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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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azure1961p
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C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do?
      #5743213 - 03/19/13 03:20 PM

Hypothetically: you are an observer of deepsky galaxies and such as much as mars and the moon. Even more amazingly you are given a choice (oh hell it s free) of a ten inch apo or c14 - which would you pick?

Because the planetary is at least good in a c14 and its got the extra aperture for galaxies, I'd opt for a 14.

Am I wrong or can the apo wver match the 14 on galaxies. Contrast only goes so far.

Pete


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Whichwayisnorth
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5743226 - 03/19/13 03:26 PM


A ten inch APO would be so expensive that I would get that one and sell it.


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GlennLeDrew
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5743251 - 03/19/13 03:33 PM

If someone were offering for free either a C14 (Edge, I'm assuming) or a 10" apo, I'd choose the former. A lot easier to make an observatory for! And the extra aperture is a boon.

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saemark30
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Reged: 02/21/12

Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5743303 - 03/19/13 03:54 PM

If someone was offering a C14 or a 10" apo for free, I would take the 10" APO until I needed the money and then sell it.
I could then buy 10 to 100 C14's or go with a 18" dob and have change for a 180mm APO.
Heck it depends if you just want to see Messiers or NGC stuff.


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Darren Drake
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5743313 - 03/19/13 03:58 PM

Deep sky obviously goes to the C14 with almost twice the light. Lunar/planetary is close but the seeing issues favor the apo. Resolution would be better in the C14 but the contrast on small features in the apo about makes up for it. This makes lunar planetary about a draw (Assuming the C14 has very good optics.) Overall winner is the C14.

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WadeH237
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5743338 - 03/19/13 04:06 PM

I already have a C14, so I would go for the APO. Mounting could be an issue, but i suspect that my AP1600 could probably even carry a 10" APO.

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bilgebay
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Darren Drake]
      #5743341 - 03/19/13 04:08 PM

I would get the 10" APO and sell it. Then I would invest the money on a remote observatory and all the equipment needed for that.

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Paul G
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5743345 - 03/19/13 04:09 PM

Quote:

I would get the 10" APO and sell it. Then I would invest the money on a remote observatory and all the equipment needed for that.






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MikeBOKC
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5743680 - 03/19/13 06:35 PM

Well a ten inch APO is sort of a fantasy isn't it? I am sure some exist and are permanently mounted in professional or university observatories, but I doubt if there are more than a few dozen worldwide something like a 60 inch Newt. The cost would be stratospheric likely $20k or more, and the mounting requirement would be equally prohibitive as to space and cost. A c-14 however actually exists and is achievable. However, given the option of either at no cost, I'd probably take the 10 inch APO, set it up and charge five bucks a head for the hundreds of CN members who would make weekly pilgrimages to view and caress it and buy myself a couple of C-14s to play with in the adjoining field. Then I'd list it in the classifieds and watch 10,000 heads explode . . .

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Jared
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5743695 - 03/19/13 06:42 PM

Quote:

Hypothetically: you are an observer of deepsky galaxies and such as much as mars and the moon. Even more amazingly you are given a choice (oh hell it s free) of a ten inch apo or c14 - which would you pick?

Because the planetary is at least good in a c14 and its got the extra aperture for galaxies, I'd opt for a 14.

Am I wrong or can the apo wver match the 14 on galaxies. Contrast only goes so far.

Pete




You're asking this question on the Cats and Casses forum... I hope you're not surprised by the answers!

By my calculations, the C14 would have an advantage of roughly 25% in actual image brightness (throughput) , once you account for light loss from central obstruction, typical reflectivity for modern mirrors (with enhanced over coatings), etc.. That's a real advantage, but not anything like the 2x you'd expect from just comparing straight apertures.

If I assume a 90% Strehl for the Edge and a 95% for the refractor, then the MTF curves at critical frequencies would be almost identical for the two with a slight edge to the C14.

I wouldn't want to have to figure out a mount for the refractor, and I believe it can be difficult to get a triplet above 8" or so to cool fully if you don't live in Florida. The same can be said for a C14, of course... Obviously, the C14 is the more practical scope in terms of ease of mounting and ease of use. But there is still something special about big refractors. If I didn't have to worry about an observatory or about mounting it, I'd go with the 10" apochromat.


