ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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Hi Guys -
I'm interested in getting a set of binoculars to use on a hand-held basis only - basically for short looks and to help in finding objects to view through my telescope. Hoping to spend no more than 150.00 - used, older models are fine with me as well.
thanks!
patrick
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There is no "high" like the Most High
Edited by ruachsheavens (10/30/09 08:29 PM)
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Wes James
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/06
Posts: 3460
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Hi, Patrick-
Well, 8x43's or 10x50's are good for that purpose... 7x50's also, however with the larger exit pupil, 7x50's/10x70's are better used from dark sky sites- otherwise you'll suffer from skyglow in a brighter environment with the larger exit pupil.
You might want to place an ad in the bino section of the Shop/Swap forum, or watch for good used ones to appear. For Astro use, porro prism models are usually better than roof prism models. Buying used, you want to make sure that they're in collimation- ask- and buy from sellers who've been around a while with good feedback. Careful on eBay...
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Wes
Atlantic Beach, FL
Some bino’s from Miyauchi 5x32 Binon's up through Garrett 20x110 Signature's,
Some telescopes from a Stellarvue 80mm NHNG up through a couple of 8” reflectors…
And a wonderful 4.25" Delmarva Shiefspiegler!
Some good friends, made here on C/N.
Oh- several cats and a wonderful wife!
Anyone want a cat???? :-O
"When your work speaks for itself- Don't Interrupt" -Gamble Rogers
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ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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thanks Wes - I will do that - it also seems that garrett optical has a pretty good reputation. I missed a pair of used stellarvue 15x63 for 135.00 plus shipping - I hesitated because the seller said they were "not mint" and had a couple of spots on one of the objectives. A mint pair had sold for 150.00 shipped, so I Offered 120.00 shipped but didn't get them. Someone gave him his asking price. If anyone watching this thread has something they think I might be interested in, pls PM me!
Thanks
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There is no "high" like the Most High
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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The ability to hand hold high power binoculars varies greatly from person to person, even day to day. For most people 12X50 size seems to near the upper limit. I don't use a mount for binoculars under 15X. I hand hold 12X50 roof prisms on regular basis. Also have 12X60 porro prisms. 15X51 takes more concentration. Sitting down in a chair with arms braced help a lot. Others feel 10X50 is the upper limit for them.
Then Nikon Action EX 12X50 is a fine binocular if you feel up to it. Available for $142 from amazon.com right now.
ERik D
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ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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looks like the Stellarvue 12x63's I wanted are mine for the taking again for 120.00 shipped - should I grab them? I have read that they were a pretty good setup for the money.
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There is no "high" like the Most High
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ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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sorry- 15x63's
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There is no "high" like the Most High
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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I believe the Stellarvue 15X63s are housed in the same body as the more common Chinese 15X70s. Aperture is reduced to 63 mm.
You can purchase a pair of 15X70s from Garret Optical new for $140:
http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-11x70-and-15x70-Astronomy-Binoculars-p/g70lw.htm
15X63/70 binocular could be a bit challenging to hand hold if you are not experienced.
ERik D
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ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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Hi Erik -
Thanks for your input - I have had 10x50 before and had no problem holding them steady so I think I'd like to try some a bit on the bigger side. In regard to garret opticals,I had looked into them and was told they were good, but that a used pair of the Stellarvue 15x63s would be better quality (individual focusing for each ep, fully waterproof, QC done by Vic, etc.)do you not share that opinion?
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There is no "high" like the Most High
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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It's been some years since I last followed the Stellarvue binoculars. Don't recall all the details or if they are waterproof. There are two reviews of the Stellarvue binos in the mini review section. Tried to post a link but it's does not work. You can look for it in the mini review section.
In my experience steady holding is as much a mental exercise as physical. When I competed in rifle matches in college only iron sights were allowed. After graduation I joined a league which permitted optical sights. I purchased a 25X Lyman Superspot target scope used. It was all I could afford back then. At first it seemed impossible to keep the X hairs in the black while standing. After a year of competing with it I saved enough fund to purchased a 16 X Weaver T scope. Holding 16X steady seemed SO much easier after holding a 25X bench rest scope.
You have a better chance to achieve something if you have the will to Try. In my experience holding 15X steady enough to enjoy the view is possible. Doesn't require arms of a body builder. Sit down in a armed chair and support your elbows.
