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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Mark9473
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The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen
      #3405826 - 10/23/09 09:24 AM

(if the intro is too long, you can skip the next 4 paragraphs)

I just got back from a business trip that allowed me a few extra days in the foothills of the Pyrennees mountains between France and Spain. Being quite eager to expose my new Nobilem 15x60 binoculars to some properly dark sky, I set off last Sunday evening to a nearby mountain pass at almost 1500 m altitude, which according to the map promised to offer a good view of the surroundings. This location was actually within sight of the famous Pic du Midi observatory, and it was fun to check out the structures that could be seen.

By their very nature, mountain passes are of course not the highest point in the landscape, so there were several nearby mountains blocking part of the view. Sure enough, by the time it got dark the Great Star Cloud in Sagittarius was already about to set behind one of them, and I wasn't going to be able to do - or at least only a small part of it - my favourite "stairway to heaven" starhop from M11 in Scutum, then over to M16 in Serpens Cauda, and from there downward past M17, M18 etc. into the rich hunting grounds of Sagittarius.

But I wasn't going to let that spoil the fun, because really most of the things I wanted to see elsewhere in the sky were within easy sight: the three sections of the Veil Nebula, the North-America nebula flanked by a hint of the Pelican, the Andromeda nebula in its full splendour, NGC7789 with dozens of stars resolved, the Merope nebula, etc. etc., and most importantly, the endless variations of bright and dark patches in the Milky Way, that never cease to amaze and frustrate me.

But on to the topic of this post. The conditions weren't as perfect as they could be. At sunset there was a lot of colour on large blobs of fog floating through the valleys around me, and later Jupiter was showing a faint halo. At one point I was looking over my left shoulder at the fog hanging over the valley, being brightly lit from below. The Pleiades were hanging just over that, and the view I got was really nothing better than what I get at home (my sighting of the Merope nebula was later when they were higher in the sky).

Then I glanced over to the Southern horizon and saw a rather brightly lit semi-circular whisp of cirrus floating into view. I said to myself, *bleep* this site has to be even worse than I imagined because for a cirrus cloud to be so bright, there has to be a lot of light polution in that direction. But then I realized that I was just on the northern edge of the Pyrennees, and that there really wasn't any big city in that direction (due south) other than Zaragoza, but that was 150 km away!

Next I looked at the cloud with my binoculars, and noticed that it had unnaturally sharply-defined edges, and what's more there was a second fainter arc running exactly parallel to it. Nature doesn't make anything like this, but I thought it could hardly be a jet contrail either, because of the rather sharp curve. The thing continued to slide upward in the sky, and pretty soon looked like a nice display of a lunar halo. Then something else jumped into view. Instead of the Moon being at the center of the circular halo, up came a very bright irregular patch of cloud, seemingly in the geometric center of the big arc. Its brightness seemingly rivalled that of any star in the sky.

In the binoculars that cloud looked like an irregular fan of bright light, with very pronounced streamers inside it. If ever there was an example of what a decent comet should look like, this was it. But, shockingly, instead of the cometary nucleus being superimposed on the cloud, here it was speeding in front of the cloud. This was a satellite! It had obviously just expelled that bright gas cloud, and had created the two big arcs earlier in its orbit. There was a fainter satellite following it a few degrees lower, but I soon lost track of that one - there was just too much to look at, because the leading satellite continued to expell gas as I was watching it. Looking like the bow wave of a ship, gas continued to flow out from it and towards the bright cloud. By this time the entire event was sliding up towards the zenith, and the outer big arc was so big it seemed to fill half the sky. It's eastern half was dimming, I thought because it was entering the Earth's shadow. Then a bit further on, the satellite expelled two more gas clouds, fainter ones this time, and I continued to gape at this display as it was speeding towards the northern horizon.

This was one of the top events I have ever seen in the night sky, and I've been thinking back about this all week. When I got home today, it didn't take more than a few minutes to identify what I had seen: this was an Atlas 5 rocket launching a spy satellite, and dumping fuel along the way. Stunning!


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Mark9473
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3405829 - 10/23/09 09:26 AM

Here's a link to a shot some guy in France took of this event.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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RichD
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Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 564
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3405964 - 10/23/09 10:40 AM

Wow! That's the sort of night we dream about as amateur astronomers. There was something similar, though not so spectacular a couple of years back when a centaur rocket purged fuel and produced a fan shaped cloud. That was discussed on this forum.

I remember that night well as it came right at the end of a very, very good nights observing and was the icing on the cake.

Congratulations on a fine nights work using a great pair of binos!

--------------------
Clear skies

Rich


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ronharper
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3405992 - 10/23/09 10:56 AM

Yeah I see those all the time, yawn.

