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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Richard McC
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Reged: 12/31/04

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Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2)
      #5038531 - 01/26/12 08:07 AM Attachment (249 downloads)

After almost two thousand posts to the old "Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussions" thread it is time to start a new one before the forum software has a heart attack!

To kick things off here are a couple of pictures of my Swift Audubon 804ED (8.5x44). Not a vintage binocular (mine was manufactured in 1996) but a Swift collector might call it a classic. Very sharp on axis and a decently wide field of view (~8.2°) too.


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Richard McC
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5038533 - 01/26/12 08:07 AM Attachment (187 downloads)

Second picture

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planetmalc
sage


Reged: 10/21/09

Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5038882 - 01/26/12 11:40 AM

I bought one of these, secondhand and sight unseen, and was rather disappointed by the off-axis performance, which I'd rate as 'poor' for a model that retailed new at over £400 in the UK. The bulbous front element is a liability that requires the user to be extra-careful. I liked everything else about it though, particularly the vivid colour rendition which is clearly better than that of the Audubon 10 x 50 HR/5 model of the same vintage. Surprisingly, the two models weigh almost the same. Lovely handling and a real good-looker.

So near and yet so far.......


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5038977 - 01/26/12 12:31 PM

Richard, you could have let the previous thread reach 100!
Love the Swifts, they are a great performer.


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Richard McC
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5039638 - 01/26/12 06:10 PM Attachment (150 downloads)

Sorry Simon, we should have moved to a new thread earlier. The forum software isn't fond of really long threads. If you go to "My Home" and then "Display preferences, number of shown threads, languages, colors..." you can change the number of posts to display per page. Reduce that from 20 to 19 and the thread will be over a 100 pages long for you.

The Swift 804ED does show very vivid colors, planetmalc. With my sample under the stars the image quality begins to noticeably fall off about half way from the center of the FOV to the edge and near the edge it is very poor. By day the `sweet spot' seems to be larger. At least the degradation increases gradually which I find less annoying than when things go from good to poor very quickly. It would be better still if almost all (or indeed all) of the FOV was great but I guess not every binocular can be a Fujinon FMT, Nikon Prostar or SE, etc. The 8.5x44 and 10x50 versions of the Swift are pretty similar in size (see attached picture) and weight and I agree that the objectives should have been recessed a little more for better protection.


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Richard McC
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5039645 - 01/26/12 06:13 PM Attachment (129 downloads)

My Swift collection (my father has a 1999 804 non-ED too).

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Philip Levine
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5039695 - 01/26/12 06:49 PM

Hello Richard,
Does't Simon qualify for some special recognition from CN for starting and contributing to such a great thread? The variety and depth of vintage bino info in this thread has been amazing, great tips, photos, you name it. 139426 views, 1925 replies, 97 pages!
Kudos Simon!
Phil


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KennyJ
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Philip Levine]
      #5039756 - 01/26/12 07:13 PM

For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree that Simon deserves special recognition for his contributions to this forum !

Kenny


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Zdee
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5039781 - 01/26/12 07:27 PM

Quote:

For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree that Simon deserves special recognition for his contributions to this forum !

Kenny






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mercedes_sl1970
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5040465 - 01/27/12 07:46 AM

Quote:

For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree that Simon deserves special recognition for his contributions to this forum !

Kenny




Agree too. I have certainly appreciated the thread. In these days of more and more disposable items the vintage and classic bino thread is very refreshing.

Andrew


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alsendk
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5040909 - 01/27/12 12:57 PM

Absolutely
It is so very joyful for me, to try take in all that knowledge, wisdom, and technical skill, that Simon Spiers is giving away here.
But also Signore Bensi, and mr.Potts- FrankL....actually everybody here should be mentioned and celebrated for their tribute for making this place here very special.
Thank you all
Allan

Edited by alsendk (01/27/12 01:04 PM)


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: alsendk]
      #5041314 - 01/27/12 04:44 PM

Thank you for all your kind comments it means a great deal to me. I would also mention Frank and Marco's huge contributions to the tread.

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FrankL
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Reged: 07/30/09

Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5041644 - 01/27/12 08:29 PM

Thank you Alan and Simon. I really enjoy these older binoculars and love it when others enjoy them too. Simon, your posts and Flickr page had a lot to do with my starting to collect binoculars.
Frank


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: FrankL]
      #5043679 - 01/29/12 05:12 AM Attachment (179 downloads)

The Ross Porro II binocular is a very common find on the used market, I have several examples in my collection, this one having the Stepnite designation.
Some of the early examples in good condition are a good binocular, sharp and bright but often suffer from field to prism separation resulting is a speckled view in the eyepieces.

This binocular defiantly rates as one of the better binoculars in my collection just for it's superbly well corrected image. It Looks exactly the same a Army issue Bino Prism 7x50, but has coated optics and therefore a slightly brighter image (in theory). The view is in fact very bright, sharp and stays sharp almost to the edge of the field. It is strange this binocular can perform so well and other Ross models of this era and design are poor by comparison.



Edited by Simon S (01/29/12 02:49 PM)


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FrankL
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Reged: 07/30/09

Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Simon's Stepnite new [Re: Simon S]
      #5043922 - 01/29/12 10:40 AM

This is a great binocular. I have one made 1935-37 without coated optics and like yours sharpness to edge is much better than many other Ross and Barr&Stoud Porro II's I've seen. Compared to two circa 1950's Steplux 7X50's I've had (the Steplux is the CF version of the Stepnite) the Steplux had a little brighter image due to their coated optics (the Stepnite is still exceptionally good for uncoated, though), but the Steplux sharpness to edge was not nearly as good. This softness at the edge can be focused out with the center then going soft indicating it is due to curvature.

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Simon S
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Re: Simon's Stepnite new [Re: FrankL]
      #5043949 - 01/29/12 11:00 AM

Frank I have just won a pair of B&L mk28's. They need a few bits, eye cups etc but I have a source for those. I am rather excited at the moment!

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jhubs
member


Reged: 01/29/12

Re: Simon's Stepnite new [Re: Simon S]
      #5044396 - 01/29/12 03:20 PM

Hello everyone! I am awestruck by the combined knowledge contained in this thread,so after a bit of lurking (and learning) I have finally signed up. This was prompted by a recent meeting with simon (glad you like the customs!)who suggested this thread/forum.
As a long term binoholic with a taste for fine vintages surely there can be no better place.Anyway congratulations on those mk28's simon,superb instrument its a sobering thought that lives depended on these binos and the people that used them.Good find.


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's Stepnite new [Re: jhubs]
      #5044418 - 01/29/12 03:29 PM

Hi Jhubs glad you could join us. Lots of info and interesting people on here, all interested in binoculars of various vintages and designs.
This thread was only started this week but the previous thread can be found here http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3368654/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1


Edited by Simon S (01/29/12 03:50 PM)


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Pinewood
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Re: Simon's Stepnite new [Re: Simon S]
      #5044623 - 01/29/12 05:34 PM

Quote:

Frank I have just won a pair of B&L mk28's. They need a few bits, eye cups etc but I have a source for those. I am rather excited at the moment!



Hello Simon,

The Mk 28 was my third binocular, which I bought new in the original box, wrapped in metal foil. That purchase was made, 27 years, ago.

Happy collecting,
Arthur


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FrankL
sage


Reged: 07/30/09

Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5045140 - 01/29/12 10:51 PM

You've certainly been busy lately!

Once you get the Mk 28's place them on a table next to your beloved Nikon Tropical 7X50. If your Tropical is like my likewise beloved Tropical, it will be externally almost indistinguishable from the Mk 28 having what appear to be the same dimensions, same shaped prism plates, same size objective caps etc. Both are great binoculars too. I think the Mk 28 with coated optics has to be in optical and build quality one of the best mass-produced 7X50's in WWII.


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BillC
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankL]
      #5045201 - 01/29/12 11:40 PM

Simon:

for new EP cups, contact Captain's. I had several made to original specs -- all that really matters are the threads -- out of plastic. And, they should have plenty left in pnenolic, too.

BillC, out


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankL]
      #5045366 - 01/30/12 02:50 AM

Thanks Bill Surplus Shed have all the parts but thanks anyway.
I wonder if it will be as good as the Nikon, I think it will be close.


Edited by Simon S (01/30/12 03:18 AM)


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BillC
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5045605 - 01/30/12 10:19 AM

Structurally, close; there was a war on. Optically, not even.

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alsendk
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Loc: Denmark
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankL]
      #5045849 - 01/30/12 12:27 PM

Please put on a picture of the Mk28
I am getting very curious now to know more.
Is it a german binocular?

hilsen
Allan


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5045869 - 01/30/12 12:36 PM

No Allen Bausch and Lomb 7x50's. They are not here yet, but rest assured they will be on as soon as I receive them.

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jhubs
member


Reged: 01/29/12

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5045870 - 01/30/12 12:36 PM

It would be fun to fit the scruffiest mk28 you could find with prostar optics then pass it around at a optics demo day. Ooh the mischief!

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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5045878 - 01/30/12 12:39 PM

I'm not convinced the difference will be that great. But it's been a while since I got the tropical's out so I might start digging this evening.

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Jay_Bird
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5046153 - 01/30/12 03:28 PM

I understand Bill's caution about glass - I've seen old large-format camera lenses with imperfections, even a ~1/32 inch bubble in the front element of an Aero-Ektar, but nothing that obvious in the few older visual optics I've looked through.

All I can say about the Mk 28 is that a "coated optics" example is nicer for astronomy than the current $100 range Chinese, and pretty good c. 1970s Japanese, center focus models that I can compare it with. The B&L really opens up the Milky Way from a dark site.


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FrankKD
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Reged: 09/10/08

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Jay_Bird]
      #5049565 - 02/01/12 10:38 AM

My contribution for the day to this thread. I picked up a Swift Holiday Mark II (Bak-4 prisms) a couple of weeks ago via the bay for the paltry sum of $35. Excellent overall condition minus some fungus in the left barrel. I will probably have it cleaned at some point but it isn't affecting the view from what I can tell.

Excellent optical performance in the areas of apparent sharpness, apparent brightness and, of course, field of view. The sweet spot seems good but not great at around 65% of the field of view. More compact than the Swift Sport King circa 1965 that I have on hand with a more neutral color representation.

I took some pics via my cell phone but they certainly don't do the binocular justice.



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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankKD]
      #5049816 - 02/01/12 01:02 PM

Nice Swift Frank, looks in mint condition. Are you collecting old Japanese binoculars too?

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FrankKD
member


Reged: 09/10/08

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5049912 - 02/01/12 02:06 PM

Yes. Those are my primary interest as they seem the most readily available in the US market and are vastly overlooked by the current roof prism craze. For that I am thankful as there are so many people out there that don't know what they are missing.

A relatively updated list of those models is found on my flickr page linked below.

From the traditional vintage porro list the Sears Discoverers are probably my favorites though each of the ones in my selection have something specific that makes them appealing. More recent, but out of production, porro favorites would be the Nikon WF and Golden Ring 7x35s.


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankKD]
      #5049925 - 02/01/12 02:14 PM

Ahh that is you! I wondered. Your on a very slippery slope now!
You need a Audubon or two to become a true Japanese binocular collector though.


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binman
sage


Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: UK
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5051230 - 02/02/12 08:46 AM Attachment (65 downloads)

picked up one of these yesterday in really nice condition, USSR made 8x30 monocular. i've heard a lot said about how good these are so thought i'de search one out. this ones dated 1982 from the serial number.
lovely little tool


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BillC
on a new path
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: binman]
      #5051532 - 02/02/12 12:02 PM

I wonder why they used PART of a roof prism system as a design on the backplate of a Porro-based instriment?

BillC


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5051572 - 02/02/12 12:15 PM

Nice find Binman. Thats a KOMZ monocular, see this link.

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binman
sage


Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: UK
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5051587 - 02/02/12 12:22 PM

the optical performance is i think pretty good! i paid with postage £15 i also picked up a pair of komz 8x30 binoculars also dated 1982 for £14 with postage and luckily there what i class "a good pair" ie nice build/assembly and selection of parts and well put together/collimated so will be keeping them as well

maybe "82" was a good year for soviet binoculars?


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Rich V.
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5051593 - 02/02/12 12:27 PM

Quote:

I wonder why they used PART of a roof prism system as a design on the backplate of a Porro-based instriment?

BillC




Bill, it would appear that the semi-penta prism diagram is part of KOMZ's logo!

http://www.baigish.ru/eng/about_comp/

Rich V


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5051705 - 02/02/12 01:16 PM

Here is a link to some common Russian emblem.
http://cameras.alfredklomp.com/logos/


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BillC
on a new path
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Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5051715 - 02/02/12 01:25 PM

"Bill, it would appear that the semi-penta prism diagram is part of KOMZ's logo!"

