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Equipment Discussions >> Cats & Casses

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"...
      #5966216 - 07/11/13 07:06 PM

After receiving lots of great advice from forum members and lucking out by waiting for responses since Celestron rolled out some discounts while I was afflicted with analysis paralysis, I've been filling and emptying shopping carts for the last week and a half. Here's my quandary...

I want either an C8 Edge HD (now on sale for $1169) or a C9.25 Edge HD (now on sale for $2069) for an upcoming dark sky trip. It will be my "aperture" scope for the trip, so it's important. I had almost totally 100% decided on the C9.25 Edge HD (being tilted over the precipice when I learned that it has the larger rear port like the C11 and C14 so that I can use my A-P 2.7" rear adapter with it), but then once I had it in the cart something happened. After two days, I emptied the cart and refilled it with a C8 Edge HD, waited a day, and then added the C9.25 standard OTA ($1279) on the theory that I'd like to try a C9.25 OTA of some flavor, and the price of the C8 Edge HD plus the C9.25 standard is about the same as the C9.25 Edge alone. I also already have a Lymax for a C11 that I can adapt to use with the C9.25 standard. Two for the price of one, as it were. But...

I emptied the car again and put the C9.25 Edge HD back in it, and almost hit "proceed to checkout", then decided to sleep on it. The next day I yanked the C9.25 Edge HD and replaced it with the C8 Edge HD, mainly because by going C8 it would let me use the OTA on both mounts I'm taking (an alt-az and a driven EQ), and also would allow me to comfortably downsize the EQ I'm taking to an Atlas or CG5, rather than something in the AP900/G11/CGE class. My back would surely thank me.

But then I got to thinking about my last trip to this site. On that trip I had a 102mm refractor and a 7" (180mm) Mak-Cass. It was so dark that the 7" at the site performed on DSOs very much like my 12" performs from my suburban home, so while 180mm isn't a big scope, under very dark skies, it was big enough to keep me uber-busy for a week. While a C8 is a bump up in light grasp and resolution over a 7", it's not a huge bump up. The C9.25, in contrast, would be a substantial bump up over the 7-incher I used last time, so out went the C8 Edge HD and instead in went the C9.25 standard. Close enough in price to one another as to be interchangeable on that front. I almost hit the checkout button again, but then decided to once again sleep on it. After all, the C9.25 standard isn't on sale and the Edge scopes are...

The following day I added the C8 Edge HD to the car with the standard C9.25 and was *this close* >.< to pulling the trigger before dumping both and putting the C9.25 Edge HD back in the cart. Then, figuring that mean't I'd be rolling with a CGE or AP900 as a result (I like stability), said "Hey, why not a C11?" Out went the C9.25 Edge HD and in went a C11 Edge HD, until I saw the price. Total j-o-k-e. About 2x the price of the standard C11 even with the Edge HD OTA on sale, and in a range where for about the same money I could get both C8 Edge HD for my smaller mounts and a C9.25 Edge HD for its bigger rear aperture, for about the same money. But then I realized that for only a little more than the standard C9.25, I could instead get a standard C11 OTA ($1750), and DSO to me heart's content.

So I did what any reasonable person would do, and slept on it. A new dawn brought a new idea. I didn't want to be obligated to bring the larger mounts, so *poof* the C11 was removed from my cart and from consideration. Back in went the mount friendly C8 Edge HD and I was all set to buy when...



I looked at the lousy diagonal and cheap eyepiece (neither of which I'd ever use) and then looked at the 23mm Luminos and 2" XLT diagonal that comes with the C9.25 Edge HD, and figured I could dump the Luminos for at least $100 and the diagonal for at least $50, new, never used, shaving $150 off the real cost of the C9.25 Edge HD relative to the 8" version, so out with the 8, into the cart with the 9.25. And here I sit.

I need to order by COB tomorrow as I want ample time to use the OTA before the trip, leaving plenty of time prior to the trip for a return/refund or exchange if it doesn't measure up to my requirements. I've spent so much time with that shopping cart that I feel like a bagger at Safeway.

What should I do? Which should I buy? (I'll make it easy for you and set it up as multiple choice)

(a) C8 Edge HD
(b) C9.25 Edge HD
(c) C9.25 standard
(d) Both (a) and (c)

Among those alternatives, which would you buy and why?

Regards,

Jim


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Footbag
Post Laureate
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Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966231 - 07/11/13 07:17 PM

I did the same dance you did with my current OTA. I went with the 800 for one reason. The focal reducer for the 9.25 may be some time off.

After buying it and using it and loving it I still got aperture fever and considered selling it for an 11" Edge. A sweet open box deal fell into my lap, but I just couldn't swing it. I'm still hung up on the focal reducer and the 9.25, but that will solve itself soon enough. As you pointed out, mounting an 11" will take a larger mount.

I didn't really consider a regular c8, because I already had one and wanted the Edge upgrade. If I were to buy a non-edge, I'd look for a used one. There are many out there, and you get a great deal.

Hope that helps.


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Steve Darden
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/29/07

Loc: Woodstock, GA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966237 - 07/11/13 07:22 PM

Jim,

If my memory is correct, you already have a regular C8. I would either (a)get the C8 Edge HD and sell the regular C8 to cover part of the cost or (e) jump to the C11 standard. In my opinion, if you are going to have to take one of your larger mounts (to carry the C9) then you might as well make it count and go with the C11 that will show even more.


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EddWen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/26/08

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966250 - 07/11/13 07:26 PM

You will only get over your analysis paralysis by going through a 12 step process that will not be done in time for your trip.

Quote:



What should I do? Which should I buy? (I'll make it easy for you and set it up as multiple choice)

(a) C8 Edge HD
(b) C9.25 Edge HD
(c) C9.25 standard
(d) Both (a) and (c)

Among those alternatives, which would you buy and why?

Regards,

Jim




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groz
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/14/07

Loc: Campbell River, BC
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: EddWen]
      #5966261 - 07/11/13 07:39 PM

You want aperture. Why are you playing with 8 and 9 inch stuff in the shopping cart?

If you really want an SCT, and you want aperture, put the 14 inch in the cart, pull the trigger, and be done with it. Then again, if the price made you balk at the 11, you dont want to even look at (or thru) the 14.

With that said, there was a time I was having a similar problem, but we got lucky. At a star party, we ended up with two acquaintances set up right next to us. One had the C11, and one had the C8, both pretty much brand new from the telescope store. Both were well collimated by an expert. We ended up with both telescopes, pointed at the same targets (tried 5 of them) over a span of an hour, and used the same eyepiece to look thru them.

I went home, and pulled the trigger on the C8. to my relatively untrained eye (I'm of the bent, telescopes are indeed just long lenses for a camera), I could see no difference between them during our setup at the star party.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Steve Darden]
      #5966276 - 07/11/13 07:50 PM

Hi Steve. Yep, I have a standard C5, C6 and C8 currently. All three of those will be on the chopping block after I've picked up the new scope, more because I need the storage room than to offset the cost of the new scope. The thing with the C11, though, is that it'll mean two counteweights rather than one, and a little more volume taken up in cargo to boot.

I'm leaning (d), best of both worlds, as I also plan on picking up a CPC Deluxe 1100 for an extended trip next year or the next time they get discounted deeply.

Regards,

Jim


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966286 - 07/11/13 08:03 PM

I too went through the same thing... I was really torn between the Edge 9.25 and the Edge 11... in the end aperture won out and I bought the Edge 11 and I'm very happy with it. I bought it 2 days before the end of the last sale!

