FOV a doddle, unlike the 10x50 which can be more difficult in that regard. 7x is a lovely power to handhold too - the difference in jitters between 7 and 10x is huge.
Very,very pleased with it (I had worried when i bought it that I might not have a real use or need for it) but like you say, it's a chunky beast of a bino. I like that at night but in the day it's a hindrance.
I was going to write a comparative review between the 7x and 10x fmt but looking through the archives I read the one you did yourself Ron - and I don't feel I could add anything to it.
Off outside now to enjoy the scenery through a 7x50!
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Clear skies
Rich
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Speaking of skyglow... was just out with my Prostar 7x50's- first clear night in some time. The skyglow was murder! Jupiter and the moon had these huge bright halo's in the Prostars that made them totally unuseable. Broke out some 10x50's and the smaller exit pupil just about cleared it up.
Wes
Wes,
Interesting comments. I usually associate the term "skyglow" with the washed out sky background I see when I use low powered binos with > 6mm exit pupil. I don't recall 7.1 mm exit pupil of my Celestron Nova causing a Halo around the moon and Jupiter. I hope I get a clear night this weekend to give them a try.
I have not used the Nova 7X50 much in recent years because of skyglow. I purchased a pair of vintage SWIFT Holiday 7X35s 11 deg last year. ($25 yard sale)
The optics are only "coated" but the reslution and brightness seem as good as my 21st century binos with FMC. I feel so relaxed looking thru them. They have been my goto bino for wide field scanning since. I enjoy the ~40 year old Swifts better than 6X30 Russian SWA with 12.5 deg FOV.
I also prefer 5 mm exit pupil viewing from my suburban NJ location. Just took delivery of a pair of vintage 10X50s with 8 deg FOV this past Saturday. I estimate Tfov is ~7.7-7.8 deg. I am still checking them out.
I do enjoy using 7X50s for night time terrestrial viewing. The classic "night vision" glass. I'd like to try a pair of Pro Star or 10X70 FMT SX if I get a chance.
I should add I only have one pair of 7X50s in my current inventory. Owned a pair of Bushnell Sportsview 7X50s in the early 1980s but they developed double vision after a few years. My comments about 7 mm exit pupil is based on a sample of one.
ERik D
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Erik-
I plan to give them another try tonight... want to compare them with my Fujinon 7x50's. One of the 2 is going to go! I love them both mechanically... especially the Nikon's- but whichever one works better at night, will stay. Though I shouldn't probably judge from a suburban location! I have enough other bino's for daytime use.
Yeah- I'm a big fan of Swift's... Sounds like a good capture on the 7x35's! I have a pair of the Sears/Tower 12.5* 7x35's, great bino's!!
Wes
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Erik Bakker
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/10/06
Posts: 534
Loc: Haren, The Netherlands, Europe
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Hi Wes,
That halo doesn't sound right. The view should be clean with perhaps an even bright skybackground around the moon on a night with some thin high clouds.
CS,
Erik
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Visual astronomer, main instruments:
Fully mounted Questar 7 P-BB
Celestron C 102F f/8.8 fluorite
Vixen FL 70S f/8 fluorite
Celestron C 55F f/8 fluorite
Sets of Zeiss, TeleVue and Brandon eyepieces
Zeiss 7x50 Marine B/GA
Zeiss TM german equatorial
Gitzo 224 with Manfrotto 501 fluid head
Unitron alt-az mount
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Erik-
Thanks for your comments.. will check them against my Fuji 7x50's tonight. Should be a good comparison!
Wes
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Tom Reichel
member
Reged: 01/05/09
Posts: 10
Loc: SE Michigan
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B & H website says 7x50 prostars are discontinued??
Say it isn't so... 
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Tom
SE MI N42 W83
A couple of Dobs
More Bins and
Expanding used ep collection
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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I do like my home-made 7.4X51. The main reason; right angled viewing comfort! And it does deliver a 71 degree AFoV, for a TFoV of 9.5 deg. And I can easily employ nebula filters *ahead* of the eyepiece, where they work much more effectively than when attached behind. The aspherized objectives offer what I call 'snap-to' focus (and at 12.8X with the 13mm Ethos, too), and chromatic aberration is absolutely not detectable at this low power.
