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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
New C8s - Cheap!
      #5749714 - 03/22/13 01:26 PM

The standard C8 SCT is *the* icon of the breed. Small enough to ride comfortably on a CG5 class mount. Big enough to serve up a large menu of observing options. In short, an OTA that everyone ought to own at least once in an observing career. As the Edge HD marketing drone muddles the hopeful and credulous into a zombie-like state of semi-consciousness, the standard SCTs much loved for generations have been overlooked.

In this case, these are brand new C8 OTAs featuring Fastar secondaries, a Vixen-comatible rail, a Celestron RDF and a hideous metallic orange paint job. I picked one up last year in a whim to take on an observing trip and to later use for outreach and to loan to friends. The one I received happened to have optics as good as any SCT I've ever owned. I remain quite happy with it and have added an Orion finder shoe, Scopestuff Delrin fine focus knob, Celestron flexible dew shade (works with both C6 and C8), Roberto's Knobs and Pacific Designs soft case. It will likely accompany me on my next long duration dark sky trip this coming September. What's not to love about 8" of aperture you don't feel guilty abusing over extended periods in harsh environments?

In any case, I noticed that Highpoint Scientific (with whom I have no relationship other than as a happy customer) still has some of these Nexstar C8 "unbundled" OTAs available...for just $799.

http://www.highpointscientific.com/product/11069-OTA/Celestron-C8-SCT-OTA-Ora...

Now that's a great deal.

- Jim


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rmollise
Postmaster
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Reged: 07/06/07

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5749815 - 03/22/13 02:12 PM

Well, I do like the orange trope, but I gotta admit it is a bit much to look at day after day...

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: rmollise]
      #5749888 - 03/22/13 02:44 PM

Y'know what they say, Rod. When the lights go out they all look pretty much the same.

The "ugly" has actually kinda grown on me. So much so that when I set it up to observe, instead of a black RACI I use a metallic silver RACI. The clash between the silver on a GSO finder and the metallic orange on the OTA is pretty extreme. Like wearing plaid and stripes at the same time.

- Jim


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TennDon
member
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Reged: 07/10/11

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: rmollise]
      #5749891 - 03/22/13 02:46 PM

I recently got one of those High Point Orange C8s to go on a CG5. I like it too.

And, I think it's kinda purty esp. in the sunlight.
Anyway, at night you can't see the color.
Don


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REC
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5749982 - 03/22/13 03:37 PM

Jim, you really like that Scopestuff focusing wheel?

Thanks!

Bob


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5750037 - 03/22/13 04:02 PM Attachment (111 downloads)

Yep, that's the one I bought recently through High Point Scientific. I happen to love love love the metallic orange paint though! The best differences I've noticed are the new 8SE is a little brighter, sharper, and there's not the image shift when focusing as there is on my old C-8.
Here's a pic of my old 1985 SP C-8 and the Nexstar 8SE...


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: REC]
      #5750043 - 03/22/13 04:04 PM

Howdy Bob.

Yup, works like a charm. And it's a fraction of the price of a Feathertouch Microfocuser.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5750048 - 03/22/13 04:06 PM

Yeah, I was only kind of beating it up for the color. It's grown on me, really. Everyone knows what you have from across the field without stopping be to see.

- Jim


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Goodchild
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/31/08

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5750792 - 03/22/13 10:13 PM

+1 for the orange.

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Lane
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/19/07

Loc: Frisco, Texas
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Goodchild]
      #5750844 - 03/22/13 10:40 PM

I like that color.

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Tim J K
super member
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Reged: 05/19/09

Loc: Iowa
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Lane]
      #5751304 - 03/23/13 07:59 AM

I too have an Orange 8se - great optics and a "cool" orange color! My favorite scope.

Tim


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jgraham
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Reged: 12/02/04

Loc: Miami Valley Astronomical Soci...
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Tim J K]
      #5751315 - 03/23/13 08:14 AM

I kinda like the color, and the scope is even better! An easy fix is black faux leather vinyl contact 'paper'. The matte finish looks nice on a scope. Of course this is coming from someone who kinda likes the orange.

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Seiko4169
sage


Reged: 07/04/09

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jgraham]
      #5751327 - 03/23/13 08:27 AM

I've not seen an Orange tube in person yet but I think it looks cool in photographs. My Edge is nice and clean looking but I'm not convinced the creamy white is the best colour? My previous 8i and current grey/silver/gold 5i is ok whilst the black Tubed CPC was rather plain and cheap looking.

