John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
Looks like I'm the first to post this. Orion just released their '1.2' in their product countdown. $1800 adaptive Optics guider. Very interesting, but what's even MORE interesting is the greyed out box that's attached to it when you zoom in. Orion Parsec 8300c Astronomical Imaging Camera. Looks like maybe they're coming out with a regulated CCD???
Link Here
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
Edited by John Wunderlin (10/30/09 02:36 PM)
|
BWAZ
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/21/05
Posts: 590
Loc: CA
|
|
I noticed that too. I'm more into the adaptive guider which functions like an image stabilizer to me. It's interesting to see if works as the promise.
Also, I bet the "#1" new product from Orion must be the new 8300C CCD camera.
--------------------
APO-aholic.
|
fetoma
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/26/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: NW Ohio
|
|
I'd pay the extra $96 and get the Starlight Xpress AO unit. They are also coming out with a new 8300 chipped camera.
--------------------
Frank in NW Ohio
Vixen CF VC200L and R200SS
Meade SN-10
Celestron 9.25" SCT
Meade 8" f/6.3 SCT
Intes-Micro M73
Stellarvue 80/480 LOMO Triplet
Takahashi FS-60C
Celestron CGE
QHY8 and SXV-H16
www.jerseydevilastronomy.com
|
DugDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 1260
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
WoW!
That's exciting news to hear about an Orion 8300 Camera!
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro V1.
EON 120, EON 72, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
http://myastroimages.com
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
I just saw the AO guider here at the AIC. Pretty neat looking unit. Didn't see a new camera, though. I'll ask them about it tomorrow.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
DugDog
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/19/07
Posts: 1260
Loc: Temecula, Ca. USA
|
|
Quote:
I just saw the AO guider here at the AIC. Pretty neat looking unit. Didn't see a new camera, though. I'll ask them about it tomorrow.
David
That would be great, get all the info you can, and report back!
Thanks!
--------------------
Orion StarShoot Pro V1.
EON 120, EON 72, and 80MM F11.4 Guide Scope.
Atlas Mount.
Celestron CPC 800 XLT
http://myastroimages.com
|
RBA
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/03/08
Posts: 540
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
|
|
For us "big chip" owners, almost nothing Orion makes is useful, except for the guiding unit (both my guidescope and guide ccd are from Orion). Everything AP related stops at the APS size 
--------------------
DeepSkyColors.com
Henry Coe State Park, CA
EM400 + FSQ106EDX + C9.25 + STL11K + Canon 40D mod. + patience and coffee
New picture alert: By email, RSS
|
Jason Freeland
sage
Reged: 05/28/04
Posts: 384
Loc: Warr Acres, OK
|
|
The ad says that it adds in focus. Does the Starlight Express version also? It would be one thing in the Orions favor if the SE one doesn't.
--------------------
CF C8XLT
AT66 ED
AS-GT
|
bill w
Postmaster
Reged: 03/26/05
Posts: 6597
Loc: southern california
|
|
Quote:
The ad says that it adds in focus. Does the Starlight Express version also? It would be one thing in the Orions favor if the SE one doesn't.
the link at the top of this thread says it requires "only 90mm of inward focus travel", but "you can add up to 30mm worth of accessories, such as a filter wheel, to the SteadyStar without adding to the total backfocus"
the total in focus of the SX is 64 mm, so SX adds less without accessories, 4 mm more if you add 30 mm of accessories.
of course most of us are using these on catadioptrics with a moving mirror so it doesn't matter that much, unless you need to clear a fork mount.
--------------------
-bill w
nexstar 8 GPS
canon 300D, Toucam Pro II
SXV-H9C, H9, SX Exview autoguider, SX-AO
FS 102 (OLV), FS60 CSV, 8" LX200R, G 11
http://astro.whwiii.net/
image processing monitor calibrated to just differentiate darkest boxes:
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
I hope the 'c' in 8300c stands for cooling and not color...
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
fetoma
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/26/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: NW Ohio
|
|
I'll bet it's color with maybe a mono at a later date. Orion likes to keep it simple for beginners it seems.
