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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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darren8se
member


Reged: 09/01/13

had a go at solar with my WO,s
      #6063867 - 09/05/13 07:28 AM

WOW !! was doing some white light work today so I thought id have a quick look at our own star with the binoviewers and wow amazing like your hovering over the star I could clearly make out granulation and plage and the sunspots were nice and sharp and seemed to pop out at you Amazing I can safely say im hooked on binoviewers from now on

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seawolfe
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/26/13

Loc: N 47.11.23 W 122.20.18
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: darren8se]
      #6063918 - 09/05/13 08:30 AM

Oooh! I wanna try! (Gotta get solar filters 1st!)

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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: darren8se]
      #6063953 - 09/05/13 08:58 AM

Yes, I have been doing more solar than ever since binoviewing.

I even bought a used pair of Burgess binoviewers that I could leave in my scope outside on my covered patio.

The first time I tried it was this spring after getting a solar filter for Christmas, and the first time I looked, I was amazed.

I had done white light solar many time in years gone by, but never felt the view was nearly as good as with BVs.

Now, almost every sunny day, I look at the sun. Even if it is only for a few minutes, it is always amazing to see.

In particular, I think the granulation and in particular, the facula seem to show better in binoviewers.

Nice to hear your report. Enjoy your binoviewers.


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Pingster
member


Reged: 06/27/11

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6064046 - 09/05/13 09:54 AM

I am amazed too with the WO and white solar. The details this budget bino gives are astounding. You can see around the edge of the sun ripples of larva/flow.

Compared to my mrk5 bino is not quite as good, but still for the price you oay its about 90% as good for white solar.

Btw does anyone know if a lunt solar shows the prominences flowing or are they static and take days to move?


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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Pingster]
      #6064066 - 09/05/13 10:06 AM

Quote:

Btw does anyone know if a lunt solar shows the prominences flowing or are they static and take days to move?




Here's a site I check whenever there's clear daytime skies to see if I want to set up my solar gear: GONG H alpha movies My double-stacked Coronado 90 shows quite a bit more than these H-alpha movies and better still with the binoviewers. If by "lunt" you mean their hydrogen alpha scopes, then the answer would be yes. Nearly all solar features are extremely dynamic, but so is a flower opening and hardly anyone sits around for hours to see that happen. The individual frames of the GONG images are separated by 4 minutes and played back quickly so the motion is obvious, just like watching a fast-playback of anything that's slower than what motion we're accustomed to seeing. Here's a link to the H Alpha Network Monitor where you can select the site you'd like and movie options, too.


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Relativist
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Reged: 10/11/03

Loc: OC, CA, USA
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: DaveJ]
      #6064390 - 09/05/13 12:51 PM

Nice, just thought I post a safety warning for noobs out there.

DO NOT LOOK AT THE SUN THROUGH A TELESCOPE, ESPECIALLY WITH BINOVIEWERS!

The correct equipment and observing gear is required. Just because you have binoviewers does not mean that's all you need for solar observing!


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R Botero
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Loc: Kent, England
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: darren8se]
      #6064704 - 09/05/13 03:39 PM

The sun is a great sight with binoviewers! My Mark IV + 28mm RKEs put me right there!

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darren8se
member


Reged: 09/01/13

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Relativist]
      #6068059 - 09/07/13 04:00 PM

Quote:

Nice, just thought I post a safety warning for noobs out there.

DO NOT LOOK AT THE SUN THROUGH A TELESCOPE, ESPECIALLY WITH BINOVIEWERS!
The correct equipment and observing gear is required. Just because you have binoviewers does not mean that's all you need for solar observing!




I have a white light filter attached to the front of my scope when solar viewing

Edited by darren8se (09/07/13 04:02 PM)


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s *DELETED* new [Re: Relativist]
      #6070243 - 09/08/13 08:56 PM

Post deleted by Geo557

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Geo557Moderator
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Reged: 10/10/07

Loc: SE GA
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Relativist]
      #6072088 - 09/09/13 08:45 PM

Quote:

Nice, just thought I post a safety warning for noobs out there.

