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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: ronharper]
      #5568955 - 12/13/12 10:29 AM

Excellent information in "Best of" section... It's so nice to learn and understand...
Thanks Jay for the suggestion.
Ron, I will report back, of course.


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BobinKy
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5569006 - 12/13/12 10:52 AM

Quote:

I don't see the EO Triumph listed as a 7x35; only an 8x42.

Rich V





B&H Photo carries the Eagle Optics Triumph 7x35, along with some other cheap 7x35s.


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Gordon Rayner
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: Simon S]
      #5569699 - 12/13/12 06:14 PM

There were many 7 x 35 central focus wide angle binoculars from Japan sold in the 1950's, '60's, .... A few were 8 x 40 wide angle , and some very early ones were individual focus.
The mechanisms of the highest grade Bushnell, Selsi, Tasco, Swift, Mayflower, Sears, ..., from then are, in most, but not all, cases, better than what you have mentioned.

A good, well preserved used 7 x 35 WA, which have been easy to find in recent years, is a good handheld performer in light polluted areas . They are relatively light, and the low magnification and wide field are a bonus for the beginner exploring the sky.

I suppose that a G..gle search would answer questions about IPD in children. I recall being given an introductory book about the constellations to read in a second grade primary classroom . I was not given access to, or did not ask permission for use of, a family WW II Busch IF 10 x 50 marked "Dientstglas" until probably age 12. That was in a rainy, often overcast suburban location.

Thrift stores in the US, Craig's List, local advertising have been sources of those in recent years, probably for actuarial reasons. I bought a few at very low prices, but my sources have dried up when I have occasionally looked recently ( I do not need any more 7 x 35WA). There is a lot of cheapo junk, relatively recently produced .
Caveat emptor.


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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5582503 - 12/21/12 01:18 PM

I received yesterday the Kowa binoculars. I can only give my first impressions... I cannot try them under the stars, cause there are no stars for the moment... so itís just daylight views. Also, although they were not intended as a Christmas gift, as they arrived so close to Christmas they will be Santaís gift afterall, so I cannot use them a lot because my daughter shouldnít see them before Christmas.

They look solid to me... Of course, I never had expensive binoculars in my hands with whom to compare, but I think they are alright. The focus knob works smoothly, a little tighter on the x8 but itís OK on both. I like the IP scale, itís easy to get a sense of everyoneís size, and changing them between different persons is easier. Me for example, Iím somewhere around 62mm.

I donít get the eyepiece and objective lens caps. They are loose, they could be useful for storage, but not for actual usage in the field, you would lose them.

The twist-up eyecup functions as expected, good quality and easy to use. I didnít have to use the diopter ring, I might try it but for the moment I didnít need to.

The image is wonderfully clear; I suppose this is the most important thing. I found that the most comfortable way of using them is to rest the eyecups below my eyebrows, this results in the best eyerelief for me. I donít wear glasses.

I have a problem though... After adjusting them for my IP distance, the two circular images of the objective lenses are not perfectly superposed. The image itself is perfect, I donít find any fault for the image of the object that is observed, itís clear and crisp. Itís the borders on the left and right that are not perfectly crisp. Both on the left and right edges I can see the normal field stop, coming from the respective objective lens, and the other field stop, soft and much weaker, not perfectly aligned on the first one. I donít know if this makes sense, please understand that itís for the first time that I use binoculars, maybe itís normal and acceptable as long as the image itself of the object that is being observed is very, very clear.

These are my first impressions after very little usage.

Virgil.


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ronharper
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5582563 - 12/21/12 02:17 PM

Virgil,
In binoculars at this modest price point, lenses and coatings can be very good as you have noticed, but mechanical tolerances are not. As a result, in making the adjustment for "binocular collimation" ie the two telescopes pointing the same direction, the adjustments of the innards of one or both telescopes must be de-optimized (screwed up), in order to change the effective pointing direction of the optical axis with respect to the mechanical barrel. Misalignment of field edges and unsharp field edges are just part of the deal. "Binocular collimation", however, is crucial for relaxed usage without eyestrain--much more important than the appearance of the edge of the field. If that is set right, you are in as good shape as you can hope for.

FWIW, field edge misalignment is not unknown even in the stratosphere of binoculardom. Some users have reported such effects in the $2500 Swarovski Swarovision. This binocular uses eccentrically mounted eyepieces for collimation, but the field stops are non moving! It wouldn't be so bad, except the optics are so perfect that the edge is razor sharp, so people really tend to look out there carefully. Even though I own one, I gotta laugh.

Scrutinizing the edge is usually a bad idea. Now wrap em back up and pretend this never happened.

Merry Christmas,
Ron


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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: ronharper]
      #5582756 - 12/21/12 04:21 PM

Thanks Ron, now I understand. I guess itís a small price to pay for good optics. Iím relieved to see that I shouldnít exchange them for that.

The 3D effect is surprising. When you look with your bare eyes, itís there, naturally, but itís as if you donít notice it because itís so ubiquitous. But through these binoculars (maybe through any binoculars?) itís somehow different and quite spectacular and itís as if you notice it for the first time. Hard to explain... When I focus on something the image just snaps into focus, excellent. I can see that the field of view is a little small but I can live with that... at least the field is sharp, and when I look at something Iím certainly not concerned about the edge of field. I did also notice a slight dimming at the edge of field, but I'm sure this is just normal.

I canít wait to try them on stars...

Merry Christmas!


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Jay_Bird
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5583048 - 12/21/12 07:09 PM

Great that you got these in time for Christmas.

If you were looking at objects in the same yard or even in the same block, rather than just in the same galaxy, some of the field mis-match could be from lack of full overlap which increases at closer distances and results from the spacing between the objectives of each binocualr barrel.