Suggestion of holding 15X or higher powered binos usually brings mixed response. Just keep in mind it's not a competition. Do it if you enjoy viewing that way. If not, you can always mount them on a tripod. I found that sitting in a chair with arm rests, shorten the legs of a tripod and use it as a bipod works very well too. Almost as steady as a tripod but with the added advantage of been able to lean back and relax. I always saw more details holding my 20X80 LW( or 18X72) than I did with Canon 18X50 IS binoculars.
ERik D
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4947
Loc: MA
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>>>basically for short looks and to help in finding objects to view through my telescope. <<<
Wide TFOV is very helpful for this use. In your price range, Nikon 10x50 AE Porro prism bins would be a very good choice, IMO.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14732
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
I believe the Stellarvue 15X63s are housed in the same body as the more common Chinese 15X70s. Aperture is reduced to 63 mm.
You can purchase a pair of 15X70s from Garret Optical new for $140:
http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-11x70-and-15x70-Astronomy-Binoculars-p/g70lw.htm
15X63/70 binocular could be a bit challenging to hand hold if you are not experienced.
ERik D
The Stellervue 15x63 is indeed the same binocular as the Garrett Gemini 15x70 WP.
The like above points to the wrong GO. It's not the LW, it's the WP.
http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-Waterproof-15x70-Astronomy-Binoculars-p/g1570wp.htm
In the smaller sizes, this model (the Oberwerk Mariner line) has much narrower Afov eyepieces and hold incredible field sharpness out to near the edges. In the larger sizes, (the GO Gemini WP line or Orion Giantview line) they don't use the same eyepiece, they use wider Afov eyepieces, and do not have the same field sharpness, although they aren't bad at all.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
[
The Stellervue 15x63 is indeed the same binocular as the Garrett Gemini 15x70 WP.
The like above points to the wrong GO. It's not the LW, it's the WP.
http://www.garrettoptical.com/Garrett-Waterproof-15x70-Astronomy-Binoculars-p/g1570wp.htm
edz
I did have the more common 15X70 LW in mind, not the WP.
I Noticed that GO 15X70 WP model wt is 4 lb 2.5 oz. That's getting close to the weight of 70 mm Fuji FMT SX, heavier than my 20X80 LW. Hand holding a binocular of this size will take concentration and determination. Doable but not something I'd suggest to someone trying one step up from a 10X50 the first time.
If possible, I recommend going to a retailer or borrowing a pair of 15X70 LW. See if you feel comfortable hand holding 15X for day time views. If not, you won't like doing that at night. Dancing points of light are much tougher to view than terrestrial objects.
ERik D
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ruachsheavens
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/05
Posts: 768
Loc: Northern IL
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Thanks to everyone for all of their help and advice - any ideas what kind of retailer I could go to to check out various binoculars? There isn't an astronomy store anywhere near me and the selection at Dick's Sporting goods was worse than walmart
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There is no "high" like the Most High
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 3196
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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How far are you from Eagle Optics:
http://www.eagleoptics.com/customer-service/about-us/store-hours-location
Those who visited their showroom reported friendly staff and well stocked inventory.
Cabela's has a retail store in you state. Binoculars from under $50 to $2,500.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/home/home.jsp?cm_re=store*topnav*CabelasLogo
The Celestron 15X70 Sky Master is probably the most common 15X70 around. Not suggesting you purchase that particular model, but you can get a feel for what's it like holding 15X. IIRC, a CN member reported he looked thru 3 or 5 pairs of Skymasters to find a pair he liked. Barska brand is in the same price range.
ERik D
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Luigi
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 4947
Loc: MA
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15x70s can produce outstanding views. I have 16x70 Fujinons. However, for your stated use, "hand-held basis only - basically for short looks and to help in finding objects to view through my telescope," I don't think you'll find 15x70s satisfactory. They're too heavy, they'll be too unsteady, and the FOV will be too small to easily find your way around the constellations. The Fujinons I have are particularly heavy and only useful mounted. Lately, I wear a set of 10x50s when observing with my scopes, but in the past I've happily used bins as small as 8x32 for this purpose.
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17.5" f/5 Dob. IM-715 MCT. 120ED. Lunt 60mm Ha.