If you are stuck between the Edge 8 and the Edge 9.25 I would get the Edge 9.25. And then prepare to sell your C8 because you probably wont use it anymore.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: groz]
      #5966287 - 07/11/13 08:03 PM

If I wanted that much aperture (14"+) I certainly wouldn't take an SCT. Instead I'd just make due with my 16" f/5.1 Dob, and call it a day. I haven't met the C14 yet that could even come remotely close to a similarly sized or slightly larger premium Dob, and at that level the pricing on the Dob is actually lower than on the SCT. Smaller premium Dobs are considerably more costly than similar sized SCTs.

C14s defeat the purpose of the SCT IMO. They are large and heavy enough to be inconvenient to transport and mount, and compared to alternatives they are relatively expensive (unlike smaller SCTs which are cheap compared to premium alternatives). To me, once you go over 10" or 11" the advantages of the SCT, primarily compactness and easy mountatbility for its aperture, start to evaporate. I don't think I'd ever entertain a C14 unless I had a semi-permanent place to leave it mounted.

I'm leaning towards (d) to compare the two (standard C9.25 and Edge HD) and perhaps sending the one I like less packing for a refund before the trip.

Regards,

Jim


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Wmacky
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/24/07

Loc: Florida
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: groz]
      #5966300 - 07/11/13 08:17 PM

I just went through this. I bought the HD C8. It just has too much going for it. The only negatives were the SCT rear opening, and less light gathering. IF you could handle those 2 setbacks, the pluses are many.

1. Financially, the C8 is the best EdgeHD deal by far. With the sale, it's only a little more than the standard C8. What a deal! The others are a lot more $$$$ .

2. Amazing light gathering for such a small, and lightweight package. I keep hearing that the 9.25 weighs almost as much, and is almost as bulky to handle as the C11. I'd just go for the C11 in that case.

3. Widest field of view.

4. Less risk if you get a dud. I'd be very very unhappy with a 3 or 4 thousand dollar dud.The risk is real.


If you have the extra money to spent, I'd get a regular C11, and a EdgeHD 8.

Why? Because the C8 is the better Edge "deal", and I feel the C8 would make an easier to use imaging scope, so I'd rather it be the Edge version, and then use the C11 as a less expensive light bucket.

Edited by Wmacky (07/12/13 12:29 AM)


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Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966303 - 07/11/13 08:19 PM

If the C-11 is out (I'm loving mine!!!) then....keep it simple --
(b) Get the Edge HD C9.25!


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Wmacky]
      #5966308 - 07/11/13 08:22 PM

I'm kinda opposite to that. I don't want to own a lot of scopes. I really only want one SCT and one good APO or maybe a quad. If I could just have my Edge 11 and a Tak FSQ106 ED III I'd be a very happy camper!

I don't live in a very dark area sadly so I need a lot of light gathering. I viewed through the Edge 8 (which sold me on the flat field) but I can see a LOT more through the Edge 11, so that's what I got. The Edge 14 is amazing, but its HUGE and expensive so I got the biggest I could afford and handle by myself.

Everyone has different needs, wants and opinions. I'm just happy we have so many choices to suit our goals!


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Scott BeithAdministrator
SRF
*****

Reged: 11/26/03

Loc: Frederick, MD
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5966311 - 07/11/13 08:23 PM

b

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amicus sidera
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/14/11

Loc: East of the Sun, West of the M...
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #5966337 - 07/11/13 08:55 PM

(b).

Best combination of aperture, transportability and quality.

It's a pleasure helping you spend your money, Jim.



Fred


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966400 - 07/11/13 09:38 PM

b

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FeynmanFan
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: N Colo front range
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966409 - 07/11/13 09:44 PM

Sell the C5, C8. Keep the C6, which you've indicated before has good optics, and is quite portable. Buy the C9.25 Egde, and sell the eyepiece (for which I'm sure you have multiple replacements, Mr. Hooligan), and the diagonal. I sure wish I had your dilemma.

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crow
sage


Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: BC, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: tomcody]
      #5966428 - 07/11/13 09:59 PM

I'd go for the 8 Edge, you sound pretty dubious about the edge scopes in general. That being the case I'd go in small with as least to lose as possible.

This way you're not committing much financially. If it turns out ok, you've got a nice flat field, portable/lightweight bit of aperture to mess with.

Not quite win/win but as near as you'll get it.


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: crow]
      #5966475 - 07/11/13 10:35 PM

Go for B as you will look through someone's C9.25HD one day and say I shoulda.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: crow]
      #5966550 - 07/11/13 11:26 PM

I'd correct that. I'm not dubious about the Edge scopes. Rather, I'm dubious about Celestron SCTs (though less dubious about Celestron SCTs than Meade, but that's another story) and do not believe that there are any differences in QC or QA with the Edge scopes versus the regular ones. So I'm skeptical about Celestron's marketing claims (such as the white paper that contradicts itself of primary mirror focal ratios for some of the models) as well as "fan enthusiasm" which for every brand is generally not factually substantiated or based, so from my perspective I take exactly the same gamble with an Edge as a non-Edge SCT, and in my experience mod odds are about 50-50 in the quality lottery; mediocre vs. decent. Incidentally that 50-50 ratio also seems to apply to the new Celesrton mounts; CGEM, AVX and CGE Pro. Lots of duds mixed with the studs. I'd love to see Celestron raise prices 20% and put that money into improved quality management. But I digress.

In addition, I only purchase from retailers with 30-day no questions asked return/refund/exchange policies. So long as I dump a dud inside of 30 days, I'm taking no risk but the return shipping, really. My biggest error in the past has been buying SCTs during the wetter weather season and not being able to get them outside before warranty was my only recourse. Given that Celestron shipped it in the first place, I doubt my dissatisfaction with figure quality will be a recognized warranty issue.

In addition, I can afford any scope I want. However, when it comes to mass-produced, made in China goods, I would feel like a fool if I overpaid. I think the current pricing on the non-Edge scopes represents pretty fair value for the level of quality and consistency of the products. It's just a matter of time before the Edge scopes are priced similarly, IMO, so the current Edge sale, for me, is just Celestron giving back a little unwarrented margin. There's more they owe consumers and eventually they'll have to drop prices as they saturate the market at current prices. Recall that the exact same thing happened to ES with its 82s and 100s. In order to be able to unload what they're making, the "sales" got better and became virtually permanent pricing. I don't want to overpay not for economic reasons, but rather for "fairness" and "value" reasons based on my past experiences with this manufacturer.

With that in mind, I'm seeing a "crowd sourced" faveorite - option (b) C9.25 Edge HD - emerging. So I gotta ask the C9.25 Edge HD advocates; why they $2069 Edge HD version over the standard C9.25 SCT for $1279? Put another way, is the larger rear aperture and field flattening doublet worth another $800 (roughly the price of a C8 standard OTA or C6 with Nexstar mount, or any Ethos or ZAO II you want, etc.).

For the Edhe HD 8-incher advocates, I agree that the 8-inch has the fairest price right now of all the Edge scopes, likely because it's the highest volume production unit. I do like the compactness and mount versatility, gentler 2000mm focal length and reasonable value pricing. On the other hand, it is just 8-inches. 9.25 inches is available for just $100 more (albeit without the corrective doublet in the baffle). While the Edge C8 certainly is good relative value compared to the standard C8 (though at least one dealer has orange tube C8s from Nexstar SE bundles for $800), is it a good value compared to the C9.25 standard for just $100 more?

