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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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MtnGoat
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4811440 - 09/16/11 05:44 PM

Quote:

Anyone else see the resemblance

Regards,

skybsd




Ye$, I $ure do!


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #4811510 - 09/16/11 06:22 PM

Quote:

I dunno - a 40% CO is pretty extreme. This would not make a great visual planetary scope. You'd lose a bit more fine detail; but I guess what you DO get to see is nice and sharp?




Hey Rick....looking at the specs, it looks like Meade is aiming this new OTA directly at imagers especially when teamed up with the mount and all of its goodies. I'm guessing that once the mount gets into full production, you might see a trimmed down model without all of the guiding stuff and match it up with the f10 ACF tubes for a nice visual package.

David

Edited by David Pavlich (09/16/11 06:23 PM)


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Tiny
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/02/08

Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #4811663 - 09/16/11 08:18 PM

Quote:

I dunno - a 40% CO is pretty extreme. This would not make a great visual planetary scope. You'd lose a bit more fine detail; but I guess what you DO get to see is nice and sharp?




In fairness we're talking about 4-6% difference here compared to celestron scopes. The smaller meade scopes of the LX200 line actually already had a larger than average obstruction, something like 36-37% so there you're talking about a couple of percent. Will the visual observer see the difference of a few % in central obstruction? I sincerely doubt it. As stated the scope is geared primarily toward imagers. If the scopes really have no image shift and a perfectly rigid mirror they'll be a big hit with both F8 and F5 focal ratios available.

If there is anything to be negative of with the new OTAs its the apparent lack of an attempt to improve cooling. At the very least they could of installed vents.

The other thing i noticed is there are no improvements to the handles on the OTA. Lifting that 14" nearly 60lb tube into place will be a 2 person job for sure.


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tim53
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Tiny]
      #4811694 - 09/16/11 08:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I dunno - a 40% CO is pretty extreme. This would not make a great visual planetary scope. You'd lose a bit more fine detail; but I guess what you DO get to see is nice and sharp?




In fairness we're talking about 4-6% difference here compared to celestron scopes. The smaller meade scopes of the LX200 line actually already had a larger than average obstruction, something like 36-37% so there you're talking about a couple of percent. Will the visual observer see the difference of a few % in central obstruction? I sincerely doubt it. As stated the scope is geared primarily toward imagers. If the scopes really have no image shift and a perfectly rigid mirror they'll be a big hit with both F8 and F5 focal ratios available.




While there isn't much difference in obstruction between various configurations of SCTs, the obstruction of, say, an f/6 Newtonian can be around 20%, or about half that of the SCTs. And f/6 is nicely poised between f/5 and f/8 for wide field imaging, and an f/6 Newt is pretty decent for planetary as well.


Quote:


The other thing i noticed is there are no improvements to the handles on the OTA. Lifting that 14" nearly 60lb tube into place will be a 2 person job for sure.




At least a GEM mounted SCT is more transportable than a fork mounted SCT, except in the 8" sizes. I find that a 10" fork-mounted SCT is no more transportable than a 10" Newt on a GEM. In fact, if mounted on a wedge, it's less transportable.

And while a GEM mounted SCT is easier to set up than a fork-mounted one, they still require a higher saddle than a Newt does, so the bigger ones are more scary to set up due to their weight.

-Tim.


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Hilmi
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: tim53]
      #4812235 - 09/17/11 07:33 AM

I might get attacked for saying this, but purely on looks, it looks better than the Mach 1. I like the shiny metal and blue bits. The combination is rather striking and has a nice modern sporty feel to it. (wears helmet and other protective gear to ward of AP fans)

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skybsd
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Hilmi]
      #4812256 - 09/17/11 07:57 AM

Quote:

I might get attacked for saying this, but purely on looks, it looks better than the Mach 1. I like the shiny metal and blue bits. The combination is rather striking and has a nice modern sporty feel to it. (wears helmet and other protective gear to ward of AP fans)




Heeheeheee!!!!!!!!!!!!

I understand the folks at AP have already noted this mount, too..,

Like I said, the light bulb went off in my head, so its now quite clear to me why the looks of the LX800 impressed me.

Mind you, with just a 90lb (advertised) payload.., the price ain't too bad lookin' either

Subject to Real© reviews, I'd be keen to ship one in..,

Regards,

skybsd


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Jared
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Hilmi]
      #4812464 - 09/17/11 10:28 AM

Heresy! Speaking as a Mach1 owner, I believe you should be drawn and quartered for bearing false witness against the divine word of the Rolando!

Just kidding, of course. It looks like a well thought out scope and mount, and I hope it does well in the market. If the reliability is there, and if the payload is really 90 pounds for astrophotography, it will represent a good value. The only catch is that a 6,000 USD price, even if it represents a good value, is not going to appeal to the masses, so it won't do much to help turn Meade around. Still, this is the first scope/mount combo they have produced since the RCX400 line that has appealed to me personally.

The only part I am not certain about is the inclusion of a standard guide scope and camera. At this price level, you aren't dealing with beginning imagers, and many will likely prefer to use off axis guiders, more sensitive or lower noise guide cameras, etc. They might not like the idea of paying for equipment they don't need or want. Plus, if the mount is well made, the high precision GoTo offered by the guide scope/camera shouldn't really be necessary. Perhaps I'm just being a curmudgeon on this one, though. And certainly, an automated routine for drift alignment, especially for those in the southern hemisphere, would be nice.


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Bachus
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4812483 - 09/17/11 10:38 AM

I'm glad to see Meade finally using their head and getting back with new and heavier EQ mounts. I'm just surprised they didn't follow up sooner to the LXD-650. Why they didn't who knows.