Still, interesting; thanks, Rich.

BillC


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jhubs
member


Reged: 01/29/12

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5051959 - 02/02/12 03:39 PM

Russian binoculars must be one of the best bargains in used optics,I seem to be a bit of a magnet for them! Sometimes you get a hand signed Q.C certificate stuffed in the stinky leather case,nice touch I have pair of the 7x35 roofs that look like a notarem knock off they are unbelievably light and optically great(better than the notarems)I wonder if they use mirrors instead of prisms?

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BillC
on a new path
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Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5052001 - 02/02/12 04:08 PM

Well if they are mirrors, you better hope you never have a reason to go inside!

Welcome to Cloudy Nights.

Bill


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5052087 - 02/02/12 05:01 PM

Jhubs, no they do use prisms and I have a pair at work that people use for bird spotting at lunch..
Bill you might give people a chance. Sarcasm is not constructive, if this thread annoys or irritates you let us muddle through. I understand your knowledge and experience is vast in comparison to ours but let us voice our opinions.


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jhubs
member


Reged: 01/29/12

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5052094 - 02/02/12 05:02 PM

Thanks for the kind welcome Bill!
I would love to learn to clean/service some of the pairs I have picked up over the years but collimation just downright terrifies me! I think listening to you guys here may be what I need to overcome my "phobia". Is there a good book on the subject you could recommend?


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Simon S
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5052133 - 02/02/12 05:26 PM

jhubs get a cheap binocular and try. Nothing to loose.

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jhubs
member


Reged: 01/29/12

Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5052141 - 02/02/12 05:31 PM

I thought they might have been designed around the old leitz amplivid system ah well! nothing but plain jane Schmidt-pechan then!

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BillC
on a new path
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Reged: 06/04/04

Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5052261 - 02/02/12 06:51 PM

Quote:

Jhubs, no they do use prisms and I have a pair at work that people use for bird spotting at lunch..
Bill you might give people a chance. Sarcasm is not constructive, if this thread annoys or irritates you let us muddle through. I understand your knowledge and experience is vast in comparison to ours but let us voice our opinions.




Simon:

There is a difference between having fun and being sarcastic. That's why the "curmudgeon" was invented. You have seen VERY few times when I have really been sarcastic.

If I were truly annoyed, I wouldn't be here; most folks KNOW that.

However, if I have offended you with my tongue in cheek ways, I certainly am sorry. I want to save all my sarcasm for nameless people . . . like, say, Marco!

BillC


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Pinewood
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Reged: 12/07/04

Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
Russian 7x35 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5052314 - 02/02/12 07:25 PM

Quote:

Russian binoculars must be one of the best bargains in used optics,I seem to be a bit of a magnet for them! Sometimes you get a hand signed Q.C certificate stuffed in the stinky leather case,nice touch I have pair of the 7x35 roofs that look like a notarem knock off they are unbelievably light and optically great(better than the notarems)I wonder if they use mirrors instead of prisms?



Hello J,

I used one of those, this week, to look at buffleheads in Central Park. They are certainly not extraordinary but are very usable, even without phase coating.
I think that those ubiquitous Chinese binoculars are providing better value and better optics, forcing those older Russian designs off the market.

Clear skies,
Arthur Pinewood


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hallelujah
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Re: Russian 7x35 new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5052325 - 02/02/12 07:33 PM

Quote:

I think that those ubiquitous Chinese binoculars are providing better value and better optics, forcing those older Russian designs off the market.

Arthur Pinewood




I certainly hope not.
Even though I only own one USSR made Tento 20x60 binocular I would not mind having more USSR binos in the future.

Stan


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Binojunky
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Re: Russian 7x35 new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5052358 - 02/02/12 07:55 PM

I recently tried to sell a Russian Foton 7x35 roof prism ,never got a sniff, think I was asking $50 and that included shipping, I also have a Russian 20x60, 8x30 monocular, 10x30 Tourist telescope and a nice Galileon 4x36, most of these are pre USSR collapse, some with leather cases, certificates etc, a few yrs back I also had a Tento 7x50,also worth mentioning that the Russians make some very nice mechanical watches of which I own several, also I have a couple of Russian mechanical cockpit clocks, I was in the RAF, cold war era and had a sneeky admiration for the Russians, however I never voiced it at that time for obvious reasons, Dave.

Edited by Binojunky (02/02/12 07:57 PM)


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binman
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Re: Russian 7x35 new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5052879 - 02/03/12 05:38 AM

Quote:

I recently tried to sell a Russian Foton 7x35 roof prism ,never got a sniff, think I was asking $50 and that included shipping, I also have a Russian 20x60, 8x30 monocular, 10x30 Tourist telescope and a nice Galileon 4x36, most of these are pre USSR collapse, some with leather cases, certificates etc, a few yrs back I also had a Tento 7x50,also worth mentioning that the Russians make some very nice mechanical watches of which I own several, also I have a couple of Russian mechanical cockpit clocks, I was in the RAF, cold war era and had a sneeky admiration for the Russians, however I never voiced it at that time for obvious reasons, Dave.




i wouldnt pay much for them, they are good but with iffy QC and build you take a chance, the charm is getting them so cheap! i probably bought 4 or 5 pairs to get a good set 2 or 3 years ago! i made the mistake of selling them though, but i got very lucky with the set i bought a few days ago. a couple years ago you could pick up russian/ussr made 8x30's for under £10 on the internet auction sights which ment you could buy a few and pick out the best then sell the rest or give them away.
nowadays people want £30 £40 or even £65 plus! for a set of 8x30's.
there not as good optically as the carl ziess jena 8x30's but they are tougher
i held out for a badly listed set of 8x30's and paid £10 for them plus a little for postage


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FrankKD
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5053129 - 02/03/12 09:55 AM

Quote:

Ahh that is you! I wondered. Your on a very slippery slope now!
You need a Audubon or two to become a true Japanese binocular collector though.




I had one of the earlier Audubons Simon. Excellent glass for a variety of obvious reasons. My issue with that particular version though was the eyecup design. I need to completely remove the metal eyecups in order to see the full field of view on most of these models. This particular Audubon had the twist-up metal eyecups and I could not find a way to easily remove them. They found a good home now though with a fellow BF member. I believe his most recent comment on them was something along the lines of "...being buried with them.".



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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: FrankKD]
      #5053166 - 02/03/12 10:20 AM

I just sold reluctantly a very nice Japan made earlier one piece bodied Pentax 8x40 porro, lovely binocular with the american style body, the reason?,short eye relief, even with the eyecups folded down I lost most of the view if I left my glasses on, I had bought a couple of years back a Nikon Action Ex in the same size as the Pentax and found it to be the one I reach for when needing a 8x40 glass, Dave.

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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5053698 - 02/03/12 03:40 PM

Did they have the orange coatings? Later models reverted to normal coatings. I quite like them both but sadly the orange coating models performed better but with a green tinge, although subtle was off putting.

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Binojunky
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5054596 - 02/04/12 06:36 AM

Mine had the normal coatings with a wide angle view, however like most wide angle models the edge of view got a bit soft, Dave.

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alsendk
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Lieberman & Gortz 21x47 new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5055137 - 02/04/12 01:16 PM

Does anybody know if these binoculars are suitable for stargazing ?
They should be from the fifthies and have some sort of coatings.
Auction ends in 9 minutes :O)


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brentwood
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Re: Lieberman & Gortz 21x47 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055172 - 02/04/12 01:41 PM

I watched the launch of Apollo 11 in 1969 with a borrowed Lieberman & Gortz 35x60. They had the extra benefit of being able to see the launch pad with the left side of the binocular and at the same time, with the right side I was able to see bikini babes on the beach!
Put another way, the collimation error was not measured in degrees, minutes or seconds but in compass directions.
The chance of those being even remotely collimated would be pretty slim.


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Simon S
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Re: Lieberman & Gortz 21x47 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055173 - 02/04/12 01:41 PM

Link! Quick!

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Re: Lieberman & Gortz 21x47 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055178 - 02/04/12 01:43 PM

No no good at all!

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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5055182 - 02/04/12 01:46 PM

Quote:

Thanks for the kind welcome Bill!
I would love to learn to clean/service some of the pairs I have picked up over the years but collimation just downright terrifies me! I think listening to you guys here may be what I need to overcome my "phobia". Is there a good book on the subject you could recommend?




Yes, The Navy's OM3 & 2. There are many devices and techniques. Many, though I refuse to relate them to TRUE collimation, will serve ONE observer JUST FINE.

Send me your real email address, and I will send you more info. < wjc 1111 (at sign) hotmail dot com >

Cheers,

Bill

PS One need not scared at all. 'Just patient, cautious, and willing to learn.


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alsendk
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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: BillC]
      #5055252 - 02/04/12 02:31 PM

No, no good at all.
I was on Ebay.uk, but they really looked quite miserable, and the eye pieces was missing.
I wouldn`t mind look at the bikini girls, but a look at the moon at the same time would make me sick.
I better save my money for a Zeiss 15x50 Simon?


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alsendk
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Auction in Switzerland new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055262 - 02/04/12 02:41 PM

There is an auction site in Switzerland, called: RICARDO:CH
they have quite many german and swiss binoculars for auction there.
I just bought a Kern/Leica armee 8x30 there.
You just need to sigh up, and a entrance code will be sent to your residence,and you are free to go.

Am I making a fool of myself? you know about this place already? :O¤
If so, forgive me


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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055299 - 02/04/12 03:08 PM

I would go for a maximum of 10X in a 50 mm objective. Read up about exit pupil sizes. Try a Jenoptem 10x50 as a good start to 50mm binoculars in the classic range. Look for a t3m coated version.

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alsendk
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Steiner 15x80 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5055334 - 02/04/12 03:32 PM

Thank you for your valuable information Simon, but can I please ask you one more?
tomorrow on Ebay.de
there will be a Steiner marine fernglas 15x80 for sale at 11:25:38 sunday
could this be useful for astronomy on lower level also?


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Re: Steiner 15x80 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5055351 - 02/04/12 03:45 PM

I cant really coment as I do not know this binocular. A good 15x50 would be great though but a tripod would be needed.

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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5055390 - 02/04/12 04:06 PM

Have you read the very long, locked, then unlocked, then again locked , thread about this topic which developed last year? It must have set a record for thread length. I contributed a lot to it and to its sequels and predecessors, including a low-cost projection laser aligner for binoculars.

You should wish to make the optical axes of each barrel parallel to each other and to the hinge axis. In this condition, the optical axes will be parallel to each other at any interpupillary distance (IPD). If the optical axes are parallel at one IPD, presumably set by you at your personal IPD, without being parallel to the hinge , then they are parallel at only that IPD. This has been called "conditional alignment".

So-called "collimation" has several meanings, depending upon the context. For binoculars, it would be better to call it unconditional alignment, or 3-way parallelism, or 3-axis parallelism, because:

Collimation of a monocular Newtonian telescope, or a monocular refractor or a catadioptric such as a Cass. or a Schmidt-Cass. has been made possible by the Cheshire eyepiece, the sight tube, and recent laser collimators. Here, collimation means proper alignment of the components of the monocular instrument.


Has anyone heard of attempts to collimate the components of one side of a binocular, before conditionally, or unconditionally ( so called "collimating") aligning that barrel to the other barrel?

If a 2-hinge Porro II instrument such as the Nikon 20 x 120,or similar WW II Japanese military binoculars, or the Fuji 25 x 150 or 15 x 80, or some of the straight view Kowa 20 x 120, or the prewar Zeiss mounted binocular telescopes, or the postwar DDR Zeiss Jena versions, or the Chinese copies/near copies have been disassembled in the prism region without retention of the (hopefully) factory correct position of the prisms , it is a good idea to attempt to collimate the affected barrel within itself,and to its own IPD change bearing axis, before attempting alignment of that telescope to its mate on the other side of the body.

A long reach comparator , such as the JTII rhomboidal or something similar,with or without an attached auxiliary telescope, to peek round the prism drum and body anywhere in a large angular swing , even 360 deg., is a big help in attaining an approximation to alignment of one barrel to its own rotating IPD change axis. At the same time, an attempt should be made to keep that telescope optically collimated. One thus gets an idea of the problems confronting the designers, production personnel, the factory assemblers, and ,one hopes, repair people who may eventually have a role in the life of a binocular telescope , be it single hinge bearing, or double hinge bearing.

Once a monocular half of a binocular telescope has been collimated, it is a very difficult mechanical/opto-mechanical proposition to attempt to exactly align the optical axis of a similarly collimated scope to the first one, without departing from collimation within one or both of the telescopes .

