Photoner
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/06/06
|
World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
#5331012 - 07/23/12 09:26 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Here is more inspiration for large binoc designs: binocular news link
|
edwincjones
Close Enough
   
Reged: 04/10/04
|
Re: World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Photoner]
#5331037 - 07/23/12 09:52 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
several years ago there was a picture on the internet of twin D&G 6" f 12s (or maybe f15s) at the Winter Star Party-but these would just be 6" long plus ep/focuser unit
but both are more than I want to transport
edj
|
Rich V.
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 01/02/05
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
|
Re: World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: edwincjones]
#5331159 - 07/23/12 11:21 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Someone beat Mr. Bill in the Bino Box race! 
Not quite so compact, though, and not so good on stars!
Rich
|
Robert A.
sage
   
Reged: 01/21/05
Loc: Johnson City TN, South Central...
|
Re: World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Rich V.]
#5331191 - 07/23/12 11:53 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
If OG equals 6 inches, means Objective Glass is 6 inches in diameter, and they are 90 inches long, which is 7.5 feet between the glass lenses, I still do not know what the magnification is stated.
For US readers, The auction comes out to 3295 dollars. they had a pre-auction estimate of $465. They are happy with the good bidding!
Rob.
|
Pinewood
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/04
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
|
Re: World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Robert A.]
#5331264 - 07/23/12 12:47 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
.. I still do not know what the magnification is stated.
good bidding!
Rob.
Hello Rob,
At the bottom of the page, there is a nameplate which indicates magnifications of 90, 120 and 150.
Clear skies, Arthur Piinewood
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: World’s biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Pinewood]
#5332184 - 07/23/12 09:54 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
It seems to wording is designed to be confusing... or maybe not. Shouldn't it say something like:
"At the time these were manufactured in the 1940's, they were the worlds biggest binoculars."

Jon
|
holger_merlitz
sage
   
Reged: 02/08/04
|
Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5332273 - 07/23/12 10:51 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
This 200mm Zeiss, made during WWII, was definitely bigger
http://www.europa.com/~telscope/2040x200.jpg
Here some additional information: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/index200.txt
As far as I know, another 200mm binocular was made in Japan during the 1940s ..
Cheers, Holger
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: holger_merlitz]
#5332298 - 07/23/12 11:13 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
This 200mm Zeiss, made during WWII, was definitely bigger
http://www.europa.com/~telscope/2040x200.jpg
Here some additional information: http://home.europa.com/~telscope/index200.txt
As far as I know, another 200mm binocular was made in Japan during the 1940s ..
Cheers, Holger
Holger:
Thanks...
I would be happy to pay $3400 for the Zeiss binos 
Jon
|
Joe Ogiba
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/14/02
Loc: NJ USA
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5332735 - 07/24/12 09:12 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
200mm Zeiss binocular photos : 1
2
3
4
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
   
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Joe Ogiba]
#5333338 - 07/24/12 03:54 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
The Zeiss's are totally awesome... a real instrument of the highest quality. I would love to look through them just once, scan the summer Milky Way.
Jon
|
hallelujah
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5333572 - 07/24/12 06:08 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
The Zeiss's are totally awesome. I would love to look through them just once, scan the summer Milky Way.
Jon
You will probably have to have it mounted on a battleship to be able to use it.
|
Mr. Bill
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/09/05
Loc: Northeastern Cal
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: hallelujah]
#5335039 - 07/25/12 03:21 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Well, these are large for Bino Boxes, but Rich V and I viewed through 22 inch binos at last year's Golden State SP.

ps...I'd rather use my 5 inchers for practical reasons.
|
salientbunny
member
Reged: 06/13/12
Loc: Southeast Georgia, US
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Mr. Bill]
#5336194 - 07/26/12 08:56 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
isn't this the worlds largest pair of binos?
http://www.lbto.org/index.htm
|
Joe Ogiba
Postmaster
   
