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orlyandico
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5705191 - 02/28/13 11:59 AM

even the 8300 can use 1.25" filters in specific cameras (the QSI WS) where the wheel is very close to the CCD.

all of the Sony cameras as well. even the 694 which is the largest chip Sony mono camera has a rather small chip overall (15mm diagonally).


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cn register 5
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5705869 - 02/28/13 05:57 PM

I'm using 1.25" filters with an Atk 383L+ and a Brightstar (aka Orion Nautilus) filter wheel - but...
I'm not planning to go faster than about F/6.
I'm prepared to accept some vignetting in the corners.

The reality is that flats handle it and in any case I always end up trimming the edges off the image.

It may be coarse astro imaging but it works for me.

Chris


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Inverted
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5705949 - 02/28/13 06:41 PM

In my st-8300 manual I think it says 1.25" filters can be used as long as you don't go below F7. Some of the other 8300 cameras may be able to go faster with them though. The qsi I know is made for them. I like 2" filters though because I can use them for visual observing with 2" eyepieces.

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hytham
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5706354 - 02/28/13 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Looking at the QHY9M it states on their website that the 2" filter wheel with RGB filters are only included as a part of a special deal available until March of 2010.




Well, since that date has long since passed, I wonder if it's still going on or they just haven't changed the website. Worth a phone call to see. I actually didn't see that on the website though. Are you looking at www.astrofactors.com?




My apologies, I was looking at CCD Labs which I had mistaken for the QHYCCD site *sigh*. I would call to be safe in case the site was not updated on AstroFactors as well.

http://www.ccd-labs.com/Qseries/qhy9m.htm


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hytham
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: hytham]
      #5706381 - 02/28/13 11:12 PM

So what is the big deal with the Apogee that they can charge $500 more for the same chip, same cooling and still require the purchase of a 3rd party software vendor for camera control for $400 for MaximDL or $300 for CCDSoft?

Looking at the ATIK 460EX, it comes with everything stated above (it's own capture software) for $800 - $900 less. That savings will get you a motorized ATIK EFW2 filter wheel ($600) and a set of Astronomik LRGB filters ($279) or splurge and extra $171 and grab yourself a set of LRGB Astrodon filters ($450).


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orlyandico
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: hytham]
      #5706395 - 02/28/13 11:21 PM

Apogee and FLI are the top tier vendors. I'd say QSI is next, then SBIG. The rest... are below (I'll get into trouble with wolfman again for this, haha).

There is a 2-year warranty on the camera and lifetime warranty on the vacuum-sealed CCD chamber. If you look at the price of the FLI ML8300 for example (or the Apogee Alta F8300) compared to the equivalent SBIG, a $500 price premium is ridiculously low.

But then again.. if you think that a QHY or ATIK is equivalent to an Apogee or FLI.. then that's great!

You don't see folks like Rob Gendler or Jason Ware tooling around with ATIK's though..


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hytham
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5706458 - 03/01/13 12:10 AM

I have no idea if it is technically equivalent and that's why I asked. I couldn't understand the cost difference, but based on the little info you provided you are paying for the added warranty (which is great). In reality it's another maximum $900 difference for the camera when including the capture software.

Robert Gendler is a vascular radiologist which kinda gives him a slight edge on many people on Earth when it comes to affording nice equipment

Now don't get me wrong. If I were making $500K per year, I would have the nicest equipment money can buy!


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microstar
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5706470 - 03/01/13 12:28 AM

Quote:

Apogee and FLI are the top tier vendors. I'd say QSI is next, then SBIG. The rest... are below (I'll get into trouble with wolfman again for this, haha).

There is a 2-year warranty on the camera and lifetime warranty on the vacuum-sealed CCD chamber. If you look at the price of the FLI ML8300 for example (or the Apogee Alta F8300) compared to the equivalent SBIG, a $500 price premium is ridiculously low.

But then again.. if you think that a QHY or ATIK is equivalent to an Apogee or FLI.. then that's great!

You don't see folks like Rob Gendler or Jason Ware tooling around with ATIK's though..




Then again J-P Metsavainio shoots with a QHY9. If that represented the limit of what I'd be capable of with a bottom tier CCD, well from his webpage (Astro Anarchy):

.---Some publications---NASA APOD (Astronomy Picture Of the Day, four times), National Geographic (Space picture of the Week, February 2012, two times), LPOD (Lunar Picture Of the Day, five times), Sky & Telescope magazine, Discover magazine, Interstellarum, Ciel & Espace, Tähdet ja avaruus, Stella Arcti prize 2009. A five-page article in Sky & telescope magazine (Jan 2005, p 142-146.)


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orlyandico
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: microstar]
      #5706507 - 03/01/13 01:18 AM

in no way did i imply that good images can't be taken with lower-tier equipment. they can.

as with everything, more money buys more convenience, better reliability, etc. etc. etc.

i see a lot of photos out there taken with EQ6 and Atlas that are far better than anything i've ever done with my Mach1. so equipment isn't everything.

for me though, dealing with the incessant dirt on the sensor and frosting issues on my QHY8 has soured me on the brand. but that's just me.