Even if you noticed this looking at something very distant in daytime, the effect will be less noticable at night.

Good luck and lots of clear skies for you and daughter.


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John_G
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: ronharper]
      #5583120 - 12/21/12 07:46 PM

I'm not a technical guy and I haven't read through all the posts but please don't underestimate the 8x40s for astronomy. My first look through me Nikon's was at a a Bortle 1 site (46.982917,-76.481388) and the view was magnificent. Structure. At one moment I stood there on the runway with my 10x50s and scanned the Milky Way from Sgr to Per. I'll never forget seeing the h Per / Chi Per with my 15x70s. I've seen the them many times under more LP, but the view that night with my 15x70s unforgettable. I'll never forget. It was magnificent.

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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: John_G]
      #5583376 - 12/21/12 11:23 PM

Quote:

My first look through me Nikon's was at a a Bortle 1 site (46.982917,-76.481388).




Bortle 1 sky... well, what more can be said... I think it's only once in my life that I've seen Bortle 1 skies... I was a kid, 40 years ago, rural Romania, a small village without electricity where my grand parents lived. NO LIGHTS whatsoever... anywhere!! naked eyes of course... Milky Way was just so bright!
Oh well...


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BillC
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5583514 - 12/22/12 01:54 AM

"The image itself is perfect, I donít find any fault for the image of the object that is observed, itís clear and crisp. Itís the borders on the left and right that are not perfectly crisp."

If the image is fine, but the edges of the field are not, you are looking at a target that is too close or are looking AT those overlapping fields. In either case, when you do, you are crossing your eyes; and what happens when you cross your eyes? Bingo! Look at the image and don't worry about the rest. If it's wrong, it will tell you. Oh, my aching head!

Cheers,

BillC


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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: BillC]
      #5600940 - 01/02/13 10:19 AM

Hello,

I tested these binoculars during the night, and they are fine. The Moon for example was beautiful. The problem is that for the moment I cannot use them extensively, nor can I give a detailed report. It is very cold outside, so during the few clear nights that I had, I could only observe for a few minutes. Then there is the light pollution and the constant glow of the snow on the ground that reduces the contrast. And then it is my hand shake. It is my first time using binoculars, I am after years of observing through telescope so I am used with stars staying still so now I'm really frustrated by the shake that I'm experimenting. I will need a mount, but then comfort is really important for me so I don't want to strain my neck on some usual camera tripod, but then what could I do? use a parallelogram mount for a 8x30? So I'm kind of frustrated and in search of solutions...

Virgil.


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Mark9473
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5600995 - 01/02/13 10:46 AM

Relax, give yourself some time to learn how to keep them steady. Can't expect perfection the very first time. I wouldn't easily give up the benefits of free-handed use with small binoculars such as your 8x30.

A good in-between solution is to attach something to the binocular while still holding them in your hands. A *small* tripod works well too, and you can then hold the tripod when lifting the binoculars to your eyes.

But still it's best to just train yourself in hand-holding your binoculars.


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BobinKy
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5601077 - 01/02/13 11:21 AM

Quote:

. . . And then it is my hand shake. It is my first time using binoculars, I am after years of observing through telescope so I am used with stars staying still so now I'm really frustrated by the shake that I'm experimenting. I will need a mount, but then comfort is really important for me so I don't want to strain my neck on some usual camera tripod, but then what could I do? use a parallelogram mount for a 8x30? So I'm kind of frustrated and in search of solutions...




Some have good results at steadying binoculars by pressing the eye cups against the bones behind the eyebrows. Another trick is to keep the elbows tucked close to the ribs. Leaning against a wall or tree also helps, as do car roofs. Chaise lounge with arm rests are also great.

There are other tips at this CN thread: Tips on holding binoculars. Google around--there used to be some video clips about holding tips.

And practice inside before you go out in the cold night. Stand in front of a window and try several techniques.

Sometimes very light binoculars are more difficult to keep steady than heavier ones. And the shape of your face also comes into the equation, as do the type of gloves on your hand and the coat you are wearing. Regarding binocular weight, I have better luck keeping a 2-lb and 3-lb binocular more steady than something lighter. Some binoculars are designed for long observations, while others are better at quick peeks.

As Mark said, practice and find what works best for you.

I hope this helps.


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ronharper
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5601235 - 01/02/13 01:09 PM

I like leaning back in a chair that supports my back, elbows, and head. Looking up at steep angles doesn't strain my neck that way, and the view at 8x is so steady it's almost perfect. The technique is of course very sedentary, so add blankets as necessary. I observe soon after dark before the temperature drops so much. At 20degF an hour is all I can take, and around 10deg, I draw the line.

I think everybody develops their own personal limits, and tricks for steadiness and comfort. Winter nights are not to be missed however, the sky having the brightest stars and clusters, and holding up well to reflected light pollution. The colder it gets, the more desirable a binocular's "quick look" ability becomes.

Christmas--what a stupid time to get new binoculars! But, we do it.
Ron


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mv1612
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Reged: 08/11/09

Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: ronharper]
      #5601990 - 01/02/13 09:26 PM

Quote:

At 20degF an hour is all I can take, and around 10deg, I draw the line.
Ron




Well, now it's -20degC here, that is -4degF and it's beautifully clear

Thanks everyone for the suggestions, I will try to develop a technique... !

Virgil.


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Lou3
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Reged: 07/19/12

Loc: PA, USA
Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: mv1612]
      #5602160 - 01/02/13 11:29 PM

Have any of you tried a monopod? If so, did it help much?

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SMark
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Re: 7x35 binoculars for viewing the stars? new [Re: Lou3]
      #5602171 - 01/02/13 11:32 PM

Yeah, the monopod works well. Sometimes it's just what you need. I have a monopod along with 4 tripods. I much prefer the monopod with my smaller binoculars.

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