--------------------
Frank in NW Ohio
Vixen CF VC200L and R200SS
Meade SN-10
Celestron 9.25" SCT
Meade 8" f/6.3 SCT
Intes-Micro M73
Stellarvue 80/480 LOMO Triplet
Takahashi FS-60C
Celestron CGE
QHY8 and SXV-H16
www.jerseydevilastronomy.com
|
SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
|
|
I wonder what it will cost... im definitely interested
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
I saw the prototype this morning. About $2800 and it's coming in OSC and mono. It has controlled cooling which is new for Orion. It's a compact unit. It sorta' looks like a cross between a QHY8 and a QSI style camera. It was designed to be able to work with the Hyperstar. Pretty neat. Can't wait to read the first reviews! Again, I'll try to post some pictures when I get home.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
|
|
Wow thats more expensive than i would have thought. especially when you can get a Qhy9 for 2500...
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
2 more announcements. Bisque is building a smaller version of the ME that will be rated at 90lbs. Pretty neat looking mount according to the drawings.
And now for those that have been looking for a nice 8300 chip based camera. SBIG announced a new/old 8300 for $1995. What? That's where the new/old comes in. SBIG is packaging it in the old ST402 body. This will be a big seller, I'm sure.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
|
|
Quote:
And now for those that have been looking for a nice 8300 chip based camera. SBIG announced a new/old 8300 for $1995. What? That's where the new/old comes in. SBIG is packaging it in the old ST402 body. This will be a big seller, I'm sure.
I cant wait for this. if it comes out im definitely getting on the list
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
mnaf
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
|
Hi Dave,
Bummer - Looks like I missed a couple of the announcements. Hopefully they'll still be there tomorrow morning.
That was a lot of fun and it was a pleasure meeting you.
Have a safe trip home.
--------------------
~Mike
AP Mach1GTO
Orion 8", AT66ED, Tak. FS-60CSV
Discovery 80mm refractor
Meade LPI, DSI Pro, DSI Pro II, SXV-H9
|
jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6764
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
|
|
I was looking at the Kodak spec sheet on the 8300CE and it looks like the Bayer filters are not IR blocking. I wonder if that has implications for ballancing the color if you're trying to push the red response. An IR blocking filter with a fairly sharp cutoff would be handy to avoid cross-talk between the colors in the near IR.
--------------------
-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
And now for those that have been looking for a nice 8300 chip based camera. SBIG announced a new/old 8300 for $1995. What? That's where the new/old comes in. SBIG is packaging it in the old ST402 body. This will be a big seller, I'm sure.
I cant wait for this. if it comes out im definitely getting on the list
It's not if, it's when. They are shooting for delivery some time in December.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
Quote:
Hi Dave,
Bummer - Looks like I missed a couple of the announcements. Hopefully they'll still be there tomorrow morning.
That was a lot of fun and it was a pleasure meeting you.
Have a safe trip home.
Hey Mike...the founding sponsors gave a presentation and that's when the announcements came.
It was a pleasure meeting up. I'm already planning to come back next year. Hopefully, the travel won't be as convoluted as it was this year.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
fetoma
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/26/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: NW Ohio
|
|
Gotta love the competition with these companies, and the new technology coming out. The smaller Paramount ME has me excited as well as the 8300 camera choices. Looks like everyone finally jumped on the 8300 bandwagon!
--------------------
Frank in NW Ohio
Vixen CF VC200L and R200SS
Meade SN-10
Celestron 9.25" SCT
Meade 8" f/6.3 SCT
Intes-Micro M73
Stellarvue 80/480 LOMO Triplet
Takahashi FS-60C
Celestron CGE
QHY8 and SXV-H16
www.jerseydevilastronomy.com
|
Gus_Smedstad
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 1154
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
|
|
Quote:
the link at the top of this thread says it requires "only 90mm of inward focus travel", but "you can add up to 30mm worth of accessories, such as a filter wheel, to the SteadyStar without adding to the total backfocus"
I'm unclear how that works, but Newt owners are pretty much out in the cold anyway. I have a whopping 14mm of inward focus available, even with a Moonlight low-profile focuser and the 1" spacer block removed.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad image gallery
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Celestron Onyx 80EDF (guiding / widefields).
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
QHY8
Philips SPC900NC
|
fetoma
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/26/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: NW Ohio
|
|
I don't think you would want to use it with a newt Gus, more so an SCT.
