Leatherneck15
member
Reged: 10/28/08
Posts: 41
Loc: United States of America
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I've been searching for a head that can handle binos from 5 to 8 lbs. I read EdZ's report advising not to undermount one's equipment but everything is so expensive! The Manfrotto 808RC4 is rated to 8 kilos (~17.5 lbs). Does anyone have this mount? Is it worth buying? Is it solid? Thx for any info! 
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Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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The 808RC4 certainly has the capacity, it's just that a 3-way head doesn't give you smooth clutch action. You have to loosen and re-tighten each axis for each movement. It also has a third axis you don't need for binocular use. 3-way heads are great for cameras but lacking for a simple alt/az use with smooth motions.
I would recommend the current Manfrotto 501HDV (13# rated) video head or the older 501 (13#) or 3063 (11#) models on the used market. They are 2-way "fluid" heads with viscous clutch action.
I use both the 501HDV and 3063 models with various binoculars. The 501HDV has a counterbalance spring for heavier binoculars and the 3063 has smoother clutch action for 70mm and lighter 80mm bins.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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I recommend you take a look at the new series 5000 tripod fluid head offered by Garrett Optical:
http://www.garrettoptical.com/product-p/series5000.htm
It's rated for 17.6 lbs and can reach ~7ft. I would be getting one of those if I didn't already have a dozen+ tripods in the house. (Including two Manfrotto 501 fluid head, a 701 HDV head, 128 RC, and 516 Fluid head). A Manfrotto 503 HDV fluid head rated for 17.6 lbs sells for over $350 for the head alone with one pan handle: http://www.garrettoptical.com/product-p/b503hdv.htm
The GO series 5000 includes a 7 ft tall tripod for $250. Order a pair of binos at the same time and get it for $200.
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beachchairbill
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/06/08
Posts: 506
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Here is another choice for a head " Manfrotto 229 " with rapid rapid plate. 224.90. This goes well with Flashpoint F-1428 Tripod, which folds down to 24" and weighs only 5.72lbs. This tripod can handel up to 26lbs and is made of carbon fiber. I use both my GBT 100/45 at 14lbs and my Celestron 8 SCT at 8lbs with no problem.
One issue mentioned above, this is a three way head and I try to only use two of them at any given time.
Beachchairbill
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Leatherneck15
member
Reged: 10/28/08
Posts: 41
Loc: United States of America
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Thanks all for the info. I didn't even realize I need to look specifically for a fluid head! Time to do more research and the 808RC4 is off the table! So I need to look for heads marked 'fluid head' and/or '2-way'? FWIW, I have an old wood tripod without a head so tripod/head combos are out.
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Nothing to see here. Move along.
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hallelujah
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 2153
Loc: Rocky Mt. High Colorado
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What about the Bogen/Manfrotto 128RC Tripod Head $69.95?
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/tradeins.htm 
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Celestron Traveler 8x25 & B. & H. 8x40 FC JAPAN & Revue 10x50 CF Porro FC JAPAN &
Pentax 12x50 PCF WP II FMC & Pentax 16x60 PCF WP FMC &
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II FMC & Orion 12x63 Mini Giant FMC JAPAN &
SPECTRUM I 20x65 FC JAPAN &
Orion 15x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN & Orion 20x70 Little Giant II FMC JAPAN
Orion 16x80 Giant FMC JAPAN & Orion 30x80 MEGAView FMC JAPAN
Barska 30x80 X-Trail LW FC & Burgess Optical Series II 20x90 FMC
Hallelujah! For the LORD God Omnipotent Reigneth
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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http://www.bigbinoculars.com/3011.htm
The 128 RC is the same as the old Bogen 3130 head. I used one when I purchased my first pair of Japanese 20X80s( 5 lb) back in 2001. Even though the head is rated fof a 9 lb load I decided to order a 501 fluid head within a week. The 128RC design use the same knob to increase alt tension and to lock the head. I found that at higher elevations( 45+ deg) I had to increase tension so much just to keep the bino stationary. At that point it's no longer a fluid head. I had to unlock and re lock each time I wanted to tilt. Remember photo and video heads are designed holding camera equipment near horizontal. (Some video heads are limited to +60 Deg elevation or less) The center of gravity shifts when you tilt up. A fluid head may be able to hold a 9 lb load in balance near horizontal but it will not stay in balance at high elevations.
I ordered the new Manfrotto 701 HDV head for my smaller 15X51 and 20X80 LW binos this year. Found that design works better. Good enough for my 8.5 lb Japanese 25X100 for short sessions. I was especially interested in the 701 HDV becasue it uses the same 501 PL quick release plate as my 501 head and the newer 501/503 HDV heads.
The EP height of a giant bino can change by a foot or more when you tilt from horizon to + 90 deg. To me it's much easier to use a heavy duty photo tripod with adjustable center column than a fixed ht. wood tripod. That way I don't have to lug my 17 lb adjustable ht observering chair around the yard for quick looks. 90%+ of my bino observing is done standing. Getting the right mount for my giant bino matters more than $100 difference in the price of the optics.