That said I think they really thought the price range w/features out carefully. Mind you at $6000 it might seem a lot but the extra "Starlock" feature makes up for it. Of course we'll have to wait & see on results and reviews. But two cameras plus 80mm refractor with built-in guiding alone is another $600+.

The only other mount in that range of weight capacity and price is the Losmandy HGM Titan (100# rated) but it's at $7300. The next down is the Losmandy G-11 rated at 60# at $3700. The highly touted AP Mach1 is at 45# but nearly $6400.


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tim53
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Bachus]
      #4812496 - 09/17/11 10:48 AM

Well, the similarity to the AP mount is certainly no coincidence. I wonder: Does AP make the Mach 1 in the US, or is it a rebadged import?

-Tim.


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Jared
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Bachus]
      #4812509 - 09/17/11 10:52 AM

I'll be interested to see what the true capacity IS. Traditionally, most manufacturers rate their mounts for visual use not photographic. However, this mount is clearly intended for photographers so perhaps not in this case. For example, I would say the Mach 1 has a very similar true capacity to the G11 despite the lower rating. On a recent trip to the Mojave desert, I managed reasonably sharp images of NGC 3718 at 2,000mm focal length with a 40 pound imaging payload with winds gusting to 25 knots. Clearly, the 45 pound rating on the Mach 1 is on the conservative side. Tak ratings are also quite conservative. Most other manufacturers? Not so much. Can't wait to read about real world experiences with this mount and the 14" OTA. If it can really support (and accurately guide) such a monster over a ten or fifteen minute subexposure on a mildly breezy evening, I'll be impressed.

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Jared
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: tim53]
      #4812514 - 09/17/11 10:55 AM

The Mach 1 is made in the U.S. By Astro-Physics, not rebadged. If the new Meade mount resembles it, it is either because the Meade engineers drew inspiration from the Mach 1 or because the requirements drove the engineers to a similar result.

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tim53
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Jared]
      #4812530 - 09/17/11 11:02 AM

Cool. If Meade is buying the AP mount then great. If it's some clone, not so much.

-tim.


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Jared
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: tim53]
      #4812562 - 09/17/11 11:17 AM

I'm sure they aren't buying the AP mount. It's similar, but not THAT similar. Inspired by the Mach1, maybe. No more than that. Plus good as the Mach1 is, it certainly doesn't have a 90 pound payload capacity.

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jmiele
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: Jared]
      #4812654 - 09/17/11 12:01 PM

I tend to agree with your statement Jared - "or because the requirements drove the engineers to a similar result"

The GEM design isn't rocket science. It's strength is it's simplicity. And drawing conclusions about design copying based on a CGI image is absurd. Not directed at anyone - just saying"....

I'm as excited as the next person, however have many questions. Like for one - how are they ensuring the rigidity between the two scopes? Need more close up pictures!!


Joe


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neotesla
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: jmiele]
      #4812658 - 09/17/11 12:03 PM

Did any one see the specs on the LX80 as well?

Carries a total payload of up to 40 pounds in EQ/Alt-Az modes and 75 pounds in dual OTA modes... for $800.


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skybsd
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: jmiele]
      #4812733 - 09/17/11 12:57 PM

Quote:

I tend to agree with your statement Jared - "or because the requirements drove the engineers to a similar result"

The GEM design isn't rocket science. It's strength is it's simplicity. And drawing conclusions about design copying based on a CGI image is absurd. Not directed at anyone - just saying"....

I'm as excited as the next person, however have many questions. Like for one - how are they ensuring the rigidity between the two scopes? Need more close up pictures!!


Joe




More "pictures"???

I'm waiting for the FIRST photo - the ones provided so far are CGI, buddy.

Regards,

skybsd


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skybsd
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4812751 - 09/17/11 01:05 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I tend to agree with your statement Jared - "or because the requirements drove the engineers to a similar result"

The GEM design isn't rocket science. It's strength is it's simplicity. And drawing conclusions about design copying based on a CGI image is absurd. Not directed at anyone - just saying"....

I'm as excited as the next person, however have many questions. Like for one - how are they ensuring the rigidity between the two scopes? Need more close up pictures!!


Joe




More "pictures"???

I'm waiting for the FIRST photo - the ones provided so far are CGI, buddy.

Regards,

skybsd




If anyone's still not convinced of where the idea for this mount came from, have a look at this image used by one vendor's preordering system.

Pay attention to the ALT locking mechanism - now where have you seen that before



Regards,

skybsd


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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4812759 - 09/17/11 01:11 PM

Quote:

Pay attention to the ALT locking mechanism - now where have you seen that before



Regards,

skybsd




Looks just like the LXD650/750 of 15 years ago. Or were those Mach1 clones also?


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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: Meade's new LX800... new [Re: skybsd]
      #4812765 - 09/17/11 01:13 PM

You Mach 1 guys might be able to speak to my speculation on the design characteristics. Perhaps Meade is looking at AP mount's ability to track well beyond the meridian...at least the 900/1200/3600. To me, that would be a good reason to emulate the AP design.

David


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skybsd
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Re: Meade's new LX800... [Re: jrcrilly]
      #4812782 - 09/17/11 01:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Pay attention to the ALT locking mechanism - now where have you seen that before



Regards,

skybsd




Looks just like the LXD650/750 of 15 years ago. Or were those Mach1 clones also?




Well, John - I'm sure the mount of yesteryear also did not have: -

the same DEC and AR housing as the Mach-1
the same through-the-mount cabling run as the Mach-1
the same shaped DEC and RA motor housing
etc..,
etc..,
etc..,

By the way, the important point in my post is the fact that the photoshop guy at Meade forgot to change the image of the ALT locking mechanism - see ?

Best.,

Regards,

skybsd


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