Therefore, it is a misnomer to call 3- axis alignment of a binocular "collimation". Though the collimation departures within each telescope may be small in the very best grade of binocular instruments, a departure from collimation within one or both telescopes of the binocular, even if one or both were originally collimated, is inevitably a result of 3-axis parallelism achievement. The difference may or may not be negligible.


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Re: Simon's B&L Mk 28 new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5055415 - 02/04/12 04:18 PM

Wow! Thanks Gorgon, I understood some of that!

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hallelujah
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Re: Steiner 15x80 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5055431 - 02/04/12 04:41 PM

Quote:

I cant really comment as I do not know this binocular.




Simon,

Here's one of the Steiner 15x80's sold in the USA.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/50495-USA/Steiner_415_15x80_Military_Binocular.html

Stan


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alsendk
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Re: Steiner 15x80 new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5057033 - 02/05/12 02:56 PM

I didn`t get the Sreiner 15x80 on Ebay.de.
The guy selling the bin had another cover up identity, who popped up the price to extremes.
is this legal?
I think it`s unfair business


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Re: Steiner 15x80 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5057074 - 02/05/12 03:26 PM

It happens. No it's not legal but you need to prove the same person is upping the bids and then inform ebay.
I would not discuss it further on CN as moderators may well intervene.
Look for another pair Alan, I know how you feel though.


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jhubs
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Re: Simon's B&amp;L Mk 28 new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5057296 - 02/05/12 05:57 PM

Thanks Gordon. I found the thread on the mk.V collimator and gave it a quick scan,what has always confused me about alignment/collimation has been aligning the optical axis with the mechanical axis, now it makes sense.Good stuff!

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planetmalc
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Re: Steiner 15x80 new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5058199 - 02/06/12 10:54 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I cant really comment as I do not know this binocular.




Simon,

Here's one of the Steiner 15x80's sold in the USA.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/50495-USA/Steiner_415_15x80_Military_Binocular.html

Stan




I tried a Steiner 15 x 80 during daylight and it was a good performer, but the guy who had it reckoned that it didn't show much more than a Fuji 16 x 70 at night. The Steiner was difficult to hand-hold due to the fattish barrels and length/weight. I eventually bought the Fuji and haven't been disappointed.


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planetmalc
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5058212 - 02/06/12 11:06 AM

Quote:

After almost two thousand posts to the old "Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussions" thread it is time to start a new one before the forum software has a heart attack!

To kick things off here are a couple of pictures of my Swift Audubon 804ED (8.5x44). Not a vintage binocular (mine was manufactured in 1996) but a Swift collector might call it a classic. Very sharp on axis and a decently wide field of view (~8.2°) too.




Richard McC, I used my Audubon ED 8.5 x 44's this weekend and noticed that the right-hand top-plate is slightly different to yours: where yours says 'SWIFT', mine has the same red 'ED' logo that's lower down on yours, and 'SWIFT' is nowhere to be seen (it only appears on the left-hand top-plate). Everything else is the same. My serial number is 940466.


Yours fast becoming a Swift geek,

Malc

Edited by planetmalc (02/06/12 11:09 AM)


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Richard McC
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5059750 - 02/07/12 05:24 AM

Malc, I've seen pictures of other Swift 804ED binoculars with markings like yours, s.g., in this PDF from the "Historical Review of Swift 804 Audubon Binoculars" thread on BirdForum. I believe the differences are purely cosmetic.

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5063993 - 02/09/12 03:11 PM

Just found this Nikon on ebay, looks like a Pentax Marine / B&L M3! Never seen this model before, a baby tropical maybe?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/very-rare-NIKON-BINOCULARS-6x30-IF-NIPPON-KOGAKU-1959-MUSEUM-QUALITY-CASE-/150738392549?pt=Binocular&hash=item2318b555e5


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jhubs
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5064074 - 02/09/12 03:57 PM

That looks sweet simon 8.5 degrees from a 6x30,nice! if its as good as the tropical it could be the best 6x30 ever made. I have never seen one before and if I had the spare funds I would be all over it! Go on buy it. so I don't have to.

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FrankL
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5064081 - 02/09/12 04:04 PM

Quote:

Just found this Nikon on ebay, looks like a Pentax Marine / B&L M3! Never seen this model before, a baby tropical maybe?



I think it was called the Tenyu (which may mean "tropical in Japanese). Just as Nikon's early 7X50 Tropical build is very like the Mk 28's I've heard this one's like the WWII Universal Mk XXXIII 6X30.


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: FrankL]
      #5064118 - 02/09/12 04:33 PM

Very interesting. It does look like the Nikon models such as these are a copy of those m# binoculars as did Pentax.

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jhubs
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5064156 - 02/09/12 05:07 PM

I think the pentax marine series were manufactured by Katsuma Kogaku Kikai ,it would be interesting to find out if these nikons have a jb/je code. The seller states a manufacturing date of 1959 so I guess it might not have one, but then again I am not sure if nikon ever outsourced binocular manufacturing like pentax did/does my guess is the nikon predates the pentax but I am sure someone on here will know for sure.

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jhubs
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: FrankL]
      #5064219 - 02/09/12 05:55 PM

Here are some nice nikko/nippon kogaku binoculars.

http://akiroom.com/redbook-e/kenkyukai10b/kenkyukai201010.html


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: jhubs]
      #5065421 - 02/10/12 12:57 PM

Jhubs, if I had the money I would be very tempted.

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anyan
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5071990 - 02/14/12 12:24 PM

Regarding your suggestion, I sent my Zeiss 7x50 B to Zeiss Sport Optics Germany. But unfortunately after did nothing (reason: no parts), they sent them back to me . The condition of the internal is dirty (fungus) & the rubber eyecups are torn. Any suggest from any membes?

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Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: anyan]
      #5072178 - 02/14/12 01:59 PM Attachment (64 downloads)

My latest binocular is a very poorly Busch Marlux 7x50.
This central focusing binocular is in a poor state, I have never seen fungus so bad as this. All the external leatherette has started to peal, and despite this poor old binocular being so badly stored the glass is unmarked although some staining from the fungus will always remain on the internals of the objectives and prisms.
The tough job for me is to try and replace the covering over the binoculars chassis, I have bought some camera leatherette that looks very similar to the original stuff.
Notice the strange cutout of the top prisms, similar to a few of the wide angle Dollonds and Wrays, but more severe.
You will also note that each handed part, prisms, objectives etc are marked from which position they come from.


There is also an amusing comment from a Zeiss employee who tried a pair of these binoculars , see Peter's German 7x50 page here http://www.europa.com/~telscope/7x50.txt

Edited by Simon S (02/14/12 04:19 PM)


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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072180 - 02/14/12 02:01 PM Attachment (70 downloads)

Dismantled, first cleaning stage and ready for the covering.....

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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072182 - 02/14/12 02:02 PM Attachment (67 downloads)

What i'm up against...

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smart
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: anyan]
      #5072188 - 02/14/12 02:05 PM

Baker Marine in San Diego, Calif. should be able to repair your Zeiss 7x50. They are an excellent repair facility and their prices are fair.

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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072231 - 02/14/12 02:40 PM

Quote:

What i'm up against...




Simon I've done several jobs were I had to completely disassemble because of dust/dirt but so far haven't had to contend with fungus.

What I'm curious about is when dealing with fungus is if the glass is fully restorable or if the fungus "etches" the glass.

Thanks Steve


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Leitz or Busch? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072373 - 02/14/12 04:06 PM

Quote:

My latest binocular is a very poorly Leitz Marlux 7x50.




Simon,

Is that not a Busch binocular?

Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz or Busch? new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5072396 - 02/14/12 04:18 PM

Oh Bl**dy hell!
Yes It is what an idiot, thats because i'm repairing two at a time. Thanks Pinewood!


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz or Busch? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072402 - 02/14/12 04:25 PM

Steve re fungus.
It really depends on the type of fungus.
The nasty stuff seen here eats coatings and stains glass.
I have managed to restore bad staining to some degree with car polish, but as a last resort. There is a product called Mer available in the UK but I would not recommend this action unless the glass is uncoated and in a bad way.

There are other forms of fungus that look like spider webs. These do little if any damage and are removed with an alcohol based cleaner.


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alsendk
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Re: Leitz or Busch? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5072455 - 02/14/12 05:18 PM

I am surprised that glass can become attacked by fungus in almost the same way as a wet house basement, crawling up the walls like veins.
Indeed it looks bad:O(


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mercedes_sl1970
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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5073114 - 02/15/12 01:39 AM

Quote:

What i'm up against...




Fingers crossed... I cleaned up a Rolleiflex taking lens once with about half the amount of fungus you have and it seems fine - no discernible etching and the 6x6 negatives were still very sharp under a loupe.

Andrew


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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5074062 - 02/15/12 04:25 PM Attachment (55 downloads)

Well I have fitted the leatherette and internal parts, prisms, baffles and covers. The only remaining problem is a stripped thread on one objective bell, meaning you cant tighten the objective housing without it slipping. This was a result of someone forcing the threat without removing the set screw that locks the thread.
I will try them tomorrow, but I don't expect to much.
Simple two element eye pieces usually mean a poorly corrected image, tomorrow will tell.

Edited by Simon S (02/15/12 04:40 PM)


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jhubs
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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5075592 - 02/16/12 02:04 PM

Nice job simon! It must be hugely satisfying to bring these beautiful old instruments back from the dead,I have a pair of 8x30 kern pizars that look like they have been home to funnel web for the last 30 years, maybe they are not beyond salvation.Can anything be done to prevent the fungus coming back?

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Simon S
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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: jhubs]
      #5075765 - 02/16/12 04:06 PM

Hi Jon, the Kern is a great binocular.
Keeping fungus clear is easy.
My collection is monitored with a hygrometer, anything less than 60% and I have a problem. A cool environment helps but damp is a killer.


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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5075962 - 02/16/12 06:28 PM

Hi Simon,
How difficult is the job of removing the old leatherette, cleaning the residue of glue, and then fitting the new leatherette? What glue do you use to affix the new leatherette?
Phil


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Simon S
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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Philip Levine]
      #5076588 - 02/17/12 07:56 AM

Phil, removal of the old hard and brittle covering is fairly easy although time consuming. I made a template from a sheet of paper and used this to trace out the shape on the replacement covering. You only need to do one template as flipping the paper 180º caters for the other side amusing it is identical(although reversed).
The replacement covering is self adhesive, so no messy glue. Once the prism covers are in place I left the chassis in a warm oven to let the covering relax and then gave it a final squeeze to ensure all the valleys where stuck down.


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Simon S
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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5080535 - 02/19/12 03:58 PM

At last I have a pair of Bushnell Rangemasters!
Should be good, they carry the FPO logo.


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brentwood
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Re: Busch Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5080987 - 02/19/12 07:56 PM

I'll be interested to see a photo of them Simon. I think that the last ones I bought are the FPO ones, and they may be the best of the three different ones I have.

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mercedes_sl1970
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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5081094 - 02/19/12 09:07 PM

Quote:

What i'm up against...




Hi Simon - how did you go with removing the fungus? Interested to hear your results - and what are your secret ingredients...

Andrew


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5081434 - 02/20/12 02:38 AM

Brentwood, I will post a photo when they arrive.
Phil , Andy & Steve, removal of the fungus is not difficult but the staining on the glass afterwards is. I find a car polish seems to help, I use a product called mer which seems to also seems to have no detrimental effect on the glass whatsoever.

Edited by Simon S (02/20/12 10:25 AM)


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anyan
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: smart]
      #5081609 - 02/20/12 09:10 AM

Thanks Smart. But now I try to do the repair by myself after Zeiss Germany did nothing & sent them back to me.

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anyan
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: anyan]
      #5081677 - 02/20/12 09:52 AM

Already remove the prisms set from the left hand barrel. Already remove the objective glasses from the left hand barrel. There is a little problem, the objective glasses consist of two lens/glass, and there is water trap between them. I am thinking how to assemble the objective glasses. Anyone can enlighten me?

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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: anyan]
      #5081722 - 02/20/12 10:21 AM

Anyan, what is the exact model (photograph)?
Are you sure it is water?


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz Marlux 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5081739 - 02/20/12 10:31 AM

I tried the Marlux out today, I still need to resolve the problem with the objective bell, but the image is very good. Sharp and well controlled to at least 75% of the FOV. Bright too for an uncoated binocular, partly due to the fact of a simple two element ocular maybe?

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FrankL
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: anyan]
      #5081741 - 02/20/12 10:32 AM

This is a Ross X5 Mk IV currently being sold on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350536716633?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
This is a Flickr page photograph of the Ross X5 Mk IV in my collection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/5641607326/in/set-72157623234405689
Look similar??? I wrote to the seller asking if the pictured binocular was the one for sale. He replied that it wasn't because he hadn't received the actual binocular yet. Didn't happen to mention that in the auction description, however. Probably this practice doesn't violate the auction site's policies but it's still pretty shabby. The price he's asking is absurd too. I paid a small fraction of it for mine. I only wish it was worth that much.


