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Mike Lynch
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Reged: 04/07/06

Pocket Sky Atlas object list
      #5647702 - 01/28/13 09:52 AM

Many of us have sung the praises of the Pocket Sky Atlas, but I'm wondering if anyone has created a list of the objects on its maps with data such as magnitude and size.

It would be a handy reference for people to have in the field to quickly determine if their particular scope or binocular is likely to detect an object on a page in the P.S.A.

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA


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JimK
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5649233 - 01/28/13 08:50 PM

I answered a very TINY part of your request in this previous CN Post (click here). It discussed only the 55 carbon stars that are in the PSA (which should be visible in telescopes of at least 80mm).

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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5649255 - 01/28/13 09:00 PM

Mike...

SkyTools 3, the observation planning software, lists the magnitude and size and much more information essential to object selection. In fact, for every object in the SkyTools 3 database, a chart reference is given to the Pocket Sky Atlas, as well as the other popular print atlases. Therefore, SkyTools 3 will tell you the mag, size, surface brightness, distance; as well as the optimum time, location, and eyepiece to use for an object. And SkyTools 3 also gives you the chart number where the object is located in your favorite field paper atlas.

So...., better start singing the praises of SkyTools 3.


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Mike Lynch
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5649305 - 01/28/13 09:34 PM

Bob,

'Course, I have SkyMap Pro, which does NOT include the P.S.A. objects as a target list!

Guess I could take one of my other downloaded object-list files out with me when using the P.S.A. It does NOT look like deriving an object list by magnitude, type, and / or size will derive a list that matches P.S.A., because of the process the authors used to chose the plotted objects, according to the introduction!

None of this matters, of course, while we experience "The Great Central Kentucky Nebula" overhead! (a.k.a endless cloud cover on moonless nights!)

Thanks,

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5649479 - 01/28/13 11:24 PM

Mike...

Yup, the Kentucky Nebula is bad. But at least it is warming up for a few days.


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5649533 - 01/28/13 11:57 PM

Mike...

I may have mis-spoke. SkyTools 3 will generate a list of deep sky objects found in Pocket Sky Atlas. However, you will have to enter each item separately (roughly 15 seconds of time per object), or enter some kind of global search parameters such as "galaxies > or < (some parameter, such as magnitude, surface brightness, type of object, constellation, size, or catalog)". And then go and delete the objects not in PSA (about 5 sec per deleted object). Unfortunately, SkyTools 3 does not recognize the object lists in the back of Pocket Sky Atlas as a catalog. If it did then the list creation would go quicker.

Since the Pocket Sky Atlas and Sky Atlas 2000.0 are similar, you could use the Sky Atlas Companion, which gives a complete list of the 2700 deep sky objects on the SkyAtlas 2000 atlas. SAC includes the following for each entry.

    Object type
    Constellation
    RA & dec coordinates
    Angular size
    Chart number
    Magnitude
    Position angle (in case of galaxy)
    Descriptive paragraph

The objects are listed alphabetically in the main portion of the SAC, and by chart number (without descriptive paragraph) in the back matter of SAC. You could cross reference the object lists in the back of PSA with the object lists in SAC, by making some kind of mark on the SAC list as to whether the object is located in PSA.

Of course, as you said, you could do the same with any deep sky observing guide that provides the magnitude and size information in the entry.

Or purchase a copy of The Cambridge Atlas of Herschel Objects, which includes magnitude and size in the 2500-object list in the back matter of the atlas. In the 2500-object list in the back, objects are generally listed sequentially by NGC number. Here are the fields of the entries in the 2500-object list.

    Herschel designation
    NGC/M (list is arranged sequential by this column)
    Constellation
    RA (2000.0)
    DEC
    Type
    Mag
    Size
    Common Name / Notes
    Map No.

And since the scale and page size is larger with CAHO (but not as large as SA2000), you may find that you will prefer it over the PSA after a few nights out in the field.

Another option I have pursued is to remove the charts from the SkyAtlas 2000 and use them individually with the Sky Atlas Companion. This is a good option since one of the lists in the back of SAC is an object list by SA2000 chart number.

