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Equipment Discussions >> Binoviewers

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contrailmaker
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: EuropaWill]
      #6307050 - 01/11/14 09:04 PM

I have used a full aperture Orion glass filter with my 100ED for years and also the Baader film. The Orion image is not as bright as with the Baader film, which I actually prefer. As with the PST, once the eyes get adjusted to the level of illumination and the color, a lot more detail can be seen. Ultimately, I stopped using the Baader film because it deteriorated too fast for my taste. Your mileage may vary but I use my solar filters a lot. Either way you can not loose. Either filter will give great views of the current solar activity, especially if using a binoviewer.

CM


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: contrailmaker]
      #6308181 - 01/12/14 01:37 PM

I've been using the Baader film since it was first introduced in 1999 and there is no deterioration at all. Can you be more specific?

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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Paul G]
      #6308213 - 01/12/14 01:54 PM

I am actually concerned that the film may deterriorate slightly as well, but I do not have a baseline.

When I bought my filter about 6 months ago, views were superb.

Lately though I have noticed that there is a lot of glow around the sun.

If I hold the filter up to the light, I cannot see any pinholes, but if I have the filter on the scope and look down into the diagonal without an eyepecie in place, there appear to be a very large number of ultra-tiny pinholes.

Not visible when just held up to the sun, but visible at the focal plane when no eyepeice is there.

Again, maybe the fitler was always this way. I don't know, becaues I never checked it when it was new.

But just before I got my wedge, I had indeed become a bit concerned that the performance had fallen off a tiny bit.

I would be interested in knowing why CN thinks his film has degraded as well.

An important edit.

I think the filter is still 100% safe to use. The image is not any brighter than it used to be I don't think, but it seems that the contrast has fallen off very slightly.

I have rinsed the fiter several times, and the filter sits in the sun for hours at a time, and I used it several times a week. So, it has indeed been exposed to UV a lot.

Edited by Eddgie (01/12/14 01:56 PM)


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Philip Levine
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/22/07

Loc: near Boston, MA
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6308417 - 01/12/14 03:31 PM

Eddgie,
Oh yeah....I was able to enjoy some white light observing with a binoviewer this morning, even though the Sun was in and out of thin clouds, and even though the wind gusts impacted tripod/scope steadiness. Quite a collection of sunspots strung along the mid-section of the Sun, and some surface detail - given the less than optimal seeing conditions.
My setup: William Optics 80mm Zenithstar II refractor, Baader Herschel Wedge, Baader Maxbright binoviewer with 1.25x glasspath compensator, and TeleVue 2.5x Powermate. I used two sets of eyepieces for viewing: a pair of University Optics 18mm volcano top orthos, and then tried a pair of TeleVue 13mm Naglers.
(Note for George - I have to use the Powermate in order to achieve focus, without it I do not have enough back-focus)
I did enjoy viewing with the UO eyepieces more than with the Naglers, slightly less magnification made for crisper detail.
Eddgie, thanks for the recommendation to try binoviewers and white light Solar viewing. The conditions today were less than optimal, but still very enjoyable, looking forward to much more time viewing solar white light.
Phil


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Philip Levine]
      #6308511 - 01/12/14 04:17 PM

I am surprised that you have not done this before! I mean you had all the stuff!

But glad you gave it a try.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6308624 - 01/12/14 05:07 PM

Pinholes are nothing to worry about.

Still, I've been using mine for ~15 years without any issues. I don't wash mine with water, just puff a little air on it.


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contrailmaker
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Paul G]
      #6308908 - 01/12/14 07:09 PM

Basically I just kept getting more pinholes. For a while I would cover them using a black sharpie but after a few months I decided there were enough holes and some were quite larger than pinhole size. Kind of like a flaking effect. This is all more than 6 years ago but in total I have gone through 3 different sheets of film, some of which I split with friends. Maybe the durability of the film has improved since then.

Now, when the solar activity is high I observe a lot so my filters got a lot of use. I am always very careful with my equipment but I decided to stick to the glass filter which delivers a very acceptable image IMHO and no deteriration so far.

CM

Edited by contrailmaker (01/12/14 07:10 PM)


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Philip Levine
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/22/07

Loc: near Boston, MA
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6309350 - 01/12/14 11:18 PM

Quote:

I am surprised that you have not done this before! I mean you had all the stuff!

But glad you gave it a try.



