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Senpai
super member


Reged: 10/20/06

Loc: Russia, Chuvashian republic
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1610673 - 05/17/07 07:08 PM

This is my variant of the color scheme:

Clusters - RGB 0,100,50
Galaxies - RGB 100,0,25
Nebulas, Milky Way - RGB 0, 50 100
Constellation borders, names - RGB 60,90,60
Coordinat Grid - 40% black, or RGB 60,60,60
Stars, star labels - 100% Black
Variable stars, doubles labels and markers - RGB 100,50,0

The sample map (hypotetical) in printer colors


Or to switch the colors of clusters and variables:


Your opinion?
Who can test the schemes on the color prints and the red light? I hope, the schemes must be readable.


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Mark Smedley
member


Reged: 03/02/05

Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1611269 - 05/18/07 02:54 AM

Hi Jose

The charts are looking very good for a first iteration.

I must agree that the chart numbers must be printed on the outside of the chart. The other thing I have noticed is that the RA printout is too cluttered on the A section charts, I would only print them out every 30m at the very most.

I will have a go at converting the milky way outlines again now that I have more time on my hands as my rainy season has started again.

As for distributing the files the easiest is probably something like rapidshare.com, but you will have to limit the files to a maximum of 100mb at a time. The best thing is that it is free.

Mark


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Tony Flanders
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Senpai]
      #1611526 - 05/18/07 09:15 AM

Quote:

This is my variant of the color scheme:

Clusters - RGB 0,100,50
Galaxies - RGB 100,0,25
Nebulas, Milky Way - RGB 0, 50 100
Constellation borders, names - RGB 60,90,60
Coordinat Grid - 40% black, or RGB 60,60,60
Stars, star labels - 100% Black
Variable stars, doubles labels and markers - RGB 100,50,0





In my opinion, using any shade of red or orange for something that you want to be visible at night on a star chart is asking for trouble. That's especially true for labels. Even if it looks OK to you by red flashlight, it may not to somebody else. Remember that different printers print colors differently!

At Sky & Telescope, we use a red ellipse with a black outline for galaxies. By red flashlight, the red interior disappears completely -- which is fine, because the black outline still shows well.


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Senpai
super member


Reged: 10/20/06

Loc: Russia, Chuvashian republic
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #1611548 - 05/18/07 09:34 AM

Yes! I know!
That's why I use the combination of colors (not shades of red). Galaxies - RGB 100,0,25 - is R and B combination.
Yes, it would be better to use black outlines and color fills, but, as I think, it is imposible or hard to implement in 3Atals.
Newertheless, it is just a offer, and needs some test. May be, more blue in color
Galaxies - RGB 100,0,50? and also
Clusters RGB 0,70,50,
Constellations lines RGB 80,95,80,



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jr_
sage
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Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Senpai]
      #1611609 - 05/18/07 10:25 AM

Senpai,

I have placed a sample map with the colour set you have suggested. It is here:

Chart B12 - Color set suggested by Senpai

Yesterday evening I printed some sample charts in a color laser printer and they look really nice, although I cannot think in printing 660+90+25 maps in that way!!! Perhaps the set of 90+25, but not the 661 C-maps.

I agree with Tony Flanders on the use of colours. It could be good use them to fill the objects, but with a black outline. That was the way I would like the colour maps. Also, the colours look different depending on the printer.

How about surrounding the neighbouring charts labels with white arrows (circles or whatever),instead of moving them out? I think that lossing scale is a pity. You should consider that the overlapping area is generous: the unmber never cover uncovered areas in other charts. I'd rather place small empty areas to increase readibility: out of the numbers there is quite room to print details. This is my proposal:

neighbouring charts in black circles (smaller numbers)

(Mark) Nice to see you again!!! I am not sure, but yesterday I was replacing repeatedly the A set, making proofs changing the grid size and star size. Get the last one I placed: the final grid is 2║ size. In my opinion, 10 m is quite good for equatorial A-charts, and 5m for B-charts:

Full A-charts set, 1.1 release - B/W, 2║ grid, star size changed

The coverage is similar to the B set because the scale is 3 times larger, so it does not produce the impression of being so crowded. I'd like thin grids covering the maps because I use them to plot other objects (comets, asteroids, etc), and a comprehensive grid makes life easier.

I think that I will be able to generate C-files in two weeks. This weekend I have a compromise I cannot dedicate time, but from next Thursday I will start to deal with all the problems everybody has told me.


Edited by jr_ (05/18/07 01:21 PM)


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Senpai
super member


Reged: 10/20/06

Loc: Russia, Chuvashian republic
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1611947 - 05/18/07 01:41 PM

Hi, Jose! Thanks fot the sample map. I'l try to print and test it.
Some words about the neighbouring charts in black circles. May be, it would be better a gray background of the circles, or gray arrows-forms, or only contures of circels/arrows?
Yes, the map is more easily readable now.