*****

Bob's Ruminations
Lots of options. PSA is the most convenient atlas around. However, a detailed object list in the back matter of PSA would have been such a good step forward--convenience and observing detail in one easy to hold package. I am sure there are observers who can fly with the PSA after learning what objects to view and where to look for them. But PSA doesn't help that much for those who are wanting to learn more and go to the next step. At some point, I think serious observers leave PSA on the shelf and reach for something more.


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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5649602 - 01/29/13 01:21 AM

Quote:

Mike...

Yup, the Kentucky Nebula is bad. But at least it is warming up for a few days.





Then there's that Kentucky Jelly, which tastes really nasty on toast...


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5649611 - 01/29/13 01:40 AM

Yup, it is bad this time of year. But people get their health back and everything starts improving around St. Patrick's Day. And by mid April the Bluegrass Region is some of the prettiest rolling country you will ever see.

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Rick Woods
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5650402 - 01/29/13 02:02 PM

Quote:

Yup, it is bad this time of year. But people get their health back and everything starts improving around St. Patrick's Day. And by mid April the Bluegrass Region is some of the prettiest rolling country you will ever see.




I'd love to see that sometime.
My only stay in Kentucky was in Lovable Ol' Looaville in the dead of summer - 110 degrees and 110% humidity.
(Funny how those things work; my only stay in Alaska was in Fairbanks in the winter. I'm doing something wrong, somewhere...)


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Carl Kolchak
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Reged: 08/02/06

Loc: Northeast, Florida
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5650525 - 01/29/13 03:06 PM

Mike asked:

Quote:

It would be a handy reference for people to have in the field to quickly determine if their particular scope or binocular is likely to detect an object on a page in the P.S.A.




Hi Mike,

AstroPlanner has a plan for 1560 non-stellar objects in PSA. Here is a list of the items AP lists:

Object Type Count
Asterism 3
BrNeb 13
D Neb 16
Dbl 1
DkNeb 114
E Neb 46
Galaxy 705
Globular 107
Globule 1
HIIRgn 5
IrrGal 1
IRSrc 1
Neb 108
Open 339
P Neb 91
Quasar 1
R Neb 30
Radio 2
S Gal 1
SNR 1
SpecBin 1
Star 33
Star Cld 1
Var Star 1

peace & clear skies


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Mike Lynch
sage
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Reged: 04/07/06

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Carl Kolchak]
      #5653786 - 01/31/13 08:26 AM

Richard,

Your comment made me wonder (Since I don't have AstroPlanner) whether SkyMap Pro might help me with this. And, sure enough, it DOES!

I looked in my copy of P.S.A. for the approximate magnitudes of planetary nebulae and galaxies plotted; then I entered those parameters into the search function of SkyMap Pro. When I did the search function and created a sky-wide list of those two types of objects, I came up with a number of objects in each category that was just a bit higher than the number plotted in P.S.A.

I'll have to do a quick spot-check of several constellations to compare the lists between the two, but now I think I should be able to print out lists very similar to the objects plotted in P.S.A. for the purpose I stated in my original post!

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5654138 - 01/31/13 11:26 AM



Three cheers for Mike. Another technology transfer problem solved.


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Mike Lynch
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Reged: 04/07/06

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5654185 - 01/31/13 11:50 AM

Heh-heh!!

I think Bob knows my job TITLE is a kinda nebulous "technology transfer officer," whatever THAT means!

But I also need to check to make sure the list of, say, planetary nebulae that SkyMap Pro derived is essentially the same list as Pocket Sky Atlas shows.

Heck, the catalogue in the software could be different...though I chose a limiting magnitude similar to the one used in the P.S.A.

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA


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Carl Kolchak
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Reged: 08/02/06

Loc: Northeast, Florida
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5654595 - 01/31/13 04:00 PM

Hi Mike,

Later tonight I'll post the list AP has as a txt file, something I think anyone can import into nay application they use.

peace & clear skies


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jrbarnett
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5654825 - 01/31/13 06:13 PM

It would seem that S&T is missing out on a companion field guide opportunity. Sky Atlas 2000 has a companion guide. Pocket Sky Atlas should too.