Eddgie, an unexpected bonus with the Herschel wedge/binoviewer combo is I am able to use higher magnification than with h-alpha bf10-diagonal/binoviewer. The only eyepiece pair that seemed to work for h-alpha setup was a set of 26mm plossls.
I didn't think 26mm would show much sunspot detail, so never tried the binoviewer with the Herschel wedge until recently.
Hence the surprise I could use 18mm and 13mm pairs.
If the Sun cooperates, and gives us more interesting ss activity, I'll be a happy camper.
Phil


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: contrailmaker]
      #6310067 - 01/13/14 11:29 AM

See, This is interesting to me because this is what I thought was happening to my own solar filter.

I used this thing a lot, and it would sit in the sun for hours.

And now, when I look thought he scope with no eyepeices, the entire filter is covered with microscopic holes!!!

To be fair, I did not try this when the filter was new, but I noticed that the sky was starting to appear bright around the suns limb, when before it seemed much blacker.

And I noticed that granulation seemed to be getting harder to see. At first I thought it might be seeing or other factors, but one day when I had the eyepiece out, I noticed this hughe amount of microscopie holes bleeding light on to the focal plane.

Again, filter does not seem dangerous to use. Is still about the same overall level of brightnes, but I could have sworn that the contrast was starting to degrade slightly.

Perhaps not my imagination after all..


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lbsgville
sage


Reged: 06/15/10

Loc: Florida
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: PJ Anway]
      #6315605 - 01/15/14 11:04 PM

Try using an orange filter on the bino corrector with the white light filter in place. I have the Zhumell 25X100 binoculars that have filter threads at the eyepiece. I got another set of filters to view the sun with my homemade white light filters and the orange is the best. Then I tried an orange filter with my binos on my dob with white light filter and love it.

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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Philip Levine]
      #6315771 - 01/16/14 01:46 AM

Quote:


My setup: William Optics 80mm Zenithstar II refractor, Baader Herschel Wedge, Baader Maxbright binoviewer with 1.25x glasspath compensator, and TeleVue 2.5x Powermate. I used two sets of eyepieces for viewing: a pair of University Optics 18mm volcano top orthos, and then tried a pair of TeleVue 13mm Naglers.

Phil




Can you use a binoviewer with a Herschel Wedge for white light observing?

I can't do this with the Lunt wedge .......


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R Botero
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/02/09

Loc: Kent, England
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: MAURITS]
      #6315833 - 01/16/14 03:39 AM

Maurits
Yes, it can be done. Eddgie has a very recent thread in this forum. You may run out of back focus but with the right adapters and perhaps using a Barlow or GWK you can do it. I enjoy it very much.
Roberto


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: R Botero]
      #6315858 - 01/16/14 04:50 AM

Thanks Roberto.

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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: MAURITS]
      #6318247 - 01/17/14 10:16 AM

I am using the Baader wedge with my Mark Vs and it works great!

You need about the same in-travel as you would need for a 2" diagonal, and of course you can shorten this by about 25mm if you attach the binoviewer directly to the top using a Blue Fireball SCT to T2 adapter. (T-07).

But the view in white light with the wedge has been fantastic.

I am using the Solar Continuum filter. At first I did not like it, but the more I use it the more amazing it is.

The granulation shows up better with the SC filter than I have ever seen it, and because the granulation is so pronounced, facula stand out superbly.

Also, I think that lighy detail in the umbra of sunspots is sharper, but not quite as much. A bridge will appear a bit wider with the ND fiters stacked, but it will appear thinner and sharper with the SC. And the ends of the filimients I think are sharper in the SC.

I honestly don't know if this is becasue the contrast is better, or because you are screening out a lot of data (the SC is a very norrow band pass filter).

But the more I use the wedge with the SC filter, the more impressed I am. In fact, I have come to rather like the green color.. LOL

Of course there are other choices for wedge at a fraction of the cost, but I have to say that the Baader is a fisrt class peiec of gear.

I depbated getting Ha, but honestly there is so much amazing detail in white light that I can observe for an hour and not exaust it all...

I do not know how seeing affects Ha, btu it is my biggest obstacle. I have to observe for an hour to get maybe 2 or 3 minutes of high res views. Worth it though.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6318392 - 01/17/14 11:23 AM

Eddgie, If you like what you're seeing in white light, Ha will blow you away.

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Philip Levine
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/22/07

Loc: near Boston, MA
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6319464 - 01/17/14 09:09 PM

Quote:



I depbated getting Ha, but honestly there is so much amazing detail in white light that I can observe for an hour and not exaust it all...

I do not know how seeing affects Ha, btu it is my biggest obstacle. I have to observe for an hour to get maybe 2 or 3 minutes of high res views. Worth it though.