Lastly, there were a couple of votes for a standard C11. At $1750 it's arguably the best value of all. About half the price of its Edge sibling "on sale". $500 more than its standard C9.25 sibling or $320 *less* than the C9.25 Edge. I get that. And having had a C11 previously, I certainly could manage the OTA (it's just 27#; not much more than a big premium refractor). What opting for this would mean to me, though, is having one mount for the SCT and one for the refractor, such that if the CGE decides to succumb to RA and Dec port failure in the bush, the C11 goes back in its case for the rest of the trip. I *might* be able to shoehorn the 22# C9.25 on the alt-az mount in a pinch, though it would certainly be happier on the CGE. The C11? No way. Is the C11"s value enough to outweigh its lower convenience and greater "risk" on the mount front?

Lots of interesting ideas here.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5966570 - 07/11/13 11:35 PM

Wow, lots of strong "b" votes.

Regards,

Jim


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966582 - 07/11/13 11:42 PM

Have you looked through both? Surely someone has them in your area so you can do a side by side. I am well pleased with my C11HD. For my old eyes the flat field to the edge works better. BTW the most interesting astronomer should not need a scope. His eyes can gather the same amount of "light" at the same magnification as the hubble.

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Ron (Lubbock)
sage


Reged: 08/17/12

Loc: West TX
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5966646 - 07/12/13 12:27 AM

I just bought an Edge 11 HD. It kicks the *BLEEP* out of my old C8 (non-HD) both visually and photographically. The flat field was worth the price to me. I can transport it comfortably and get it on the mount comfortably, though I could see someone else finding it unwieldy. Here's another "b" vote, though I would have said to get the C11 HD if it were an option. FWIW, I did not buy the expensive, heavy focal reducer and I don't miss it.

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derangedhermit
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/07/09

Loc: USA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Ron (Lubbock)]
      #5966819 - 07/12/13 04:25 AM

If I owned a Mewlon 210 I'd put my money and time into getting a rock-solid collimation solution in place for it, and take it on my trip. What great telescopes - it's a shame if an example misses use under a dark sky because of an unaddressed issue. If you don't have the Takahashi collimating scope, that is supposed to make the job easier. I believe I would enjoy the images more from it than from any of the others you are discussing. You're taking another scope for wide-field views.

If I knew I was buying a C11, I wouldn't think about a C9.25; they aren't different enough to be interesting to compare.

Lee


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5966875 - 07/12/13 06:21 AM

Id go the STD 9.25 and an F6.3 FF/FR....
That would make the DSO observing a lot better by correcting the field, and lowering the F ratio!
My C8 Lives with it on it.. I've even used it on my C14.
At least I can clean it if the lenses get dirty.


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Hermie
sage
*****

Reged: 04/20/05

Loc: Cloudy HKG
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: orion61]
      #5966892 - 07/12/13 06:56 AM

Jim,

I don't have experience with these scopes, but I have been mulling a cat to complement my refractor - if I ever can get settled in one place. I've started to post several times, only to delete my suggestion. So I empathize with your dilemma.

There is just so much overlap with the scopes you have and that you are planning to get. I think that a C8 and C11 is a reasonable combination, but when you throw in the C9.25 and Mewlon it begins to be like an eyepiece collection!

Really, your decision comes down to: which of your existing scopes do you want to put in a head-to-head with an Edge? Your existing C8 (which you have said is nice) or the Mewlon (which should have some advantages over a C9.25).

I'd love to suggest that you get a C11 and just squeeze everything in your car, but you have said that won't work. If I understand your situation with the Mewlon, then I guess a C9.25 Edge is what you want in the cart.

Hermie


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Hermie]
      #5967049 - 07/12/13 09:44 AM

Jim,

I would go for the C925HD only. While I do like collecting scopes (can't say my wife shares that feeling ), the 925HD will be better than both the 8HD and the regular 925.

The guy I got my C8EdgeHD from replaced it with a C925EdgeHD. The 8 was beautiful, but the 925 did everything better (save for giving up a little absolute field due to the FL increase). And he had a TMB refractor as well and felt the 925 just could do more (DSO, planets).

I had my 8 Edge out last night and these things are just so nice to use. A 16T5 in the diagonal on M13 and it frames the cluster and the two bright field stars. And the stars are _perfect_ right to the field stop and all across the center.

I would say if you were looking for utmost portability in one scope, then it would be the C8Edge since it rides a CG5 class mount perfectly and can be moved all as a single package. I think the 925 would push this over the top a bit due to needing more counterweights and it taxing the mount a little more.

But since you are already dragging the bigger mount, go for it!

Clear skies!


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Paul Schroeder
super member
*****

Reged: 06/05/03

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: orion61]
      #5967113 - 07/12/13 10:16 AM

Quote:

Id go the STD 9.25 and an F6.3 FF/FR....
That would make the DSO observing a lot better by correcting the field, and lowering the F ratio!






It seems like you really want the aperture of the 9 1/4.

I'd second the above suggestion, with one potential addition. If you have 30 days to return the scope, why not both this combo (standard 9 1/4 + focal reducer) and an Edge 9 1/4? You could satisfy your curiosity whether the Edge is worth the money.

I'm sure a lot of people would find that to be an interesting comparison!

Paul


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5967178 - 07/12/13 10:53 AM

Quote:

I'd correct that. I'm not dubious about the Edge scopes. Rather, I'm dubious about Celestron SCTs




Your misapprehensions about the Edge scopes are misplaced. BUT...you are not sure which scope you want, and whether it should be a Celestron, so I'd say your best bet is don't buy anything right now. Get out to your local club, see if one of the members has one you can try.


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tomcody
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5967304 - 07/12/13 12:13 PM

Jim,
From what you have said, it seems the 14" is "too big" the 8" is "too small" and either the 9.25" or the 11" is just right depending on which mount you want to use it on? As you are talking about portability and smaller than the AP900 mount, I suggest that the 9.25" is what will keep you happy. I provides more aperture than the 8" and less weight than the 11". As for HD vs standard Ota's? I don't know what eyepieces you like to use but the HD should be more satisfying with wide-fields like the XW Delos and Naglers.
Just my two cents from reading your posts.
Rex
P.S. With your shopping cart indecision, for heaven's sakes, put a parental block on the shopping channel now!


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csrlice12
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: tomcody]
      #5967532 - 07/12/13 02:32 PM

e. Buy them all, observe from home, there's always next year...and look at the assortment of scopes you'll have to choose from!

Sorry....a homeless scope is a terrible site to see....


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Rand Barthel
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5967643 - 07/12/13 03:21 PM

I'm doing this same dance in my mind (no real dollars involved yet) because I plan to make my move next year. The dilemma is trying to balance aperture fever, portability, and a desire to at least fiddle around with AP in the future. If I were sure I would only ever want to do visual, I'd go for about a 12" truss-tube go-to dob. If I were sure I was mainly interested in AP, I'd go with the 8 Edge and use the cost difference between the 8 Edge and the 925 Edge to pay for AP gear. But if I am trying to cover all the bases with one scope, the 925 Edge seems to be the best all-rounder. Decisions, decisions!

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Bill Barlow
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Rand Barthel]
      #5967743 - 07/12/13 04:17 PM

Jim,

I do most of my observing using the on axis FOV, so the edge optics wouldn't be as high of a priority with me. I would then choose option C and save some money. But if you are into viewing the entire FOV, then get the edge optics. If money wasn't an issue, then try option D. Good luck with your choice.

