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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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RodgerHouTex
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5438122 - 09/24/12 01:39 PM

Thanks for the link Rich. Yea, buying two telescopes at $829 is probably not in my future. I do like the concept of Mr. Bill's bino box though so I just need to decide what to put in it. It might just be the Istar 127mm lenses that he used.

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RodgerHouTex
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5438127 - 09/24/12 01:41 PM

I'm not really looking for high mags Mr. Bill. I do want a 4 to 5 mm. exit pupil though. So whatever I end up with I'll just have to pick the right eyepiece.

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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: RodgerHouTex]
      #5438158 - 09/24/12 02:00 PM

I use and highly recommend the 24mm and 19mm Panoptics.



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Collimator
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Reged: 09/05/12

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #5438205 - 09/24/12 02:26 PM

Sorry, but I am new to this.
Can someone direct me to reviews of the Vixen 125mm binocular telescope.
I think there may be 8 different eyepiece sets.

My RFT made in the 1970s contains a very good coated 5 1/8 inch f/5 Jaegers achromat, which I asked them to select specially. I think it was a cemented doublet in Jaegers own cell. The clear aperture was 123mm.
It performed beautifully for many years in a custom telescope I had made.
The magnifications were 16x with a Kodak WW2 EWA coated eyepiece. Almost 5 degree field. 3 inch eyepiece holder.
20x with 32mm 2 inch Erfle.
35x with 18mm 75 degree eyepiece uncoated.
75x with 8mm Edmunds RKE which is a wonderful combination.
145x with 4.3mm Swift Ortho unfortunately found to be radioactive later.
At 145x this magnification was fully useful and reached mag. 13.1 in town.
So I presume there must be other reasons why using two of these 145x eyepieces would not give good results in a binocular telescope.
And 210x with a 3mm Clave eyepiece. This was a little too much but still usable.

Edited by Collimator (09/24/12 02:29 PM)


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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Collimator]
      #5594778 - 12/29/12 05:43 PM Attachment (79 downloads)

Well, looks like the BinoBox will be featured in S&T this spring in Gary Seronik's Telescope Workshop column....

A picture from the "photoshoot."


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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05

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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #5594815 - 12/29/12 06:05 PM

Congratulations Mr. Bill; looking forward to the article.

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GlennLeDrew
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5594889 - 12/29/12 06:45 PM

Good on ya, mate! I look forward to reading this one.

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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5602852 - 01/03/13 12:01 PM

According to Gary, looks like April S&T for article... that means it will appear at the end of Feb, beginning of March.



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faackanders2
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Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #5606911 - 01/05/13 04:20 PM

Congrats! How is the view?

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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5606925 - 01/05/13 04:30 PM

Right now, overcast, but on a good night my skies are green/blue. SQMs of 21.5 on best nights.



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faackanders2
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Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Zoomit]
      #5607141 - 01/05/13 06:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Brandon,
Binocular viewing incurrs a *cost*? Quite the contrary; it affords a *gain*.

//cut//

Squinting with one eye is an unnecessary handicap to be avoided. That's how binoculars should be promoted!




Oh come on, there's huge premium for a binocular view, as we're all aware. To most people, that incremental pleasure from a binocular view cannot justify the significant additional expense and complexity. That's why most telescopes, even those intended to be only visual instruments, remain monocular.

Even in refractor vs newt vs SCT debates, there are quantitative comparison data and arguments. I've tried to logically justify a binocular view but the argument always seems to boil down to: two eyes are better than one.

Which is where I started when I posed my original question (and with apologies to Mr. Bill, the OP, for taking the thread down this path). I was hoping Glenn had a quantitative metric that captured the "sheer pleasure" of a binocular view, beyond the straightforward summation equations.




Joy is subjective (like why some like 100AFOV or not). Thos with large telesopes can get a taste with binoviewers, but this normally comes at the expense of higher power and less light to each eye. Small binoculars provide much wider TFOVs than telescopes. Large binos still provide wider FOV than binoviewers. They are complimentary, and don't need to be exclusive.