Reged: 02/14/02
Loc: NJ USA
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: salientbunny]
#5336341 - 07/26/12 10:41 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
isn't this the worlds largest pair of binos?
http://www.lbto.org/index.htm
I bet the Garrett Optical 20x110 & 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series Binoculars are the largest binoculars using a standard binocular body.
|
Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/24/07
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: holger_merlitz]
#5336756 - 07/26/12 02:15 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Your servant found that Zeiss 25 & 40 x 200 specimen in 1967. " Come on in here boy, to see the largest binocular you have ever seen !" said my escort, whose specialty was sunken treasure Caribbean nautical archaeology. He had just noticed the 25&40 x 200 in a darkened warehouse . A forklift took them outside, where I photographed them ( I have the dated B&W negatives and prints), and viewed through them.
The bodies are welded steel . They were called FRG 44 . FRG = Flakrichtgeraet. FRG 44 may refer to the entire apparatus, which was two of these binoculars , L & R, and their mount and readouts.
Leitz , Busch, and Zeiss were asked to develop large Flak binoculars. Leitz was FRG 43, as I recall. I have its plans, and the optical design calculations in the old-style cursive German handwriting. It looks like a large, opened binocular trench periscope or Scherenfernrohr= scissors telescope. It was 30(IIRC) x 180( 200mm? I do not want to dig in microfilm copies today), with an integral finder (12 x 70? from memory). There was a 150mm. version also? Pics of those on the Leitz rooftop are in the Hans Seeger book.
I had already done archival research which found a report by Irvine C. Gardner of the National Bureau of Standards, who had been one of the Allied team which explored the Jena works between the end of the war and the Soviet takeover which dismantled the CZJ factory. I met Gardner at his home that summer. He was the USA rangefinder expert in WW I. See the biography in the ATM books edited by Ingalls, available re-arranged , with additions, from Willmann-Bell, Richmond, Virginia.
Dr. Gardner ( RIP in very early 1970's) showed his photo of this 25 & 40 x 200 on its mount, together with its mate, which was damaged in a pointless April 1945( or thereabouts) US bombing raid. A US bomb probably caused the dent which is or was in the specimen here discussed. In the Gardner photos, each of the two 25 &40 x 200 were mounted on the left and right sides of a rectangular column.
Later, I told George Morris (RIP) what I had seen. Morris then owned the periscope-style 1932 Japanese Naval Technical Institute 40 x 200, which went from Long Beach to Escondido to Rockford, Illinois, to Whidbey Island in Washington State to Kevin Kuhne after Morris' stroke,to another New Englander to ??. There is a picture of David Bushnell posing with them in an early 1950's Popular Mechanics or Popular Science : "World's Largest Binocular" . I have forgotten or lost track where the 40 x 200 1932 JNTI was recently.
Collectors chase it. It is uncoated, bronze, very heavy, perhaps 300-400 pounds.
There is a 250 mm WW II binocular telescope in the Tokyo Science Museum, IIRC.
There is a Zeiss 25 & 40 x 200 mm. specimen in a museum or military depot in the UK. I do not have the details in memory.
Total production of the 25&40 x 200 (or of the FRG 44 as a pair?), was something under 12 , IIRC. I do not know if any reached active Flak service.
In 1970, the 200mm Zeiss was in the inventory of the Smithsonian department headed by Alvan Clark & Sons expert and author Deborah Jean Warner. She told me that it was on loan from the US Navy. There was nothing naval about it that I ever saw in archival records. I did further archival research in 1970, finding 25&40 x 200 original Zeiss records. I know that it had been at USAF Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio soon after the war. Senior staff in 1970: "Yes, I remember that big binocular" . How it came from Wright Field to be in Naval Historical custody is a mystery.
Zeiss records which were extracted from Jena pre-Soviet takeover were also at Wright Field shortly after the war. Edward Kaprelian (RIP) might have been the man with whom to speak, but he was RIP when I realized that.
Morris told Kevin Kuhne (RIP)about what I had found. Kuhne phoned me repeatedly in the late 1970s or early 1980's about this topic. He accumulated enough information from Morris , and some from me, to eventually find and convince a staff member at the Naval Historical Center to let him have the 25 & 40 x 200 on what Kuhne called a "long term" loan, in return for fixing some problems it had.
Kuhne never told me how or when the Navy decided to repossess it. Kuhne had suffered some strokes before we last spoke. Perhaps someone can fill in the details about how it found its way from the Navy to its present home in a museum in Germany. I thought that the Naval Oservatory station in Flagstaff, Arizona, would have been a suitable home. In a phone conversation, Dr. Seeger said that it was "government to government" . No surprise there. Was it quid pro quo? Would the ESO house it in an accessible small observatory near their facilties in ideal Chilean locations?
It is noteworthy that in the Kuhne section of the Seeger book there is not one mention of my archival digging for the CZJ 25&40 x 200 records, nor of my "discovery" of it,with lots of dust on it, in 1967.
|
planetmalc
sage
Reged: 10/21/09
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Gordon Rayner]
#5338111 - 07/27/12 09:43 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
It is noteworthy that in the Kuhne section of the Seeger book there is not one mention of my archival digging for the CZJ 25&40 x 200 records, nor of my "discovery" of it,with lots of dust on it, in 1967.
Anyone who's worked in a laboratory will feel your pain, Gordon, as we routinely see our discoveries credited to desk-jockey Departmental Heads and the like. A mental comparison between the 25&40 x 200 and the (Jap?) 30 x 180 that Walter Scott Houston featured in his S & T column, back in the 60's, shows just how OTT the big Zeiss are - totally over-engineered!
|
Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/24/07
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: planetmalc]
#5338759 - 07/27/12 05:02 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I remember the W.S. Houston 1969 (?) photo of his 15 deg. inclined 20 x 120. We met at his home in Haddam, Conn. in 1970. I owned one of those in the 1970's. They are WW II Nikko or Toko. The prism cluster is a modified Porro II, followed by a rhomboid prism which rotates for interpupillary distance adjustment.
They were not antireflection treated.
A Nikko 22.5 & 30 x 180 is heavy, about 130 lbs, IIRC. One of those was the first big binocular I saw. It was later badly damaged in a fire.
|
Pinewood
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/04
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
|
Re: Zeiss 200 mm
[Re: Gordon Rayner]
#5338836 - 07/27/12 06:03 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Hello Gordon,
You wrote that the Zeiss was used in pairs for directing AAA. Do you know anything of the range altitude computer, which would have been used with such a setup?
Clear skies, Arthur Pinewood
|
Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 03/24/07
|
Re: Zeiss 200 mm
[Re: Pinewood]
#5338867 - 07/27/12 06:28 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I do not. Perhaps the Gardner family heirs have his photographs, which might show something of interest. Our meeting was 42 years ago, so my memory of his photo(s) has dimmed.
There may be something in the microfilms and paper copies, but that would be a research job . They are in storage, not near me. I do not recall any detailed information about tracking computation.
Were devices of that era mechanical disc integrators such as(?) the Norden bombsight, or were they early electomechanical or electrical ?
|
hallelujah
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 07/14/06
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
|
Re: Not the biggest binoculars made in the 1940s
[Re: Gordon Rayner]
#5340602 - 07/28/12 08:16 PM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Here's another link:
http://home.europa.com/~telscope/index200.txt
And another:
http://www.europa.com/~telscope/binotele.htm
Edited by hallelujah (07/28/12 08:19 PM)
|