The main impediment to top notch performance is the Tasco bino eyepiece which, while delivering quite nice sharpness in the central 1/2 of the FOV, does rapidly suffer from astigmatism and de-focus due to field curvature toward the field edge. But all in all, I wouldn't trade it for any Zeiss.
In my book, I already have the best 7X50! (However, I just might see what a pair of 22mm Naglers can do, which would deliver 7.5X and a 10.5 deg. field.)
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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KBK
member
Reged: 08/05/09
Posts: 68
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Quote:
I was able to snag a nice pair of ProStars off ebay last week. They live up to their reputation. Nice flat field, field edges coincide with each other and the collimation is perfect vertically and just slightly overlapped horizontally. The area outside the fov is jet black. I tried to induce ghosting or glare by positioning the moon just outside the fov. Nothing, absolutely nothing. The only other binocular I have that surpresses glare/ghosting like this are the Taks.
Ah. That's the sort of information I've been looking for regarding stray light control on the premium brands. I modded out a set of old 'Le Gran' 10x50's that were manufactured by Hitachi (single coated) and I get the same results, with regard to stray light control. I did the same to about 8 other pairs of older classic binos, so far, and achieved the same results. I'm loosing light and suffering contrast loss from older coatings - but the rest of the situation being corrected helps make up the difference.
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It is the image of the ungraspable phantom of life; and this...is the key
to it all.
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Well, I finally got good comparison checks over the weekend- it appears my eyes were slightly fogging up the eyepieces on the Nikon's!! Doh!  That's what was causing the "skyglow" and associated halo's around objects! The Nikon's are totally sharp, clear and bright... however, I have come to the conclusion that they're going to be the pair to go... for me, I simply prefer the views through/ feel of the Fuji's. Which I really hate to say, because I love the Prostars... they're awesome bino's, made "like they used to". And the glare control on the Nikon's is slightly better on the full moon than in the Fuji's (really no glare at all on the moon in the Nikon's, only slight on the Fuji's) but I can only keep so many.
Wes
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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You must be the only person who has owned both and decided to get rid of the Prostars! Almost everyone who has used them agrees the nikons are sharper to the edge and have better stray light/ghost suppression.
I'm tempted to make an offer...
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Clear skies
Rich
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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As I said, they (the Nikon's) do have slightly better stray light/ ghost suppression.. not that the Fuji's were bad on a full moon with nearby clouds... but my Fuji's have a slightly wider fov- which I prefer. I do like the winged eyeguards on the Nikons, though... helps keep out extraneous light.
Hey, I'm always amongs the weird... I'm retiring from Florida to the North- unlike most others who go the other way!
Wes
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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Betcha they're gone by 11/3/09.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1590
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi Wes,
Do not overlook the proposition that you can get winged eyeguards (at a most reasonable price) for the FUJIs, should you decide to head that way.
I use and implement winged eyeguards on ALL of my binoculars. Never had an "install" problem whatsoever.
When we first moved up here in upstate NY, there was hardly a light around. Things have changed in 15 years. Now, I use all the eyeguards, and they work great.
Best regards,
Dave.
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Hi, Dave-
Thanks for the comments... where can you get the winged eyeguards for the Fuji's?? Would love to put them on my 10x as well... Texas Nautical??
11/03, eh Peter??? Well, somebody better send me a payment then!
Wes
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12915
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I must say I'm very surprised no - one jumped in to snap up at such a bargain price that fine specimen of probably the best 7 x 50 model ever made .
Kenny
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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I must have jinxed him. My bad.  $550 was an excellent price for a ProStar with all the fixin's.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Solar B
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/28/07
Posts: 921
Loc: By Edinburgh , Scotland
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I think many of us and those new to Binos do not realise how good the ProStars are,i myself can only comment on what ive actually tried Zeiss,Swar & Tak,so maybe there in lies the problem as if more knew then they would have sold here.