--------------------
Frank in NW Ohio
Vixen CF VC200L and R200SS
Meade SN-10
Celestron 9.25" SCT
Meade 8" f/6.3 SCT
Intes-Micro M73
Stellarvue 80/480 LOMO Triplet
Takahashi FS-60C
Celestron CGE
QHY8 and SXV-H16
www.jerseydevilastronomy.com
|
Gus_Smedstad
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 1154
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
|
|
Why in particular? I'm not clear how the device prefers one type of optic over another, other than the inward focus issues.
Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of leery of off-axis guide solutions anyway. Mainly because it's my understanding that finding a guide star can be a PITA. I've gotten used to the convenience not hunting, after I switched to the combination of SSAG, 0.5x reducer, and 500mm f/6.25 scope.
On the other hand, I had so many discarded frames from my last imaging session that improving my tracking issues looks very attractive.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad image gallery
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Celestron Onyx 80EDF (guiding / widefields).
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
QHY8
Philips SPC900NC
|
nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 2501
Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
|
|
Very cool info on this thread!!!
I know one thing is for sure.I WILL be on the waiting list for the NEW/old: SBIG ST-8300ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I owned the ST402ME and loved it.The cooling,the sensitivity(which,I do know the 8300 will lack a little bit there,who cares?!!),and everything right out of the box worked so well,it gave me a sense of what a real astro imager must feel like with "Pro" equipment.
I think it was a couple years ago that the smaller ST bodies had a newer/enhanced cooling system included that would easily cool at 30degC below ambient and only be running at ~65-75% at my home in muggy Central Florida...
The TINY ST402 is $1695!!!!!!(With class 1 and FW/filters installed,which I had) .For only $300 more you will be able to get the HUGE(comparatively) sensor.
The only thing that would make it sweeter would be a small FW inside that could come as an option.Since with this cam one would HAVE to buy a 2" filter set and wheel...it will still be a pretty costly system..
IMHO I would strongly recommend the ST402/1603/3200 bodies with the enhanced cooling package.
Anyways,David thanks for all the great info!!!!
Cant wait for more..
CS!
--------------------
Brent Oliver
WO-66SD*WO-Megrez102ED-Special Edition*Super C8 Plus*
CGE Pier-Mounted
Some Cameras,some Filters
HyperCams&MODS
My Gallery
|
David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8683
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
|
|
Quote:
Why in particular? I'm not clear how the device prefers one type of optic over another, other than the inward focus issues.
Though to be perfectly honest, I'm kind of leery of off-axis guide solutions anyway. Mainly because it's my understanding that finding a guide star can be a PITA. I've gotten used to the convenience not hunting, after I switched to the combination of SSAG, 0.5x reducer, and 500mm f/6.25 scope.
On the other hand, I had so many discarded frames from my last imaging session that improving my tracking issues looks very attractive.
- Gus
Hey Gus...I'm in your camp being concerned about finding a guide star with that small pick off prism. But the majority opinion at the AIC was for off axis guiding if at all possible. As a matter of fact, this is exactly how the Orion A/O works. Orion had the A/O set up with, you guessed it, the SSAG. I'm looking forward to the reviews from the various publications and especially some of CN's testers.
David
--------------------
Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
|
pawinemaker
member
Reged: 08/12/09
Posts: 26
Loc: SW Pennsylvania
|
|
Looks like Orion just posted it on their website. It's in mono as well as color.
--------------------
The surest way to invite bad viewing weather is to order new hardware.
|
ScottD
super member
Reged: 04/22/07
Posts: 194
Loc: Atlanta, GA
|
|
For anyone that hasn't already seen the SBIG version...
http://www.astrophotoinsight.com/content/sbig-announced-sr-8300-aic-2009
--------------------
Celestron CPC925
Celestron F/6.3 Focal Reducer
Feathertouch Focuser
Losmandy Counterbalance
William Optics SZ66 SD APO w/ ADM Rings
William Optics 0.8 Focal Reducer
Canon XSi - Self Modded
Orion StarShoot Autoguider
Philips SPC900
Orion 2" Filter Wheel
Hardin 12" F/5 Dob
|
mnaf
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
|
I saw that.
I thought the Parsec was going to be they're #1 product in the 'new product countdown'.
I wonder what #1 will be.....