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hallelujah
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: FrankL]
      #5081790 - 02/20/12 11:11 AM

Quote:

I wrote to the seller asking if the pictured binocular was the one for sale. He replied that it wasn't because he hadn't received the actual binocular yet. Didn't happen to mention that in the auction description, however. Probably this practice doesn't violate the auction site's policies but it's still pretty shabby.




It's worth reporting to ebay.


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Simon S
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5081834 - 02/20/12 11:40 AM

Frank, I have had two sellers use my photographs to sell their binoculars, I always send them a sharp note regarding copyright.
Yes even if it was in this condition, boxed and mint maybe £200 or so but that is ridiculous.


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alsendk
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: Simon S]
      #5081993 - 02/20/12 01:13 PM

Report it FrankL
I got my violater expelled into orbit.


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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: alsendk]
      #5082332 - 02/20/12 04:43 PM

I've seen several german binoculars with the brand name vergutet on some of the auction sites lately. Any members familiar with their build quality etc.

Thanks Steve


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Simon S
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5083858 - 02/21/12 01:51 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

One of my latest buys is from an ebay seller who posts on this thread.
This almost new condition Ross Spectaross, designed to be used mainly with glasses and is far better than the later models that replaced it in 1962.
It is sharp and bright and has sliding eyecups to cater for people without glasses when slid up, and down with. The rubber block against the forehead is comfortable and although it looks bizarre.
There is no dioptre trim as that would be taken care of in the spectacle prescription


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Simon S
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: Simon S]
      #5083964 - 02/21/12 02:50 PM

For those waiting to hear about the B&L Mk 28's bare with me....
The US based seller took 4 weeks to send me the wrong bloody binoculars.
I will keep you informed.


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jhubs
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Re: Buyer Beware new [Re: Simon S]
      #5084147 - 02/21/12 04:26 PM

I am glad you won these Simon,they are a fantastic set and I imagine that once you worked your magic on them they got even better! The brow pad works really well, I don't understand why modern binoculars omit this feature as holding them against your glasses is a bit of a compromise. Maybe some variant of the winged eyecup in a more solid rubber with the "wing" at the top to hold against ones brow would be a suitable after market solution,anyway its nice to see the Ross in the hall of fame!

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Simon S
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Rangemaster new [Re: brentwood]
      #5085727 - 02/22/12 02:30 PM Attachment (31 downloads)

Quote:

I'll be interested to see a photo of them Simon. I think that the last ones I bought are the FPO ones, and they may be the best of the three different ones I have.



Brentwood, the Bushnell Rangemaster arrived today, I have not had chance to re join the doublet eyelens yet but first impressions are a bit of a mixed bag.
The prisms are low index from what I can see through the exit pupil, and although one side of the binocular had very poor viewing due to the separation in the left eyelens , the right was sharp in the centre and with a good wide sweet spot. The image did look a bit brown in colour, maybe the prisms are dusty but they look fairly clear.
Will give them another look tomorrow once I have them rebuilt.
Interesting to see that binofans site refers to my exact model but his have high index BAk4 prisms.
http://binofan.co.cc/bino/rangem.htm

Edited by Simon S (02/22/12 02:44 PM)


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binman
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: Simon S]
      #5085845 - 02/22/12 03:42 PM

can anyone help identify these binoculars? i took a chance on them as thought they look russian??
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220953061058?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_500wt_1287


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brentwood
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: Simon S]
      #5085849 - 02/22/12 03:44 PM

Those look exactly the same as mine Simon, but mine have round exit pupils. When the weather is a bit better I'll have to do a comparison with the other two Rangemaster models I have together with my Fujinons.

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binman
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: brentwood]
      #5085872 - 02/22/12 03:56 PM

did a little digging through Simons flickr album and found a pair the same, chinese 8x30's?

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Simon S
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: binman]
      #5085876 - 02/22/12 03:57 PM

I was bidding on those. They are a Chinese 6x30 IF of good quality i'm fairly sure.

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binman
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: Simon S]
      #5085884 - 02/22/12 04:06 PM

i was reluctant to bid any more lol you could have had them for £22.
im not sure if the listing was for two identical sets? if it is i'll be selling one set and keeping the other. the listing says they are as new? i'll let you know when i get them, you'de be welcome to first dibs if i sell them.
what do the optics compare to? is the build any good with these?


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Simon S
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: binman]
      #5085946 - 02/22/12 04:38 PM

I was tempted. But I have spent too much already.
Let us know what you think, I think you will find them superior to the Russian 8x30's.

Edited by Simon S (02/23/12 06:57 AM)


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anyan
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5086598 - 02/23/12 12:19 AM

Simon, they are Zeiss 7x50B covered by rubber armor on the body and has a recticle in the right hand eyepiece.

You are absolutely right, they are superb, breath taking, the image is flat (no rolling ball effect) & the fov is very very wide. I try to take pics with my mobilephone camera as I don't have a camera, but the file is to big.

Problem solved, I found the way in, clean them up, now both the objective lenses are crystal clear.

The only problem now is the rubber eyecups.
Do you know where I can buy the new one for these Zeiss 7x50B? or any cloudy nights member knows how to buy the new rubber eyecups for Zeiss 7x50B?


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jhubs
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Re: Rangemaster new [Re: binman]
      #5086818 - 02/23/12 07:59 AM

Hi binman,they look like Chinese type 62's issued to the PLA until Recently. Some of the Chinese websites"dealextreme"etc were selling them for around £80,sharp but yellow and a nicer build quality than the Russian ones.

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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: anyan]
      #5088391 - 02/24/12 05:50 AM Attachment (44 downloads)

The Rangemaster is back together after rejoining the two lens elements.
View has a very wide sharp area. Image colour is warm and no obvious vignetting can be seen when using the binocular.

Edited by Simon S (02/24/12 05:51 AM)


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Foss
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5088591 - 02/24/12 09:55 AM

WTG on resurrecting the Rangemaster Simon. If you don't mind my asking, how did the seperated eyepiece lens problem present itself and how did you you troubleshoot?

Edited by Foss (02/24/12 09:56 AM)


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5088824 - 02/24/12 12:29 PM Attachment (34 downloads)

Thanks Foss.
Lens Sepperation can manifest itself in many ways, but in this case apart from looking horrible, it makes the view in the edge of the binocular ragged, loss on sharpness and sometimes a yellow tint to the view.


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BillC
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5089390 - 02/24/12 07:03 PM

When recentnting beware of breezes; lenses shatter when THEY feel like it!

BillC


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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: BillC]
      #5089961 - 02/25/12 08:24 AM Attachment (45 downloads)

i received both chinese 8x30's in the post today, both look brand new but unfortunately one set is out of collimation, there is also some rotational shift.
its a shame as properly collimated they would make an excellent binocular for the price optics arnt as good as my zeiss deltrintems but are comparable to russian 8x30's

they do have a graticule in the right eye piece in the form of a cross hair marked in 5 and 10 mil spacing

a few bad points... they stink of petrol and the leatherette leaves your fingers black after handling!


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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090046 - 02/25/12 09:52 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

another pic of the chinese binoculars

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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090047 - 02/25/12 09:52 AM Attachment (40 downloads)

last one showing the stuff they came with

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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090060 - 02/25/12 09:58 AM Attachment (36 downloads)

sorry one more showing the reticle

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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090134 - 02/25/12 10:40 AM

im giving serious thought to chopping the badly un collimated chinese 8x30's into monoculars?

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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090202 - 02/25/12 11:27 AM

Shame the quality control is bad because just from outward appearances the simple build looks quite rugged. I'm really curious about what they look like inside, how to handle the collimation issue, i.e. do they have eccentric rings or not, etc. Have you had them apart yet??? If not not maybe Simon has experience with these and could chime in. Simon??????

At any rate I may make my first Chinese binocular purchase. I think I'll look on ebay and scrounge one of these up, would like to have one of this type to see what I could do with it.

Steve

Edited by steve@37n83.9w (02/25/12 11:29 AM)


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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5090221 - 02/25/12 11:41 AM

they are rugged feeling binoculars everything feels smooth and firm to operate, optically they are above average. anti reflective coatings are thin would appear they are fully coated though.
it is a shame the collimation is so far out with one pair and with the added prism lean i doubt i could get them as good as they should be.


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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090270 - 02/25/12 12:16 PM

Quote:

they are rugged feeling binoculars everything feels smooth and firm to operate, optically they are above average. anti reflective coatings are thin would appear they are fully coated though.
it is a shame the collimation is so far out with one pair and with the added prism lean i doubt i could get them as good as they should be.




Several posters have been discussing lean/image rotation on SMarks post Questions Regarding Collimation/Alignment if you're thinking about whether or not you want to attempt a repair.

Didn't notice your earlier post about the specifics of your purchase so don't know if refund/replacement is an option for you. If you decide to let them go send me a PM, I've dealt with lean/image rotation in the past so that issue doesn't concern me.

Steve


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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5090291 - 02/25/12 12:29 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

its a bit late now for one pair lol, i now have another monocular added to my collection!

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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090380 - 02/25/12 01:35 PM

Another advantage of the IF Porro, if all goes wrong you still have the monocular option

Still wanting to pick up a pair to dig into so I'll see what I can find on ebay later. I'm curious about the quality of the view in your "new" monocular. Since collimation/image lean obviously isn't an issue now how would you rate the view. How far out in the fov till the image softens, any noticeable color tint/bias, etc.???

Steve


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binman
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5090452 - 02/25/12 02:23 PM

centre 50% field is sharp though not quite as good as a carl ziess jena 8x30 fov is i think 8 degree's from the hand book. i'de say a good match for the russian 8x30's. there is a slight warm tint to them.
the front prisms have no shield so stray light coming in is a problem when bright sky or sun is near the direction of view.
as you can see from the pic above i have two russian 8x30 monoculars one dated 82 and one 87 the earlier seems possibly slightly better optically? as you may or may not know these are highly regarded monoculars, my new chinese monocular though good is not quite as good as the russian one which seems a little sharper and controls stray light better with its shielded prisms. the russian ant reflective coatings are better as well.
i think though the chinese will be a better out door hunting tool being fully water proof with its re fillable decadent capsules and slightly more rugged build.


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5090494 - 02/25/12 03:01 PM

What techniques did you use: Separation via solvent immersion vs. risky heating? V-blocks for centering during recementing, vs. a rotating lens chuck with a target collimator under the chuck and a telescope above the chuck ( not needed with well-centered (during their edge grinding at the factory) elements)?

UV curable,including sunlight, cement, or ?


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5090571 - 02/25/12 03:54 PM

I used a UV curing glue.
1 After cleaning I use a spot of glue on the concave surface of the lens then merge the second lens.
2 Apply some pressure to migrate the glue to the edge of the lens.
3 A suitable short wide rubber band centres both lenses and allow them to settle for a minute.
4 Then when im happy , I fix them with a black light.
V blocks are difficult to use I find, this seems a good way to do it.


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5090658 - 02/25/12 04:45 PM

What is difficult about two good machinist/industrial inspection v-blocks?

They can also be used to support small, low power telescopes , such as the 5x20 golf scope with reticle. The flat ground surfaces allow them to slide laterally , without tilting, on a flat surface with a raised flat edge, to check for and measure on the reticle, if desired, two-axis alignment and image rotation(lean).

Be sure that all cement has been removed from the blocks, between uses. The blocks are removed from the lens after a fixation pre-cure, to clean the lens edge. The blocks can be solvent wiped at the same time. Then, shine the UV lamp on the lens with/without the v-blocks, to finish the job.

I have never used, nor heard of, a rubber band alone for centering. It may work, but how to get uniform circumferental tension in the band? Inequality there means an off-center push.

Instead, why not use two V-blocks with a rubber band around them, rather than directly around the lens components?


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5090681 - 02/25/12 04:55 PM

Gordon it may work but V blocks are useless when one lens is slightly smaller than the other.
Oh, do you want to sell your Rangemasters?


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: binman]
      #5090693 - 02/25/12 05:00 PM

I bought an M3 B&L many years ago with a shattered objective.
Cut it in half and now the monocular lives in the car glove compartment, great idea for an otherwise useless instrument.


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5090773 - 02/25/12 05:48 PM

Which Rangemasters do you seek? I have two or three of the widest field , more field than FPO or Tamron I, sloped shoulder , robust central focus mechanism Tamron II ( so I call them) version, and the Tamron I (?) with the flat, "normal" prism housing cover discussed in a recent thread (not in this thread). I do not have any of the FPO version. Clearly, I do not need all of those. All are good performers. So ,I should trade or sell sometime. Negotiation , if any, would not be appropriate here. Probably a TOS violation. One might get deleted . Is PM commonly used for this purpose? Or via other e-mail? I have not checked the S&S department for a long time, at least a year .