Bill


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GeneT
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5967812 - 07/12/13 05:06 PM

(b)

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timps
sage


Reged: 02/24/13

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5967899 - 07/12/13 06:06 PM

I thought you didn't like SCT's?

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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5967982 - 07/12/13 07:07 PM

"If you don't have the Takahashi collimating scope, that is supposed to make the job easier."

I do have the collimating scope. It works with the bigger Mewlons with center spotted secondaries, not the 210 and 180 which do not, sadly. The problem I have with collimation is that when I received the scope from OPT it was FUBARed on the collimation front, but I didn't learn that until I set it up when the weather cleared two months after buying it. I collimated it with the stock screws, which are shockingly tights, and enjoyed it quite a lot from home. I was picking off the Pup three years ago when no one else in my club could. It does a great job keeping light where it belongs (when collimated). But then I started traveling with the scope. Every significant trip would result in having to collimate when I reached my destination. I grew tired of the stiff screws and the long tube, so I made the bad mistake of putting Bob's Knobs on it. They work great on SCTs. On Mewlons, though, not so much. They are just as tight and hard to turn as the stock screws, but you have less leverage with the knobs. Blisters and bloody skin on the knobs are guaranteed. A month ago I decided to put the stock screws back in. However, when I went to collimate it, I simply could not get things back in order. I now suspect that either my primary of secondary is decentered. In any event, love the optics and the elegant, thermally savvy design. Hate the aggravation. I'm pretty close to either sending it to Texas Nautical to let them figure out what the heck is wrong with the mirror retention system on the scope, or else selling it "as is" for a discount to someone who wants one but doesn't have the scratch to pay full pony. Life is too short to futz around with finicky gear IMO.

As for C9.25 and C11 not being different enough, I think that depends. The C9.25 will be an OTA and will be used on EQ mounts. The C11 would be a fork mounted scope. To me, even at exactly the same aperture there's a world of difference between an EQ mounted and fork mounted viewing experience. The reason for the CPC would not be the extra inch and change of aperture, but rather the simple, comfortable self-contained scope-mount combo. If the CPC Deluxes were on sale now, I'd probably be looking at one of those (9.25 of 11) instead. But, alas, only the EQ mounted and bare OTAs are getting the discounting love at the moment.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: orion61]
      #5967984 - 07/12/13 07:09 PM

Yep, I already have plenty of SCT accessories including the Celestron f/6.3 FF/FR. I do use it with my standard SCTs often.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: timps]
      #5968010 - 07/12/13 07:26 PM

I think you're confusing "not being an SCT fan boy" with "not liking SCTs". They are actually different. I like SCTs for the things that they do well and don't care for them for the things they do less well.

The one thing mid-aperture SCTs do better than anything else is provide significant aperture in a compact, easy to transport, easy to mount package at a moderate price. To achieve that convenience, they do compromise on other virtues.

For loaded travel where you want both wide field and deep magnitude reach capable of sharing a given mount, SCTs are the best option and the best value for pairing with a nice faster refractor. The two complement one another nicely.

I would never have an SCT as my only scope. But also, I would never be without at least one SCT for travel. Telescopes are tools. Different tools excel at different tasks.

I still haven't pushed "go to checkout", and the cart is currently empty. I'll bite the bullet when I get home.

Of course, if I could be less extreme in my selection of other gear for the trip (cameras, tents, shade structures, coolers, books, sleeping bags, electronic devices, etc., etc.) I could take more astronomy gear. It was so much simpler when I could eat freeze dried backpacking meals. Packing fresh food that requires on-site preparation takes up boatloads of space.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (07/12/13 07:29 PM)


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DaemonGPF
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968015 - 07/12/13 07:36 PM

Wait, I heard you struck oil. Buy BOTH!

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orion61

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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: DaemonGPF]
      #5968037 - 07/12/13 08:04 PM

Quote:

Wait, I heard you struck oil. Buy BOTH!



Banjo Ring... Come and listen to a story bout a man named Jim .......


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Hermie
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: orion61]
      #5968066 - 07/12/13 08:28 PM

Buy both....and a new vehicle!

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MikeBOKC
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Hermie]
      #5968269 - 07/12/13 11:01 PM

I could not help, perusing this thread, thinking of women I have seen in shoe stores trying on this and that and the other and spending two hours making up their minds . . . of course Jim does have a pink AT72 . . .

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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Hermie]
      #5968284 - 07/12/13 11:14 PM

Like this one?

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5909643/page...



- Jim


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Dunkstar
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968287 - 07/12/13 11:17 PM

I'd go for option e, bite the bullet and get the CPC Deluxe 11 now. Ditch the big EQ. It'll be a unique observing session, why compromise?

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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5968292 - 07/12/13 11:20 PM

There's a pattern here Mike. I have more shoes than my wife. And she doesn't have a small number of shoes. Oh, and I like to cook. And I eat quiche. I find most sports (other than soccer, rugby, Aussie football, Formula 1 and boxing) boring. Now you have me worried.



- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Dunkstar]
      #5968295 - 07/12/13 11:24 PM

I'd kick myself if it went on sale for $500 off a month after I bought it.

You know there will be a sale or price drop on the CPC Deluxe scopes in the near future.

- Jim


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Scott BeithAdministrator
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968299 - 07/12/13 11:27 PM

Jim,

You love refractors - pick the most "refractorish" option:


b


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Dunkstar
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968307 - 07/12/13 11:33 PM

I get that Jim, and the thrill of the chase and all but for $500 you have the solution. Aperture, no mounting issues. Just Edge 11 and dark skies

Oh and the Edge 11 ota price makes the CPC look a steal.

Edited by Dunkstar (07/12/13 11:34 PM)


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Scott Beith]
      #5968321 - 07/12/13 11:44 PM

Hmmm...actually the 9.25s have the biggest COs - 36%.

And natively of the standard SCTs the C9.25 standard SCTs have the flattest fields. In less need of correction than the rest?



- Jim


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hfjacinto
I think he's got it!
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Reged: 01/12/09

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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968333 - 07/12/13 11:51 PM

Just buy a scope.

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timps
sage


Reged: 02/24/13

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968353 - 07/13/13 12:13 AM

I'll buy a CPC 11 if you buy one.

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houser23
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Reged: 10/26/09

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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968392 - 07/13/13 12:52 AM

Quote:

In addition, I can afford any scope I want.




Soooooo, what's the problem?


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: houser23]
      #5968397 - 07/13/13 12:56 AM

I can't decide which scope I want!

- Jim


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SteveC
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: timps]
      #5968406 - 07/13/13 01:11 AM

Jim,

You're not behaving like "The Most Interesting Astronomer". Buy the 9.25HD and be done with it. I can't believe what I'm witnessing.


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SteveC
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5968799 - 07/13/13 10:42 AM

I wonder what The Most Indecisive Astromoner will waffle about this morning.

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Benjamin B
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: SteveC]
      #5968829 - 07/13/13 11:00 AM

I totalt understand what Jim is going thrue. I am in the same possision, and I follow this thred very carefully. I dont buy scope becouse of some hipe, but to value contra what you really will use the scope for. I think the jump in price from c8 to c9, 25 is not worth it if one is concidering jump in brightness, but if one is going to do astrophotography, that might be differrent if there are advantage regarding mechanical parts, like focuser and focal reducers.