--------------------
~Mike
AP Mach1GTO
Orion 8", AT66ED, Tak. FS-60CSV
Discovery 80mm refractor
Meade LPI, DSI Pro, DSI Pro II, SXV-H9
|
BlueGrass
member
Reged: 07/25/09
Posts: 85
Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
|
|
Perhaps a new mount? The Atlas has been around for quite awhile and Orion is due for an upgrade to keep up with the Celestron 'Jones'... 
... I've been looking to upgrade and get a reasonable OSC or mono CCD and guess I'll have to wait now to see the reviews.
Orion shows availability as Feb 2010... too late for Santa....
Edited by BlueGrass (11/02/09 10:04 PM)
|
ZMass
sage
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 269
|
|
I'm trying to wrap my head around the SBIG being $900 less than the Orion. Way to shake things up!
--------------------
-Zeke Mass
Encinitas, CA
6" Custom Newt on CG5
CCD Labs Q285M (Qhy2 Pro)
ST-80 guide-scope with DSI Pro
|
AlexN
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/09/08
Posts: 979
Loc: Brisbane - Australia
|
|
The SBIG AO unit only works with self guided SBIG cameras.. you've already laid out big dollars just to have a camera capable of using the SBIG AO-8... With the Orion AO unit, you can use a cheap, modified Canon 300D DSLR and a QHY5 guider and have the use of AO... The SX-AO unit is similarly priced to the Orion one, however it requires you to use the very very expensive SX Lodestar autoguiding camera.. If you ask me, the Orion one is reasonably priced..
Their KAF8300 based cameras are a little expensive, More than the QHY9 thats for sure... Good to see they have implemented regulated cooling... But here is the kicker.. SBIG ST-8300M is $700USD cheaper.. I know which one I have pre-ordered.
--------------------
Apogee Ortho-Star LOMO 80/480 APO
WO ZS70ED
HEQ5 Pro + EQMOD
Astrodon NB Filters
Orion SS Pro 2
SBIG ST-8300M on order.
QHY5
|
Tapio
super member
Reged: 09/24/06
Posts: 157
Loc: Tampere, Finland
|
|
I thought that SXV-AO worked best with Lodestar but you could use other cameras as well.
--------------------
Tapio
|
J.P.M
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/14/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
|
|
I Haven't seen a software doing that?
There is no mechaical reason why SXV-AO didn't wor with any guider.
How ever, software level AO and the guidecamera are coupled together so, that no third party camera can be used.
If there is a SW, that allows to use of a third party camera, I'm interested.
I have experience with Maxim, but haven't tryed others, like AstroArt.
--------------------
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
J-P Metsavainio, Finland
LX200 GPS 12", SkyWatcher ED80, Canon 200mm EF f1.8L, Tokina 300mm AX f2.8, SXV-AO, QHY9, QHY8, QHY5, Lodestar
BLOG:http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
IMAGE PORTFOLIO:http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
|
chicot
super member
Reged: 09/30/08
Posts: 190
Loc: Liverpool, UK
|
|
I think the SXV-A0 unit works with any SX guide camera, not just the lodestar.
--------------------
Meade 10-inch LX200 classic
Williams Optics ZII80
Starlight Xpress SXV-H9
Starlight Xpress Lodestar autoguider
Meade DSI III
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
Sbig now had detailed information about their camera on their site.
http://www.sbig.com/sbwhtmls/ST8300.htm
Wow- I love Orion, but if I can get an SBIG camera for less- that's pretty much a no-brainer.
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
Would the adaptive optics unit allow you to use smaller pixel cameras with longer focal length scopes, or doesn't it work that way?
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
J.P.M
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/14/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
|
|
It has no effect to a image scale. Imaging conficuration should be as well scaled as possible to a local seeing conditions.
It makes imaging with longer FL easier though, specially if you mount is less than perfect.
AO-is like a very accurate guiding.
Actually the right term for amateur AO units is not a
"Adaptive Optics" but "Active Optics" since the wavefront is not effected, just guiding.
In some environments, like mine, it can reduce a lower frequency turbulens, like a heat bubbles from buildings.
--------------------
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
J-P Metsavainio, Finland
LX200 GPS 12", SkyWatcher ED80, Canon 200mm EF f1.8L, Tokina 300mm AX f2.8, SXV-AO, QHY9, QHY8, QHY5, Lodestar
BLOG:http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
IMAGE PORTFOLIO:http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
I guess I thought it artificially improved seeing, so I was thinking you could use a smaller chip... With the 8300 chip binned 2x2, it gives 10.8 microns which is still a bit small for a big SCT scope according to what I've read.