Why do you want multiple specimens? Accumulation/ Investment? Sales? Use? Trade goods?

You have probably read the interview with Mr. Bushnell (RIP) in the Abrahams forum. Google "Bushnell Rangemaster". Early Bushnell employee Bill Levin sold to me a rare fixed focus 6x42 wide field ( Kodak, I think, not Sard) for the P-61 Black Widow WW II Northrop radar equipped night fighter. I let it go at
RTMC at least 20 years ago. I suspect that it is the one in the Fan Tao site.
I lunched with David Bushnell and one of the Kamakura family at the 2003 Abrahams convention in San Diego.

I met Yoshi Sato or Satoh (Tamron, Bushnell, Oriental Optical in Pasadena, Calif.) now retired, RIP(?), back in Japan? , several times. He was an expert with semi-freehand binocular holding use of the JTII comparator for rapidly approximating 3-axis, including the hinge, alignment ( not just 2-axis optical alignment at only one IPD,usually 65mm.) , on cheapo/semi-cheapo ( I do not mean the Rangemasters) central focus binoculars . Because of lost motion, eyebrow pressure, etc, an approximation was the only realistic and maintainable(?) goal.

I purchased one of my JTII from him. Has anybody looked for, and found, a current JTII source? The last time I looked, it was a custom item, $$$, not stocked . There is doubt that the JTII testing and standards group ( gold elliptical tags on hinges of many Japanese binoculars until about 1980 (date=?) ) exists now.


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5090787 - 02/25/12 05:57 PM

Gordon, I want one of the other examples as a collector.
If your interested PM me.
Which is the best in your opinion?


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rick rian
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5091205 - 02/25/12 10:56 PM

Quote:


Oh, do you want to sell your Rangemasters?




A friendly reminder from your friendly Mod - please use S&S or PMs to inquire about buying and selling equipment. It's verboten in the general forums. Thanks


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: rick rian]
      #5091514 - 02/26/12 04:59 AM

Whoops! Sorry Rick.

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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5092192 - 02/26/12 02:09 PM

Not a question about buying or selling ( through a CN post) so I hope I'm safe with moderators. What is the average price for a vintage Sard 7x50. Made by Square D, looks identical to the Simon's (love your photos Simon) except the finish on the binocular is gray where Simon's is black.

Thanks Steve


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5092203 - 02/26/12 02:17 PM

Steve, I love both my Sard 7x50's the later one was sent to me by mistake when they should have posted a B&L Mk28!.
I would say around $100-$150 max if you have the eyewings and filters.
One really annoying problem with this binocular is with all the gunf on the eye end, the field stops are not visible even without glasses. Remove all this and the view is wonderful, the coated models have a neutral colour balance however the uncoated version is a tough yellow, but ever so slightly.

Edited by Simon S (02/26/12 02:21 PM)


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5092606 - 02/26/12 05:16 PM

I do not have an FPO for comparison. I know accumulators who have all (?) versions, but not close to here. I have not made a 3-way , n-way comparison.

The sloped shoulder "Tamron II" (?) (my terminology) has the widest field of the Rangemasters, I read somewhere. It is wider than my already wide Tamron I version. The central focus mechanism is unusually strong and well-fitted. I do not mean to imply any inadequacy in the other versions. They are heavier, but not objectionably, than my flat cover Tamron or, probably, the FPO


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5092641 - 02/26/12 05:37 PM

Was one of the components smaller than the other, in your recent FPO Bushnell Rangemaster eyelens recementing job?

A good lens cementing instrument is indicated there, instead of a rubber band. I have two of the semi-antique Navy ones . Others were made and sold by Pearl in Japan.

If that eyepiece is the non-rotating one,one could use a rubber band. But that is Mickey Mouse practice, no?

That would never do for rotating lens elements in the critical parts of an alignment telescope for optical tooling in aircraft, nuclear, shipyard, etc.


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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5093028 - 02/26/12 10:08 PM

Quote:

Steve, I love both my Sard 7x50's the later one was sent to me by mistake when they should have posted a B&L Mk28!.
I would say around $100-$150 max if you have the eyewings and filters.
One really annoying problem with this binocular is with all the gunf on the eye end, the field stops are not visible even without glasses. Remove all this and the view is wonderful, the coated models have a neutral colour balance however the uncoated version is a tough yellow, but ever so slightly.


Thanks for the reply Simon. I found one at an online estate auction that I think I"ll bid on.

Steve


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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5093324 - 02/27/12 02:51 AM

Gordon, the lens was on the rangemaster but they have been cleaned with steel wool. I see what your saying re alignment but despite you pros out there not having any faith in my repairs, rotating the eyepiece has no effect in collimation.
I have used,or tried to use V blocks maybe I should try again.
Oh and the band idea came from Bill C if my memory serves.

Edited by Simon S (02/28/12 04:51 PM)


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Preston Smith
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Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5098473 - 02/29/12 10:03 PM Attachment (50 downloads)

I need another pair of vintage Japanese binoculars like I need another hole in my head....

But I had been watching for a pair of Tamaya binoculars for some time and just snagged these on Ebay.

I know of Tamaya making sextants and nautical pieces and I remember reading here or somewhere else that Tamaya didn't make too many binoculars but they might be a good deal at a lower price so I got them.

Here's some of the pics from Ebay (I just won this so I do not yet have it in my possession):


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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Preston Smith]
      #5098475 - 02/29/12 10:04 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

Other side:

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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Preston Smith]
      #5098480 - 02/29/12 10:06 PM Attachment (35 downloads)

Front:

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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Preston Smith]
      #5098506 - 02/29/12 10:19 PM Attachment (28 downloads)

Back:

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Preston Smith
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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Preston Smith]
      #5098509 - 02/29/12 10:20 PM Attachment (27 downloads)

Eyepiece:

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binman
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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Preston Smith]
      #5098972 - 03/01/12 09:12 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

my latest binoculars received this morning, a pair of if 8x30 ussr made komz. very pleased with this set as alignment is very good and they are very clean inside! overall cosmetically they're also very tidy! i got them quite cheep with a view to selling but now i have them i will probably be keeping them! they are the sharpest best collimated russian 8x30's iv had so far. only fault which was easily fixed was the eyepiece was loose, i just undid the screw in the bakalite eyepeice, tightened the eyecup and did it up the screw again... sorted

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binman
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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: binman]
      #5098975 - 03/01/12 09:13 AM Attachment (49 downloads)

another pic next to my all time favourite bench mark bins, the deltrintems.

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Simon S
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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: binman]
      #5101195 - 03/02/12 02:37 PM

Preston, looks like a "Made in Occupied Japan" era binocular, you did not mention what the view is like?
Binman, most if not all the Russian binoculars in the 8x30 and 12x40 range seem to have a knack of staying clean inside.
I too have a few of these IF Russian 8x30's, the oily smell is great, but optically not a match for the Jenoptem or the super little 6x24.


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binman
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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5101236 - 03/02/12 03:02 PM

no not quite as sharp as the jena's but nice all the same, they do have a great smell. i've had 7 or 8 of the centre focus russian 8x30's 3 sets of the 6x24's, 2 sets of 12x40's and a 12x45 also the tento 7x35 but this is the first 8x30 IF model i've owned.
i dont tend to keep many binoculars in fact the only other one i still at the moment have is the deltrintem in the pic above and the komz 8x30 monocular these two are keepers.
the IF 8x30's could well be keepers, i paid £30 for them and was hoping to get at least twice that if i sold them..... the question is do i need two 8x30 binoculars?.... i love the feel and smell of them and enjoy using them....? maybe i could find room for them until a better pair turn up.


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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5101284 - 03/02/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

Preston, looks like a "Made in Occupied Japan" era binocular, you did not mention what the view is like?





Hi Simon!

I do not yet have the binoculars in my possession. I should get them next week and will give a report in this thread.

I am very curious on how well they will actually live up to being "anastigmatic." I'm not holding my breath...


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Re: Tamaya Super Deluxe Anastigmat 8x30 new [Re: binman]
      #5102874 - 03/03/12 02:14 PM Attachment (56 downloads)

The B&L arrived a last after a painful mess up by seller.
The binocular is infact better condition than I was hoping for which eased the stress of the whole saga.
This binocular, despite being made in 1943, has coated prisms and lenses bar one eye lens.
This uncoated lens was partly separated so I rejoined the two elements and used the eyepiece to centre the elements.
I then have them a dose of UV to fix the glue.
Some may notice that the eye cups look wrong. Thats because they are from a pair of REL 7x50's, I am waiting on two new coated eye lenses, and eye cups from the States, but postal services are slower than a slow thing at the moment!
All the optical surfaces are in great condition, no cleaning marks on the objectives, but a very slight collimation error resulting in the right view being just a tiny bit higher than the left.

Image is good, although not as good as some of the other model B&L 7x50's.
I don't think this binocular has ever been apart since maybe when the coated optics were added, but there is only a slight covering of haze on the prisms, with a tiny fungus spot the size of a pinhead on one objective.
Focus controls are smooth and just the right stiction, making the binocular a pleasure to use.

Edited by Simon S (03/04/12 06:13 AM)


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Simon S
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Sard 7x50 eye cups & ND filter new [Re: Simon S]
      #5104016 - 03/04/12 06:10 AM

The mistaken order I was sent from the States last week was a nice Sard 7x50 complete with filters and rubber eye cups.
But with these filters on a geed 10% of the view is lost and the field stops are far from visible.
Was this a known design flaw with the Sard?


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Pinewood
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B & L USN Mark 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5104166 - 03/04/12 08:48 AM

Quote:

.

I don't think this binocular has ever been apart since maybe when the coated optics were added,




Hello Simon,

The Mark 28 binocular was assembled with coated optics. I purchased one, dated 1943, unused, in the original box, with coated optics.

Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood


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Simon S
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Re: B & L USN Mark 28 new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5104231 - 03/04/12 09:23 AM

Pinewood, thank you for that. That is early for coatings is it not?
Did you like the binocular?


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FrankL
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Re: B & L USN Mark 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5104317 - 03/04/12 10:22 AM

I'm not sure the date "1943" on the binocular means it was made during that year. It could mean that, for sure, but it could also reference the year of the contract such as in 1943 so many binoculars were contracted to be delivered but all binoculars may not have been made and the order not completed until 1944 or even 1945.

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Re: B & L USN Mark 28 new [Re: FrankL]
      #5104360 - 03/04/12 10:42 AM

Frank, it is indeed possible. I wonder if BillC would have any input on this?

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Simon S
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Re: B & L USN Mark 28 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5119820 - 03/13/12 09:40 AM Attachment (62 downloads)

These gems arrived from Finnland yesterday a mint pair of Finnish army isssue Busch Solluxon's.
They look like they have never seen the light of day, glass is unmarked, paintwork is close to mint.
View is pin sharp and very well corrected across the field of view.
They weigh ~400 grams and have a lovely oily smell to them. A reticule is visible in the right eyepiece.


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Pinewood
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B & L USN Mark 28 Date new [Re: FrankL]
      #5121818 - 03/14/12 12:19 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure the date "1943" on the binocular means it was made during that year. It could mean that, for sure, but it could also reference the year of the contract such as in 1943 so many binoculars were contracted to be delivered but all binoculars may not have been made and the order not completed until 1944 or even 1945.




Hello Frank,

You may be right, but my Mark 28 had a little paper tag with a date of May, 1943, as well as the engraved date. If every B&L Mark 28 had a "1943" engraving, that would prove your point.

Happy collecting,
Arthur


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Foss
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Richard McC]
      #5125520 - 03/16/12 01:36 PM Attachment (60 downloads)

Compac Binoculars?
Just picked up a set of 7x35 Compac Ultra Wide Angle glasses and wonder if anyone has info on them. Google has not been my "friend" so far. They're metal body, very robust, and MIJ. Didn't see trademark logo in Peter Abraham's history section. I apologize for not cleaning these up before posting images, they're filthy.


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Foss
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5125524 - 03/16/12 01:38 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

Compac image 2

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Foss
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5125525 - 03/16/12 01:38 PM Attachment (50 downloads)

compac image 1

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Simon S
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5128993 - 03/18/12 05:09 PM

Foss, a strange one that. Are there any id marks stamped on the hinge between the objectives?