Regards,

Jim


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Tony Flanders
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Reged: 05/18/06

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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5654968 - 01/31/13 08:02 PM

Quote:

It would seem that S&T is missing out on a companion field guide opportunity. Sky Atlas 2000 has a companion guide. Pocket Sky Atlas should too.




It has been discussed. No budget for it at the moment, but it certainly might happen some day.


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Carl Kolchak
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Reged: 08/02/06

Loc: Northeast, Florida
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5655251 - 01/31/13 10:49 PM Attachment (120 downloads)

Quote:

into nay application




Should be any instead of nay.

Here is the AP plan in plain text originally created by Lionel Maraval.

peace & clear skies


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Carl Kolchak]
      #5655470 - 02/01/13 01:47 AM

Richard...

The AstroPlanner plain text file you attached to your last post is a great help--and goes a long way toward filling the void for some kind of observing guide for the Pocket Sky Atlas.

Can you please give us the column heading for the various data fields.

Furthermore, any data extraction parameters that were used to generate the list in AstroPlanner would also be helpful.

Thank you.


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5655483 - 02/01/13 01:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It would seem that S&T is missing out on a companion field guide opportunity. Sky Atlas 2000 has a companion guide. Pocket Sky Atlas should too.




It has been discussed. No budget for it at the moment, but it certainly might happen some day.




Tony...

(1) Can you give us a quick comparison between the number of nonstellar objects appearing on the SkyAtlas 2000.0 versus the number appearing on the Pocket Sky Atlas?

(2) And a quick number of the nonstellar objects appearing on the Pocket Sky Atlas that do not appear on the SkyAtlas 2000.0?

Thank you.

*****

P.S.: And yes, I definitely would buy any observing guide published for the Pocket Sky Atlas.

*****

P.P.S.: Maybe you can include some kind of comparison of the various S&T sky atlases on your most excellent SkyWeek broadcasts.


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Carl Kolchak
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Reged: 08/02/06

Loc: Northeast, Florida
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5656473 - 02/01/13 02:25 PM Attachment (86 downloads)

Bob asked:

Quote:


Can you please give us the column heading for the various data fields.

Furthermore, any data extraction parameters that were used to generate the list in AstroPlanner would also be helpful.




Hi Bob,

The first attached file is APs plain text export and I'm not sure what perimeters are included or excluded. Some objects have data for Alt and Az others do not.

The attached file on this post is a comma delimited file with these parameters:

ID Name Type Const RA DEC Notes

The above parameters were used to export this file. There are others if you want me to try something else feel free to ask.

peace & clear skies,


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Carl Kolchak]
      #5657081 - 02/01/13 08:21 PM

Richard...

Thank you very much for the second version of the object list.

I am interested in what Tony Flanders has to say about how many objects are in the Pocket Sky Atlas, that are not in SkyAtlas 2000.0. Is this a large group? Or something much smaller, say 50 or so objects not found in SkyAtlas 2000.0?

Richard, thank you again for your assistance.


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Mike Lynch
sage
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Reged: 04/07/06

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Carl Kolchak]
      #5657310 - 02/01/13 10:45 PM

Richard,

Thank you! I worked with the original text file you provided to create a target list in SkyMap Pro. It recognized all but about 49 of the objects, and some others were in a format that SkyMap Pro didn't recognize. (i.e., a name with/without a hyphen or a space in it.)

But the bottom line was that I was able to create a target list and observing report for the vast majority of the objects in the text list. It still needs some tweaking on a few objects, but it was a great help!

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #5657538 - 02/02/13 03:03 AM

Let us all hope that S&T decides to publish some kind of observer's guide for The Pocket Sky Atlas--with descriptive paragraphs for each object--similar to the current 2nd edition of their Sky Atlas Companion. Something of the same dimensions as the PSA would make a nice companion, and perfect for a two volume publication in a slip case similar to what they did for the Millennial Star Atlas paperback edition.