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
J.P.M
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/14/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
|
|
Effect to a stars FWHM is minimal, if you have a good mount.
It has some impact but it's few percents.
I have a Meade LX200 12" and QHY9. I have reduced Meade to f4.65 with a Celestron f6.3 reducer.
It gives me image scale 0,8 arcsec/pixel. This is very good scale for me, slightly oversampled is good for deconvolution.
--------------------
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
J-P Metsavainio, Finland
LX200 GPS 12", SkyWatcher ED80, Canon 200mm EF f1.8L, Tokina 300mm AX f2.8, SXV-AO, QHY9, QHY8, QHY5, Lodestar
BLOG:http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
IMAGE PORTFOLIO:http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
|
freestar8n
sage
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 301
|
|
Quote:
Actually the right term for amateur AO units is not a
"Adaptive Optics" but "Active Optics" since the wavefront is not effected, just guiding.
I've seen other people say this, but I don't agree. Active optics refers to slow corrections of the mirror and mechanics by applying pressure and such to maintain the mirror shape. Adaptive optics refers to high speed manipulation of the image using small auxiliary optics to correct for aberrations AND shifting. So a high-speed tip-tilt is a form of first-order adaptive optics.
The distinction of slow vs. fast is described in Astronomical Optics, by Schroeder.
Frank
|
J.P.M
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/14/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
|
|
Yes, terminology is generally very "fuzzy" in amateur astronomy.
--------------------
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
J-P Metsavainio, Finland
LX200 GPS 12", SkyWatcher ED80, Canon 200mm EF f1.8L, Tokina 300mm AX f2.8, SXV-AO, QHY9, QHY8, QHY5, Lodestar
BLOG:http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
IMAGE PORTFOLIO:http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
|
freestar8n
sage
Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 301
|
|
I'm referring to the use of the term by professional astronomers, and in reviewed papers that refer to active and adaptive optics. I would encourage Orion and SBIG to change their terminology if they referred to the device as active optics - but in this case I think they are fine.
There are many areas where amateurs use very sloppy terminology that departs from professional optics and astronomy, and it leads to a lot of confusion. One is "field curvature" for any form of off-axis aberration like coma. Since amateur astronomy combines optics and astronomy, which are technical subjects, I'm all for adhering to the terminology and conventions of professional and published work.
Frank
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
Quote:
Yes, terminology is generally very "fuzzy" in amateur astronomy.
JPM- I really enjoy your blog, by the way- just fantastic work you're doing!
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
If only I could get those 3d images to work- I haven't been able to see them yet. You should publish a viewmaster slide 
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
tjugo
member
Reged: 11/06/07
Posts: 23
|
|
Orion had started to feel the heat...
They've dropped the Parsec cameras' price by a couple of hundred....
Love competition...
|
Nocturnal
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/14/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: CT, USA
|
|
Orion often has introductory prices that go up without warning. We can certainly hope this is a permanent drop. The camera looks really good. The internal buffer is a great feature. It means that the ADC process is completely internally timed rather than through the USB port. The QHY8 doesn't do that and used to be sensitive to USB stalls with older drivers. Later drivers solved this thankfully but it's good to see that these cameras put a few $ worth of electronics in to make them more reliable.
Curious about how well it's sealed though.
Also saw they have an OSC version of the same camera. Maybe old news but I didn't see that before.
http://www.telescope.com/control/category/~category_id=parsecs09
--------------------
Best,
Sander
C11-HyperStar on Atlas EQ-Q driven by EQMOD
William Optics M110 With FR-III/TRF-2008
DS2090 guide scope
QHY-8, DSI-Pro and DSI cameras
watec 802h video camera with KIWI OSD
Astro stuff: http://www.tungstentech.com
My Astro Photos
|
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Focusing Mask
Reged: 10/01/04
Posts: 699
Loc: Mineral Point, Wi
|
|
Orion's camera has dual stage cooling as opposed to the single stage of SBIG. They don't list the temperature drop, though.
--------------------
John Wunderlin
Vendor - Spike-a Bahtinov Focusing Mask
Empire Ranch Observatory
Iowa County Astronomers
|
Nocturnal
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/14/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: CT, USA
|
|
Sure looks like an 8300 shootout is required sometime spring next year. It may well be that the shortcuts SBIG must have put in to reduce the price have no appreciable impact on image quality.