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Foss
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5130192 - 03/19/12 11:50 AM

Hey Simon,
No ID marks or J- codes unfortunately. I started to clean them up externally so had a good chance to look. These appear to have a bit of lens separation on the objectives...looks a bit like a cat took a swipe of its claws on the backsides of the objectives...so, when I can find the time, I'll remove the lenses and see. If the problem is separation, with Seyfried's book in hand and some info from CN binocular threads, I'll give re-cementing a try.


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FrankL
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5130205 - 03/19/12 11:57 AM

I've seen that T in a triangle marking before on another brand binocular, Nippon Kogaku I think. I could be mistaken but I seem to remember reading that it indicated the binocular was for private sale to U.S. military personnel at their military bases in Japan.

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: FrankL]
      #5144076 - 03/27/12 02:43 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

Early prismatic Ross, compact heavy for it's size and a dim low contrast view. Image is narrow but has good sharpness across the field of view.
There is also a reference to UK patent 11.74.1900, this referring to an improved central focusing mechanism and screw design.


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SMark
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5146131 - 03/28/12 08:59 PM

Every time I either buy or sell a binocular on eBay there is always risk involved. I tend to consider in my bidding as if I was also going to have to send it off to Cory for some work after I get it. But when I actually do get a really good deal it's fun to mention it...

As you can see from my signature I love my wide angle binoculars. And it seems that whenever one of these "Monster Wides" shows up there is a certain group of buyers (myself included) that will always be there to bid on it. But I got lucky on this one as I was the only bidder and won it with my first $19.99 bid. And then to top it off, it came to me in perfect, almost new condition. All it needed was a bit of exterior cleaning. And then to top that off, the optics are excellent for a super wide angle 7x35. The images are sharp, bright and have excellent contrast. Right now, only my Belfont surpasses it, and that's because it was magically restored by Cory. Anyway, I'm a happy camper...




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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: SMark]
      #5146372 - 03/29/12 12:14 AM

What are the J-codes , usually on the front side of the two forward hinge lugs?

Do you see the often present blue shading between an inner white square and the circular boundary of the exit pupil?

Are the arms which support the eyepieces a good fit to the central focusing shaft? If not, eyebrow pressure on one side can change the alignment.

I recently described a Teflon washer as a fix for a loose fit in a specimen of the early, flat prism housing cover Tamron versions of the Bushnell Rangemaster. Some of the top-of- the line Tasco are very good fits there, though they usually have the blue square peripheral shading in the exit pupils from low index prisms combined with short f/ratio objective lenses.

I often grab one of the several easy to find wide angle 7 x 35 from the 1960s thru 1980's (?) if I see an interesting bird in the course of other daily activity. The wide field helps to re-acquire the bird quickly, before it disappears. They serve for stargazing in less than dark skies. It is unfortunate that nearly all were 7 x 35, instead of 8 x 40 or similar.


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SMark
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5146428 - 03/29/12 01:23 AM

J-codes are JB56 and JE63. Not seeing the blue shading. The support arms are adequate enough, but I have other 7x35 bins with better support. The central focus is rock solid though, with no focus changes due to pressure on the eyepieces. Nice round exit pupils. I just had it outside and it is a very good performer under the stars.

I've had an 11° 7x50 but I don't know that I've seen an 8x40 that was more than 10°. It seems 12° to 13° was always reserved for the 7x35 though.


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: SMark]
      #5147121 - 03/29/12 12:57 PM

I was thinking of comparable apparent field, with less real field, of course, but in 8 x 40 or similar. The Swift Audubon 8.5 x 44, for example. But those are not so often found as are the various wide angle 7x35 "football spectator" from that period.

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tim53
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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5152495 - 04/01/12 11:08 PM Attachment (58 downloads)

Hi folks:

Been a while since my last Bino acquisition. I look every time I go to our local swap meets. Today, there seemed to be a LOT of binoculars at the PCC swap meet in Pasadena, though the first bunch I saw were nothing special, and priced too high. Then, I came across a guy with two pairs of 7x50 military binos. One was Navy, the other marines. Both were in very good condition with cases and straps intact. The seller wanted something like $329 for the marine binos, and over $450, I think for the navys. Seems like a lot for those, but I really am pretty clueless when it comes to binocular values. I try to stay below about 20 or 30 bucks , though I gladly paid about $80 for a pair of Nippon Kogaku "occupied" binos I found on ebay and posted in the previous vintage thread.

Just down the row and on the other side from the military bino guy, I cam across a guy with several pairs of binos, all different, and in varying stages of completion and condition. Oh, and he must be a chain smoker, because everything smells strongly of old ash trays! I only bought 3 pairs. One I passed up was a pair of Navy 8x30s (I think) that were really cool looking, but someone had tightened one of the eyepiece covers and shattered the lens - or so it appeared (but now I'm wondering if maybe the cement had separated? would it look like that?).

Here's the first of the 3 that I did buy. I paid $40 for all three (please forgive the iphone pics. My DSLR is downstairs, around the house, and in my shop somewhere!):

Hensoldt/Wetslar Jagd-Dyalit 6x42 and case:


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152503 - 04/01/12 11:14 PM Attachment (56 downloads)

^These look pretty terrible, though the grip material is in pretty good condition, most of the paint missing is due to oxidation of aluminum (?) parts underneath. The view through these surprised me - decent field of view and pretty sharp almost all the way to the edge. The seller said he thought they were WWII German military. They seem older than that to me, but maybe only because they're so filthy. One of the lens retaining rings is missing on the left objective. The lens appears held in by a pice of cardboard that looks like it's wedged in there pretty good - as if it were built that way? The other retainer seems to be thin metal and pressed in, so maybe there's a piece of cardboard under it as well? Focus was smooth and not a struggle. Here's the eye end, with text:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152509 - 04/01/12 11:16 PM Attachment (43 downloads)

The objective end. The seller assured me that it wasn't HIM who wrote the $10 price on the objective lens! I've not removed it, because I want to make sure I use the right solvent. I don't want to damage the coatings, if there are any, with the wrong solvent. Any recommendations?

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152522 - 04/01/12 11:25 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

The second pair of binoculars I chose to buy was this nice pair of 7x50 Ofuna "occupied" binoculars. The view through these was pretty nice, though I could see that there was something wrong in the left eye that I couldn't make out. I just looked down through the objective at my nightstand lamp and there's a pronouced clamshell chip in one of the prisms, apparently, because it's not in the objective and it doesn't rotate with the eyepiece. DARN! The binocular is otherwise in decent condition. Can a replacement prism be located??

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152530 - 04/01/12 11:33 PM Attachment (69 downloads)

This third pair is my favorite of the 3, and is in the best condition. Hartmann-Optik/Wetzlar 117 Lichtmetall Porlerim 8x30 wide:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152538 - 04/01/12 11:36 PM Attachment (49 downloads)

Again, sorry everything is so dirty still. Here's the front view of these. I found them to be nice and wide field, and sharp almost all the way out to the edge. Very light as well:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5152548 - 04/01/12 11:42 PM

Try acetone. It won't hurt coatings but I'm sure that these binoculars are not coated anyway. Don't get the acetone on any paint or plastic pieces. Also just apply it to the markings and don't let any run into the edge of the lens where it fits into the housing.

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: FrankL]
      #5153286 - 04/02/12 02:00 PM

Agree, remove the writing with anything, these bins arn't coated.
The 7x50 once cleaned should be a good binocular I have a similar model to this somewhere.
The 8x30 Hartmann looks similar to mine, but yours has larger eye lenses similar to the Noctovist 8x30.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binoculars/3366053226/in/set-72157623266727225/
Great finds, will you service them yourself?


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5153733 - 04/02/12 07:13 PM

Hi Simon:

Well, I probably will, but I have yet to take any of my binoculars apart! One pair I wouldn't mind experimenting with is a ~1979 pair of 12x80 Meades. They've got a noticeably curved field when used in the daytime, but were decent for dark sky observing. They have a nasty habit of easily getting out of alignment. A late friend of mine worked on them a couple of times, and I remember him saying that the way the prisms were mounted made it difficult to keep them aligned. I haven't used them in several years, since they were misaligned last time I tried.

Or, I might take a pair of the 7x35 Tasco zips apart, since I have two pair (one mint, one missing a couple parts), and using the optics to make a pair of finderscopes.

I don't want to take apart any of the "good" ones until I've practiced on the cheap ones first.

-Tim.


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5153949 - 04/02/12 10:41 PM Attachment (64 downloads)

Hi - I had one of the take-a-breath moments last week when I found this Zeiss 8x56 B in a secondhand shop for $20. How could I say no?

They are in surprisingly good shape - the rubber is intact, some rubbing on the metal is various places, focusing is fine, the hinge is firm, no scratches and are very clean inside. The views are very sharp on axis but ever so slightly washed out - no doubt a function of the coatings and lack of phase coating. That said, they are just so nice to use - and they are probably the only Zeiss I will ever be able to afford!

From what I can work out on the web, this one would be from around 1969-70? This is based on the fact that it has the old Zeiss logo and from what is said on this site: Binos Explained

Appreciate any thoughts on the dating.

From a happy camper.

Andrew

Edited by mercedes_sl1970 (04/02/12 10:57 PM)


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5153968 - 04/02/12 10:54 PM Attachment (66 downloads)

Just a couple more photos...

Andrew


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5153970 - 04/02/12 10:56 PM Attachment (48 downloads)

Oh yes - they are "Made in Germany".

Andrew


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5154010 - 04/02/12 11:40 PM

I thought I made some real steals over the years from Pawn & junk shops, but I think this beats them all, well done!

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: brentwood]
      #5154760 - 04/03/12 01:46 PM

Andrew, please don't come on here telling me things like this! I get very very jealous!
Fantastic find, congratulations!


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5155754 - 04/04/12 07:44 AM

Simon and Brentwood - I've been a regular reader and admirer of all the binoculars on this thread. It's just been nice to be able to contribute once or twice in a few years...

Andrew


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: mercedes_sl1970]
      #5158030 - 04/05/12 05:44 PM

That Zeiss grab is one of the best once-in-a-life deals. But I may have one even better: A friend in a desert "antique" store was asked what he was looking for, he said optics and the owner pulled out a couple of dusty lenses, one a 4.5" achromat in a brass cell, and an 8" achromat of unknown make. They both turned out to be telescope objectives. The 8" in particular had a fine f13.5 planetary wavefront, he measured it on his interferometer, and it now stands on a byers mount and 300lb roll out pier. The price? 75 bucks. My friend said how about 50 and that's what he got them for!

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: dougspeterson]
      #5161188 - 04/07/12 06:23 PM Attachment (56 downloads)

My latest 60's binocular is this 7x50 made by Canon.
It is in near perfect condition, clean internally and has a good bright view. The usual stiff focus and dioptre controls were eased with the application of some light oil.
The setting of the IPD is very critical on this binocular, a slight misalignment results in fairly vivid CA.
There is no vignetting to the exit pupil suggesting Canon used crown glass in the prisms the view is well corrected and is sharp to around 75% FOV.
I think it's optical performance is inferior to a 7x50 East Zeiss of the same era, but not by much.


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Simon S]
      #5161193 - 04/07/12 06:27 PM

Simon,

Very, very nice indeed.

It looks familiar. I must have seen one on ebay.

Stan


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5185022 - 04/22/12 04:10 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

I just got a pair of "nothing special" Japanese 7x50s from ebay this week.

They're Baylor 7x50s, and the photos looked like they were in good condition, though the ad stated that they smelled like cigarette smoke. They do!

But they are in good condition. I haven't tried them at night yet, but did look outside at some trees in the distance. I find them to have a sharp but typically somewhat narrow field - typical of the 60s 7x50s I've had before. But the image is sharp right up to the edge of the field.

They're rather attractively colored dark grey against the black textured covering.

The original box is there, though the seams are split on two corners. Even the original cleaning cloth with the Baylor logo is present, along with the plastic bag it came in. The leather strap is present, and appears never to have been put on the binoculars. There are loops on the case for a strap, but it is missing. The case is in very good condition, except for some delaminating of the textured cover from the cardboard across the top. The elastic strap and hasp is in ver good condition, and the "Passed" sticker is still present on the bottom of the case.

Pics:


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5185024 - 04/22/12 04:11 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

Box contents:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5185029 - 04/22/12 04:12 PM Attachment (54 downloads)

Binoculars, objective end:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5185033 - 04/22/12 04:14 PM Attachment (49 downloads)

Eyepiece end:

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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: tim53]
      #5187668 - 04/24/12 09:02 AM

Hey Andrew. That's one find you'll be sharing with your grandkids someday. WTG!
Hey Simon: Nice score, those look real clean
Hey Tim: I repaired a split box that came with a 60s pair of Rosco (Tokyo Optics) 8x25s and it worked out great.
http://www.thegamesjournal.com/articles/RepairingBoxes.shtml


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Re: Vintage and Classic Binoculars discussion (Part 2) new [Re: Foss]
      #5188150 - 04/24/12 02:00 PM

Hi Foss:

That's a very clever solution to the split box problem! I wish I had known about it when I repaired the box for my Tasco 14F about a month back! I used packing tape, which will surely hold, but it's not exactly attractive!