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Senpai]
      #1616642 - 05/21/07 07:39 AM

I still had time to dedicate some hours this weekend to design the C-maps. I made some proofs changing the detail level and I think that the C-maps will be great; the stellar magnitude will reach 12.75 mag better than 13.00 (too crowded in the Milky Way fields)

Galaxies will be plotted up to magnitude 15.5 instead of 16.0. Galaxies will be taken only from PGC, but NGC names from NGC/IC project are prevalent. All known (I hope) planetary nebulae and star clusters will be included. Bright and dark nebulae however will requiere some cropping because of duplications and overcrowding at 8║ scale. I think that the C-maps scale is perfect for field work.

I still have a lot of work to do, rebuilding databases. The last corrections to NGC and IC are quite troublesome because of duplications with other catalogues. I have the Hynes' Star Clusters book that Starman1 suggested, but I have not the data in electronic format so I cannot include it. I will get the latest releases of catalogues before proceeding. I will be out for the next three days. All ideas are welcome.

Senpai, I will change the number background to gray so that they keep the visibility, making them less prominent. I reduced the size a bit with regard to the sample copy linked last friday and the result are now more suitable to me,but gray will be better. Now I am starting to think in the C-charts, that I want to print (at least a first release) before June 1st. I have asked for a new toner...

I used the A- and B-charts last weekend, this time in Milky Way fields (Vulpecula) and they work really well; you feel less lost with them.


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1720496 - 07/16/07 02:10 PM

It has taken more time than expected, but I have finally printed (currently, it is being bound) the full version of the "triatlas". It is a single-volume book with around 400 pages (two-sides), with the A, B and C sections altogether. The A and B charts (release 1.0) can be grabbed from the links indicated in this thread. I have extended the web space, and have found room to place most of the C charts (630 charts: there are only 31 left because I have no more web space). For getting them, this is the link:

http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/section_c/

I must tell that, although imperfect, it is an extraordinary help for deep sky observers. I have corrected some problems but not the label overlaps yet. To give an idea, this is the M31 field:



About the contents of C-maps:

- It consists of 661 charts 10.5║ x 8║ in PDF files
- 1║ = 2.5 cm (quite good scale; do not shrink the charts to print them!!)
- It shows stars up to 12.6 magnitude, quite good for the map scale, preserving a constant value in the whole atlas
- It shows galaxies up to 15.5 magnitude from PGC (unlabelled from mag. 15 to avoid cluttering), so there are around 37,000 galaxies plotted.
- It includes the revised version of NGC and IC (from the NGC/IC project), removing discarded objects
- ...1200 planetary nebulae
- ...1800 open clusters, and all globular clusters
- ...SH-2, RCW and other catalogues for bright nebulae (no LBN because of cluttering and repetitions): 900 objects
- ...LDN / Barnard for dark nebulae (1850 objects)
- ...Double stars whose main star is brighter than 11th magnitude (35,000 double stars)
- ...Variable stars whose maximum reaches the 12.5 magnitude (29,000 variable stars)
- ...There are some quasars (up to 16.5 mag) and galaxy clusters (all Hickson's and some Abell's)

I know it is not perfect. Sometimes one has to learn to reach compromise solutions, renouncing to changes that would imply stopping projects many months. I wanted my book before summer, and this is the best I could do up to the moment. I will consider other changes, but I do not know when, so this is what I can offer by now. I will not be able to solve other problems because I have job tasks to do in the next months. Thus, if somebody wants to grab the files, get them.

I hope that, in spite of the problems, many people will find this chart set useful. That was all my intention.

Pd. Wait a couple of days to download the whole set because I have enhanced some deep sky objects symbols

Edited by jr_ (07/16/07 02:15 PM)


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rvr
journeyman


Reged: 03/27/06

Loc: Canary Islands, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1730182 - 07/21/07 10:15 AM

JosÚ: Felicidades! I've downloaded all the charts and all I can say it's a fantastic tool for the observer!

My 2 cents are: (sub)marks for R.A. and Dec to make easier locating an object (i.e. a comet); and the name of the constellation inside its boundaries.


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Senpai
super member


Reged: 10/20/06

Loc: Russia, Chuvashian republic
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: rvr]
      #1730564 - 07/21/07 02:10 PM

Jose, excelent job!
Exactly to observation season!
Thank You so much!


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Senpai]
      #1733459 - 07/23/07 05:18 AM

Hi rvr and Senpai!!!

This weekend I generated new A, B and C sets, and I have replaced (as I promised) the old charts by the new ones.

The A-charts include now outline numbers giving the center of the corresponding B (large outlines) and C (small outlines) charts. This makes the navigation very comfortable. So now the A-charts are the indexes to the B and C charts (the B-charts also include the center of the contained C-charts). I have also corrected some problems in the C set, incorporating some missed labels, removing some repetitions, changing symbols and adding some quasars and radiosources. For me now it is complete and can work perfectly well (with all the unsolved problems still remaining). Fainter stars are now slightly more differenciated, keeping as dots the faintest ones.

I have removed HyperLEDA and GSC from my web, so I have found space to store everything. The 661 charts of the C section are available to download: enjoy them with my best will!!!