I always enjoy dreaming of what publishers should do with their invested capital. HA!


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Tony Flanders
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: BobinKy]
      #5657642 - 02/02/13 07:07 AM

Quote:

I am interested in what Tony Flanders has to say about how many objects are in the Pocket Sky Atlas, that are not in SkyAtlas 2000.0. Is this a large group? Or something much smaller, say 50 or so objects not found in SkyAtlas 2000.0?




I could in theory answer that question precisely, but at the moment I'm too lazy to do the necessary computer hacking.

But since I routinely use both databases to produce the charts that run in Sky & Telescope, I can offer a seat-of-the-pants answer. To a fair approximation, the nonstellar objects in the PSA are a subset of the ones in SA2K. The most obvious exception is that the PSA includes all of the Herschel 400. And I occasionally stumble on other exceptions as well.

Therefore, the Sky Atlas Companion will work quite well for the PSA as well.

In terms of labeling, the PSA labels many more double stars by name, as well as labeling carbon stars with a (c). Also, SA2K labels all Bayer stars with their Flamsteed numbers as well, whereas PSA uses either Bayer or Flamsteed, but never both.

The exact Bayer designations are a bit different in the two. It's a little-advertised fact that both the Bayer and Flamsteed designations are "ragged;" there are many cases where the designations are controversial and/or not universally used. I have been meaning to ask Roger how he derived the PSA designations ...


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BobinKy
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5658119 - 02/02/13 01:06 PM

Tony...

Thank you for the distinction between the nonstellar objects in the Sky Atlas 2000.00 and the Pocket Sky Atlas. I really need to use my PSA more frequently--it is the most convenient atlas around.

And thanks for confirming the importance of the Sky Atlas Companion for both atlases. Many of us enjoy the SAC a great deal due the ease of access of information, as well as the useful paragraph descriptions.


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5658924 - 02/02/13 09:01 PM

Quote:

It would seem that S&T is missing out on a companion field guide opportunity. Sky Atlas 2000 has a companion guide. Pocket Sky Atlas should too.

Regards,

Jim



Yes, I agree a companion guide would be perfect.
I love the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas.
I have bought copies of it for friends as well. Makes a great gift.
I use it for all of my local observing, as there are 1500 DSO, and to be honest I'd be lucky to see 1/4 of them from our regular local observing site.
I only pull out the big atlases when I'm headed out of town to very dark skies.
But the PSA is limited as there is no information about the objects. A companion guide would be high on my list.

Steve


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rockethead26
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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: stevew]
      #5658947 - 02/02/13 09:23 PM

Quote:


Yes, I agree a companion guide would be perfect.

Steve




I agree as well. The companion would be a good seller, I think.


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pjglad
sage


Reged: 01/29/11

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: rockethead26]
      #5658955 - 02/02/13 09:28 PM

Some time ago on CN I read that there was an effort or proposal to publish the PSA in a full size edition. Is that effort still alive?

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JimK
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Reged: 09/18/05

Loc: Albuquerque, NM USA
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: stevew]
      #5659177 - 02/03/13 12:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It would seem that S&T is missing out on a companion field guide opportunity. Sky Atlas 2000 has a companion guide. Pocket Sky Atlas should too.

Regards,

Jim



Yes, I agree a companion guide would be perfect.
I love the S&T Pocket Sky Atlas.
I have bought copies of it for friends as well. Makes a great gift.
I use it for all of my local observing, as there are 1500 DSO, and to be honest I'd be lucky to see 1/4 of them from our regular local observing site.
I only pull out the big atlases when I'm headed out of town to very dark skies.
But the PSA is limited as there is no information about the objects. A companion guide would be high on my list.

Steve


I hadn't thought of this before in this way, but the book "Objects in the Heavens" (OITH) has been, effectively, a companion book to the Pocket Sky Atlas (PSA) for me. I commented on OITH a while back (4th ed) in a CN thread (click here).

