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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5749119 - 03/22/13 06:58 AM

Quote:

...If Meade cacks, ... The SCT void of a Meadeless market place would be short lived.




If Meade came upon financial troubles, it would be purchased, probably by some company on the Rim, for its brand alone (not making any comment on the quality of its products, myself).


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Footbag
Post Laureate
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Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: moynihan]
      #5749334 - 03/22/13 09:56 AM

I don't see people bashing Meade. I do see a lot of people, including myself, advocating for Edge scopes. They are really great and Celestron hit it out of the park.

If I thought the Meade ACF scopes were better then the Edge, I'd own one.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: rcdk]
      #5749411 - 03/22/13 10:32 AM

Quote:



I am just trying to satisfy my curiosity.




Funny way of doing that, muchacho. If I didn't know better, I'd say you are a pot-stirrer in your day job.

And I've observed just the opposite---SO THERE!


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5749415 - 03/22/13 10:34 AM

Quote:



Hey! Who are you, and what have you done with Rod?!?




OLD FATHER TIME DONE GOT ME AT LAST...!


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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: rmollise]
      #5749936 - 03/22/13 03:17 PM

Well, for years Meade was the 600# gorilla having pushed C into bankruptcy. Now that Synta's Asian sources and capital is available to Celestron, the foot is on the other shoe. Additionally, IME, Meade made (and continues to make) several expensive mistakes in product development. This resulted in harsher terms and worse service to resellers. This gave Celestron an opening. My old dealer has dropped Meade entirely as Celestron is just better to deal with.

Frankly, I doubt Meade's Chinese suppliers are going to let it go away. They just picked up the Explorer Scientific brand and Meade could be had pretty cheaply. With 1.3 million shares outstanding and an opening bid of $1.76 this morning, you can probably own it for $3-4 million. I note it's trading a lot closer to its 52 week low than its high, and well under book value. This counter to the stock market as a whole, but the last 10-Q shows a $2.73 million dollar loss for the 9 months ending Nov. 2012.

More worrying is the burn rate. Meade went throught $3.62 million in cash in the 10-Q period and only had $282,000 cash on hand. Meade's reporting is not very current, so we're two quarters down the road with not much finacial information to go on. I see Bill Vorce has purchased several LS-6 returns. Meade usually lets these go for about $0.10 on the dollar if you buy 50+. One way ro raise cash, if you have to.


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Whichwayisnorth
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Geo.]
      #5749942 - 03/22/13 03:21 PM

I own both, like both, use both. Both companies have been good and bad to me in the past but I neither like or dislike them. It is what it is. Mass produced telescopes, mounts and cameras.

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moynihan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 07/22/03

Loc: Lake Michigan Watershed
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Geo.]
      #5749971 - 03/22/13 03:31 PM

Quote:

... I doubt Meade's Chinese suppliers are going to let it go away.




The suppliers simply start a new company together to buy the brand? ....Wonder who is Synta's major Chinese competitor is? Anybody know? It would be interesting if Synta bought Meade also


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Robo-bob]
      #5750354 - 03/22/13 06:33 PM

I completely agree. It's like saying that if Buick goes under and stops making big, floaty, grandpa boats, Lincoln will stop improving its own floaty boats and raise prices. The reality is, just as there are many other kinds of automobiles (other than floaty boats) competing for buyers' dollars, there are many other telescope designs (beyond SCTs) doing the same. There's no shortage of competition. Company's that fail to win business deserve to lose. It's the American way.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #5750587 - 03/22/13 08:49 PM

Innovator? Meade? Did Meade invent the commercial SCT?

They copied Celestron a decade after Celestron had revolutionized reflecting telescopes and virtually buried Meade's quaint old Newtonian and imported achromat business. I'd rank Meade as more of a "competitor" than "innovator" and not a competitor averse to knocking off rather than investing in novel designs. Though the LX200 *mount* was truly innovative. Unfortunately it carried a derivative/knock off OTA design.

- Jim


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rcdk
super member


Reged: 11/13/10

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5750949 - 03/22/13 11:38 PM

Quote:

I own both, like both, use both. Both companies have been good and bad to me in the past but I neither like or dislike them. It is what it is. Mass produced telescopes, mounts and cameras.




I keep trying to figure out an angle to convince my wife to let me get a Celestron now. So I can round out the collection, or something. Whatever it takes.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5751527 - 03/23/13 10:44 AM

Quote:

Though the LX200 *mount* was truly innovative. Unfortunately it carried a derivative/knock off OTA design.

- Jim




It was innovative, but it was more a case of building on, improving, and making cheaper the Celestron Compustar, which was there first.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: rmollise]
      #5751716 - 03/23/13 11:59 AM

Was Compustar GOTO or "push-to"? I can't remember.