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EricP
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Reged: 11/09/07

Loc: Sachse, Texas
Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5607405 - 01/05/13 10:22 PM

That's awesome news, Bill! Congrats on making your mark in S&T. Looking forward to the article.

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planetmalc
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Reged: 10/21/09

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: EricP]
      #5615531 - 01/10/13 01:22 PM

Mr Bill's design raises an intriguing possibility. Instead of fixing the mount to the side of the box, attach it instead to the BOTTOM. This allows the instrument to swing through a 180-degree arc from horizon to horizon via the zenith. If the OG's are spaced around 9" apart and the 1.25" diagonals have a small footprint, then the two diagonal arms can ALWAYS be swung to a position whereby the observer (probably seated) can look horizontally into the eyepieces with his head upright, and only small sideways movements of the head are needed to cater for objects at various declinations. In essence, the observer's position is extremely comfortable and fixed (until a significant change in RA is required).

Get the cardboard, scissors and drawing pins out and prove it for yourself!

Edited by planetmalc (01/10/13 01:51 PM)


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5615631 - 01/10/13 02:22 PM

I don't see this as possible at all... I take it you mean the bino is now oriented such that when pointed toward the horizon, one objective lies directly above the other, effectively having the instrument lying on what would currently be considered the side.

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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5615667 - 01/10/13 02:45 PM Attachment (34 downloads)

The alternate position for positioning the diagonals puts eps much closer to the altitude axis so the swing from horizon to zenith is minimized.

I tried both and prefer the diagonals and ep further back as I generally observe standing and don't like leaning over the binos...


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planetmalc
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Reged: 10/21/09

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5617178 - 01/11/13 12:23 PM

Quote:

I don't see this as possible at all... I take it you mean the bino is now oriented such that when pointed toward the horizon, one objective lies directly above the other, effectively having the instrument lying on what would currently be considered the side.



Exactly (and firstly, may I apologise for leaving the word 'sideways' in my original post; it should have been edited out).

Starfields don't have a 'proper orientation' (if so, they'd be 'upside down' in an absolute sense in the southern hemisphere) so it matters not a jot what their actual orientation is when you observe them - OK, it might be unfamiliar, and require star atlases to be rotated, but it wouldn't be 'wrong'. I accept that it seems less 'right' to do this with a binocular than it does with a telescope because we normally use bins with their OG's parallel to the horizon, but whilst this is a necessity in terrestrial use it is irrelevant for astronomy (asymmetric binoculars are an example of this).

There can't be many knowledgable 'scope users who haven't thought, "I'd love a Springfield mount", because having the fixed observing position is just SO convenient, but they're complicated and probably not compatible with low magnification/wide field aspirations. Designing a Springfield-mount binocular would be a nightmare, but if you use large bins and want your observing position to be as static as possible - and are prepared to compromise by accepting that you could enjoy a 'Springfield effect' for objects at ANY declination, but ONLY across a small-ish range of RA - then surely this would be worth going for. I envisage a seated observer, using a bottom-mounted Mr. Bill design, sitting side-on to whatever he is observing (we already do this with Newtonian telescopes), with his head ALWAYS held in its natural position (upright and with the eyes looking parallel to the ground), observing an object at ANY declination through an arc of 180 degrees, with only small movements of the head being required to compensate for changes in declination. As I said in my original post, if the (principal axes of the) OG's are around 9" apart, and the instrument is bottom-mounted, and the 1.25" diagonals have a small footprint, then for diagonals arms whose diagonals have their centres 4.5" apart (as per Mr Bill's layout in post #1), it is ALWAYS possible to orient the diagonal arms so that horizontally-aligned eyepieces are presented to the observer with the correct IPD (you really have to make a life-size scale model of the system to see the complex geometry that's going on when you swing the diagonal arms around - it's not something you can visualize). The eyepiece position (compared to a fixed datum) DOES move a little (both vertically and horizontally) for changes in declination, but can be compensated for - even if the observer is seated in a fixed-height chair - by slight changes in posture. The observer only ever needs to significantly alter the position of his head when he gets up to move his seat so that he can observe another object which has an appreciably different RA.