--------------------
Best,
Sander
C11-HyperStar on Atlas EQ-Q driven by EQMOD
William Optics M110 With FR-III/TRF-2008
DS2090 guide scope
QHY-8, DSI-Pro and DSI cameras
watec 802h video camera with KIWI OSD
Astro stuff: http://www.tungstentech.com
My Astro Photos
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
The thing that makes it difficult is the lack of information from Orion. They give very little in the way of specs, such as Delta Temp, Download Speed, Sealed CCD with desiccant or Gas Filled and Purged, Distance of CCD from Face of Camera and other important stuff.
This makes comparisons very hard to do.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
Yes, no temperature Delta, plus you have to remember that if the CCD is too close to the window, then high cooling will cause it to dew or frost up too! But it would be nice to know how much it cools.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
degrbi
journeyman
Reged: 03/03/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Western New York
|
|
The Parsec 8300 will be offered by Orion for $2499 for the color version and $2599 for the monochrome. Personally....save your money and but the new S-Big 8300. It's tried and true and for $500 less.
|
mnaf
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Bay Area, CA
|
|
The SBIG ST8300 may turn out to be a great camera but it's definitely not "tried and true" just yet. IIRC, the folks at the SBIG table mentioned that they had one prototype of the 8300 - and it was right there on the table.
The ST402 is tried and true but the ST8300 is only using the 402's body.
I hope it turns out to be a barn burner but no-one knows yet...
--------------------
~Mike
AP Mach1GTO
Orion 8", AT66ED, Tak. FS-60CSV
Discovery 80mm refractor
Meade LPI, DSI Pro, DSI Pro II, SXV-H9
|
harry page 1
member
Reged: 07/25/09
Posts: 33
|
|
Hi Gus
I have a sx Ao which I intend to use with my newt and as you say back focus is limited 
But I intend to use the Ao at f10 for small objects and to do this I am going to use a x2 powermate which shifts the focus out, allowing use of the Ao Have a look here
http://www.harrysastroshed.com/aounit.html
Not used it in anger yet , but worked in trials
The Orion Ao looks like a staight SX copy, I think there will be some unhappy people at sx ( Patent infringement)
Regards Harry
|
J.P.M
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/14/06
Posts: 1340
Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
|
|
I don't have any specs, but it looks like orion AO is thiner than SXV-AO?
It looks like a copy of SXV-AO, design looks good though.
They have integrated the OAG, there is good and bad points.
Good, maybe thiner design. Bad, no possibilty to rotate OAG relative to Imaging chip.
I love my SXV-AO, it turns my grappy Meade fork mount to really good imaging platform.
Buying a mount, with a PEC as lov as needed for high res imaging, could cos me ten times more.
--------------------
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
J-P Metsavainio, Finland
LX200 GPS 12", SkyWatcher ED80, Canon 200mm EF f1.8L, Tokina 300mm AX f2.8, SXV-AO, QHY9, QHY8, QHY5, Lodestar
BLOG:http://astroanarchy.blogspot.com/
IMAGE PORTFOLIO:http://astroanarchy.zenfolio.com/
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
It is true that the ST8300 is not exactly tried a true, but I think that SBig is!
I just got off the phone with them after talking about the new camera.
The low price is due to being able to use the ST402 case which saved re tooling costs. The camera is a full featured camera, just having one chip is all, no guide chip. The electronics have not been cut back to make it cheaper, just eliminating the second chip and the cost of the case and cooling has trimmed the price.
It can be used with the CFW-9/10 filter wheels and 1.25" filters if you are imaging above f/7 or doing narrow band imaging. It may vignette more than you like if you image at a faster focal ratio, but it may well be acceptable too, depending on your demands and criteria.
I think that the camera will turn the others on their heads and possibly cause a fall in prices on all models. Maybe not, but Orion immediately dropped their prices by $200, so it would not suprise me if the others do this as well.
This would be good for all of us, no matter which camera we choose to buy!
I think I will order one, really am about to push the button, just got to think a little more.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
Nocturnal
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/14/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: CT, USA
|
|
This part worries me a little "just eliminating the second chip and the cost of the case and cooling has trimmed the price"
Any idea what did they cut cooling wise? From what I've heard (could be wrong) Kodak chips need to be very cold to perform well.