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SteveC
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Benjamin B]
      #5968862 - 07/13/13 11:32 AM

Quote:

I totalt understand what Jim is going thrue. I am in the same possision, and I follow this thred very carefully. I dont buy scope becouse of some hipe, but to value contra what you really will use the scope for. I think the jump in price from c8 to c9, 25 is not worth it if one is concidering jump in brightness, but if one is going to do astrophotography, that might be differrent if there are advantage regarding mechanical parts, like focuser and focal reducers.




Well, parts are not simply just parts in the hands of The Most Interesting Astronomer In The Universe, they're a reflection of who he is. Who knows what that is at this point.


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Wmacky
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Benjamin B]
      #5968865 - 07/13/13 11:34 AM

I've never viewed through the 9.25, but are the images really that much better? I know every little bit helps when going after DSO's. but 1.25" seems so insignificant once you get up to this size range. Especially considering the sizable jump in price, weight, and bulkiness. To me it seems the 9.25 is a compromise scope between the great pricing, and portability of the C8, and the light gathering ability of the C11. A lot of people seem to be favoring it though.

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derangedhermit
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Wmacky]
      #5968877 - 07/13/13 11:45 AM

Quote:

[...]Especially considering the sizable jump in price, weight, and bulkiness. To me it seems the 9.25 is a compromise scope between the great pricing, and portability of the C8, and the light gathering ability of the C11. A lot of people seem to be favoring it though.



It's almost exactly halfway in between the other two in price, weight, and size - it is only two inches longer than the average of the c8 and c11. One person's compromise is another's "just right".


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orion61

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Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Wmacky]
      #5968878 - 07/13/13 11:48 AM

Get the Edge 9.25 You will never regret it and it will last you the rest of your Life.
One of the best Planetary CATS out there are the 7" Meade MAK's.. The 9.25 beat them. Everybody that owns one loves them. you never see them for sale used.. Just push the button..
Let us know how the trip goes..


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tomcody
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968880 - 07/13/13 11:50 AM

Quote:

I can't decide which scope I want!

- Jim



Jim perhaps this is just a symptom of too many scopes that overlap? If I remember correctly, last year you posted that you wanted to simplify things.
Maybe it would help to come up with an overall plan of which scopes that you want or need in your collection and what you can get rid of and see which new scope fits the plan?
Rex

Edited by tomcody (07/13/13 03:13 PM)


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Don Taylor
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Loc: South TEXAS
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5968940 - 07/13/13 12:43 PM

I can help with the Mewlon Jim: I'll take it off your hands for oh, say a hundred bucks......

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jrbarnett
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Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: derangedhermit]
      #5969300 - 07/13/13 04:56 PM

Yes in price and weight. No in size. The 9.25 is just 2" shorter than the 11. The 8 is 5" shorter than the 9.25.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: tomcody]
      #5969303 - 07/13/13 05:00 PM

Oh, I have a plan. I will sell off the C8, C5 and C6, and if the Mewlon if the scope I buy surpasses it.

I also have a slew of refractors to sell off, but that's another story.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5969760 - 07/13/13 10:59 PM

Okay, I just finished a "mock pack" of the vehicle. The CGE's Pelican 1650 case and ginormous tripod is a big space consumer. That has me leaning toward taking the Atlas rather than the CGE.

Were I to get one of the 9.25" OTAs, the question is this: will two 11# counterweights successfully counterbalance the 22# C9.25 OTA plus a 2" diagonal plus a largish eyepiece (35mm Panoptic, 31mm Nagler Type 5) on the Atlas?

The Atlas takes up only half the space that my CGE takes up in the vehicle, so if I go that route, the extra volume of a larger C9.25 OTA and case won't be a problem. If my two counterweights are sufficient, I'd be good to go.

Whacha think?

- Jim


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Dunkstar
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5969824 - 07/14/13 12:17 AM

Well within the load capacity of the Atlas. It'll happily take a C11, diagonal, 2# eyepiece and still balance with the bundled 2x 11# counterweights...heading toward the end of the shaft, but balanced is balanced. 9.25 should be no sweat.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Dunkstar]
      #5969859 - 07/14/13 12:54 AM

Thanks. Also I see Orion has a neat little bundle for the Atlas. You get the larger spreader with more eyepiece slots, a counterweight carrier that can hold three 11# counterweights, one spare 11# counterweight and a beefier replacement counterweight bar, for $199. I've always disliked the "rocking" of the retractable counterweight bar, want the larger eyepiece tray/spreader, would use the carrier, and with the third counterweight, be able to easily counterbalance loads up to the mount's payload capacity.

Still, I would never put a C11 on an Atlas. I didn't even like the way the Atlas carried my TEC 140. I could probably get used to a 9.25" SCT on an Atlas, but that would be my stability limit. I really like a dead-solid, no vibration experience when focusing setup.

Now that I'm getting comfortable with 9.25", the only question that remains is to Edge or not to Edge?

- Jim


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Dunkstar
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Loc: Under the sky
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5969909 - 07/14/13 02:13 AM

The upgraded counterweight bar looks nice with the third counterweight you should be able to balance higher up the bar, if that's your preference.

The C11 is comfortably within the capability of the mount, the 9.25 would be a breeze on that, shorter too than the TEC though the weight is mostly at one end

Edge or not? Buy both and review them If you like Nagler/Ethos class, just get the Edge.

Edited by Dunkstar (07/14/13 02:15 AM)


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Bill Barlow
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5969985 - 07/14/13 05:09 AM

Jim,

I have read many of your posts that you crave views through the edge optics, so why not get the edge C9.25 while the OTA is on sale? If it lives up to the hype, then maybe you could also sell the Mewlon 210 along with a few other cats you now own. Good luck..

Bill


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Benjamin B
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5970163 - 07/14/13 10:34 AM

Jim, I sure that you have sad it before, but whay do you want to have a celestron sct over a mewlon? Arent the mewlon a good scope?

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McUH
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Reged: 05/29/13

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5970171 - 07/14/13 10:40 AM

Quote:

the only question that remains is to Edge or not to Edge?




You said you can easily afford both, then just get the Edge. If you get standard C9, you will always doubt whether Edge would not do it better.

C9 standard has only few advantages - price (irrelevant for you), it is slightly lighter, and since it has no corrector (less glass surfaces) it might possibly deliver very slightly brighter images and maybe very slightly sharper on axis.
Edge, on the other hand, will be much better off axis, it is also better design mechanically - you have the vents that let it cool-down faster. You have mirror locks (relevant only if you plan also AP). You have big rear opening (same as C11 and C14, I think standard C9 has smaller one).
If price is really no issue, just get the Edge.


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Benjamin B
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: McUH]
      #5970408 - 07/14/13 01:42 PM

The bigger rear opening, what gain will that give?

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: McUH]
      #5970428 - 07/14/13 01:55 PM

On the other hand, if I get the Edge I'll always be wondering if I got suckered on the value front (I.e., did I give Celestron an $800 gift, succumbing to marketing hype surrounding two pieces of eyepiece glass stuffed into a baffle), and then in two years when standard SCTs are no more, and the 9.25 Edge HDs are priced at $1300 I'll have the privilege of kicking myself all over again on the value question. Coins always have two sides.

Note also that having resources and wanting value are not mutually exclusive. Some of the cheapest people I know are bloody filthy loaded. For the Edge to be the smart choice between the two, it has to be *worth* $800 (any Ethos) more than the standard no matter how fat your wallet. Is it? Remember, I'm not an imager.