Eddgie, knowing your love of binoviewing, if you eventually go the h-alpha route, the blocking filter/diagonal might be problematic when adding a binoviewer. When I add a binoviewer to my setup, a TV Pronto with 60mm Coronado Solarmax II and blocking filter/diagonal (BF10), it puts a lot of stress on the BF10. The BF10 is somewhat small and the diagonal tube is made of delrin, I believe. I am not familiar with the Lunt blocking filter/diagonal, but I'm sure you will research the options.
Phil


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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: Eddgie]
      #6319903 - 01/18/14 05:44 AM

Thanks Eddgie, I try it with the Lunt wedge soon ...

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MAURITS
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/22/09

Loc: Belgium
Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: MAURITS]
      #6334534 - 01/25/14 11:02 AM

Eddgie, why do you use the "Baader Wedge" instead of the "Lunt Wedge"?

Is it personel choice or do you have an other reasen?

You wrote:

You need about the same in-travel as you would need for a 2" diagonal, and of course you can shorten this by about 25mm if you attach the binoviewer directly to the top using a Blue Fireball SCT to T2 adapter. (T-07).

Eddgie do you mean Baader part # T-06 instead (T-07)?

Is it possible to post a pic with the "Baader Wedge and the Mark V" combination so that I can see how it is stacked ....

I think I buy the Baader Wedge too... becauce the possibility to change the adapters!


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Eddgie
Postmaster
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: MAURITS]
      #6334667 - 01/25/14 12:01 PM Attachment (3 downloads)

Well, first it was on my wish list and I got it as a gift.

I like Baader equipment and have been very pleased with it in the past.

The Baader wedge is very easily adaptable to binoviwers and I would rather mount the Bino directly to the top of the unit than use a 2" eyepeice nose and put it into a regular 2" diagonal.

Even though my refractor is bino-ready and in-travel is not an issue, I prefer the much lower moment arm when the binoviewer is attached directly to the body.

With the Lunt, perhaps I could have removed the eyepeice holder and had some adapter made, but that was not necessary with the Baader.

The Baader comes with the really superb Solar Continuum filter. At first I did not like this filter, but after comparing to the ND, I have come to value the superb result that you get on granulation, which as it turns out adds far more to the experience than I realized. When the Granulation stands out more, the facula also stand out more.

I love the built in finder.

And while I don't use it, the Baader comes standard with a SCT thread compatible 2" Baader Clicklock Eyepiece holder.

Again, I don't use it for the wedge, but I suppose I could use it on my SCT if I wanted to in place of a standard visual back (though that scope is configured with a 10mm connector and T2 Prism and now is only used for binoviewing really...

So, lots of small reasons.

To be fair, for my own use, I wish there were a less expensive option that deleted the Clicklock eyepeice holder and took $100 of the price.

But I love the Baader and performance has been spectacular.

I am going to try Ha.. I have a PST on the way. But there is sooooo much detial with the wedge that I can't see myself loosing interest in white (green) light viewing. So for me, I think these will be complimentry scopes.

Now I just need to find a way to mount the PST side by side to the 110ED in a way that I can keep the eyepeice pointed up...

Edited by Eddgie (01/25/14 12:33 PM)


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Eddgie
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Reged: 02/01/06

Re: Binoviewer and solar white light - DO THIS!!!! new [Re: MAURITS]
      #6334698 - 01/25/14 12:18 PM Attachment (3 downloads)

Missed a part.

The T-07 is a Blue Fireball part that is the same as the Baader T2-27. It uses SCT on the outside, M 48 on the inside, and T2 above.

This is used to connect the binoviewer to the top of the Wedge.

It is not needed if using just a 2" eyepeice or a binviewer with a 2" nose.

To use it, the provided barrel is removed.

This harrel has SCT threads on the outside and on one end, M48.

The ND and Solar Continuum go on the threaded end and this is screwed into the top of the wedge, and the Clicklock is screwed to the top.

With the T-07, the ND and SC are mounted in the bottom, it is then screwed into place with the SCT threads, and the BV Quick COnnect ring is attached to the top.

Very short profile.

Only problem is that a normal ND filter will not work. As it turns out, the Baader ND filters are very slighlty smaller in diameter and clear the SCT threads while not all ND filters will do this.

So, works great with the Baader ND and SC, but not with an aftermarket ND (though some others may work).

Picture shows left to right shows the quick connect ring (not needed for Bino Vue or Maxbright) the T-07 (much the same as the Baader T2-27 except about half the price) with the ND 3 and SC.

You can see the SCT thread just below the securing ring. This threads into the top of the BV. The black ring at the top is threaded on the inside for SCT threads.



Edited by Eddgie (01/25/14 12:22 PM)


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