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highfnum
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Reged: 09/06/06

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Jared]
      #5743756 - 03/19/13 07:02 PM

any specific examples of 10 inch apo

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BKBrown
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Reged: 08/23/09

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5743819 - 03/19/13 07:22 PM Attachment (46 downloads)

If I'm not picking up the tab, the 10" Apo...the APM/LZOS 254mm f/9 is my "dream" scope". But at 42,773 euros ($55,177 US) it is unattainable by mere mortals. Not only the cost of the scope, but you'll spend a hefty percentage of that price getting a first rate mount and accessories; and of course it cries out for an observatory. So even if you got the scope free, you'll be dropping 50k for other stuff. At least I could use my TEC 140 as a wide field finder

Clear Skies,
Brian


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PatHolland
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5744125 - 03/19/13 10:11 PM

If I bought a 10" APO, I would need to take out a loan for my divorce attorney. My APO and I would most likely have to get an apartment somewhere - but at least we'd be together.

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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Reged: 11/26/03

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: PatHolland]
      #5744164 - 03/19/13 10:35 PM

10" apo all the way!

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David PavlichAdministrator
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Reged: 05/18/05

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #5744206 - 03/19/13 10:53 PM

Quote:

10" apo all the way!




Well, duh!!

David


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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5744216 - 03/19/13 10:59 PM



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David PavlichAdministrator
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5744232 - 03/19/13 11:06 PM

First, you're comparing an off-the-shelf SC to a hand built refractor. This is a common comparison, one I could never understand.

Now, let's get Mike Lockwood to make us a hand figured primary and secondary mirror to the very best of his ability...maybe Mike's best mirrors ever! And we'll also get Mike to figure the corrector as closely matched to these mirrors as his prolific skills will allow.

Now, let's make sure that the OTA has active cooling. And let's make sure that the tolerances of the mirror riding on the baffle tube is incredibly tight, to the point that the lube is specially formulated so that it can be very slippery but the amount of lube is only a few microns. And the focusing mechanism is extremely rigid to limit image shift to virtually nothing.

Ok...now we would have a fair comparison in optics, mechanics and price.

David


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Cotts
Just Wondering
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Reged: 10/10/05

Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5744269 - 03/19/13 11:29 PM

Not to gloat or anything but my 16" f/5 Teeter/Zambuto at a 'mere' $7K would be a better than either of those scopes for resolution, contrast and light gathering (taken together). The 10" would have better contrast but with noticeably less resolution and light gathering. The 14" SCT would be closer but still not quite the equal of the 16".

Now, if they were giving them away, I'd still take the 10" APO - there is still that refractor 'mystique'..

Dave


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Stelios
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Reged: 10/04/03

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Cotts]
      #5744362 - 03/20/13 02:01 AM

The question should have precluded the possibility of resale, as obviously the much more expensive APO makes more sense then. But if the scope was non-transferable, even if it came gifted with an appropriate mount, I think the C14 would win unless one had or could build an observatory in a dark site. Transporting a 10" APO and appropriate mount seems a daunting undertaking, even for non-girly men.

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Erik Bakker
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Reged: 08/10/06

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5744472 - 03/20/13 04:11 AM Attachment (68 downloads)

Hi Pete,

I have observed for hundreds of nights with a 10.5 " Alvan Clark for over a decade. A mere doublet operating at f/15 and like a big dob it requires a ladder

Include is a picture of this scope, so you get an idea of the size, mount and housing such a scope needs.

The images were very nice, but no match for my MW 16" f/5. In sizes larger than around 7", refractors loose some of the advantages we all know from smaller sizes. They can take a very long time to cool for example, especially in (airspaced) triplets. If one wants superb images from a large scope, a high-end dob with a small CO and proper thermal management is a great choice. Or a ditto Newt, Mak-Newt. And even well designed and manufactured MCT's or SCT's from a high-end maker deliver great images.

But money, housing etc. no object, a 10" f/15 apo will do better than any 14" SCT including a C14. The aperture difference is just too small.

You can do a scaled-down experiment with some more easily obtainable instruments: a 90mm f/9 Vixen fluorite or 92 mm f/7 A-P Stowaway vs a Celestron C5.


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5744663 - 03/20/13 08:30 AM

The view in the eyepiece is the combination of many factors.

APO refractors between 4" and 6" seem to be a sweet spot in that they don't really have anything that the user needs to do to make them perform. They cool quickly and are permanently collimated. Plus, they present phenomenal wide field views and have amazing contrast. There is truly something special about looking through them.