-Tim.


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A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5189455 - 04/25/12 09:23 AM Attachment (49 downloads)

My latest addition is this Zeiss 8x40 Delactis, but I have a few concerns.
Firstly this binocular has coated lenses and prisms, unusual for a binocular supposedly dated late 1921.
then there's the silkscreen on the prism plates, not the usual engraving. Open the the binocular to find prisms with the normal slot across the hypotonuse and the two key indents to locate the prism into the prism shelf after being punched. However the prism shelves have not been punched and as a result the prism had some movement in the shelf.
Then there's the prism clamp, with no screw at one end, but just a weak clip into two slots in the binocular body.
Hold the binocular in your hand it looks and feels right, but i'm not sure?
Does anyone have any clues?


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189458 - 04/25/12 09:24 AM Attachment (44 downloads)

The coated lenses in the eyepieces

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189462 - 04/25/12 09:26 AM Attachment (45 downloads)

Prism area with little blackening.

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189497 - 04/25/12 09:54 AM Attachment (45 downloads)

And compared to my later model that looks a lot older?
Notice also the eyelens size?


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189719 - 04/25/12 11:55 AM

Those eyepieces look a little wide for something made in the 20s?

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189736 - 04/25/12 12:05 PM

This is a strange one. No doubt they're fakes or an original Delactis completely re-built with new optics. The question is why? To make this binocular (rebuild or create an entirely new one) would have been a costly and/or time-consuming undertaking costing more than an original Delactis (not a very rare binocular)would be worth. My guess is that this was not done for re-sale or to fool any body but by an optical hobbyist trying to re-create a Delcatis with coated optics which if successful would have been a pretty good binocular. How is the view through it, by the way?

My Delactis(sn #1322374 = 1926) has a 22 mm eyelens seeming to look more like the one on your fake than your original.

Edited by FrankL (04/25/12 12:16 PM)


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: FrankL]
      #5189749 - 04/25/12 12:11 PM

Frank, the coatings are very soft and have mostly been removed through cleaning. Comparing the two models they look equal. exactly the same sweet spot same colour rendition. But the prism claps should have a screw one end from memory?

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5189760 - 04/25/12 12:24 PM

Quote:

Frank, the coatings are very soft and have mostly been removed through cleaning. Comparing the two models they look equal. exactly the same sweet spot same colour rendition. But the prism claps should have a screw one end from memory?


I was about to agree with you about the prism clamp screw but I've just looked into mine and although a little hard to see, it doesn't look like there's any screw. But if those are original Zeiss prisms in the original binocular they should be fitting as tightly as possible in their bases.

What are the diameters of the eyelenses on both of yours?

Edited by FrankL (04/25/12 12:26 PM)


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Simon S
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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: FrankL]
      #5189879 - 04/25/12 01:37 PM

The larger are 21mm the others 18ish

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5198374 - 04/30/12 02:20 PM

Well i'm stumped on this binocular.
I think is may well be a fake, but it's optical performance seems as good as the other binocular in the photo.


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tim53
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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5199195 - 04/30/12 10:32 PM Attachment (43 downloads)

I just got my second pair of binoculars from ebay today. Selsi 7x50 wide angles. They looked to be very clean, and the eyepieces huge, so I was curious to see how they performed (and the price wasn't bad).

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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5199199 - 04/30/12 10:32 PM Attachment (36 downloads)

From the top... ...I mean the objectives!:

Edited by tim53 (04/30/12 10:33 PM)


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5199209 - 04/30/12 10:34 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

Here's the top:

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tim53
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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5199231 - 04/30/12 10:44 PM

The view through the eyepieces is indeed wide. Definitely lose definition before getting to the edge, though. Other thing that i noticed is a strongly-curved field when focusing on the TV across the room. The screen appeared bowed outward in the center. (I have an old pair of Meade 12s80s with the opposite curvature).

-Tim.


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5203737 - 05/03/12 12:51 PM

Nice find Tim, another of those wonderful wide angle Japanese binoculars sadly no longer as popular today as they once were.

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Re: Selsi 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5204647 - 05/03/12 10:07 PM

Hello Tim,

Is there any vignetting? Those binoculars do not seem to have the oversized prisms needed for an extra wide field of view.


Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood


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Re: Selsi 7x50 new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5207379 - 05/05/12 02:38 PM Attachment (40 downloads)

Won this old Swift a few days ago, model 766 made in 1966 and with perfect optics and round exit pupils! Only problem with this example is a crack at the focus arm below the ipd plate. View is wide with some barrel distortion, very slightly cool colour shift and pin sharp with a large sweet spot.
This Panoramic MkII is the same binocular as the Holiday MkII, and is every bit as good as an Audubon of the same era.
If you have parts for this model (Je 45) please let me know.

Edited by Simon S (05/05/12 02:40 PM)


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SMark
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Re: Selsi 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5207738 - 05/05/12 07:15 PM

That looks like a real nice 11 degree binocular.

Good score.


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tim53
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Re: Selsi 7x50 new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5207960 - 05/05/12 10:15 PM Attachment (31 downloads)

Quote:

Hello Tim,

Is there any vignetting? Those binoculars do not seem to have the oversized prisms needed for an extra wide field of view.


Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood




Yes there is. But I can only really notice it on a bright blue sky. It shows up as rectangular shadows at the edge of the field that come and go, depending on how close I place my eyes to the eyepieces. I just compared the views with those through the Baylors I bought earlier. They sure seem HUGE compared to the Baylor 7x50s, but I suppose it's possible that the sharpest portion of the field is about the size of the field in the Baylors (which are sharp to the very edges).

Here's a shot of the eyepiece ends of the two pair, compared.

-tim.


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5207961 - 05/05/12 10:20 PM

Quote:

Nice find Tim, another of those wonderful wide angle Japanese binoculars sadly no longer as popular today as they once were.




I think I've found my new favorite pair of 7x50s! I was impressed that the curved field isn't particularly noticeable viewing landscapes outdoors. I imagine the night sky will be similar.

-Tim.


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Re: A fake Zeiss Delactis 8x40, or is it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5207972 - 05/05/12 10:24 PM

I think the vignetting in the Selsis isn't more noticeable than it is because the prisms are closer to the eyepieces than they are in the Baylors. They don't seem to be any bigger, when viewed through the objectives, though I suppose that might be because they're farther from the objectives.

-Tim.


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M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: tim53]
      #5208366 - 05/06/12 07:03 AM Attachment (38 downloads)

After the war (WW2) maybe for Italy-USA agreements, for the Marshall Plan, were delivered many binoculars USA, Canada and GB Italian Army, and today I have brought two, A Universal Camera Corporation and REL Canada. The other M3 U.S. Army while ago I bought on Ebay.
The binoculars at the bottom should be a Westinghouse or a Bausch & Lomb.
Bye

Edited by Bensi (05/06/12 07:07 AM)


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FrankL
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Re: M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: Bensi]
      #5208510 - 05/06/12 09:55 AM

Wonderful! First REL I've seen with Italian markings.

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Bensi
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Re: M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: FrankL]
      #5208546 - 05/06/12 10:15 AM Attachment (33 downloads)

I'll try 'to buy a 6x30 Wollensack, with his trademark double, U.S. and Italian.

Great Binos
!!


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alsendk
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Re: M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: Bensi]
      #5208587 - 05/06/12 10:56 AM

good to see you back Bensi, and then with some very interesting binoculars.

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Bensi
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Re: M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: alsendk]
      #5208590 - 05/06/12 11:00 AM


Thanks !!
Marco

Edited by Bensi (05/06/12 11:00 AM)


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FrankL
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Re: M3 USA and Esercito Italiano new [Re: Bensi]
      #5208886 - 05/06/12 02:11 PM

Quote:

I'll try 'to buy a 6x30 Wollensack, with his trademark double, U.S. and Italian.

Great Binos
!!



The U.S. Army Wollensak M5 6X30 with coated optics is very nice binocular. Good optics and comfortable to hold. I really like it. The graticule, though, is a bit of a pain having very thick lines (looks like it was drawn with a crayon!) and obtrusive.


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tim53
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B&L 10x45 US Navy "Prism Marine" new [Re: FrankL]
      #5209036 - 05/06/12 03:56 PM Attachment (30 downloads)

I came across 4 pairs of binoculars today at the local swap meet. Three of them came from the same seller I bought 3 pair from last month! The other pair, Baush and Lomb 10x45 "Prism Marine" Navy binoculars, is the nicest looking of the bunch, but it's got a couple of problems. The eyepiece eyecups are replacements, and look like they're actually rubber grommets that have been glued onto the eyepiece rims. They don't look too bad, so I think I'll leave them alone for now. The worst problem though, is that there's a chipped prism. I really need to check these carefully, but that part of the swap meet is held in a parking garage, and the light isn't good, and so it's hard to see things like this.

Anyway, I still really like these. The view through the "good eye" is quite good and reasonably wide. Anybody know where I can get a replacement prism?

Here's the eye end:


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tim53
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Re: B&L 10x45 US Navy "Prism Marine" new [Re: tim53]
      #5209037 - 05/06/12 03:57 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Top view:

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tim53
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Re: B&L 10x45 US Navy "Prism Marine" new [Re: tim53]
      #5209041 - 05/06/12 03:58 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

bottom view:

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tim53
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Re: B&L 10x45 US Navy "Prism Marine" new [Re: tim53]
      #5209045 - 05/06/12 04:01 PM Attachment (18 downloads)

Objective view. That flare in the right objective is the flash reflecting off the clamshell chip in the prism. First I noticed it! :

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tim53
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B&L 7x35 Zephyr new [Re: tim53]
      #5209056 - 05/06/12 04:12 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

next up. These deliver a nice view and appear fairly sharp to the edge. Surprisingly light, too.

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tim53
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Re: B&L 7x35 Zephyr new [Re: tim53]
      #5209070 - 05/06/12 04:22 PM

I took a pic of the eyepiece end, but the engraving isn't painted, so it's too hard to see. Came with a case, missing the strap and the hasp rivet is missing. Label in the case (oops! removed because of address label)

Edited by tim53 (05/07/12 10:35 AM)


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tim53
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Apex 12x50 Huntsman new [Re: tim53]
      #5209076 - 05/06/12 04:28 PM Attachment (29 downloads)

Next up, a pair of Apex Precision Instruments 12x50s

On the left, it says "Featherweight" TM Reg, 1950

On the right, 12x50 Huntsman No 5156 Coated.

The left eyecup is broken.


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tim53
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Re: Apex 12x50 Huntsman new [Re: tim53]
      #5209079 - 05/06/12 04:30 PM Attachment (20 downloads)

Top view. These are nice to look through, with smooth focus motions and reasonably light weight:

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tim53
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Re: Apex 12x50 Huntsman new [Re: tim53]
      #5209082 - 05/06/12 04:32 PM

Also came with a case, but it's missing the lid and straps.

-Tim.


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FrankL
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Re: B&L 10x45 US Navy "Prism Marine" new [Re: tim53]
      #5209087 - 05/06/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

The worst problem though, is that there's a chipped prism. ... Anybody know where I can get a replacement prism?



Here is a similar one in my collection with some information about the model: http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/5249827914/in/set-72157623234405689
As noted in the above link this binocular is probably a 6X30 EE model converted to 10X so a 6X30 EE prism should fit. I'm fairly sure Surplus Shed has some of these in new condition (http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/category/binocularparts_5.html). To get the right one remove your chipped prism, measure it and then hopefully select one on the Surplus Shed site with the same measurements.


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tim53
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Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: tim53]
      #5209100 - 05/06/12 04:44 PM Attachment (49 downloads)

I saw these last month, but didn't buy them then, because of that left eyepiece. It looks cracked, but I wonder if it's failing cement, instead?

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tim53
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: tim53]
      #5209107 - 05/06/12 04:47 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

Right engraving. The view through the good eye on these is very nice, sharp to the edge Individual focus is smooth. Lots of loose chunks of black dirt/lint inside.

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tim53
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: tim53]
      #5209115 - 05/06/12 04:56 PM

Frank: Thanks for the links! I had no idea you could get parts for some of these!

I paid $25 for the Prism Marines and $40 for the other three together.

-Tim.


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Jae
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Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: tim53]
      #5214440 - 05/09/12 08:21 PM

Hello fans of vintage binocs ! Sooner or later, I was afraid I might get bitten.