No, really, that is incredible!! I enjoyed your vivid report. It's great that you could provide the photograph, just so we'll know better what you were talking about, not that it sounded crazy or anything.

But, deep down, what do you really think about stuff like this? I think maybe it is a little bit obscene, you know? An atomic blast would be pretty cool too wouldn't it? I observe at first dark, and every night guaranteed, a satellite comes right across what I'm trying to look at, and often I'll see two satellites at once in the same field, have never seen three however. Average nightly total for an hour observing, probably ten or fifteen. They're something to look at, but My God, what have we done?

I thought at first you might say you saw the part of the Veil that passes through 52 Cyg, which I don't think I've ever seen in a binocular, up to 16x70(although I see arc with the "snake mouth" in small binoculars on good nights). I hope you'll get to try that in perfect conditions without distractions sometimes.

Thanks for sharing the experience,
Ron


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RichD
professor emeritus


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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: ronharper]
      #3406029 - 10/23/09 11:18 AM

"They're something to look at, but My God, what have we done? "

Yes, I think that too sometimes - huge amount of satellites in the night sky now - I don't remember seeing as many when I started this hobby some 25 years ago.

One things for sure - there's no going back now!

--------------------
Clear skies

Rich


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BobinKy
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3406057 - 10/23/09 11:31 AM

Mark...

Nice descriptive report and photo.

--------------------
Bob
38°N


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Mark9473
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: ronharper]
      #3406075 - 10/23/09 11:39 AM

Quote:

deep down, what do you really think about stuff like this? I think maybe it is a little bit obscene, you know?




I agree... but... having just done a 2500 km car trip guided by GPS, I was at times quite happy to have those satellites up there, and also the ones relaying my phone calls home.

I'm just happy I'm not into astrophotography


Quote:

I thought at first you might say you saw the part of the Veil that passes through 52 Cyg, which I don't think I've ever seen in a binocular, up to 16x70(although I see arc with the "snake mouth" in small binoculars on good nights). I hope you'll get to try that in perfect conditions without distractions sometimes.




I did mean to say that I thought I saw something near 52 Cyg (not right up to the star though), but it's the most difficult part and in such a busy Milky Way starfield I can't honestly say I am 100% certain.

What is the snake mouth?

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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Wes James
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3406189 - 10/23/09 12:43 PM

Beautiful picture, Mark-
I can only imagine what it must have been like to see it firsthand under dark skies! On the downside... here we go, again... more air (space???) pollution!

--------------------
Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL

Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O

"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers


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KennyJ

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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3406205 - 10/23/09 12:51 PM

Mark ,

Wonderful description of what must have been such an exciting experience .

I wouldn't have had a CLUE what had caused such a sight -- but then again I'd honestly never even heard of a moonbow until one night about three years ago around this time of year I just happened to step outside our south - west facing back door , and there was one -- looking as distinctive as a rainbow , perfectly encircling the moon !

I rushed into the forums here to excitedly report this amazing sighting -- only for resident lunar expert Carol L. to explain what it was to me , within minutes of me posting !

Personally , I find sights such as what you saw much more exciting to behold than what nature offers a typically light polluted night sky , through binoculars .

Kenny


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ronharper
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: KennyJ]
      #3406409 - 10/23/09 02:31 PM

Mark said:
"I did mean to say that I thought I saw something near 52 Cyg (not right up to the star though), but it's the most difficult part and in such a busy Milky Way starfield I can't honestly say I am 100% certain.

What is the snake mouth? "


I would like to hear from anyone who has seen this part of the Veil with a binocular.

Excuse me, that's just my own private way of thinking about the structure at one end of the arcing piece of the Veil, directly off the arm of Cygnus. To me, it looks like a snake with its mouth wide open, ready to bite. It's easy to see with a telescope, but I can just make it out in a 16x70.
Ron


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Mateyhv
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Reged: 10/10/09
Posts: 50
Loc: 43°N
Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: ronharper]
      #3406439 - 10/23/09 02:45 PM

If that is in fact an Atlas V rocket it has been launched on 10-18-2009. Some info at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_%282000-2009%29#2009

Thay payload info could be found under the title "Defense Meteorological Satellite Program" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Meteorological_Satellite_Program


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Mark9473
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mateyhv]
      #3406462 - 10/23/09 03:00 PM

Thanks for that info; last Sunday was indeed the 18th. Great that it was the 600th launch of that type rocket.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3406952 - 10/23/09 07:40 PM

Kenny,
A moonbow is a rainbow, which is of course caused by water droplets, and is seen opposite the moon. What you saw was a halo, formed by ice crystals in very high cirrostratus cloud.

--------------------
Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Home-made Mk II RA bino, using interchangeable objectives and eyepieces

My Gallery

Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.