If you think about it, when forum members are discussing the relative merits of straight-through, 45-degree or 90-degree eyepiece inclinations (and bemoaning the fact that the preferred 90-degree option usually comes with reduced-aperture problems) then we're really talking about keeping head position as natural as possible, to reduce fatigue; the bottom-mounted Mr. Bill instrument achieves this and all the design work has been done.

Edited by planetmalc (01/11/13 12:42 PM)


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planetmalc
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Reged: 10/21/09

Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #5617192 - 01/11/13 12:30 PM

Quote:

The alternate position for positioning the diagonals puts eps much closer to the altitude axis so the swing from horizon to zenith is minimized.

I tried both and prefer the diagonals and ep further back as I generally observe standing and don't like leaning over the binos...



Leaning is NEVER required if you use the bottom-mounted system, Bill.

Edited by planetmalc (01/11/13 12:45 PM)


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Rich V.
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: planetmalc]
      #5617276 - 01/11/13 01:20 PM

I understand your point, Planetmalc, keeping the eyepieces near and in line with the alt axis limits the viewer's movement for a single eyepiece but with the BinoBox it seems fiddly to have to keep re-setting the diagonals to maintain a relatively level viewing position and still achieve proper IPD from low to high viewing angles.

You've essentially changed the neck motion from up/down to right/left lean. To keep the right/left lean minimal, you'd have to be adjusting the swing of the diagonals frequently.

Unless I had a real neck mobility issue, the standard alt/az orientation with 90 viewing is pretty comfortable for me, whether it's an angled bino or a telescope/diagonal.

For many of us, I think, the familiar up/down orientation of the sky in binoculars (even if L/R reversed in this case) makes moving the bino or scope towards a target more intuitive. YMMV, of course.

Rich


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Mr. Bill]
      #5617865 - 01/11/13 07:39 PM

Looking at Mr. Bill's picture of his mount, above, gave the following construction insight(?) , unrelated to the mount motions:

A "D" size long dovetail pair from ADM, or Losmandy, or other suppliers of mounting quick-release dovetails, could be milled and/or bored and/or bandsawn and then hand filed, to have a large racetrack shaped, or rectangular, opening. This would be the basis for a linear IPD motion of one 2-mirror "prism", to gain an erect image with only two mirrors.

One roof mirror "prism" , fixed to a segment of dovetail, either male or female,would move laterally on a much longer piece of dovetail of the opposite gender. Another segment would hold the other "prism", which would have no lateral IPD motion. It would be fed via a circular or square opening near the racetrack shaped opening.

The eyepiece fed by the moving "prism" would be moved laterally by twice the lateral motion of its "prism". The motions could be 2:1 linked, as in WW II Zeiss 25 x 100 or 12 x 60, 25 &40 x 200, and others, for real-time synchronization.

Or, the 2:1 motion could be set by an observer who is the usual, or only, user, without linkage, to simplify construction.

ADDENDUM 1/13/13 :

Two ADM DUP7M, or comparable offerings from others, bolted together back-to-back ( available bolted from ADM), would form the structural core. The lower, inner DUP7, facing the inside of the box body, would hold each of the roof mirror pair "prisms", one of which would be laterally slidable .

The upper, outside the box DUP7 would hold the female eyepiece carriers, one of which would be laterally movable .

Suitable openings would be made as described.

Edited by Gordon Rayner (01/13/13 01:58 PM)


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Mr. Bill
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Re: 127mm f/5.5 binocular new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5617883 - 01/11/13 07:49 PM

Hey Gordon

I did this with a radial arm saw and a floor drillpress....

if I had a machine shop I could have been more inventive.



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