- Jim


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Seiko4169
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5970433 - 07/14/13 01:58 PM

That's the real question Jim, is it indeed? Marketing is definitely in full swing with the Edge but the improvements are clearly there. The price increase justification for those changes though? For that I'm not so sure?

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Benjamin B]
      #5970435 - 07/14/13 02:00 PM

I intend to find out. My Mewlon is a wonderful scope with chronic collimation and, perhaps, secondary centering issues. Frustrating as much as delighting. SCTs are relatively cheap and stone-simple in comparison.

Lastly, on this most "American" of trips in the old west sense, an American brand, even with a Chinese soul, seems fitting.



- Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Seiko4169]
      #5970454 - 07/14/13 02:12 PM

It's a puzzler indeed. As you say, clearly the Edge variant has some valuable enhancements, including a flatter field, better thermal design (assuming the standard doesn't show up with vents; some have), and the C11 sized rear opening and big baffle, which are better for widest field low power eyepieces. But what are those enhancements really worth over the standard? I have the FF/FR, a 2" visual back adapter, and Lymax cooler already.

- Jim


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Seiko4169
sage


Reged: 07/04/09

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5970457 - 07/14/13 02:13 PM

Ha ha - can I just say Jim you are a terrible influence on these forums! You and your purchases cost us all a small fortune as you tempt us to follow suit!

Clear skies


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crow
sage


Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: BC, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5970501 - 07/14/13 02:37 PM

Playing devils advocate, I'm not sure the edge is the scope for you. This is from someone with a Tec140 on order, so I have no particular skin in the game. But with a couple of jam jar bottoms in the baffle and a predicted near forty percent price drop in a year or two you'll never be happy with it.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: crow]
      #5970519 - 07/14/13 02:47 PM

TEC 140. Hmm...I think I have one of those round here somewhere...

...

...oh, there it is!





- Jim


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5970570 - 07/14/13 03:34 PM

Jim, I'll be looking forward to your critique of which ever scope you end up buying...

Steve


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gunfighter48
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Reged: 03/18/13

Loc: Mill Creek, Washington
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: stevew]
      #5970944 - 07/14/13 06:22 PM

I started in astronomy in 1976 and have been in and out of the hobby 3 times. But I've always kept in touch by reading the astro magazines and the internet forms. I am now back in the hobby for as long as I am physically able to pack around my equipment.

The one thing that has been constant all these years is the reputation of the C9.25. These have had a superb reputation by the owners for all these decades. I don't remember the last time I read a bad review about the C9.25 optics. I have been able view thru a few of them over the years and they were fantastic scopes. Because of back problems I've never been able to own one but sure wished I could!!

I don't think you would be sorry by purchasing the 9.25 Edge. Quit worrying about the price/value issue, you'll forget about that once you get to observe with the 9.25. And you're wasting observing time with indecision.

Edited by gunfighter48 (07/14/13 06:25 PM)


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mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: gunfighter48]
      #5971017 - 07/14/13 07:07 PM

Its been interesting looking at these threads.....Ahw the search for the perfect scope.....lol..
I know as we all do how frustrating this can be...
I once bought a Meade 8" ACF and was exited about the optics,but sent it back to buy a AT8RC...great optics..

But missied the versatility of the CAT..options Flocal reducers reductions closed sealed tube...ect...Just think a cat is one of the most versetial scopes made..(IMHO)..
So I bought a standard C9.25 and fell in love.....BUT having used a flat field CAT 8"ACF....I longed for that VIEW..
So I wanted a C9.25 HD...(vents ,flat field,locks and great reviews...So went back and forth in the TRIGER BOX...
I ended Up with a new C11-HD..One of the reasons..is that if I bought That scope I could not get any appature fever
as it is the largest, lightest portable scope ....and easy to resell.....I just did not want that .........could of went bigger...I get older evey day and time is important...
Life is about the journey.....
So when I use my new C11-HD.....I have a good feeling that I did the right thing........Its the best potable scope I could ever want....(no more of those "can only be seen in 10" or larger comments in magazines for me)....LOL..

SATISFACTION is a KEY ISSUE in this process.....good luck
and we all wait for you'r First light review...
any of the C8,C9.25,C11 HD Edges scope will be a joy of using...and soo easy to resell..And remember that most good
dealers have at least a 30 Day satisfaction return so get
it (C11 or C9.25 Edge ) while on sale and return it
if your not nuts over it and get the other while you can.


PS...The others reading this thread will be looking for a "Slightly used Edge"" for a deal...lol
at most might cost shipping one way ($50)

Edited by mega256 (07/14/13 07:12 PM)


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MikeBOKC
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Reged: 05/10/10

Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: mega256]
      #5971134 - 07/14/13 08:13 PM

Like a lot of folks here I like to scan the classifieds just to see what is being offered. They also tend to tell a story . . . a few scopes hardly ever show up there, which tells me that people who own them are just loathe to let them go this side of bankruptcy desperation. You don't see many AP or TEC refractors for sale, and in SCTs I personally rarely see a 9.25 OTA or any Edge OTAs for sale. That tells me that people who have them tend to hang onto them, and that implies that they are darn good scopes.

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Benjamin B
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: MikeBOKC]
      #5971179 - 07/14/13 08:57 PM

I do see quite some edge telescopes every week on astromart. Often c8 and c11. I do also think that c9, 25 is not that popular as the c11 which is a big seller when it comes to large telescopes.

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mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Benjamin B]
      #5971241 - 07/14/13 09:42 PM

I did a sort for one year on hd and edge...on am
There were only a few otas.....but there is now a great 1 yo 8" edge at 875 shipped....hummmm..

There were also few scopes with mounts ,,,but that's it...If you look close at the list a lot of them are "lookin for ads..

They seam to sell fast

Edited by mega256 (07/14/13 09:43 PM)


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crow
sage


Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: BC, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Benjamin B]
      #5971254 - 07/14/13 09:51 PM

Jim, yeah I thought you had a Tec. Very nice. does it have the F/T or Tec focuser?

I'm beginning to understand this whole shopping cart thing, I'm in the middle of buying a dslr. So far its been Nikon, Canon, Nikon, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Canon etc etc.

Mega, that was my thinking with 1100 edge exactly. Mine isn't going anywhere.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: crow]
      #5971467 - 07/14/13 11:42 PM

Mine has the FT focuser. It's S/N 446. I think that was two or three runs before TEC started making its own focusers. For years my adventure camera has been an Olympus E420 micro 4/3rds DSLR. I chose it primarily for the price and compactness for backpacking/bouldering. It has taken a licking and is still ticking, but has gotten somewhat long of tooth by current standards. I was looking to refresh my DSLR, and a funny thing happened. I accidentally read a few reviews of the new class of enthusiast point and shoots; cameras like the Sony RX100, Olympus YZ-2, etc. The bang for per cubic centimeter of volume is insane. But in keeping with the cheap bastahd in me, I shopped them for value. One of the stalest if these prosumer point and shoots was the Panasonic Lumix LX7. A year and a half ago it was a $600 camera. I bought one new for just under $300. For my intended use, I'm ecstatic.

I have big plans for a thoroughly illustrated article covering this trip, complete with dozens of images from the entire OFLI astro-crew. I suspect the itty-bitty Panasonic will more than hold its own. I'm still learning the features though. It's loaded. My most immediate project for the camera is to figure out the panorama mode so that I can do my own custom realistic horizons for Sky Safari.