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Littlegreenman
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #3407021 - 10/23/09 08:28 PM

In Southern California we have Vandenberg Air Force Base. This is West Coast Space Launch Facility for the USA. Since the 1960's we have been treated to a lot of launches, orbital, sub-orbital and launch failures. I live about 120 miles as the crow flies, but some of the rockets are visible hundreds of miles over the Pacific. Most Vandenberg launches are unannounced military launches. Sometimes you can see the point of flame coming out the end, with a rapidly expanding plume. Sometimes staging or destruction causes a large plume. Launches with the sunset behind them really glow, and plumes can quite large, several hand diameters. If the sun is below the horizon it can really highlight the plume with a lot of colors. I bet the people in Southern Florida get better and more frequent views.

LGM


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Gordon Rayner
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Reged: 03/24/07
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Littlegreenman]
      #3412503 - 10/26/09 05:24 PM

At the Riverside Telescope Makers Conference (RTMC) south of Big Bear Lake, NE of Los Angeles, in 1984, when most were in the dining hall, I lingered on the telescope field. I had one of the Fuji 25 x 150 Right Angle on display. Someone shouted " Look!" A submarine had launched a ballistic missile from near Point Mugu about 150-200 miles to the west, we learned later. Someone had latched onto the 25 x 150, and would not politely let me look. Then a second missile streaked upward. Is this the start of WW III? Then, the first missile exploded. This was because it was off course, someone speculated. But I was worried. The exo-atmospheric rocket trails expanded in colorful cones. Someone from the miltary-industrial complex was somehow tracking the surviving missile through a large Cassegrain telescope. He described events to a companion: " there goes the bus"...etc.

I have seen the Vandenberg evening launch trails several times, from over 200 miles. There were some (rare at this lattitude) noctilucent clouds about 4 years ago. I thought " that is a high altitude angle for a Vandenberg launch", but then realized their true nature.


I saw a night launch and Apollo 13 launch . Nothing approaches the disturbing, spectacular dual launch and explosion from RTMC in 1984.


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eklf
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: RichD]
      #3412945 - 10/26/09 09:10 PM

Quote:

There was something similar, though not so spectacular a couple of years back when a centaur rocket purged fuel and produced a fan shaped cloud. That was discussed on this forum.




I vividly remember that incident several years ago. Here is the link
to that post. It was quite an experience, and I can only imagine your thrill.

--------------------
Clear Skies/Kumar


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rookie
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: eklf]
      #3413225 - 10/26/09 11:54 PM

We have the Atlas rocket launch tomorrow at 8am here in Florida. It should be spectacular if the sky is clear. We live 120 miles SW of the Space Center and can see the launches when weather permits. It's best to go to a waterfront location for a clear view to the horizon with the 16x70 (or any size you can get your hands on). You can see fire, smoke exhaust tail, and the stages separating. I catch myself holding my breath because it's spectacular and because I'm praying it won't blow up. I've been doing that since I watched the Challenger launch demise in 1985.

--------------------
SV
Scope: Celestron CPC8
Binoculars: Garrett GT80~45, Fujinon 16x70, Regals 10x42, Ultima 9x63, Nikon AE 8x40



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brocknroller
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: ronharper]
      #3413375 - 10/27/09 02:31 AM

Quote:

Yeah I see those all the time, yawn.

No, really, that is incredible!! I enjoyed your vivid report. It's great that you could provide the photograph, just so we'll know better what you were talking about, not that it sounded crazy or anything.

But, deep down, what do you really think about stuff like this? I think maybe it is a little bit obscene, you know? An atomic blast would be pretty cool too wouldn't it?...
Ron




... you mean "a little bit obscene" when our eyes are melting out of our skulls like watches in a Dali painting?

as Santa said to Ralphie in "A Christmas Story":

"You'll shoot your eye out, kid."

I'll pass on being an eye[less]witness to an atomic air blast.

But you make a good point, there's probably nothing more "phenomenal" (or more horrifying) than the spectacle of an atomic bomb exploding.

Even though I couldn't understand the full ramifications of such an explosion, after we had air raid drills at our school and followed the "Fallout Shelter" signs down to the basement and put our coats over our heads, I had nightmares about atomic bombs exploding over NYC (the Manhattan skyline was visible from a park in my town - which, btw, was also the site of a famous UFO sighting).

In fact, the two recurring nightmares I had as a child were running for shelter from "The Bomb" and being chased by flying saucers.

Returning to the topic of the OP... the most phenomenal man-made sky event I've witnessed (besides two airplanes crashing, which I will not describe) happened right after my club had wrapped up its monthly Skywatch at a local park.

There were only three of us left still dragging equipment to our cars, the club president, the Skywatch Czar, and me (new member recruiter or as I called the position - "star trooper recruiter").