DO NOT LOOK AT THE SUN THROUGH A TELESCOPE, ESPECIALLY WITH BINOVIEWERS!

The correct equipment and observing gear is required. Just because you have binoviewers does not mean that's all you need for solar observing!





Moderators Note:

The quote above should be read through COMPLETLY. An easy statement to misinterpret, and yes as many know it is fine to observe the sun with binoviewers with the correct use of a SOLAR FILTER, but as the post continues through it also says "The correct equipment and observing gear is required". As in the correct use of a solar filter. Perhaps the second to the last sentence within the quote should have been capitalized instead.

Please, no more "oops" images (even with solar filters on) that would tend to joke about safety, especially with solar observing.


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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Geo557]
      #6074402 - 09/11/13 04:44 AM

Badder solar filter film is pretty cheap. Whats the difference between that and a solar glass filter which ain't so cheap. I have to try this with my WO's and 6" frac.
Matt


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darren8se
member


Reged: 09/01/13

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6074407 - 09/11/13 04:58 AM

Quote:

Badder solar filter film is pretty cheap. Whats the difference between that and a solar glass filter which ain't so cheap. I have to try this with my WO's and 6" frac.
Matt




ive only ever used the baader safty film but as far as I know other than the material there made from I don't think there is any difference in what you will see ?? maybe a difference in contrast but hey are both white light so you still only going to see sunspots and the faculae around the edge unless im mistaken im sure someone with more experience will be able to shed more light on it


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: darren8se]
      #6074609 - 09/11/13 09:04 AM

There are several reviews that compare these two filter types on the web.

In general, the differences are apparently real, but subtle.

For one, the sun is usually very orange in the glass filters and I think it is more white in the Baader.

The primary differences I believe I have heard are that granulation and some of the delicate structure in the penumrba of sunspots is a bit easier to resolve.

Anyway, there are many vaired reposts that tend to suggest that the Baader Solar film provides a bit more contrast and sharpbess than the metal filters.

I have a metal filter (Metal film over glass) and it works well enough, but I intend to buy some Baader film and make another filter to compare one day.. Many people swear by the Baader.

And this... I have used solar fitlers on and off over the decades, but never really found the sun to be that exciting.

The first time I looked at the sun with my binoviewers in the C5 with the glass filter though (which I got for a Christmas present.. I would most likley have bought a Baader film filter) it made more difference than I think any filter would.

Oh, of course the question then is "Why would anyone buy the glass filters if the Baader is better?

Well, the glass is very durable, and some prefer the color more.

An suggestion... Go to the forum here on solar observing. Many people post pictures taken with different filters. A great way to "Preview" the differences...


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Doug Culbertson
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Reged: 01/06/05

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6074669 - 09/11/13 09:38 AM

I've used both the Baader and an Orion (JMB) glass solar filter, and liked both. I think that I see a bit more faculae with the Baader, but I would not swear to it.

BTW, if you already have a Baader filter, and want to see an orange sun, you can simply stack red and yellow filters to get pretty much the same effect. With binoviewers, you can actually put a red filter in one eyepiece and a yellow in the other eyepiece and still get orange.


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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #6075626 - 09/11/13 06:06 PM

Thanks. Will get some film and try it. Good one about the filters Doug have to do that too...at long last a use for those 1.25" filters I bought a few years ago and never used!
Matt


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6076577 - 09/12/13 09:13 AM

+1 for baader film
the best bang for your buck.




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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Pinbout]
      #6099980 - 09/25/13 09:24 AM

Gone and bought the Badder film. The view looks exactly like the photos in white light. Can see the granulation clearly, an Orange and Yellow filter on each eyepiece makes it even better.
My first Solar look since the late 70's with a Unitron 3" and a projection screen.
Not as 'Wow' as the Moon but well worth it.
Matt


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6100009 - 09/25/13 09:46 AM

I know this may sound funny, but if you have not tired using very low power, you should try it.