Overall I think the Celestron Orange tubes are the most visually appealing especially on a black mount.

Now, my little Etx 90 had them all beat!

Edited by Seiko4169 (03/23/13 08:30 AM)


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REC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5751362 - 03/23/13 08:52 AM

Thanks Jim, I think I'll pick one up for $30!

Bob


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Husbyggarn
sage


Reged: 12/12/08

Loc: Sweden
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5752355 - 03/23/13 05:38 PM

God, you guys are lucky, in Sweden it costs 1400$!
Even so, i can see myself owning one in the future...


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Patrick
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/16/03

Loc: Franklin, Ohio
Re: New C8s - Cheap! *DELETED* new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5752642 - 03/23/13 08:32 PM

Post deleted by Patrick

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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Patrick]
      #5752761 - 03/23/13 09:30 PM Attachment (59 downloads)

I got one of those last August from High Point also. Just love it. Optics are great! The website showed only 10 left when I got mine.I have it mounted on an ASGT also.Here's a pic from last weeks Arizona Messier Marathon. Thats my wife and Pomeranian If you look real close.

Edited by elmiko (03/23/13 09:42 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Patrick]
      #5752842 - 03/23/13 10:06 PM

I think the marketing department is hard at work. Celestron's first whitepaper ever was published for the EdgeHD launch. I've now used two different C8 EdgeHDs. One was really good optically. The other was soft like many other "average" quality SCTs. 50-50 is my experience with standards SCTs. 50% of them have had indifferent optics and the other 50% have had good optics. That track record has continued with the Edge's I've now used.

I say "much loved" for the 8" SCT in that it pretty much destroyed the market for EQ mounted Newtonians back in the day. It packed a lot of aperture into a tidy package and rode on a very portable mount comfortably. Note that "much loved" and "~50% of them have poor optics" are not mutually exclusive. There's a lot to love in compact, portable aperture, even if the quality of the image isn't so great.

Regards,

Jim


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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5752979 - 03/23/13 11:26 PM

Jim I concur. I also own a 10" lx- 50. But it is Kind of heavy to set up out in the yard for a quick look. With the c-8 I can carry the whole set up 20 ft. out the door, and be observing in a couple of minutes. And that includes a quick align on the CG-5.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5753044 - 03/24/13 12:03 AM

Hi elmiko.

I just finished collimating in the wake of installing Bob's Knobs on mine last week, and after re-collimating I cruised a few showcases under moonlit skies using an alt-az mount. I can move the whole kit and kaboodle out of the shed in one go. I'm definitely getting lazy.

I was also playing with the Celestron FF/FR visually using a 28mm RKE. Without the FF/FR, the stars start to go comatic starting in the outer 30% of the FOV, and get progressively worse all the way to the field stop. With the FF/FR in place, the stars start to deform in the outer 15% and get progressively worse in the way to the field stop. Also, the manner in which coma is manifest changes. The stars become comet shaped with tails pointing away from the center. With the FF/FR in place, the coma manifests as "seagull" shapes with the "v" pointing to center and the "wings" flattening out to the sides.

It definitely doesn't achieve the level of flattening or coma correction of the EdgeHD scopes (or the Meade ACF scopes for that matter), but with moderate AFOV long focal length 1.25" eyepieces it does tidy up the outer field a great deal.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (03/24/13 12:05 AM)


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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5753124 - 03/24/13 01:36 AM

Jim, which alt az mount are you using? I've got the Vixen star guy. I use it on some of my refractors, still have not put the C-8 on it yet. Speaking of fr ff I bought the Meade 6.3 fr. I tried using it on the Celestron, but can't achieve focus with it. Any idea why?

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palmer570
super member
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Reged: 09/04/12

Loc: Scranton, Pennsylvania
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5753270 - 03/24/13 04:49 AM

I just tried a 6.3 on my C8 and it seemed like it wasn't going to come into focus but eventualy did. I had a motofocus on it though and didn't want to run it for long periods of time and was focusing the wrong way at first so not sure how far off it was at the start or how fast the moto turns at top speed.

What do you have attached after the fr/ff?