Zeiss, Leica, Fujinon, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell bins
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 12890
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I would have to concur with everyone recommending something smaller and lighter than a 15X63. Indeed, it isn't a matter of physical strength (Erik, I just tested: I can still do a one-armed pushup  ); it is a matter of field of view and steadiness. For finding things in the sky one really wants a nice wide FOV, and for looking at them without having them dance around, magnifications over 10X, handheld, are likely to be a disappointment.
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12.5 inch Portaball + Osypowski platform
LX10
Oberwerk BT100 45° binocular
Orion binoviewer + ScopeStuff extender (so it focuses at f/4.9)
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jrw11
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 523
Loc: unknown
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Of the ones I have. the 12 x 60s are about maximum. My 15 x 70s are just too unsteady.
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Celestron C6n -HD Reflector
dual axis drive motors added
Orion 80mm Short tube refractor
Skyscout
Early 70's Pentax 7x50
Garrett Optical 12x60
Garrett Optical 15x70
Oberwerk 20x80 Standards
Canon Rebel Ti (film)
4 Minolta Srt cameras
Mamiya RB67 Pro-s with 180 lens
127mm KL lens for RB, Bellows hood for RB67
Mamiya M645 Pro
Cambo SCII 4x5 view camera
over 50 other film cameras
several eyepieces
too much stuff
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Simon S
sage
Reged: 01/07/07
Posts: 391
Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
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The first question is how steady are your hands?
I can use a12 times binocular, most of the time, but if i'm out and get hungry, i tend to get a bit shakey, making 12 X unusable.
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My binocular collection recent first
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/
My binoculars in Alphabetical order http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/sets/72157613812824211/detail/
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KennyJ
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 12909
Loc: Lancashire UK
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This topic appears to have swung from how BIG to how HIGH in magnification .
As regards sheer size , the barrels of my 90mm measure 107mm in diameter .
I've too much experience to even attempt to use 20x binoculars hand - held , but even in the hypothetical situation of they being only 7x magnification , I would still find them too cumbersome to hand - hold for any length of time .
Certainly 100mm binoculars would be out of the question for hand - holding for me .
In perhaps a strange way , I actually like the sheer size of my Helmsman marine 50mm binoculars when I'm holding them , but they ARE surprisingly lightweight for their size .
Likewise , even though somehow feeling considerably heavier than the Helmsman ( possibly because they are indeed heavier ! ) I liked the actual FEEL of the Oberwerk 60mm and Swarovski 56mm models that I've tried .
Yet , however lightweight , I find even my " relatively small " 70mm binoculars to be a bit on the unwieldy side .
In summary , I would say that if the weight and ergonomics suited me , 60mm or maybe 63mm would be about the maximum size I would consider buying for exclusive hand - held use .
Kenny
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If everyone is thinking the same thing , no-one is thinking - General George S.Patton
Zeiss 7 x 42 BGAT
Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50
Nikon 10 x 42 Superior E
Swift Audubon Kestrel 10 x 50
Helios 15 x 70 Observation
Strathspey 20 x 90
Televue 76 APO
Zeiss 85 Diascope
Helios 102 f5 refractor
Various eyepieces barlows tripods mounts etc.
Panasonic Lumix DMC - TZ5 digital camera
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Mark9473
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 3217
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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For me, it would depend on the typical sky quality and, even more so, the size of the telescope. For finding things you want to look at in a 12" dob, a small pair of binoculars like 7x50 or 8x42, which are the most easy to hand hold, would be useless - too many of the targets for the big dob would be completely invisible in the binoculars.
I think something like a 15x63 or even 15x70 would be good for the use the OP described. He shouldn't care too much that the view will be shaky, just as long as it helps him point his telescope.
If the sky quality was excellent, a 12x50 would be the minimum size I'd consider. But 15x would still be better to help locate small objects such as planetary nebulae.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Vixen 8x42; Swift 8.5x44, 10x50 and 20x80; TS 7x50; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD + Baader 90° T2 Amici
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RichD
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Derbyshire, UK
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12x50
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Clear skies
Rich
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 1768
Loc: Connecticut
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I find that diurnal binocularing is always easier than nocturnal binocularing. Hence a nocturnal limit of 8x for handheld use and 20x for diurnal handheld use. The rules are different for IS instruments.
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 15 - 88 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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