Even though their legendary status is well know in the Bino
Genre.
Brian
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" Gentlemen only ever use Refractors "
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daniel_h
sage
Reged: 03/08/08
Posts: 485
Loc: VIC, Australia
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the winged eyeguards?? its like showing a dog a bone - then putting it back in the fridge
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regal 10x42, 10x50ultras, 15x70 ultras, 20x80
Oly e-500, vixen 100/1000 with 0.965"/1.25",
2 old sturdy tripods for the bins (slik & velbon)
zeiss f5.6 refractor/lens (under construction)
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1590
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi Wes,
I will offer three places for the eyeguards.
First, Edmund Scientific. Then Baker Marine. And, also, check out Alpine Astronomical. These three are my main resources.
Also, if you do not find what you are looking for, then just try a Google search with your specific requirements. Hope this will help you some.
Best regards,
Dave.
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NDfarmer
member
Reged: 04/02/09
Posts: 24
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There is a mint pair of Prostars now on AstroMart, look like a nice value. Must be a member to purchase there.
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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Those are the ones Wes had for sale on CN recently.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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vincentdsnt
super member
Reged: 03/16/08
Posts: 100
Loc: Ellijay, Ga.
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I enjoy my Williams Optics 7x50 ED binos, the price is right the view is great but they are heavy.
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mercedes_sl1970
super member
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 144
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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I'll throw into the mix my Pentax 7x50 PIFs.
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mercedes_sl1970
super member
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 144
Loc: Canberra, Oz
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I'll throw into the mix my Pentax 7x50 PIFs.
Andrew
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Gordon Rayner
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/24/07
Posts: 971
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I once had a Prostar 7 x 50 . Very nice. But sold it, thinking that I might replace it, but have not. Does the Nikon 10 x 70 astronomy version give similar performance? I have seen it at exhibitions, but have not used it in the field at night, I bought one of the discontinued wide angle Nikon 10 x 70 in Yokohama in 1975, but sold it. Those were not multi-coated. There was one for sale at the last RTMC swap meet.
Is it now possible, given the limits or readjustments mandated by the no-lead-in- glass rules in Japan, to make a : 10 x 70 wide field with high image quality, axially similar to the Prostar, but with the wide field of the wartime Nikko 10 x 70, Zeiss wartime 8 x 60, or B&L 10 degree wide field WW II 7 x 50, the DDR Zeiss Jena 8 x 50B (multicoated), or the Sard 6 x 42, but equipped with modern multicoatings? I find that the added weight , from the larger prisms and eyepieces, which this implies, is not a problem , or at least worth the added burden, which is no problem if mounted.
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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I would love to have a bino such as you describe, Gordon.. weight is not an issue to me... Quality of optics and wide field of view is.
Wes
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Yes, i'd love to see a widefield, large exit pupil binocular of excellent quality come on to the market, but I fear the cost would be too high and demand too low.
Be incredible to use a 10x70 of nikon astroluxe quality, but with a 70 deg AFOV. They used to make the B&L 7x50 with a 10 deg true field, so it can be done!
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Clear skies
Rich
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jrweisner
member
Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 50
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Nikon 7x50 Prostar is NOT discontinued.
It is the ultimate 7x50 ever produced.
Comparable models like Zeiss or other do NOT reach its performance.
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Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Vixen 127/F4 2-lenses Photaron with Nagler 12mm T4
Docter 40x80 ED
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1590
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi RichD,
Yes I have one of those B&L 7x50 10* binocular.
Got a great deal on eBay. It's the NOVA brand. I'm still looking for the 7x35 WF NOVA on eBay! Hard to come by.
The 7x50 NOVA is as close to my FUJI 7x50 FMT-SX as any other 7x50 that I have. It is beautifully constructed, and the optics are hard to surpass, if at all, really.
Best regards,
Dave.
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Surely must be alot of degradation of the image in the outer portion of the FOV Dave?