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KeithC
super member


Reged: 08/23/06

Loc: Atlanta GA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5753533 - 03/24/13 10:05 AM

Jim,

What do you mean when you say 50% of them have been "soft" optically and the other 50% had "good optics"? What is the difference between those two extremes? Is it obvious visually or merely subtle? I have only looked through one C-8 and that was at an outreach Monday night. So I have little to compare your comments against in trying to understand what you mean.


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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: palmer570]
      #5753575 - 03/24/13 10:24 AM

Hi palmer750, I tried with a gso 2" diagonal and with a 2" nose piece on my dslr Canon t2i. Niether one could achieve focus.

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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5753582 - 03/24/13 10:26 AM

I still haven't tried it with my Meade 10 sct though.

Edited by elmiko (03/24/13 10:27 AM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5754953 - 03/24/13 08:59 PM

Hi elmiko.

I am using a DSV-3 with the C8.

Here's the mount with an AT111EDT on it. I didn't take a picture of the C8 on the mount unfortunately, but the mount has zero problems with the C8 OTA.



Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: KeithC]
      #5754986 - 03/24/13 09:14 PM

Hi Keith. By "soft" optics I mean that, no matter how well collimated and how well acclimated, the quality of star images and planetary images in the scope remained bloated in the case of stars and smudged in the case of planets. By "good" optics, I mean the converse - that when well collimated and cooled the scope produced reasonably crisp pinpoint stellar images and sharply rendered planetary detail. The poor examples had significantly unequal intra- and extra-focal diffraction patterns. The good examples did not have perfect symmetry, but were much, much closer to matched inside and outside of focus.

Were there other telescopes present besides the C8? If so, did you happen to observe the same target through the C8 and one of the other scopes at approximately the same magnification? What did you think about it's image versus the other scope's? That's probably the only way casually you'd be able to form an opinion about that particular C8 versus other types of scopes or other SCTs if more than one are in the field.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: palmer570]
      #5755002 - 03/24/13 09:22 PM

Hi palmer. Last night I mounted the stock 1.25" visual back aft of the FF/FR and used a 1.25" GSO mirror diagonal.

Regards,

Jim


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elmiko
member


Reged: 07/28/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5755030 - 03/24/13 09:37 PM

Jim that is one sweet set up!

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Julio
sage
*****

Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: Pembroke Pines ,FL
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5755141 - 03/24/13 10:42 PM

I just recently purchased one of the orange tube C8. I posted a while back about mine, intra focal and extra focal images are very similar and the details on Jupiter are amazing when seeing is good. I can always see 6 stars on the trap, Jupiter looked great easily showing detail within the GRS as well as eddies adjacent to GRS. This particular orange tube C8 outperforms the Intes MAK and the 4"APO.

Edited by Julio (03/24/13 11:01 PM)


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KeithC
super member


Reged: 08/23/06

Loc: Atlanta GA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5755238 - 03/24/13 11:48 PM

Thank you for the explanation Jim. There were 4 other scopes. A 6" Meade SCT and three refractors, a 90mm achro, 102mm apo and a 6" Meade ED. The C-8 had a soft image until it cooled, then the images were crisp, eventually rivaling the image in the large refractor. It bothered me that I could not seem to focus the 6" SCT to the same level of clarity as the 8". I was a little wary of asking comparison questions for fear of offending people. I want to expand my thinking without insulting others so I am not so sure how to word things sometimes.

Anyway, it was a good experience for me. I was afraid to get out of the car at first but those outreach people were a very nice gracious group of men and women. Pleasure to meet them, so glad I went. Some very nice people here as well.

Keith


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: KeithC]
      #5755284 - 03/25/13 12:21 AM

Excellent, Keith.

What makes determining the quality of an SCT under casual observing circumstances difficult is that SCTs take a long while to adjust to ambient temperatures compared to other designs (inch per inch), and also SCTs use extremely fast mirrors (~f/2) so collimation is absolutely critical to decent "crisp" performance in the design. As often as not you'll find SCTs at star parties to be slightly out of collimation. This is less of a big deal for DSOs, but for planets and tight doubles, it's the death knell of their performance.

Your approach is a good one. Use, see, learn and don't judge too quickly.

Regards,

Jim


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KeithC
super member


Reged: 08/23/06

Loc: Atlanta GA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5755672 - 03/25/13 08:40 AM

Jim,

Thank you the explanations and the encouragement!