OITH is about the same size as the PSA, has much descriptive information throughout (including RA/Dec, size, magnitude, and bino/scope use symbols), with about a line for each deep sky object listed and plotted (by constellation). As I mentioned in the old post, the OITH charts are not good enough for me so I need the PSA to find the stuff listed in the OITH.

So a companion guide to the PSA already exists, at least for me -- its name is OITH and I have marked my copy extensively with notes, arrows, etc. Why, just last night I grabbed ONLY those two books and was hunting DSOs in Mon, CMa, and Pup with great success (16 objects!) using my old, orange-tube C-8 sct. Give it a look and you may like it. It is not that expensive (~$30 from the author's website -- birrendesign.com) and it is spiral-bound for easy field use.


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Moondoggy
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Reged: 03/17/08

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Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: JimK]
      #5659320 - 02/03/13 03:12 AM

Jim after reading your comments and checking the thread and websites,I will order some of these "OITH" for the 3 or 4 PSA I already have. I own many great Atlases from S & T and enjoy them,but as I am getting older and getting tired of hauling loads of stuff with my weak bad back, I can not wait on S&T to make Business desitions. I do truly understand that a business has to take risk ,and I hope in the future they "S&T make a suppliment for the PSA.

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BobinKy
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Reged: 04/27/07

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Moondoggy]
      #5660029 - 02/03/13 01:48 PM

Jim...

I never made the connection before, but you are correct that OITH makes a nice companion to the PSA. Thank you for the post.


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: JimK]
      #5660553 - 02/03/13 06:39 PM

Quote:

I hadn't thought of this before in this way, but the book "Objects in the Heavens" (OITH) has been, effectively, a companion book to the Pocket Sky Atlas (PSA) for me. I commented on OITH a while back (4th ed) in a CN thread (click here).

OITH is about the same size as the PSA, has much descriptive information throughout (including RA/Dec, size, magnitude, and bino/scope use symbols), with about a line for each deep sky object listed and plotted (by constellation). As I mentioned in the old post, the OITH charts are not good enough for me so I need the PSA to find the stuff listed in the OITH.

So a companion guide to the PSA already exists, at least for me -- its name is OITH and I have marked my copy extensively with notes, arrows, etc. Why, just last night I grabbed ONLY those two books and was hunting DSOs in Mon, CMa, and Pup with great success (16 objects!) using my old, orange-tube C-8 sct. Give it a look and you may like it. It is not that expensive (~$30 from the author's website -- birrendesign.com) and it is spiral-bound for easy field use.



Wow, this looks great.
Thanks for the link.

Steve


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Mike Lynch
sage
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Reged: 04/07/06

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: stevew]
      #6139577 - 10/15/13 06:27 PM Attachment (31 downloads)

All,

I had mentioned earlier that I had created an observing list in SkyMap Pro Version 9 from the list of objects we were provided. (Thanks again, Richard!)

Well, I eventually created a Word document, with the objects arranged in tables by constellation (alphabetical). As I mentioned in one of my last posts, this document, which is attached, likely misses a few of the objects in the Pocket Sky Atlas. But I really think the vast majority of them are there.

I talked to Tony Flanders, who tells me that by providing the attached document to you, I am not violating any copyright of Sky & Telescope.

Take a look... It's a simple document with object name, type, brightness, and size.

If you find objects from PSA that are missing, please let me know.

I think this will be a handy aid to ovserving with PSA!

Edit: Let me know if I need to upload a different version...such as a rich-text format one!

Edited by Mike Lynch (10/15/13 06:29 PM)


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Pocket Sky Atlas object list new [Re: Mike Lynch]
      #6141930 - 10/16/13 10:11 PM

Quote:

Many of us have sung the praises of the Pocket Sky Atlas, but I'm wondering if anyone has created a list of the objects on its maps with data such as magnitude and size.

It would be a handy reference for people to have in the field to quickly determine if their particular scope or binocular is likely to detect an object on a page in the P.S.A.

Mike Lynch
Frankfort KY USA




Sky Atlas 2000 has a complete list of objects. They seem similar, and I would almost gurantee every object in the pocket atlas is in the sky atlas 2000 reference guide.


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