I was on my knees packing up my Celestron 10x50 ED bins when the Czar cried out: What the [heck] is that? in Russian (I wrote it in Russian, but the CN server doesn't do Cyrillic letters so use Babelfish).

I looked up and saw he was pointing to several objects streaking across the sky, from west to east.

I counted five separate objects moving rather slowly across the sky, looking like five comets in fast motion.

I trained my bins on them and saw that there were also smaller objects streaking in the same formation, about a dozen in all. I could also see more colors - green, gold, and crimson.

At 10x, the brighter objects did look like a comet - a "coma" in front, a bright "nucleus" next, and a long bluish-white tail.

The first thing we wondered if there was a Space Shuttle in orbit, because the scene resembled the break-up of the Columbia.

We came to the consensus that thankfully, it was not, but we were still puzzled about whether this was a man-made object falling from orbit or a Bolide breaking up in the sky (and I don't mean the Swedish Guided Missile by that same name, Mark :-).

The whole thing took place in slow motion and seemed to last longer than it actually did. We tracked the objects for several minutes until they faded from sight over the horizon.

When we got home, we posted messages about the sky event on the club listserv, and one of our members, who follows satellites and rocket launches very closely, responded that it was a Russian rocket booster burning up.

The Czar posted a comment: oh, so that's what the [heck] it was! (in Russian, our club server does allow Cyrillic letters)

I think there's something very primeval about seeing unusual things in the sky.

For example, comets were thought to be portends of war.

To get back to Ron's comment, it might be no coincidence that the the first atomic bomb was tested at Trinity Site, on July 16, 1945, and the first widely reported UFO sighting in the United States was made by pilot Kenneth Arnold on June 24, 1947, on a military search mission when he sighted a series of unidentified flying objects near Washington's Mt. Rainier.

Two weeks after Arnold's flight, the Roswell story broke, and UFO hysteria was on.

A spike in UFO reports occurred after the launch of Sputnik on October 4, 1957.

It's also probably no coincidence that Orson Wells Halloween broadcast of the radio play of H.G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" on October 30, 1938 caused such hysteria, having come on the heels of the greatest news event of 1938, which took place on September 29, when four powerful world leaders met at the Fuhrerhaus, in Munich, to redraw the map of Europe after Hitler annexed Austria.

Here's a prediction: 2012 will be a landmark year for seeing "strange things" in the sky. It might begin in 2011 or even next year.

The only object I'm hoping to see streaking across the night sky will occur on December 24 when Santa will be delivering a package to my house containing a 10x42 Nikon EDG. No, I have not been that good, rookie!

Thanks for that eyewitness report, Mark. They say that a picture paints a thousand words, but the sequence of reading your description first and then seeing the photo of what you had described was the most informative.

--------------------
B'rock, son of Grilka
Member of the House of Kozak
Klingon Poet-Warrior
----------------------------------------------
"The character of a Klingon poet-warrior is measured not only by the metal of his blade--but also by the mettle of his words."



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Mark9473
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: brocknroller]
      #3414265 - 10/27/09 03:03 PM

Thanks for that post, Brock. Are you by any chance referring to the infamous Mayan calendar, or what else made you think about 2012? I certainly won't mind seeing more unusual events, just as long as they stay harmless.

I know what a bolide is, but didn't know there is also a missile by that name. Will have to look that up. One of the first bolides I saw in my youth, was a satellite re-entry. It was bright, vividly orange, and broke up at the end - the whole thing lasted about half a minute. I could probably still point to where it flew, even though it's 25+ years ago.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici


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ronharper
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Re: The most phenomenal thing I have ever seen new [Re: Mark9473]
      #3414892 - 10/27/09 08:43 PM

I knew an old nuclear physicist who was in on the bomb from very early on who actually witnessed an in-air test, from what was calculated to be a safe distance, of course. He was funny. He finished his story "...but, the brightest thing I ever saw was something my grandson had out in the driveway one Christmas."

While we're swapping stories, subtle-loving me, my personal was a fine display of Northern Lights here in NM, in 2000 I think, a day or two after a record breaking sunspot breakout. This was not the curtain-looking things like I've seen pictures of at all. Weird green "blobs of light" were coming from all directions and converging at a point on the ecliptic. It would take a blob maybe 2 seconds to cross the sky. I fell back, sore amazed. I later determined the convergence point to be the exact anti-solar point, or directly opposite the sun in the sky. I thought this was very significant, in my simple minded way, but solar/aurora type scientists I know poo-pooed the idea, saying the behavior is way very much too complicated for the likes of me. OK, but I've been around the block a couple of times, and still think that was something that cried out for an explanation.
Ron


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