My father in-law passed recently and he used a pair of Sard 7x50 Navy binoculars. Oddly enough, after looking through all my high end binoculars, my wife still prefers the "easy on the eyes" views through the Sard. Rather than having a sibliing debate over who gets the glasses, I won one on the bay recently and am waiting for it to arrive. I hope they are as good as my father in-law's pair.

I found it interesting that many of the vintage binoculars seem to have that easy viewing experience that seems elusive with the newer models.

Jae


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alsendk
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Reged: 04/23/11

Loc: Denmark
Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: Jae]
      #5214897 - 05/10/12 05:21 AM

Interesting question, I have come to the same conclusion,by comparing my old 7x40 Zeiss NVA Checkpoint Charlie binoculars versus one of my friends new bought porro Leica Bins Ultravid 7x42 HD
It is obvious that the Leica is very very sharp, but my old bins provide more easy wiewing,and I do not need to correct them, once set to infinity.....can anyone explain why ?


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BillC
on a new path
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5215054 - 05/10/12 08:49 AM

Accomodation.

BillC


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alsendk
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: BillC]
      #5215107 - 05/10/12 09:29 AM

Sorry BillC
accomodation means bolig = housing in my language, and gives no sense to me, are you always so short in words ? :O)
but thank you anyway for your explanation.
Allan


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rydberg
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5215259 - 05/10/12 11:09 AM

Hello alsendk:
Forgive the curmudgeon (he must not have had enough children to eat )

Accommodation is the ability of our eyes to adjust for different situations: looking at a keyboard require a different focal lenght in our eyes lenses than looking across the room. We do this instinctively. And we do this while looking through binoculars as well.

That is where the design of the binoculars come into play. Quite often the placement of the eyes that gives pleasant views and require the least accommodation (i.e. less strain) depends on the exit pupil (lens diameter in mm divided by magnification), eye relief (how far from the eyepiece lens you need to place the eyes to see well) and field depth (at a given focus position, the minimum and maximum distances that can be seen in sharp focus)
I don't know the models you mentioned, but quite likely your 7x40 Zeiss has more eye relief and field depth than the Leica, hence less strain to accommodate your eyes and more comfortable "feel".

Are you now sorry you asked?
Marco


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Jae
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: rydberg]
      #5215399 - 05/10/12 12:17 PM

Given the same eye relief and exit pupil, I can see how depth of field differences would be a factor but to me it still seems a bit less of a factor. I've had identical binoculars - model and brand that had real differences in the "easy on the eyes". I've been attributing it to minor alignment/collimation differences but it's odd to see vintage pairs be consistently easier on the eyes. Perhaps it's the new "default" alignment settings on newer binoculars (slightly cross eye)?

So for some people it may require less "accomodation" but others maybe more ?


I'm also thinking that the newer coatings that give you that super sharp contrast gives the eye/brain more "stuff" to process ? I'm grasping for answers but it's a real experience that I am hyper sensitive to as my wife is the ultimate tester in this area. She gets headaches with anything but "easy on the eyes" and refuses to look through my high end binoculars, even the Ultravids or Zeiss FL's.

She loved my 8x20 Swarovski I bought 20 yrs ago but when it got replaced with a newer pair as they had trouble repairing the hinge, she didn't like the newer one as much. It had better coatings and was sharper.....

I also sent back a 7x42 Zeiss FL and got back a second pair that was "easier on the eyes"..


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Simon S
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: Jae]
      #5215419 - 05/10/12 12:30 PM

I must say that a pair of my Sards with the eye cups removed is far far nicer to look through than the pair with eye cups.
It is very difficult to see the field stops with the eye cups installed.


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Simon S
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5215510 - 05/10/12 01:22 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

I wonder if someone can help me. I won a pair of mint Swift Audubon's the original 804 model complete with nice case.
But the RH bridge is snapped at the hinge, any idea where I can find one?

Edited by Simon S (05/10/12 01:27 PM)


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alsendk
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: Simon S]
      #5215743 - 05/10/12 03:10 PM

Hi Marco, how can I be sorry to ask, when you,- among others here return my question with a fine, and an easy to understand explanation,that make sense to me.
Thank you
Allan


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rydberg
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Navy Sard 7x50 new [Re: alsendk]
      #5216065 - 05/10/12 06:38 PM

Hi Allan:
It is just sometimes I have the pedantic habit of explaining of how to make a clock when someone asks simply "what time it is" .
It comes from being a teacher, I guess.
Glad of being helpful.
Marco


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Pinewood
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: tim53]
      #5216300 - 05/10/12 09:20 PM

Hello Tim,

That binocular is probably the same as a former neighbor used, when we were looking for a bright comet, twenty five years, ago, in Brooklyn. I recall that it was a Universal Camera 6x30 USN glass. I own a similar US Marine Corps binocular.
Incidentally, Universal Camera made some unique cameras, including the half frame Mercury, before WW II.

Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood


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BillC
on a new path
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5216415 - 05/10/12 11:47 PM

“Sorry BillC
accomodation means bolig = housing in my language, and gives no sense to me, are you always so short in words ? :O)
but thank you anyway for your explanation.
Allan”

Dear Allan:

I am sorry; I have been very busy. I am also sorry that you are probably not a native English speaker. If you were, I would have a wonderful time beating that college Pu . . . I mean, honored PhD—who never writes me anymore—Marco like the proverbial “red-headed stepchild.”

But, I won’t; I’ll just think it.

Anyway, the particular accommodation I was peaking of was one noticed by Jae.

With the greed for dollars going up, as the consumer knowledge of what makes a good instrument going down, many manufacturers are simply pumping stuff out the door without the concern for collimation that once ruled the industry. As one corporate head told his national sales team: “Binoculars are not to look through; they’re to sell!”

One of the reasons I tried so hard to get a thread going on creating a new, light-weight, inexpensive system of 3-axes collimation was so amateurs could address these issues. However, after 4 attempts to stay on track, I’ve given up.

Cheers,

BillC . . . humbug, bah!


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alsendk
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: BillC]
      #5216581 - 05/11/12 04:50 AM

All forgiven BillC.
What you write this time, gives me a reason to actually like my old timers binuculars even more...counting 2 NVA`s 7x40, one IOR Valdada 7x40, and a terrific BPO Baigish 7x30.
Thanks for your input dear curmudgeon=gnavpot
Allan


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rydberg
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: alsendk]
      #5216621 - 05/11/12 06:53 AM

Gnavpot?
I like that
Red headed? I wish...
I am only white now.
Marco


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BillC
on a new path
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: rydberg]
      #5217132 - 05/11/12 01:18 PM

"I am only white now.
Marco"

That's why I said "LIKE."

"Like" is a wonderful word; if you (like) took it (like) from today's (like) vernacular, (like) many of our citizens couldn't (like) communicate!

Bill


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Simon S
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: BillC]
      #5221577 - 05/14/12 10:06 AM Attachment (41 downloads)

A nice example of a Lietz Marseptit 7x50 arrived today. the binocular is is great condition, not a mark on the lenses and has dark blue coatings, also in unmarked condition.
Field of view is narrow, though central image is pin sharp and bright. The image does seem to soften somewhat towards the field-stops , something a narrow field binocular should not portray.
Matching the date of this binocular through its serial number is difficult, but this model was manufactured between 1932 and 1962 , when in 1954 it sold for $162 and in 1961 $235 !


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steve@37n83.9w
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: Simon S]
      #5221616 - 05/14/12 10:31 AM

Nice looking bino Simon. What material are the eye cups? Rubber? Bakelite?

Steve


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Simon S
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: steve@37n83.9w]
      #5221673 - 05/14/12 11:05 AM

They are a bakelite material that seem to have faded with age.

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alsendk
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: Simon S]
      #5221702 - 05/14/12 11:21 AM

A nice find Simon.
Are Leitz part of Leica in any way?


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BillC
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: alsendk]
      #5221762 - 05/14/12 11:52 AM

Two divisions of E. Leitz merged several years ago and the Leica name was chosen for both.

I'm not Simon . . . I just play him on TV.

BillC


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alsendk
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Re: Universal Camera Corp 6x30 Navy new [Re: BillC]
      #5221895 - 05/14/12 01:12 PM

I`m shure you would look good on tv BillC, and thank you for your answer.
Then Kern company Switzerland is implemented into Leica as well, to my knowledge...just bought two bin`s from there, one named Kern Arau, and the other Leica...both alike, with no visible changes to see,after the takeover, - but the 1064nm laser filters, and the reticle annoyes me a little, becouse of a brownish mis-colouring inside the tubes, for which i blame the filters to do, but it`s only my guess though. Otherwise they are both fine glasses, and very handy in size.

Edited by alsendk (05/14/12 01:16 PM)


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Pinewood
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Reged: 12/07/04

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Leitz and Leica new [Re: alsendk]
      #5222035 - 05/14/12 02:28 PM

Quote:


Are Leitz part of Leica in any way?



Hello Alsendk,

Ernst Leitz was an optical firm, owned by Leitz family. Formerly, they were the second largest manufacturer of microscopes in Germany. In 1914, one of their mechanics developed a camera using 35 mm film. By 1924, the camera was produced by Leitz, using the name Leica [LEitz CAmera].
There are three different firms formed from the Leitz corporation, all using the Leica name: sports optics, including cameras; microscopes and geo measuring devices. If I recall, before the firm was reorganized, the sports optics division started using the Leica brand name.

Happy collecting,
Arthur Pinewood


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alsendk
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Reged: 04/23/11

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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5222180 - 05/14/12 03:41 PM

Thank you Arthur,for enlightening me about the Leitz/Leica brand.
Especially the Leica cameras was my boyish hope to purchase some day, in order to shoot pictures like Bresson and Eisenstaedt and Capa....now in the digital age, it appears to be of less importance which camera you have, I believe?
still the Leica X1 looks so good and effective...very off
topic btw :O(


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Pinewood
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: alsendk]
      #5222565 - 05/14/12 07:25 PM

Quote:


Especially the Leica cameras was my boyish hope to purchase some day, in order to shoot pictures like Bresson and Eisenstaedt and Capa....now in the digital age, it appears to be of less importance which camera you have, I believe?
still the Leica X1 looks so good and effective...very off
topic btw :O(




Hello Alsendk,

It was my boyish ambition, as well. I purchased in a 1938 Leica, in 1963, which I still own. I also managed to meet Eisenstadt.
I suspect that the imaging device on digital cameras are incapable of realizing the resolution capable of the best lenses.
Incidentally, Leitz was making prismatic binoculars by 1914, but far fewer than Zeiss. The Leitz 7x50 Marsept and Marseptit binoculars are very highly regarded, although their coatings are rather out of date. I bought one, in 1979.

Happy collecting,
Arthur


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Pinewood]
      #5225388 - 05/16/12 03:42 PM Attachment (51 downloads)

Anyone think they know this binocular?

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KennyJ
The British Flash
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5226719 - 05/17/12 12:23 PM

It looks vaguely familiar to me, Simon.

Does it respond to being called "Norman" by any chance?


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5226860 - 05/17/12 01:46 PM

Ah but it's not what it appears.
What do you think it is Kenny?


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Simon S
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5228165 - 05/18/12 11:22 AM Attachment (38 downloads)

Look whats arrived today!

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Simon S
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5228167 - 05/18/12 11:23 AM Attachment (42 downloads)

And inside....

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Simon S
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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5228173 - 05/18/12 11:25 AM Attachment (44 downloads)

Peek a Boo!

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SMark
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Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5228178 - 05/18/12 11:28 AM

Oh stop teasing...

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Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5228182 - 05/18/12 11:28 AM Attachment (38 downloads)

And inside a mint pair of Nikon 7x35A's with original lens cloth, manual, inspection stamp, lens caps and silica gel pack.
All from a online pawn shop for £25.


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Simon S
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Reged: 01/07/07

Loc: Crawley West Sussex UK
Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5232442 - 05/21/12 12:44 PM Attachment (42 downloads)

Could someone confirm the ID of these binoculars please.
Although they are not marked, are they B&L zephyr's?
Only other options I can see are a Jesub or Jiedd?


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brentwood
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Reged: 11/04/05

Loc: BC Canada
Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: Simon S]
      #5232447 - 05/21/12 12:48 PM

US Mil. Spec, M13 used by the US Army & Marines. Similar to many others made by Westinghouse, GE and Anchor optical during WW2. Or it could be a civilian version.

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Simon S
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/07

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Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: brentwood]
      #5232658 - 05/21/12 03:09 PM

But its a central focus type ?

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FrankL
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Reged: 07/30/09

Loc: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Re: Leitz and Leica new [Re: brentwood]
      #5232664 - 05/21/12 03:14 PM

Quote:

US Mil. Spec, M13 used by the US Army & Marines. Similar to many others made by Westinghouse, GE and Anchor optical during WW2. Or it could be a civilian version.


My first thought too