C-SET (MAIN SET): 22 PDF files with 661 charts up to 12.6 mag

The links for the B-set (INTERMEDIATE SET), reaching 11 mag stars:

B -SET: charts 1 to 30

B -SET: charts 31 to 60

B -SET: charts 61 to 90

...and the links for the A-set (INDEX SET):

A-SET: 25 charts to 9 mag and main deep sky objects, with pointers to B- and C-maps

I will add constellation names near the boundaries in the next revision and tic marks in the axes to increase reading accuracy. I apologize for the problems still remaining: the work to do is so immense that I am overwhelmed. I hope that this atlas will be of good help, at least to some people.

Edited by jr_ (07/23/07 08:11 AM)


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Senpai
super member


Reged: 10/20/06

Loc: Russia, Chuvashian republic
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1733531 - 07/23/07 07:30 AM

Hi! Thanks, Jose!
Very good news!


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PEterW
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/02/06

Loc: SW London, UK
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Senpai]
      #1733671 - 07/23/07 09:31 AM

Could you also put together a brief extra document that gives a key to symbols, a brief intruction to the atlas, a scale for the different sections and the magnitude scale as well. Otherwise I think you have excelled yourself, I hope that we can all publicise its existance to make sure that amateurs get the most from it.

Thanks

PEterW


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macpurity
super member


Reged: 10/24/04

Loc: Quad Cities, Iowa, USA
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1733820 - 07/23/07 11:19 AM

After having downloaded everything just yesterday, now I'm doing it again! Not complaining, very happy to have such a great resource!

For fun, based on the earlier version of JosÚ's atlas, I made a side-by-side comparison of what is mapped in Uranometria (2nd ed.), The Millennium Atlas, and JosÚ's PDF atlas. I chose the region around Sheliak (beta Lyrae). It is amazing the detail that JosÚ's atlas brings out.

Click here to see the comparison.

Thanks JosÚ - its a terrific job!

MacP


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: macpurity]
      #1733872 - 07/23/07 11:45 AM

Peter,

Yes, I am preparing a one-chart key map for each series with the legend and the respective chart arrangement. I think that I could link them next week, likely on Monday. I am also preparing links from my website and a more formal presentation of this project. I am not satisfied with some problems, particularly overlaps and some object repeatitions (general and specific catalogues), but this is left to be solved in a future new release. Now is time to enjoy the maps... summer time...


macpurity,

Very nice and clear comparison. During the design of the TriAtlas, I had always in my mind the Millennium charts. I like the MSA, but have always found it with few deep sky objects for the scale and stars, and of course too bulky. I have never dare to bring mine to the field (not only by the weight, but also to avoid damaging it). The good of PDF maps is that we can replace charts easily, and there is no problem in mark them or print apart the ones we need. Now I am leaving to get my bound copy: one volume (only one book) with the three sections altogether. I hope that it be useful to everybody!!!


(Pd) I have just linked the files in a more organised way in a page within my website, and also in the Deep Sky Tools webpage

Edited by jr_ (07/25/07 04:24 AM)


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Rumba
member


Reged: 09/08/04

Loc: Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1740793 - 07/26/07 04:11 PM

JR,

You've done another fine and useful job and I'm not sure if everybody in these forums is aware of all the amazing things that you're doing for amateur astronomy. Thank you!


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: Rumba]
      #1741823 - 07/27/07 05:48 AM

Rumba,

Thanks a lot for your words. In the CN forums there are people with extremely different ideas, interests and tastes; so there will always be somebody who will take profit of it. I only intend to contribute to enjoy astronomy, as everybody here, and I am happy if I feel to be of some help.

Edited by jr_ (07/27/07 05:49 AM)


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1821319 - 09/05/07 05:03 AM Attachment (254 downloads)

Hi everybody,

To complete the information, here there is a couple of pictures showing how I have prepared the two printed copies I am using. First, the three sections (A, B and C maps) in a single volume book. It has around 400 pages and fits perfectly in my accessory box:

Edited by jr_ (09/05/07 05:15 AM)


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jr_
sage
*****

Reged: 07/28/03

Loc: Valencia, Spain
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1821327 - 09/05/07 05:14 AM Attachment (201 downloads)

...and this is the A and B sections only ("field atlas"), with the pages protected in a plastic folder. I was using the atlas during all the summer with three diferent telescopes and the performance was really extraordinary. I could find very threshold objects more easily than ever before. I generally use the "field atlas" because it is dew protected, flexible and very comfortable to use, and the C section when I am looking hard objects and need more accuracy to spot them, or objects not printed in B maps because they did not fullfill the plotting conditions (less known open clusters, very small planetary nebulae or M31 globular clusters). With these new charts, I have enjoyed some of the best deep sky nights that I remember in all my life (in spite of the problems still remaining). By the way, I have problems preparing the indexes (it is hard to edit the files owing to their size), but I hope linking them soon.

Edited by jr_ (09/05/07 05:22 AM)


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Philip Levine
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/22/07

Loc: near Boston, MA
Re: 3Atlas (PDF) project:: 9, 11 and 13 mag sky at new [Re: jr_]
      #1825136 - 09/06/07 10:27 PM

Jose,
Thanks for your wonderful charts, and all your hard work. I have enjoyed your CNebulaX program, and now you have made available your very detailed charts in PDF format.
A wonderful contribution to the astronomy community.
Phil


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