But I digress. I'm still wrestling with the "which 9.25" question. The best SCT I've ever looked through is CNer Varmint's C9.25 (an older made in USA model). I've never seen a bad one, in fact. Also, as you say, of the six apertures, the 9.25 alone has a "hallowed" reputation. I'm starting to convince myself that I can't go wrong with either C9.25.

Also, I'm planning on getting a CPC-1100 Deluxe next year sometime as my portable observatory for a 2 week backcountry extravaganza during my upcoming sabbatical (or the next time the CPC Deluxes go on sale), so eventually I'll enjoy the Edge enhancements even if I go standard SCT for this trip.

I'm gonna pick one *before* I go to bed tonight...



Regards,

Jim


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fjs
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 03/25/13

Loc: Olympic Peninsula, USA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5971560 - 07/15/13 01:31 AM

Quote:

I'm gonna pick one *before* I go to bed tonight...



Regards,

Jim




Just don't bash your head on the keyboard.


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Dunkstar
super member


Reged: 03/26/12

Loc: Under the sky
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5971617 - 07/15/13 02:54 AM

The C9.25 is only believed to be hallowed because it gets posted and re-posted as such it just happens to sit in the sweet spot between the C8 and C11...most really want more than a C8 but don't like the all the noise about mirror shift from the C11, and think it's bigger than it really is, which isn't all that much bigger than the C9.25.

$800 for the Edge is a big pocketful of change


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crow
sage


Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: BC, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Dunkstar]
      #5971928 - 07/15/13 09:56 AM

Jim, The Panasonics look really good. I've a big need for video as well as photo for a current project and in that respect they probably beat out the canons. The GH3 is very impressive. I've always had a soft spot for Nikon gear though and the 7100 looks really good but mostly for photo work I guess. The Nikons have a slightly clunky video mode although the quality is there for sure.

I need to sit down and narrow it down, there are a lot of good options out there at the moment which makes it tough. The new Canon looks interesting also.

The weird thing is I'm making a way bigger deal over a 1-2k camera than I ever did purchasing the the 3 grand Edge. I kind of like the jam jar bottoms in the baffle.


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: crow]
      #5971939 - 07/15/13 10:05 AM

Drum Rollll.......So which is it?

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mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: orion61]
      #5971950 - 07/15/13 10:13 AM

Well..............?





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McUH
member


Reged: 05/29/13

Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5972128 - 07/15/13 12:07 PM

Quote:

then in two years when standard SCTs are no more, and the 9.25 Edge HDs are priced at $1300 I'll have the privilege of kicking myself all over again on the value question.




True, but with this attitude you will never buy anything ! My computer was more expensive than the Edge and I know it will need replacement after 4 years. At least the scope will perform equally well even if the price drops and it should be useful for many many years to come.

Quote:

it has to be *worth* $800 (any Ethos) more




This is individual and only you can decide for yourself. I'm visual only and for me Edge was worth it for C9. On the other hand, for me the Ethos is not worth the increase over decent $150-$200 eyepiece. However, if you already have Ethos, then you have one more strong point towards the Edge - for extra wide eyepieces you should choose a scope that can match theirs FOV in performance.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: McUH]
      #5972139 - 07/15/13 12:19 PM

"True, but with this attitude you will never buy anything!"

That is a non-sequitur. What it actually means is that I will not buy anything *new*; I won't be an early adopter and instead will but goods that have been out for awhile and whose prices have surrendered the hype-driven premium that surrounds a new product.

The best values are usually to be had with established products that have been superseded in the consuming public's short attention span by bright new objects.

But as it turns out I did buy the "new". I went for the Edge HD C9.25, added an Astrozap passive dew shade for now (the trip will be very dry) and also a Feathertouch Microfocuser. I'll need a dew heater strip eventually, too. I already have a C9.25 Pacific Design padded soft case, and the 2.7" Astro-Physics SCT visual back. I also ordered the new Orion Atlas upgrade kit (CW carrier, larger eyepiece tray, beefier CW shaft and extra 11# CW) but it's on pre-order and is projected to ship on August 13th. It may or may not arrive in time for the trip as a result. When I get back, I also plan on refreshing my Atlas. Sell my well-used 7-year old unit and replace it with a new one. My Atlas has never been sick a day in its life. Club mates with CGEMs have had ongoing problems. The Atlas may not be *NEW* but to me, it's the best value in mid capacity mounts. Though it might be cool to fetch one of the white Sky-Watcher versions out of Canada for something less common.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. This did turn out to be a "crowd-sourced" purchase.

Regards,

Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (07/15/13 12:26 PM)


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WesC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/06/13

Loc: La Crescenta, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5972187 - 07/15/13 12:54 PM

Ah! You decided! I think you'll be happy with that choice!

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: WesC]
      #5972426 - 07/15/13 02:42 PM

Two things clinched it. The purported extra time taken centering the corrector to ensure that Fastar on the Edge scopes actually works as intended, and the bigger rear aperture/baffle allowing me to use my A-P 2.7" adapter and minimize vignetting using wide field 2" eyepieces and a 2" diagonal.

I think I'll be pretty happy too, though I suspect the first time a dust devil engulfs the scope, I'll be wishing it was the cheaper standard C9.25.

- Jim


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mega256
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: N of Tampa
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5972463 - 07/15/13 02:56 PM

Hey good for u...enjoy...
It will be interesting to read your adventure..


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Gord
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/06/04

Loc: Toronto, ON, Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: mega256]
      #5972536 - 07/15/13 03:39 PM

Jim, good choice (I think)! If it ends up being like a lot (myself included...) got, I think you are going to like it. It is quite amazing to see the entire field look perfect. Perfect little airy disks everywhere!

Clear skies,


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mskillen
member
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Reged: 06/07/13

Loc: Maryland
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Gord]
      #5972797 - 07/15/13 05:48 PM

Congratulations Jim, glad you figured it out =)
I would like to hear what you think of it after you have had it out for a test run.


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Whichwayisnorth
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Reged: 07/04/11

Loc: Southern California
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: mskillen]
      #5972821 - 07/15/13 06:09 PM

I was a day late on this thread. I was going to suggest the 8"EdgeHD. I have one with the AVX mount and fully assembled with weights, cameras, it is so light I can pick it up and carry it. Makes grab and go a reality for me.

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mattz
professor emeritus
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Reged: 12/03/06

Loc: Where is Rescue CA?
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5972889 - 07/15/13 06:43 PM

Always go with quality in this type of decision. (b)

And PM me when you want to sell the C6...

And have fun!

Edited by mattz (07/15/13 06:44 PM)


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mattz
professor emeritus
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Reged: 12/03/06

Loc: Where is Rescue CA?
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: mattz]
      #5972895 - 07/15/13 06:46 PM

Ah, I see you took my advice before I even gave it! Very good. Enjoy the new scope.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Whichwayisnorth]
      #5972948 - 07/15/13 07:10 PM

Yep. If the C9.25 Edge HD experiment goes well this trip, I'll probably replace the C8 with a C8 Edge for grab & go on the Nexstar SE, CG5 and manual alt-az mounts.

Something Ed Moreno said on another thread resonated - get the biggest scope you can manage. I can manage the C9.25 and astronomy and non-astronomy gear because it can tolerate a smaller mount than larger aperture options, and I am a bit space constrained this trip. (Okay, okay, I'm taking three coolers, 58qt, 70qt and 82qt, so I've traded some aperture in exchange for extra luxury - so sue me. I am trying something new this trip. All fresh foods, no freeze dried, and am testing out something I've read about but never actually done. I'm making one of the coolers into a deep-freeze using dry ice and blue ice bottles. 40-50 pounds of dry ice in a 6-day cooler with 12-16 large blue ice bottles supposedly will let me use blue ice to keep the other coolers cold and even re-freeze thawed blue ice bottles for 7 or 8 days. We'll see.).