I find that the large facula around the limb seem to show up much better with lower powers. It is harder to see the granularity with low power, but everything else looks much better.


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6100605 - 09/25/13 02:59 PM

Quote:

Badder solar filter film is pretty cheap. Whats the difference between that and a solar glass filter which ain't so cheap. I have to try this with my WO's and 6" frac.
Matt




I've been solar observing for a couple of decades with a wide variety of equipment. Get the Baader solar film, it will beat any glass filter for contrast and detail unless you're willing to spend big bucks for a glass solar filter made with optical glass. A real optical glass filter is expensive, a 3.5" is $625 and a 7" is $1600. Inexpensive glass solar filters are made with window glass and typically introduce several waves of badness. For instance, my Thousand Oaks glass filter NEVER showed me granulation with a 4" scope even in excellent seeing, Baader film almost always shows granulation even in crummy seeing, easily rivals my 1/4 wave Zeiss glass solar filter at a fraction of the price. Difference is obvious. This is not a criticism of the inexpensive glass filters, they are made to a price point. Haven't tried a Herschel wedge.


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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Paul G]
      #6100651 - 09/25/13 03:20 PM

Quote:

I've been solar observing for a couple of decades with a wide variety of equipment. Get the Baader solar film, it will beat any glass filter for contrast and detail unless you're willing to spend big bucks for a glass solar filter made with optical glass. A real optical glass filter is expensive, a 3.5" is $625 and a 7" is $1600. Inexpensive glass solar filters are made with window glass and typically introduce several waves of badness. For instance, my Thousand Oaks glass filter NEVER showed me granulation with a 4" scope even in excellent seeing, Baader film almost always shows granulation even in crummy seeing, easily rivals my 1/4 wave Zeiss glass solar filter at a fraction of the price. Difference is obvious. This is not a criticism of the inexpensive glass filters, they are made to a price point. Haven't tried a Herschel wedge.




I hate to break it to you, but the Baader Herschel Wedge is that much better again! And binoviewing with the Wedge is pure joy. I think you'd be tremendously surprised, from one long-time solar observer to another.


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: DaveJ]
      #6100748 - 09/25/13 04:07 PM

The problem with the Baader Solar Wedge is that you can buy a complete Ha Telescope for less.

Coronado PST is only $699 vs $750 for the Baader wedge.

Not saying that the Baader is not perhaps the best for white light, but at the price, most people are going to get solar film and call it good.


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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6101075 - 09/25/13 06:51 PM

Quote:

I know this may sound funny, but if you have not tired using very low power, you should try it.

I find that the large facula around the limb seem to show up much better with lower powers. It is harder to see the granularity with low power, but everything else looks much better.




I did use my ES 40mm 68º eyepiece and the sun was a beautiful white orb in the FOV. There were lots of clouds around so it was a short session. Next time hopefully.
Matt


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Rinaldo
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/28/04

Loc: Lawng-eye-lind - New York, USA
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6101559 - 09/25/13 11:54 PM

The primary reason I bought a binoviewer is solar. I find that I see the surface detail much better with it. The reduction in eyestrain and clarity from eye floaters is a major plus!

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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Rinaldo]
      #6101855 - 09/26/13 08:58 AM

I had reported on this a few months ago. I have done solar observing on and off over the last 10 or 12 years, but never really felt Like I was getting a great view.

I had received a new glass solar filter as a gift, but just did not have all the big desire to use it.

But when I did use it with the C5 in the binoviewers, I was immediatly captivated. The best solar I had ever done with the C5.

And I got into the habit of taking my scope out just about every day for a quick look!!!

I credit the Binoviewer as a major contributor to my new passion for solar.

Let my filter slide off of the scope yesterday and it broke so I think I will try a Baader filter to replace it.