Edited by Erik D (10/17/09 10:15 AM)
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MacRoberts
sage
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 421
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Erik-
I am thinking of getting a 501HDV head for mounting Fuji 16x70's. I have read this is overkill and see that you apparently now use a 701 head for your bino's in the same weight range as the 16x70. Would you mind sharing why? The 701 head must be an improvement over the 501 in this weight range, but I would like to know more about why this is so.
Look forward to hearing from you.
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Jim
"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; what is man, that thou art mindful of him?" Psalms 8:3-4
TV Refractors
Fuji Binoculars
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
I ordered the new Manfrotto 701 HDV head for my smaller 15X51 and 20X80 LW binos this year. Found that design works better. Good enough for my 8.5 lb Japanese 25X100 for short sessions.
Jim,
I read over my post above. Realized the statement "Found that design works better" could be misleading. I meant to say the 701 HDV head works better than my old Bogen 3130 head for binoculars in the 5+ lb range. Not that the 701 HDV is a better design than the 501. The 501 head has a knob to increase the friction tension and another lever to lock the head. The 701 HDV only has one friction control for altitude. You turn it all the way to lock the head.
I have two 501 heads. Both are the older, non HDV model without the counter balance spring. I paid ~$125 for them back in 2001/2002. Still consider that model to offer the best performance/price ratio for binoculars up to 10 lbs. One of my 501 head is paired with a 3246 tripod. That tripod can reach over 7 ft and is still available from Adorma for $285. A new 501 HDV head is priced ~$180 today. That's why I recommend people shopping for a fluid head for binos up to 13 lbs to consider the new Garrett Optical series 5000 tripod/head combo for $250. It's rated for a 17 lb load. Has two pan handles. You get the carrying bag too.
I purchased the 701 HDV head to fill a special niche: I wanted a lighter wt, more compact head for nature observing. 98+% of my astro viewing is from my yard. A few pounds more matters very little. However, if I am going on a nature hike for an hour or two I prefer to carry something lighter than my 3221WN/501 head combo( 9.5 lbs). Paired with a 3011 tripod purchased from my local flea market the combo weighs in at ~ 7 lbs. The head is noticeably more compact than the 501 head. Still tall enough for standing observation, unlike the 728 digi tripod purchased a few years ago and little used. The fact that the 701 HDV can handle my 8.5 lb 25X100 for quick looks is a bonus.
I have about 1/2 dozen Manfrotto tripod heads for different applications. IMO, the 501 HDV is a better all around fluid head for optics up to 13 lbs. The 701 HDV would Not be my first choice as if I am getting just one fluid head for mounting giant binoculars. I am sorry for the confusion.
BTW, Whichever model you select, I HIGHLY recommend getting the optional 2nd pan handle. Makes a Big difference for efforless panning.
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Jim, I've used the 16x70s with both the 701HDV and 501HDV and feel the binoculars were undermounted on the 701. The 701 doesn't have nearly the capacity when tilted that the 501HDV does so needs more tension than the head is really able to provide. A 5# binocular on an L bracket at 45° is much easier to use with the 501HDV counterbalance spring. The clutch tension can be kept quite low.
The 701HDV is much more compact and is great for lighter binoculars and most any spotting scope, though.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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MacRoberts
sage
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 421
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Erik and Rich,
Thanks for the good information - doesn't sound like I'd go wrong getting the 501 head. Thinking back on the posts I've read about this head being overkill, one of them added that the 501 didn't have the smoothest action for this weight class. It concerned me a bit, but hearing that the 501 will do a great job at 45° implies other heads with less capacty may struggle to maintain enough tension at altitude angles we commonly use. "Not as smooth as others" becomes a secondary concern, I would think.
Thanks again!
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Jim
"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; what is man, that thou art mindful of him?" Psalms 8:3-4
TV Refractors
Fuji Binoculars
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Rich Strassberg
member
Reged: 07/30/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Greetings! I was just about to post a similar question, and saw yours. Ed Z. wrote an extremely useful report under "CN Reports / Mounts", in which 16X70s are pictured on a Bogen 410 Geared Head. "Fujinon 16x70 on a Bogen 410 Geared Head on a Bogen 3211 Good Combo."
I'm getting the 16X70 and the Universal Astronomics parralleogram mount; however, I'm not sure about the tripod. I'm considering a wooden surveyor tripod. They seems like they would be sturdier, although Larry recommended a lighter Bogen. So, I read Ed's mount report again and ran across the 410. I thought it might be good to also have a good head to use as well, when I didn't want to use the PMount.
My question is about the gears vs the 501 fluid head. It sounds like a slight motion might be better controlled. One reviewer mentioned that the controls might put some stress on the fingers. Can anyone elaborate on these points? Thanks!