Love to try a pair, or a modern version. Gordon is quite right to point out the gap in the market of a quality wide angle large exit pupil instrument.
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Clear skies
Rich
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Rich,
I have the same Clestron Nova 7X50s (10 deg) that Dave has. They were new in 1985. Received them as a B day gift from my wife (before we were married). For many years they were the best quality binocular I owned. Mechanical construction is tops. Not Mil spec, waterproof or fog proof but Solid. I have had them nearly 25 years. I feel I would be able to take them out of the case another 25 years from now and they will be the same as the day I received them.... A pair to pass down to the grand kids with a note about their history. ;-))
The Nova series are covered in Fan Tao's review of vintage Japanese binoculars here:
http://fantao.home.att.net/celnova.htm
Yes I would say the edge distortion is Severe. I can usually tolerate a fair amount of edge distortion in EWA binoculars. I naturally focus on objects in the center 50% of the FOV. The Nova 7X50 edge sharpness are pretty bad. 2/3 the way out stars are no longer recognizable as point source. Edge distortion of the Novas are acceptable in day time viewing.
I purchased a pair of vintage Swift Holiday (MK I?) with 11 deg FOV at a yard sale last year. Hard leather case intact. No lens caps.
They were marked down from $35 to $25 USD by me just asking "Can you do better on that?"
Marked "coated optics" only. The lens were dirty and the leatherette cover is worn but collimation was spot on. ( I spend a good 10-15 min checking them out) They required close to an hour of TLC after I got home (with Zeiss cleaning fluid, Orion extra soft lens tissue wrapped around Q tips) They have been my most used EWA binocular for the past year. Excellent resolution and color fidelity for a pair that's ~ 40 years old.
I have compared the view thru the Swift Holiday to my Celetron NOVA 7X50 and 2005 Russian 6X30 SWA (12.5 deg) quite a few times. Always ended up putting the other two back in the case. 5 mm exit pupil is just fine for me for astronomy. I reserve 7.1 mm for extremely low light terrestrial viewing.
I recall reading another thread earlier this year about why it's easier to make 7X35 EWA binoculars than 7X50s with good edge performance. I guess designers must make some trade offs for 7 mm exit pupil.
Fan Tao discussed the Swift Holiday MK II on his web page also. If they can make a pair that good 30+ years ago they can surely do better with modern CAD design and FMC coating. I feel many people will be willing to pay for quality porro prisms with 10 or 11 deg FOV selling in the $350 to $500 price range. ( Miyauchi Binon 7X50). I do not care if the binoculars are Chinese, Japanese or otherwise, as long as they perform.
ERik D
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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Thanks Erik, interesting read.
Fan taos site is excellent - lots of unusual binos on there. I always wanted to try a pair of the B&Ls.
As you say, there are huge trade offs in a 7mm bino, the main one most of the time being the FOV. If we want a 7mm exit pupil bino with large AFOV, then the objective lens has to be around f3 or less. This means huge prisms and big costs.
It was a shame miyauchi gave it a go and produced a pretty good effort, then folded sometime later.
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Clear skies
Rich
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GlennLeDrew
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 1304
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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The Tasco Model 124 7X50 is another extra wide design. Its objectives are f/3.3, but it uses a field flattener/focal reducer to bring it down to f/3.0, effectively. The prisms are rather large, having 27mm clear apertures, and the eyepiece field stops are 29mm diameter. The stated FOV is 578 ft @ 1,000 yd, or 11 degrees. I haven't verified this via direct measurement, but the calculation from objective effective focal length (150mm) and 29mm field stop agrees.
I use a pair of these 71.5 deg. AFoV eyepieces (*without* the focal reducer/flattener lenses) in my Mk II RA bino, to get a 7.4X50 with 9.6 deg. FOV.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces
My Gallery
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1590
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi Erik,
Very well put. I think you nailed it my friend. I still like to use the NOVAs, especially because of the robust construction.
No, the are not MIL specs, as are the FUJIs, but, they are certainaly just as the pleasure to use.
Best regards,
Dave.
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