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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63
      #6427499 - 03/24/14 10:33 PM

Well, between the moon, weather and equipment, so far I've managed to get 6 hours of LUM and 2hrs ea. of RGB. Now, for the life of me, I can't seem to get much color in the galaxy itself. the background, I believe, is a lot of IFN and the galaxy itself shows some nice tidal streams. That's what I THINK. The red at the bottom LH corner I believe is real. It's there in all my frames and doesn't seem to be artifact or gradient. Same goes for the subtle blues in the background elsewhere. I couldn't find a wide enough field of view in other pictures to verify this, but just wanted to see what you all think. My opinion is I just need more integration time of everything L&RGB. So what do you all think? Is the background actually IFN or is this just noise? I know the darker area in the upper RH side is there also in all frames, so likely it's real which suggests the IFN below it is also real.



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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6427557 - 03/24/14 11:01 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Hi Dan,
there is colour there.
I hope you don't mind?
I checked for colour using LAB mode as per here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE2GS_87Ct8

I did however come out all yellow.

My result is here & I did use a mask for the background.


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Jim Thommes
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Reged: 09/20/04

Loc: San DiegoCA USA
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: alpal]
      #6427604 - 03/24/14 11:38 PM

Dan,
You don't describe how you processed the color. It would be useful to know. One thing I have realized is that high luminance signal level is the enemy of color. That may be why your background is more colorful than your galaxy. It would be nice to know your color calibration method (G2V factors, eXcalibrator, ??)

If you haven't already done so, you might try blending your luminance layer to RGB first at 1/2 level. In Photoshop that would be setting the input level at 255 and the output at 128. (Not the same as setting opacity at 50% for the layer). Flatten then mostly reverse the level (i.e. input at say 160, output 255). Those steps should bring out more color. If you want, you can saturate deeper in LAB color space. Then you can reapply the Luminance data as a luminosity layer.


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: alpal]
      #6427608 - 03/24/14 11:40 PM

Hi Alpal;
No, I don't mind at all! I was able to get the same color while messing with it, but It just doesn't seem to be the "right" color.... You look at other images and you see a lot of them with much more blue in the arms. Maybe I just need more integration time in RGB? This is where I'd like to end up...


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Jim Thommes]
      #6427615 - 03/24/14 11:48 PM

Hi Jim;

I've never really gotten deep into photoshop but I've been immersing myself in PixInsight and likeing it quite a bit. What I done was got my G2V balance from the tool in CCDAutopilot and used that setting in CCDStack to make my LRGB. Converted the color image from CCDStack to a 16bit TIF file to use in PI. In PI, I've gotten used to all the functions covered by Harry's Astroshed tutorials, but just couldn't bring out the colors I wanted. Thinking along your same lines, I done just and RGB version and ended up with the same dull colors.


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alpal
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6427765 - 03/25/14 02:01 AM

Quote:

Hi Alpal;
No, I don't mind at all! I was able to get the same color while messing with it, but It just doesn't seem to be the "right" color.... You look at other images and you see a lot of them with much more blue in the arms. Maybe I just need more integration time in RGB? This is where I'd like to end up...





Hi Dan,
yes I know what you mean - it's all yellow.
It could be the way you've processed it.
What did the blue signal look like?
Did you bin the colours 2x2?

cheers
Allan


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: alpal]
      #6428884 - 03/25/14 06:12 PM

I'll post up my R,G, and B calibrated/registered frames in a while when I get back out to the observatory. Funny thing is, I don't usually have trouble with color. Oh, and I bin all frames 1x1.

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alpal
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6428939 - 03/25/14 06:45 PM

Quote:

I'll post up my R,G, and B calibrated/registered frames in a while when I get back out to the observatory. Funny thing is, I don't usually have trouble with color. Oh, and I bin all frames 1x1.





OK - I now bin the colour 2x2 so I can get more signal.

This might be your problem.


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vpcirc
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Reged: 12/09/09

Loc: Merced CA
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6428948 - 03/25/14 06:48 PM

There should be more there. Hopefully I'll finish mine tonight. I think your issue may be gradient related, but I'm no expert. Here's mine from last year shooting with a refractor.

M 63


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: vpcirc]
      #6429116 - 03/25/14 08:32 PM

OK.. Here is my calibrated/registered RED which is 8X900 Bin 1



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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429119 - 03/25/14 08:34 PM

Here is the Green channel. All channels are same number and duration.



Edited by Aircrftr (03/25/14 08:35 PM)


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429122 - 03/25/14 08:36 PM

Here is the blue channel.



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elbee
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/02/09

Loc: Arizona
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429135 - 03/25/14 08:40 PM

can you zip those raw RGB Master FITs files and put them in a cloud drive to share. the data looks nice!

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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429140 - 03/25/14 08:43 PM

Here are all three channels put together in CCDStack (No luminance) and untouched from there.(accept conversion to the JPG format..)


Edited by Aircrftr (03/25/14 08:44 PM)


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429149 - 03/25/14 08:48 PM

You know, I've just thought of something... The G2V color balance was obtained before I put my AO-X in the imaging train. I wonder if the coatings on that glass plate affected my color balance? I'll have to experiment with that.

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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: elbee]
      #6429313 - 03/25/14 10:50 PM

Here are the LRG&B Fits files from CCDStack. They are all averaged when combined.

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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429350 - 03/25/14 11:14 PM

Hi Dan,
I'll download & process those files & put
the result on Astrobin.
It looks like you have plenty of colour signal.

cheers
Allan


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Aircrftr
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/29/06

Loc: Claremore OK
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: alpal]
      #6429395 - 03/25/14 11:39 PM

Thanks Alan. I'm looking forward to seeing what the problem is... In aviation, we call it "Loose nut behind the yoke" or a "short between the headset". We'll see.

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alpal
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: Aircrftr]
      #6429510 - 03/26/14 01:02 AM Attachment (8 downloads)

Hi Dan,
You're right - this one was tricky.
I'll post some smaller versions here instead of Astrobin.
I had to play around with the colours before combining the channels & do
quite a bit of LAB mode boosting.
Here is a full frame.


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alpal
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Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: Uphill battle. opinions wanted. M63 new [Re: alpal]
      #6429512 - 03/26/14 01:03 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

Here is a rotated closeup.
I recommend that you always take colour as 2x2 binning from now on.


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