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rigel123
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5706773 - 03/01/13 08:56 AM

In short, the best camera out there is the one that works for you and your situation! In my case, at first it was a DSI III pro, and now it's the Atik314L+. Who knows what it will be in the future!

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orlyandico
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: rigel123]
      #5706794 - 03/01/13 09:12 AM

well the best camera is the one you use.

i can say this: my QHY8 has given me a lot of hassles (it's an old model, so it doesn't have the heated window, the CCD chamber is not sealed, etc. etc.)

the later QHY's definitely fixed the issues with the 8, but it soured me on the experience. are there folks out there producing great images with the QHY8? definitely!

but really if you had the choice between something that dews up and has an unsealed CCD chamber, vs one that does not dew up and has a purged and vacuum-sealed chamber, which would you choose? (if you can afford both)

of course I have an 8 because it's what i could afford, so...


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MattThomas
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5707065 - 03/01/13 12:12 PM

Quote:

warranty on the vacuum-sealed CCD chamber




Just to be clear, none of the vendors you mentioned (including SBIG) have vacuum sealed chambers.

All the camera companies that you have mentioned have dry chambers with a seal to keep moisture from leaking in - but it is not a vacuum chamber. Vacuum chambers are much more complex and costly.


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AddictedToAstro
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5707339 - 03/01/13 03:07 PM

Quote:

for me though, dealing with the incessant dirt on the sensor and frosting issues on my QHY8 has soured me on the brand. but that's just me.




The QHY9M has a heater on the sensor to help avoid dew, right? Wouldn't something like that work against the cooler to keep noise down?


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orlyandico
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5707868 - 03/01/13 09:51 PM

the qhy9m has a heated cover glass, AFAIK. not a sensor heater..

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AddictedToAstro
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5707951 - 03/01/13 11:10 PM

Quote:

the qhy9m has a heated cover glass, AFAIK. not a sensor heater..




Ah, that makes more sense.

I keep looking at the disadvantages of each camera and using them as an excuse to remove it from the list. But then I see the AMAZING images produced by every single one of them.

I have to just narrow it down to which one will be the best at what I want to do, which is narrowband nebula imaging. From what I've read, high QE is the most desirable for nebula and narrowband, correct? The chips with the best QE seems to be the 674/694 Sonys.

But then I look at images from sites like http://www.pbase.com/tango33/nebulae&page=all and http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/qhy9m/Interesting, with many or all of the images on both coming from the Kodak 8300. I know expertise behind those photos plays a HUGE role in the successful images, but knowing the cameras are capable of it helps.

I think I will just figure out what field of view I want and go with it.


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AddictedToAstro
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5708003 - 03/02/13 12:06 AM

Oh my gosh, I just looked up narrowband filter prices. I can't believe I hadn't checked out those costs before. For Astronomik, the 1.25" is $200 and 2" is $450 for the 6nm narrowband. Wow on the 2" price. The 12nm filters are quite a but less... would you all recommend against them? Since the 6nm lets in a smaller wavelength of light, would the exposures be much longer?

Out of curiosity, I checked out the Astrodon pricing and it's about double the Astronomik. I had no idea how expensive these filters are. That can play a definite role in my decision now.

If I get one of the sony cameras, I know I can use 1.25 as stated above. But would they mount at the front of the nosepiece, or just in front of the sensor window?


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korborh
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5708017 - 03/02/13 12:24 AM

Yup, unfortunately the narrow-band filter prices are extortionate.
You can use the 1.25" with Sony mono sensors using a filter wheel no problem.


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rigel123
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5708722 - 03/02/13 12:29 PM

Quote:

Oh my gosh, I just looked up narrowband filter prices. I can't believe I hadn't checked out those costs before. For Astronomik, the 1.25" is $200 and 2" is $450 for the 6nm narrowband. Wow on the 2" price. The 12nm filters are quite a but less... would you all recommend against them? Since the 6nm lets in a smaller wavelength of light, would the exposures be much longer?

Out of curiosity, I checked out the Astrodon pricing and it's about double the Astronomik. I had no idea how expensive these filters are. That can play a definite role in my decision now.

If I get one of the sony cameras, I know I can use 1.25 as stated above. But would they mount at the front of the nosepiece, or just in front of the sensor window?




You want to go Narrow on your NB, I use Orion's 1.25" 7nm HA and SII and Astrodon's 5nm OIII. Others use 5 or even 3nm for their NB filters. 12nm is too wide and you will allow some LP into your image.

I have been happy with the Orion HA and SII, the OIII gave me funky stars for some reason so I went with the Astrodon on that one, and I did a full set of Astrodon RGB as they eliminated blooming on my stars.


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AddictedToAstro
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: rigel123]
      #5708942 - 03/02/13 02:45 PM

Thanks Warren. Good to know. Orion filters are quite a bit less money. Do you find that you have to refocus between the Astrodon filters and Orion filters?

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rigel123
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Re: First CCD camera choice new [Re: AddictedToAstro]
      #5708979 - 03/02/13 03:12 PM

Quote:

Thanks Warren. Good to know. Orion filters are quite a bit less money. Do you find that you have to refocus between the Astrodon filters and Orion filters?




I refocus always between filters, even my Astrodons


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