But over 6", they quickly start to get big and heavy. A couple of weeks ago, Roland Christen posted an interesting discussion on the largest practical size for APO refractors using current design technology. In particular, he said that for a 10" APO triplet, it was impossible to get visual colors to come to the same focus, while also correcting for spherical aberration. This discussion was in the context of why a 10" Mak-Cass was putting up better views side-by-side than a 10" APO at a particular star party.

In larger sizes, reflecting telescopes are really the way to go. Even a mass produced SCT can put up stunning views when it's at temperature equilibrium and properly collimated. At a star party last year, I was observing through my C14 early in the night. When I was ready to walk the telescope field, I left it pointed at M13 with a 31mm Nagler. The next day, a camper near me said that while I was gone, a short line formed at my C14. Some of the people looking through it made comments that it put up the best view of that object at the event - even better than the large dobs on the field.

But back to the question at hand, if I were looking for a telescope to use every day, I'd take the C14. If I were looking for a seriously cool scope to bring out to a star party, I would take the 10" APO. The question would be a lot harder if I were forced to choose between a C14 and something like an AP-130 or AP-175.


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mgwhittle
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Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5748440 - 03/21/13 08:15 PM

Having a 175mm triplet with no prior experience with APOs this size I was surprised at the length of time required for it to cool down for best performance. Going from 70 indoors to 50-55 outdoors with falling temperatures this winter has required cool down times exceeding an hour, closer to two hours some nights. My unvented C11 easily beats it on cool down times by a factor of 2. In addition, anything larger and I would need help getting it up on the mount.

Having said that, once up in the rings and cooled down......WHOA! The purity of the image is outstanding. Yeah, I'll take a 10 inch APO.


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jrbarnett
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Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5748629 - 03/21/13 10:08 PM

10" unobstructed FTW!

But I'd want both. I'd center punch the C-14. Well, six or seven of them, and use them for counterweights for the 10-incher.



- Jim


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5748656 - 03/21/13 10:17 PM

Quote:

Hypothetically: you are an observer of deepsky galaxies and such as much as mars and the moon. Even more amazingly you are given a choice (oh hell it s free) of a ten inch apo or c14 - which would you pick?


Pete



"Hypothetically" If I could have a scope butler to set up, tear down, mop my brow, and hand me eyepieces whenever I call out "Jeeves,..9mm Nagler!!"
then I'd take the 10 inch apochromat.
If I had to hump it around and set it up myself, the C14.

Steve


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DJCalma
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Reged: 01/17/13

Loc: Northern California
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5748667 - 03/21/13 10:21 PM

I'd take a 7" apo over a C14, does that count? Never been a fan of those short, stubby looking things aside from small Maks. Although, to be fair I've never seen the views through an Edge HD.

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jrbarnett
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: DJCalma]
      #5748749 - 03/21/13 11:27 PM

Now that you mention it, a hundred or so people a year who opt for a lowly 5.5" TEC 140 over a C14 OTA, the latter being cheaper than the 5.5" TEC, make a similar choice to the one you describe.

- Jim


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johnnyha
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5748834 - 03/22/13 12:02 AM

I know this is the Cat forum but it is surprising to me as well as noted before, many would opt for the 30% obstructed commercial mirror over a handmade work of art with no obstruction, no diffraction, perfect images. Of course the mounting issue is not at all practiclal in fact almost... insur-mountable.



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Mark Costello
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Matthews, NC, USA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5749268 - 03/22/13 09:26 AM

Quote:

I know this is the Cat forum but it is surprising to me as well as noted before, many would opt for the 30% obstructed commercial mirror over a handmade work of art with no obstruction, no diffraction, perfect images. Of course the mounting issue is not at all practiclal in fact almost... insur-mountable.






One reason might be because that the cat would be a good bit more maneagable than the large refractor. Personally, I'd take a 8" SCT or Dob over an 8" refractor, no matter how good it was - any day, hands down, not look back....


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mikertx
sage
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Reged: 09/29/05

Loc: Austin, TX
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5749615 - 03/22/13 12:47 PM

I think you bring up an interesting point. You can view a telescope as a cherished work of art or as a tool for accomplishing a task. Both views are completely valid. I can't bring myself to sell my TEC140 even though I don't use it much because IMO it's a work of art. For most of what I am doing these days (spectroscopy, photometry) my C11 is a much better choice.