IMO the C8 is clearly the best value of all of the Edge HDs relative to the price of its non-Edge sibling; only a $340 delta versus $800 for the 9.25 and much more for the others.

- Jim


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stevew
Now I've done it


Reged: 03/03/06

Loc: British Columbia Canada
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5973276 - 07/15/13 10:52 PM

Jim, your the only guy I know that needs a new scope every time you do a road trip to an observing site....

Congrats on the decision..

Steve


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SteveC
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Reged: 06/15/06

Loc: Sunshine State & Ocean State
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5973334 - 07/15/13 11:33 PM

Don't forget the toilet paper, Jim, and a corkscrew/bottle opener. It's the little things that matter.

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: stevew]
      #5973363 - 07/16/13 12:04 AM

Y'know, the last two epic dark sky trips, I've done just that (picked up a new OTA just for the trip). Last year it was a clearance C8 orange tube standard for $799. This year, an on sale C9.25 Edge HD. At this rate, I won't be able to afford the gas next year. Maybe I'll resort to a "staycation" and use, well, a "dirty", "used" scope or something.

Regards,

Jim


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Dunkstar
super member


Reged: 03/26/12

Loc: Under the sky
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5973370 - 07/16/13 12:07 AM

Congrats on your purchase, hope you get a good one

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: SteveC]
      #5973375 - 07/16/13 12:11 AM

My particular flavor of OCD requires "redundancy". Whenever I do one of these trips, I have a main and a backup for every major system. Two stoves, at least two coolers, two lanterns, two water containers, two pots, two mugs, four cocktail glasses, two cocktail shakers, double the number of meals as are necessary to the number of days, etc.

So I guess I'll take two pieces of toilet paper rather than just one. Of course, my backup plan was to just hold it for a week.

- Jim


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Stew57
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/03/09

Loc: Silsbee Texas
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5973670 - 07/16/13 07:50 AM

Are we talking the shopping cart dance or some other my kids used to do?

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George Methvin
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/30/06

Loc: Central Texas
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5973932 - 07/16/13 11:22 AM

LOL yea I just got a windfall of $4000 dollar so I put a new hottub in my shopping cart LOL it will be here in three weeks... can't wait. Sorry folks I could have bought a new SCT but I already have a great Meade 10 LX200 classic so no need for a new scope. All i need now is a clear night sky a bottle of Jack Daniel and a new Hottub to sit in and just gaze up at the stars. LOL clear sky.

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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5973937 - 07/16/13 11:24 AM

Congrats!

BTW the more likely scenario than the EdgeHD prices coming down is, the regular C9.25 prices going up.


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Bill Barlow
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Reged: 12/03/07

Loc: Overland Park KS
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5974621 - 07/16/13 05:03 PM

Where did you purchase the Edge C9.25 from? Will be interested to hear your impressions after getting to visually use the scope.

Bill


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Bill Barlow]
      #5974911 - 07/16/13 07:58 PM

This time around I went with Highpoint Scientific. They had it in stock with free shipping and no sales tax. I source scopes from a bunch of vendors though; Astronomics, OPT, Agena, Orion, Highpoint, Handson, Anacortes, Stellarvue, etc. Key for me is whether the dealer has what I want *in stock*. Highpoint shipped within two hours of me placing my order. Gotta love it.

- Jim


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ewave
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 05/16/09

Loc: northwest NJ
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5975052 - 07/16/13 09:28 PM

Jim
Congrats on a fine SCT. I know I've mentioned this before, but my C9.25 Edge bested my ex CPC-11 on planets, yes, even on axis. For some reason, my older C11 on the planets was very bright and washed out, and lacking detail. I have the AP adapter from my older C11 and works great which I use with a 2" nosepiece refractor style diagonal (GSO Quartz). Don't worry about hitting the field flattener corrector lens in a similar configuration.

Also nice choice of vendor. Strangely enough, I'll be heading to HP Scientific this Saturday to check out the VX mount (and some more Delos EPs), which also happens to be on sale. I already have the CGEM, but was looking for something lighter, just for visual to use with my refractor or SCT. Do you think the VX mount is a good match for the C9.25 edge for visual?

Anyway, I hope your sample is as good as mine.

Clear skies


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: ewave]
      #5975314 - 07/17/13 12:26 AM

Thanks Sean.

Say hi for me. I buy stuff from them all the time. They're great.

I think the VX will work with the C9.25 (after all, they sell the C9.25 on the VX as a bundle), but I don't think it's an optimal mount for that purpose. I'd feel a lot better with the scope on at least an Atlas of CGEM class mount.

Also, check out the clearance CG5-GTs while you're there. About the same capacity as the VX, but only $549. If you think you could live with the C9.25 on the VX, you likely would also do just as well on the CG5. Just a thought.

In any case, good luck.

- Jim


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SteveC
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5975735 - 07/17/13 10:43 AM

Quote:

Thanks Sean.

Say hi for me. I buy stuff from them all the time. They're great.

I think the VX will work with the C9.25 (after all, they sell the C9.25 on the VX as a bundle), but I don't think it's an optimal mount for that purpose. I'd feel a lot better with the scope on at least an Atlas of CGEM class mount.

Also, check out the clearance CG5-GTs while you're there. About the same capacity as the VX, but only $549. If you think you could live with the C9.25 on the VX, you likely would also do just as well on the CG5. Just a thought.

In any case, good luck.

- Jim




I had my I-M 7" Mak on CG5 gt and I felt that the mount was at it's limit and a bit shaky. I suspect someone may discover the same with a C9.25 mounted.

I bought a CGEM a few weeks ago for the 7" Mak to be used in FL, where I believe the weather there will better suit the Mak's performance. I'm thinking that any C9.25 owner is going to eventually upgrade to a CGEM class mount anyway, perhaps it's wise to start out with one.


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Mariner@sg
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Reged: 06/28/12

Loc: Little Red Dot
Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: SteveC]
      #5977097 - 07/18/13 12:17 AM

Now, back to the dance. Is it a precursor for clouds to start gathering?

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azure1961p
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: Stew57]
      #5977352 - 07/18/13 07:23 AM

I didn't read the thread in full Jim, but Dave Knosley saw the central star if M57 with his 9.25. I'm not sure that'd be possible with the 8". That IS a nice thing to consider. If personally go for the 9.25 - with your money of course

Pete


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jrbarnett
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Re: I'm doing the "shopping cart dance"... new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5977646 - 07/18/13 10:43 AM

Yeah,but that's David. He's an extreme amateur. Spends all kinds of time dark adapting to the Nth degree, has cybernetic optical cortex implants, knows a Baader OIII from a Lumicon OIII just be smell. An ordinary astronomer like me, who is bound to get blasted with unshielded cell phone light at least once or twice a session, doesn't expect to see the M57 central star in either an 8" or 9.25". The central star is magnitude 15. The magnitude reach of a 9.25" is just 0.4 magnitudes deeper than an 8". I think nailing it in anything under ~12" is a major accomplishment. I'm ecstaic when I spy it in a 16-incher.

The 9.25 will see more mundane duty this September picking through the myriad treasures of Scorpius and Sagittarius. Which suggests a name for the instrument - "Smaug".

- Jim


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