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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Jim, here's a short review of the 701HDV with the Fujis:
Bogen/Manfrotto 701HDV head
Rich V
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Rich Strassberg
member
Reged: 07/30/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Sorry! I misquoted Larry at UA. He recommended the UA Light Aluminum Tripod.
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Rich S,
I use the 410 geared head mostly for performing measurements. The fine adjustment allows me to get stars or resolution targets at precise locations in the fov. While the slow motion feature is advantageous, the need to unlock a motion to move the binocular in wide range is not convenient for general viewing.
For most viewing I use a 501 head. I put my GO 22x85s on my standard 501 head and it works fine. I always turn the handles pointing forward, so I never use two handles, although I have three 501 heads, so could use two handles at any time if I choose to.
I sometimes put my 5# Fujinons on a D&S F12 fluid head (the Orion Paragon) mounted on a Bogen lightweight 3211 tripod. that works fine too.
Fluid heads mounted on top of surveyor tripods is not really a good combination. As mentioned above, you almost always have the need to raise or lower a center column. having a fluid head on a surveyor tripod with no center column would then cause the need for a chair with an adjustable heaight seat to accommodate the changing height of the eyepieces. There are center columns available for surveyor tripods, however, rather than go that route, I'd stick with a good camera tripods with a center column and crank.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Rich Strassberg
member
Reged: 07/30/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Thanks again Ed, for your time and comments, regarding the use of the 410 head. I will be getting the 475 tripod with the 501HDV head.
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
I will be getting the 475 tripod with the 501HDV head.
The Manfrotto 475/475B is the newer version of Bogen 3036/3236. If you have experience bidding on used equipment you may be able to get a used 3036 in good condition for ~$100. A new 475 tripod cost $250 and up. What I like about the old 3036 is the extra 10 inch in height. 84 inch max height instead of 74 inch for the 475. Really nice if you are over 6 ft tall or want to mount extra long binoculars such as the 25X100. GO 28X110 or GT 100mm 45 deg down the road. The EP location of a pair of 100mm binocular may be a foot or more below the mounting point when you have the binos pointed straight up.
Another good choice is the 3046/3246 tripod. This model can reach 89 inch with ~19 inch of geared center column. I utilize every inch of that center column travel when I mount the 100mm F7.5 Miyauchi Saturn III binocular. The 3036, 3046 and 475 are all rated for 26 lb load.
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MacRoberts
sage
Reged: 08/25/05
Posts: 421
Loc: Redlands, CA
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A big thanks to Erik, EdZ, Rich V, and so many others who make this forum a great resource. You can well imagine our attempts to make good purchases that will further our enjoyment of this hobby without having the knowledge and experience you guys have.
Anyone else think this would make a fine addition to the "Best of" thread? It provides some good insights not otherwise addressed there.
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Jim
"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; what is man, that thou art mindful of him?" Psalms 8:3-4
TV Refractors
Fuji Binoculars
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Rich V.
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 1393
Loc: Carson Valley, Nevada, USA
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I agree, Erik, the 3036 was the ideal height for many astro uses; it's too bad when they replaced it with the 475 they chose to make the 475 10" shorter.
I see a lot of nice 3036s, some with the excellent 3063 fluid head for very reasonable prices on Ebay. Some are real c**p, though, so good close up pictures of the item are essential. If you know what to look for, there are some really good buys out there. Some are like new. Let the buyer beware, though!
I like this style tripod enough to have three of them; two 3036s and a 475! I use a 3036 for the Miyauchis, the other 3036 for 16x70s or smaller and the 475 for daytime bino use or the 80/480 scope. I like the leg/ spreader arrangement of these tripods a lot.
Back for a while, Erik? Good to see you posting again.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/75/150x100 Saturn III, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 E2, 7x35 E, 8x30 E2, 7x26 Custom, 8x23AS Diplomat, 8x23 Travelite
Scopes:
C9.25, 6" f8 reflector, SV80S
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14731
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Quote:
I will be getting the 475 tripod with the 501HDV head.
The Manfrotto 475/475B is the newer version of Bogen 3036/3236. If you have experience bidding on used equipment you may be able to get a used 3036 in good condition for ~$100. A new 475 tripod cost $250 and up. What I like about the old 3036 is the extra 10 inch in height. 84 inch max height instead of 74 inch for the 475. Really nice if you are over 6 ft tall or want to mount extra long binoculars such as the 25X100. GO 28X110 or GT 100mm 45 deg down the road. The EP location of a pair of 100mm binocular may be a foot or more below the mounting point when you have the binos pointed straight up.
Another good choice is the 3046/3246 tripod. This model can reach 89 inch with ~19 inch of geared center column. I utilize every inch of that center column travel when I mount the 100mm F7.5 Miyauchi Saturn III binocular. The 3036, 3046 and 475 are all rated for 26 lb load.
Buyer beware when buying these models used. For instance, here Erik describes the 3246 as reaching 89". Well, there was a complete change in this tripod along the way. I have a 3246, black, leg spread 37", 19" geared center column, max height 68".
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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