Mike

Quote:

I know this is the Cat forum but it is surprising to me as well as noted before, many would opt for the 30% obstructed commercial mirror over a handmade work of art with no obstruction, no diffraction, perfect images. Of course the mounting issue is not at all practiclal in fact almost... insur-mountable.






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cavefrog
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Reged: 11/11/08

Loc: loozyanna
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5750722 - 03/22/13 09:37 PM

Quote:

First, you're comparing an off-the-shelf SC to a hand built refractor. This is a common comparison, one I could never understand.

Now, let's get Mike Lockwood to make us a hand figured primary and secondary mirror to the very best of his ability...maybe Mike's best mirrors ever! And we'll also get Mike to figure the corrector as closely matched to these mirrors as his prolific skills will allow.

Now, let's make sure that the OTA has active cooling. And let's make sure that the tolerances of the mirror riding on the baffle tube is incredibly tight, to the point that the lube is specially formulated so that it can be very slippery but the amount of lube is only a few microns. And the focusing mechanism is extremely rigid to limit image shift to virtually nothing.

Ok...now we would have a fair comparison in optics, mechanics and price.

David




+1... NOW your talking comparison!!!

Theo


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azure1961p
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/17/09

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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #5750894 - 03/22/13 10:58 PM

Quote:

First, you're comparing an off-the-shelf SC to a hand built refractor. This is a common comparison, one I could never understand.






Hi David,

The comparison to a stock C14 was intentional as an optimized one to your spec (which Is a nice spec) doesn't really speak for the instrument on its own out of the - real world - box (as most people would use it). It is that the instrument is nt a custom product and is readily available at a fantastic price that makes it the contender it is. I didn't see the c14 as a mass market whipping post but rather the possibility in this hypothetical that off the shelf it is better for a variety of objects. It'd be gangbusters to be sure with all those custom fabricated optics but the achievement here is in the success of the instrument with out it.

Pete


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Darren Drake
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/09/02

Loc: Chicagoland
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5750944 - 03/22/13 11:35 PM

Lets not forget what Damean Peach uses to image the moon and planets....

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Fomalhaut
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 08/16/08

Loc: Switzerland
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: DJCalma]
      #5751248 - 03/23/13 06:54 AM

Quote:

I'd take a 7" apo over a C14, does that count? Never been a fan of those short, stubby looking things aside from small Maks. Although, to be fair I've never seen the views through an Edge HD.




I had owned and frequently used two different C8s (an orange good one, and later on a "so,so" black Powerstar one) for over 20 years.
Meanwhile, for the last twenty years, I've had (amongst other scopes) two good 4-inch apos (at first the Vixen Fl-102 and after that a perfect Tak FCT-100). Instead of a C8 I now have a Mewlon-180 delivering at least the same performance as the better of my past C8s, and I'm using it on fainter galaxies, GCs and PNs.
So I believe to have "the best of both worlds" within my weight-class (terrace, no permanent mount plus problems with my disks).

If I had to decide for just one scope, the one which would stay would be the 4-inch apo. - It may show less than the 7-inch-DK on the objects mentioned above, but what it shows is (comparatively independent from seeing conditions) of outstanding contrast and beauty! Through the SCs or MCs or Casses I have always felt like looking at kind of nice pictures, while the Apo seems to show me "the real thing". This may sound magic, but nevertheless in my case is the case ...
Thus, my decades of observing with apochromatic refractors (AND reflectors) somehow must have spoilt me irreversibly .
OTOH, I'm still happy to own both!

Conclusion: When now thinking of scaling up both of the above scopes by the same factor of 2 there results exactly a proportional pair of a hypothetical 14-inch DK/SC versus an 8-inch Fluorite triplet refractor... => Personally, I'd prefer that one.

Chris


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ValeryD
Vendor (Aries)
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Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5755506 - 03/25/13 04:48 AM

Quote:

A couple of weeks ago, Roland Christen posted an interesting discussion on the largest practical size for APO refractors using current design technology. In particular, he said that for a 10" APO triplet, it was impossible to get visual colors to come to the same focus, while also correcting for spherical aberration. This discussion was in the context of why a 10" Mak-Cass was putting up better views side-by-side than a 10" APO at a particular star party.






Can you, please, give a direct link to this discussion where Roland said such things?