Keith


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Alterf
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/07/06

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: KeithC]
      #5758646 - 03/26/13 04:56 PM

I bought one of these C8s, too. It is the first SCT I have ever used about which I have no complaints at all. The optics are sharp and have retained collimation for months so far, the focuser is just right, and I have experienced no image shift. The tube is light in weight, and I really like the metallic orange. I have enjoyed the views through it very much. It is does exactly what I hoped it would.

Val


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Alterf]
      #5758681 - 03/26/13 05:13 PM

Excellent Val.

Also kudos on your successful March 5 star party. Melding wifi and tablets with GOTO is a great tool for teaching.

Regards,

Jim


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Alterf
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 04/07/06

Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5759419 - 03/26/13 11:46 PM

Thanks, Jim. For some of the students, "what app do you use to control the scope" was the most interesting question. Others just hung around the scope and wouldn't leave. It was a real astronomical highlight for me. I hope it happens again soon.

Val


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mark379
sage
*****

Reged: 02/07/09

Loc: New Jersey
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: elmiko]
      #5792110 - 04/11/13 10:57 AM

Jim, You're right. I've owned quite a few sct's an some have less than average optics, while others have good optics. I finally settled on a c8 that is as close to perfect as I can find. The only other one that matched this mid 90's black tube was my friend's new nexstar orange tube. They are GREAT deal indeed. The ones being sold by by high point now are left over OTA's from the big sale 2 years back when the nexstar was $999.00. Afterward they split up the remaining mounts and tripods to the deal they have now.

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Daud
sage


Reged: 08/05/06

Loc: AZ, Scottsdale
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: mark379]
      #5792373 - 04/11/13 01:23 PM

That means that the $999 was a better deal...
I noticed that the combined price of the separated OTA and mount comes to the standard street price..

Quote:

Jim, You're right. I've owned quite a few sct's an some have less than average optics, while others have good optics. I finally settled on a c8 that is as close to perfect as I can find. The only other one that matched this mid 90's black tube was my friend's new nexstar orange tube. They are GREAT deal indeed. The ones being sold by by high point now are left over OTA's from the big sale 2 years back when the nexstar was $999.00. Afterward they split up the remaining mounts and tripods to the deal they have now.




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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Husbyggarn]
      #5792571 - 04/11/13 03:03 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Quote:

God, you guys are lucky, in Sweden it costs 1400$!
Even so, i can see myself owning one in the future...



Well, you've friends (and probably cousins) here.

GGPa from Karlskrona GGMa from Malmo. GGpa in the center with his parents (CA 1865).


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mark379
sage
*****

Reged: 02/07/09

Loc: New Jersey
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Geo.]
      #5793384 - 04/11/13 10:07 PM

You're right. They seem to be at the standard price separated...

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Daud]
      #5793546 - 04/11/13 11:30 PM

If you needed the mount, anyway. But many of us don't. So if you want an 8" SCT OTA only, new, this is a sweet deal.

Regards,

Jim


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magnus
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/17/04

Loc: Visby, Sweden
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: Geo.]
      #5793783 - 04/12/13 03:54 AM

What a nice photo
/Magnus 57N.


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Classic8
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/12/06

Loc: Naperville, IL, USA
Re: New C8s - Cheap! new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5794215 - 04/12/13 11:27 AM

Quote:

Hi Keith. By "soft" optics I mean that, no matter how well collimated and how well acclimated, the quality of star images and planetary images in the scope remained bloated in the case of stars and smudged in the case of planets. By "good" optics, I mean the converse - that when well collimated and cooled the scope produced reasonably crisp pinpoint stellar images and sharply rendered planetary detail. The poor examples had significantly unequal intra- and extra-focal diffraction patterns. The good examples did not have perfect symmetry, but were much, much closer to matched inside and outside of focus.

Were there other telescopes present besides the C8? If so, did you happen to observe the same target through the C8 and one of the other scopes at approximately the same magnification? What did you think about it's image versus the other scope's? That's probably the only way casually you'd be able to form an opinion about that particular C8 versus other types of scopes or other SCTs if more than one are in the field.

Regards,

Jim




I had a C8 like that. The images were always a bit "soft" and certainly not ideal. Other than that I loved the scope, it was on a fork mount but I could carry it in 1 arm and attach it to a wedge on an already aligned tripod, and start viewing almost immediately, while others were still setting up.


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