I'm curious what market the 6300C from Orion fills though. It's quite a bit more than their Sony 6MP OSC camera and I'm not sure I see the benefit. Smaller pixels and more of them but you have to deal with dark current which you don't with the Sony.
--------------------
Best,
Sander
C11-HyperStar on Atlas EQ-Q driven by EQMOD
William Optics M110 With FR-III/TRF-2008
DS2090 guide scope
QHY-8, DSI-Pro and DSI cameras
watec 802h video camera with KIWI OSD
Astro stuff: http://www.tungstentech.com
My Astro Photos
|
Chemisttree
member
Reged: 02/05/08
Posts: 29
Loc: San Antonio, TX
|
|
I love the disclaimer from Orion!
"Please note this product was not designed or intended by the manufacturer for use by a child 12 years of age or younger."
|
Nocturnal
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/14/05
Posts: 1033
Loc: CT, USA
|
|
Even better if it added " nor by adults that act like 12 year olds"
--------------------
Best,
Sander
C11-HyperStar on Atlas EQ-Q driven by EQMOD
William Optics M110 With FR-III/TRF-2008
DS2090 guide scope
QHY-8, DSI-Pro and DSI cameras
watec 802h video camera with KIWI OSD
Astro stuff: http://www.tungstentech.com
My Astro Photos
|
ZMass
sage
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 269
|
|
Fact is the TEC units don't add a ton to the cost. SBIG used a single stage vs others dual-stage. I don't see that saving more than $50 at the factory. They spec it at -40c which I believe is sufficient for most people. And how much could the body actually cost? I just don't see $1000+ savings there. I wonder if an accountant forgot to 'carry the zero' somewhere.
I'm not complaining. This is great for us consumers. SBIGs reputation combined with now being the cheapest 8300 on the block will inspire some good competition. And it will all settle out by the time I'm ready for a new ccd
[edit]
As for Orion's offering, their 8300 does have added value over the Deep space Mono cams - it's much larger. Comparing the color cams is less clear though. Orion does operate in 'a vacuum' - many of it's customers aren't looking at the other options, they're just looking at an Orion catalog.
--------------------
-Zeke Mass
Encinitas, CA
6" Custom Newt on CG5
CCD Labs Q285M (Qhy2 Pro)
ST-80 guide-scope with DSI Pro
Edited by ZMass (11/04/09 04:24 PM)
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
The cooling was simpler, no real cuts, because there is only one chip to cool and less heat from the electronics it was easier to implement. The cooling will hold 36-38c Delta at 70%, which is about the same as the QSI.
The electronics were also simpler due to the lack of the second guide chip and the guide relays making the board smaller, so this too helped to trim the cost.
SBig assured me that there was no cost cutting done at the expense of the quality of the camera.
I ordered mine today and will be in the first que for the shipments in December.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
The $1000 cost savings is due to many factors dealing with assembly and manufacture. Each time you can simplify the design, it saves money. If you can use an existing case, it saves money. If you can get more efficient cooling by having less to cool, then it too saves money.
The 8300 chip has little noise at -0c to -10c so there is no real need to get to -20 to -40c, because there is so little noise to reduce it just does not require these extreme temps. This is good, because it means less draw on your battery and less possibility of frosting the window on the camera.
I ordered one, so I guess I am convinced.  But hey, I am not trying to convince anyone, I get no commission for the sale of these cameras.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
lawrie
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/31/06
Posts: 1744
Loc: Okanagan Valley
|
|
Here is some images taken with the camera
http://www.sbig.com/sbwhtmls/ST8300_pics.htm
--------------------
Clear Skies
Lawrie
Ultima 8
Atlas EQ-G
ZenithStar 80 FD
DSI Pro - Pro II
Canon 350D
|
ZMass
sage
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 269
|
|
I wish I didn't need a new mount and OTA more than a camera!
For the same cost as the QSI 583wsg I've been wanting, I could get the ST-8300, SXV-AO adaptive optics and guider, and the orion 2" filter wheel.