Thanks.

Valery.


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De Lorme
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 12/30/08

Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5755516 - 03/25/13 05:02 AM

Apo for sure. Find some way to mount it. De Lorme

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Illinois
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/18/06

Loc: near Dixon, Illinois USA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: De Lorme]
      #5755589 - 03/25/13 07:16 AM

I remember that Astronomic selling 254mm (10") F9 OTA for $39,999....just tube!!!!! If I can afford it and I wouldnt buy it. Meade 16" SCT!

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Classic8
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/12/06

Loc: Naperville, IL, USA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Illinois]
      #5755875 - 03/25/13 10:49 AM

Quote:

I remember that Astronomic selling 254mm (10") F9 OTA for $39,999....just tube!!!!! If I can afford it and I wouldnt buy it. Meade 16" SCT!




That would look impressive set up in the living room.


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WadeH237
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/24/07

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: ValeryD]
      #5756232 - 03/25/13 01:58 PM

Quote:

Can you, please, give a direct link to this discussion where Roland said such things?


Thanks.

Valery.




It was in a conversation on the AP-UG forum. Here is the direct link to his quote (which I paraphrased).

-Wade


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AlienRatDog
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: PatHolland]
      #5756273 - 03/25/13 02:15 PM

Quote:

If I bought a 10" APO, I would need to take out a loan for my divorce attorney. My APO and I would most likely have to get an apartment somewhere - but at least we'd be together.




FYI there are A LOT more women than 10" APOs out there...just sayin'...


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Paul G
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: AlienRatDog]
      #5756793 - 03/25/13 06:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If I bought a 10" APO, I would need to take out a loan for my divorce attorney. My APO and I would most likely have to get an apartment somewhere - but at least we'd be together.




FYI there are A LOT more women than 10" APOs out there...just sayin'...






Go Blue, beat Kansas!


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clintwhitman
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: WadeH237]
      #5757383 - 03/26/13 01:43 AM

That's why Roland made the Pearl a 9" APO at F 10.6.


I have to live with this set up in our permanent observatory. While I have been known to be very happy when using friends TAK Mewlon 300 There are not any telescopes I have found that out perform it. My friends 10" F15 Zeiss will but it has not been setup in years now. Personally I guess you have no idea what a 9" AP can do until the seeing lets the scope cut loose and hold Mars or Saturn at 700 power for an hour or two. After this happens a few times, coupled with the resolution that the triplet produces a truck load of C-14s and a gun could not get this scope out of my observatory...
(aveman

Clint and Philo With the Pearl At CSPAMP VI Mnt Pinos


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rflinn68
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5758166 - 03/26/13 12:46 PM

This is really silly. Have you looked at the price of a 10" apo??!!! Take the apo and sell it and buy ten C14's if you want to! I really do love apo's, sct's, and newts, but for equal amount of money spent on each type you cant beat the view you'll get with the newtonian.

So me, I'd take the apo and sell it. Then I would buy a 6" apo, C14 EdgeHD, C8 EdgeHD, 12.5" Teeter/Zambuto Planet Killer, AND a Teeter/Lightholder 20" f/3.5 decked out with a motor drive. You'd still have money left over for a very nice mount for the refractor and SCT's. $50,000 can still buy a lot


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Ed Holland
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: rflinn68]
      #5758512 - 03/26/13 03:47 PM

Probably a waste of time for me to take either option... I want ease & rapidity of setup as a priority, then ease of storage. I'd take the C14, and donate it to the local school.

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Eddgie
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5760168 - 03/27/13 12:36 PM

Why didn't you include something like a Go-To 12" f/5 dob with Zambuto mirrors?

That would be my choice over these other two.

In fact, it is my choice. I have been wanting one for two years now.

Reflectors rule.


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JJK
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Reged: 04/28/08

Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5761654 - 03/28/13 01:26 AM

10" apo.

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rathbaster
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5761868 - 03/28/13 07:51 AM

I'd go with the C-14

Since it's "free" I would have it custom painted white with a blue back and highlights. That way when its sitting in storage it looks like R2-D2.


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cavefrog
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: rathbaster]
      #5762699 - 03/28/13 04:44 PM

You just gave me an excellent idea for a storage dust cover!