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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6124051 - 10/08/13 02:39 AM

At long last got to spend a couple of hours with bino's, Baader film and the Sun.
I take back my last post saying it was not as wow as the moon. It is.
Tried RKE 28's and Agena Astro 20mm SWA's, with and without the OCS. Is it possible to see Solar filaments/ loops in white light? Wasn't sure but above a sunspot near the edge was one...maybe.
To be sure bino's are it, I put in my XW 10mm and....pretty dull compared to the 20mm pair. XW's are great eyepieces so I presume if I put in a pair of 20mm XW's or 19mm Panoptics the view would be better than the 20mm SWA's????
All in all a terrific way to spend a few hours.
Matt


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DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6124293 - 10/08/13 08:25 AM

Quote:

Is it possible to see Solar filaments/ loops in white light? Wasn't sure but above a sunspot near the edge was one...maybe.




Sorry, Matt, no. To see filaments/loops/prominences requires an H-a (hydrogen-alpha) setup. Start saving now because once you've seen them, you'll want a setup of your own. It happened to me and others, as well.


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6124394 - 10/08/13 09:16 AM

Quote:

take back my last post saying it was not as wow as the moon. It is.





That is what I was trying to express earlier. I have tried to love white light solar for 12 or 14 years and nevery really enjoyed it that much.

The first time I looked at the sun in white light with the binoviewers though, it was fantastic. There was just so much detail there, and the facula was just so much easier to see.

I recenly broke my solar filter, but before that happened, I was observing the sun three for four times a week.

My Polaris mount is on loan, but when I get it back, I will get a new filter and get back into the habit.

It is amazing though how great the sun looks when binoviewing.


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Messyone
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/12

Loc: Down Under
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6125269 - 10/08/13 03:51 PM

Thanks Dave, my imagination must have been working overtime. H-a...scope, got me thinking....and Eddgie I can see now why you are going totally bino.
A Baddder MkV a couple of GPC's or a Binotron with powerswitch and a couple of pairs of eyepieces could be all one could want....
Matt


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Messyone]
      #6125309 - 10/08/13 04:05 PM

My age may have something to do with it, but lately I just can't seem to get the same sharpness with monovision.

The move from the C14 to the 12" dob was driven in part by the ability to get a wide true field while binoviewing.

By this I mean that I could have gone to a 14" dob, but even though it would have been f/4.5, it is still longer than the 12".

At some point you have to make a compromise and my compromise was to take a bit less aperture for the wider true field I could get with binoviewers.

I miss the aperture on Globulars, but there are so many nice large clusters that now fit into the BV field that I felt it was a good tradeoff.

I have been looking at Solar wedges. The Baader is just to darned expensive.

The Lunt 1.25" wedge is only $220, but it does not take T2.

I was getting ready to buy another solar filter (Astrozap baader) but decided I would write to Lunt and ask them if they would not consider selling their 1.25" diagonal with a T2 top rather than a 1.25" eyepiece holder.

All of us binoviewer types with Maxbrights, Televue, or Mark V have to start asking vendors to offer a T2 thread option!!!


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A6Q6
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/31/11

Loc: Stroudsburg,Pa,U.S.A
Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: darren8se]
      #6135436 - 10/13/13 05:21 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

I have an Orion glass filter, 6" that I got for my Quantum 6. It would never focus . Reduced to 5" it works great on my C5 with Orion Bino's

Edited by A6Q6 (10/13/13 05:28 PM)


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: had a go at solar with my WO,s new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6136517 - 10/14/13 09:40 AM

A followup.

I contacted lunt to see if they had an optoin to allow T2 connection.

No. None planned.

Also, there is a filter in the eyepiece holder.

I am almost all bino now, and my atitude is very quickly becoming "If it does not work with T2, I don't want it."

I have two Mark Vs and I want to be able to move them back and forth and also the refractor won't reach focus without a GPC if I have to use an eyepeice holder and a 1.25" nose and I don't have any more room to cut the tube.

So, Lunt is out for me.

Baader is to big for me.. Loose to much apeture with the additional light path.

So I am going to just be happy with the Astrozap Baader film filter. I am sure there is a bit of gain with the wedge, but I am just not intresed in jumping though hoops to utilize it (putting in GPC, cutting tube, reducing apeture more than I have to, etc).


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