--------------------
-Zeke Mass
Encinitas, CA
6" Custom Newt on CG5
CCD Labs Q285M (Qhy2 Pro)
ST-80 guide-scope with DSI Pro
|
Konihlav
super member
Reged: 03/05/09
Posts: 107
|
|
I believe that another reason for the new ST8300 to be "so cheap" is that the CCD cameras are still generally overpriced (in terms of the cost of electronic parts and mechanics manufacture versus end user price).
|
ZMass
sage
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 269
|
|
That must be the case. That and perhaps Kodak is able to reduce the cost of this particular chip as well because of it's boom in popularity as of late.
In my business (TV's and audio/video, entertainment stuff) I've watched the price of TV's fall over the last few years. It has driven some of the best manufacturers out of the industry. So while we all appreciate the price drop, I'd hate to see the profit margin get so thin that it chases some of our favorites out of the game. But honestly, I don't see SBIG as a company that would shoot itself in the foot like that.
This is actually kind of exciting. Looking forward to the other manufacturers reactions.
--------------------
-Zeke Mass
Encinitas, CA
6" Custom Newt on CG5
CCD Labs Q285M (Qhy2 Pro)
ST-80 guide-scope with DSI Pro
|
blueman
Vendor Blue Sky Accessories
Reged: 07/20/07
Posts: 1435
|
|
I was told that the 8300 chip was made for a DSLR camera company and they discontinued the camera, so the chips are now offered at a lower cost to anyone. This started the rush for cameras using the chip.
Truth, not possitive, but the source was a good one.
Blueman
--------------------
14.5" Starmaster with ServoCat and Argo Navis
AT 8" RC
TV NP101 f/5.4 APO Telvue .8 Focal Reducer
WO 80mm f/6 APO Televue .8 focal reducer
SBig ST2000xm with CFW-9 filter wheel
Astrodon Gen2 filters RGBL
Baader HA,O-III, H-Beta, S-II Filters
Losmandy G-11 Gemini Auto-guided
|
FebStars
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 02/02/06
Posts: 826
Loc: MA
|
|
I was looking at the filters and filter wheel one might need for the larger chip. It starts to get a little pricey...The wheel will be~$600, according to SBIG,and I'm sure the filter set will hit the $500 mark. This changes things for me a bti, as I have just invested in a 1.25" set of Astronomiks and an H Alpha filter as well.
Tom
--------------------
Tom H
Orion ED80
Celestron 8
Televue Genesis 500mm
Orion EQ-G, LXD75 Mounts
"The cure for boredom is curiousity. There is no cure for curiousity."
|
mdecastro1977
journeyman
Reged: 05/13/09
Posts: 7
|
|
It would be weird that those 8300 Kodak chips were built initially for a DSLR camera. Those chips dont work very nice uncooled.
--------------------
Orion 190mm Maksutov Newtonian
Losmandy G-11 with Gemini L4 goto
QHY9 8MP CCD
QHY Color Wheel
Baader Ha, OIII and SII narrowband filters
Orion LRGB filters
Orion ShortTube Refractor (Autoguider)
Orion Star Shoot Autoguider
|
ZMass
sage
Reged: 11/07/07
Posts: 269
|
|
The difference between taking daytime "normal camera" shots and our deep space photo's is huge. A ccd could be completely unacceptable for daytime imaging, and still amazing for astro imaging. I've never heard of a DSLR that had a cooled ccd- yet none of our astro cameras are ideal unless they are cooled. Two very different applications.
--------------------
-Zeke Mass
Encinitas, CA
6" Custom Newt on CG5
CCD Labs Q285M (Qhy2 Pro)
ST-80 guide-scope with DSI Pro
|
Gus_Smedstad
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/02/06
Posts: 1154
Loc: Boston 42° 16' N 71° 08' W
|
|
To amplify what Zeke said, thermal noise is largely irrelevant for terrestrial photography. Exposures are rarely over 1 second, so if a chip requires cooling for adequate 5-10 minute exposures, most DSLR users are not going to care.
On the other hand, read noise is a serious issue when taking a single, short exposure, but for long exposures like ours, read noise is a minor component compared to thermal noise and shot (photon) noise. Thus a chip optimized for a DSLR emphasizes a characteristic that has relatively little impact on us.
- Gus
--------------------
Gus Smedstad image gallery
Orion Atlas 8 EQ-G
Celestron Onyx 80EDF (guiding / widefields).
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
QHY8
Philips SPC900NC
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 