Thanks,
Theo


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DaemonGPF
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5763285 - 03/28/13 10:09 PM

Quote:

If I'm not picking up the tab, the 10" Apo...the APM/LZOS 254mm f/9 is my "dream" scope". But at 42,773 euros ($55,177 US) it is unattainable by mere mortals. Not only the cost of the scope, but you'll spend a hefty percentage of that price getting a first rate mount and accessories; and of course it cries out for an observatory. So even if you got the scope free, you'll be dropping 50k for other stuff. At least I could use my TEC 140 as a wide field finder

Clear Skies,
Brian





Pfft... CLEARLY a grab-n-go type of instrument for small, wild star parties with lots of little kids running around loaded up on sugar.



Seriously though, I was pondering this as I started to read the thread. Then I tried to visualize a 10" APO. Now that I've seen this pic the first thing that popped in my mind was "Holy ____, that is rediculous!" I would just love one peep through that sucker, but I'd have the fear of god in me owning one.


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Fomalhaut
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #5763601 - 03/29/13 03:46 AM

What I will do?

Based on cost-efficiency-ratio, and if I were not a rich institution, I would certainly never buy an apo > 6 inches. And without permanent mount plus housing, not even an apo > 5 inches.

Question from my side: Are modern C14s ventilated nowadays? And has QC been substantially improved compared to yesterday?
=> If not, I wouldn't either ever buy a C14, be it EDG or SCF (strongly curved field), thank you.

Chris

Edited by Fomalhaut (03/30/13 10:39 AM)


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nytecam
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5763682 - 03/29/13 05:49 AM

Quote:

I would get the 10" APO and sell it. Then I would invest the money on a remote observatory and all the equipment needed for that.


Hopefully the gifts would contain the proviso of being used not sold for profit

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cavefrog
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: nytecam]
      #5765818 - 03/29/13 09:51 PM

I got to admit, to be given to me? that's not a choice and I wouldn't sell it to buy something else either. Imagine the prestige!

I'll take the APO please!

Theo


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RocketScientist
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #5774525 - 04/03/13 12:24 AM

Quote:

Seriously though, I was pondering this as I started to read the thread. Then I tried to visualize a 10" APO. Now that I've seen this pic the first thing that popped in my mind was "Holy ____, that is rediculous!"




I had unlimited access to a 9" refractor (not an apo) when I was in college. The school had a small observatory built into the roof of the astronomy department building. That 9" was crazy big, and it didn't have computer drives. You have to muscle the thing around, pick up a large stepladder and move it near the eyepiece, etc. And of course you had to push two electric buttons to rotate the dome, and climb up on the ladder to hand-crank the dome slit open and shut.

I had a lot of fun with it, but it was not practical and I can't imagine owning anything like that even if cost was no object. You would see more with less money and hassle by using something like a 16-18" high-quality Dob.

On the other hand, for those refractor owners who think that only those silly Big Dob owners need ladders...


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stanislas-jean
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5774802 - 04/03/13 07:49 AM

Nice refractor.
The 10" apo will blow visually mostly the C14 by the stability of the images at the eyepiece.
Because we are speaking about visual observation.
Over a year period this is sure that the apo will involve a better efficientcy brought by the elevation of the optics and the one way light into the tube.
Mostly this could be 2 step better seeing than the sct.
Apart the respective costs.
Stanislas-Jean


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Traveler
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Loc: The Netherlands
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5778926 - 04/05/13 02:24 AM

Hi Erik,

Is that a picture of the Kapteyn observatory at Roden (The Netherlands)? Very nice!
The last time i was there (for an ICT Training), there was "only" a 16" Dob in the huge dome...


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Astro4.3
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Reged: 11/06/04

Loc: So-Cal, High Desert
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Traveler]
      #5799460 - 04/14/13 09:16 PM

Clint's living the dream!!! Awesome scope man!

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Ed Wiley
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Reged: 05/18/05

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Erik Bakker]
      #5799507 - 04/14/13 09:45 PM

C14 versus 10" Apo? I would rather begin by thinking what I could buy for the same price I would pay for a 10" Apo.

Ed


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Erik Bakker
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Re: C14,versus a 10" apo... What will you do? new [Re: Traveler]
      #5799809 - 04/15/13 02:07 AM

Quote:

Hi Erik,

Is that a picture of the Kapteyn observatory at Roden (The Netherlands)? Very nice!
The last time i was there (for an ICT Training), there was "only" a 16" Dob in the huge dome...




No. This is the Leiden Observatory.


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