Regards,

Jim


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Qwickdraw
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 03/03/12

Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5751913 - 03/23/13 01:33 PM

I just read in another thread how an owner could not get parts from Orion to repair a drive gear. Others commented on how this is policy for both Meade and Celestron. I am considering buying a new 14" cat next month and this, if true is very disturbing. Does anybody have 1st hand knowledge of this?

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Greg Boynton
member


Reged: 05/29/09

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5752085 - 03/23/13 03:09 PM

I own Celestrons. But I don't have anything against blue paint.

I think Meade has put out it's fair share of interesting products. Actually a bunch of them that I would be happy to own. I think Meade has taken a lot of chances, maybe more than Celestron. A fair number had problems. But looking at my short list here, I would be happy to own any of these, even the RCX. It's bit over-engineered, but very cool.

The big ED refractors
ETXs and the LX200 Mak
RCX400
ACF F10 SCT
Research Grade Newts and eyepieces.
16" SCTs


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Stelios
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: West Hills, CA
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Greg Boynton]
      #5752221 - 03/23/13 04:20 PM

I also own Celestrons, but I had no complaints against Meade--until I recommended an AR-5 to a friend back in 2002. The optics were great--but the experience with the mount, and (which is what matters) Meade's customer service, was so bad it alienated my friend to astronomy, and convinced me (who, being more experienced, was the one communicating with Meade) to not trust them again. I think that others are in the same emotional boat albeit with different products, and this, more than the Edge HD vs. ACF superiority issue, may be why Celestron is doing better today.

What might convince me to try Meade again? A consistent stream of good customer service experiences, and consistent reports of good quality control and products that work. Even then, there would have to be a fall-off in Celestron quality before I would bother.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5752283 - 03/23/13 04:49 PM

Quote:

I just read in another thread how an owner could not get parts from Orion to repair a drive gear. Others commented on how this is policy for both Meade and Celestron. I am considering buying a new 14" cat next month and this, if true is very disturbing. Does anybody have 1st hand knowledge of this?




Not sure about Meade's current policy. Celestron does sell spare parts.

Edited by rmollise (03/23/13 04:49 PM)


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts [Re: rmollise]
      #5752313 - 03/23/13 05:06 PM

The impression I get is that Meade sell dreams, by which I mean that they tell you about the excitement you will feel using their products.

Chris


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts [Re: cn register 5]
      #5752344 - 03/23/13 05:31 PM

Quote:

The impression I get is that Meade sell dreams, by which I mean that they tell you about the excitement you will feel using their products.

Chris




Well, that's true to some extent for everything beyond butter and eggs...

Meade has produced some excellent telescopes over the years.

In the 80s, the 2080s and their LX3/5/6 descendants were not always as good as Celestrons optically--though sometimes they were, and sometimes they were better--but they almost always brought some innovation to the table. I've always bought Celestron, but I am well aware if John Diebel's company hadn't been in there competing, we'd probably still be using AC drive-spur gear scopes.

In the 1990s, the LX200 hit a home freaking run. While it was only somewhat of a technical advance over the Compustar, it was AFFORDABLE. The ETX was another huge hit and a great scope. So was the LX90.

Turn of the century...the LX200GPS was, for once, Meade playing catchup...and it stuck in a lot of folks' craws that they tried to even the playing field with lawsuits. From there, it was downhill for 'em IMHO. The RCX 400 was a great idea, but it was very poorly executed. The failure of the RCX coupled with the financial realities that came with Meade being a publicly traded company have left them struggling to get up from the canvas these days. Given the seriousness of the business climate for them, I am ASTOUNDED that they let the LX800 and 80 out the door without both being fracking perfect.

Still, while I've often been called "a Celestron man," I am rooting for old blue. I am not immune to their siren song...I came THIS CLOSE to ordering an RCX. Sometimes in the dead of night, I shudder over that. Other times I am sorry I didn't. Go figure.


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5752657 - 03/23/13 08:40 PM

Quote:

Was Compustar GOTO or "push-to"? I can't remember.

Regards,

Jim




Go-to.


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EFT
Vendor - Deep Space Products
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Reged: 05/07/07

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Question about Celestron/Meade posts new [Re: Qwickdraw]
      #5753879 - 03/24/13 12:46 PM

Quote:

I just read in another thread how an owner could not get parts from Orion to repair a drive gear. Others commented on how this is policy for both Meade and Celestron. I am considering buying a new 14" cat next month and this, if true is very disturbing. Does anybody have 1st hand knowledge of this?




Orion does not sell parts to second owners. Meade seems to be in flux, sometimes they have parts available, sometimes they don't, but when they do they will sell them to anyone. Celestron will sell parts to anyone in the US. In each case, the parts available are limited to certain parts. No one has a parts list where they will sell any part of their equipment.


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