habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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I need to learn more about a particular telescope sold by Royal Astro Optical Industries Co. Ltd. It was listed in their catalogs as Model No. R61-D. I have two of these in my collection and have found that the optical and mechanical performance is excellent. The lens diameter is 60mm (2.4-inches) and the focal length is a relatively long 1200mm.
I have access to a circa 1970 online Royal Astro catalog, but need further information about this great small refractor. In particular I would love to get another detailed image from a separate non-Royal catalog showing the scope. I also have these questions for owners of this vintage refractor:
(1) What were the specific production years for the R61-D?
(2) The Sears, Roebuck & Co. 1961 catalog only has it listed for $150. Did it carry the Sears label on the focuser?
(3) What other brand names and corresponding model numbers appears on the identifying metal tag? I have seen possible examples from Southerner and Carton. Is this true?
(4) What is the opinion of the optical performance from owners of this scope?
(5) What is the opinion of the mechanical performance from owners of this scope?
(6) Please contact me at 'My Home' if you have an additional catalog image that you can provide.
This information is intended to be incorporated into a January 2010 article titled "Classic Telescopes."
Any input is greatly appreciated!
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Happy-Idiot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 2803
Loc: 3rd Rock
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Did yours come with Ash legs? I have a 60mm AE-60 that is really a nice quality scope, and was wondering if all Royals came with Ash legs.
--------------------
Brian
A small scope that gets used often is a better investment than a big scope that stays in the closet.
Unitrons, you spend more time looking at them than you do through them.
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Steve_M_M
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/09/04
Posts: 976
Loc: Moorpark, CA
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John, Do you have any pictures of yours you could share?
--------------------
1956 Goto Optical 6" f15 Observatory Refractor
From the Titan Observatory as featured in S&T 1957-1959
&
1961 Nishimura 6" Reflector
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akman1955
sage
Reged: 09/07/09
Posts: 362
Loc: Alaska, USA
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 Yes pictures brian ...please, john 
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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John hi
As you know I have the Royal Astro Branded R-61 which I believe is the earlier model but from what I have seen is and looks exactly the same as the R-61D. Saying this I have no idea why the difference in model numbers.
The scope is wonderful, better than any other scope of the same diameter and I am convinced better than the 75mm scopes I have looked through. This applies most definitely optically and I believe mechanically. It is significantly heavier than other scopes of the same diameter due to its steel tubing and its engineered lens cell and focus mechanism, not to mention its dimensions. Interestingly the tube is exactly the same width as a 60mm Unitron/Polarex.
Images are, in my opinion and of others, perfect. The focus is crisp and snaps into exceptional focus without deterioration at any magnification (have taken it to 300 - dim but exceptionally sharp). There is no purple fringing around Venus and as far as I can again tell there are no aberrations either chromatic or spherical. I was challenged by an associate to see whether this scope would define any banding on Saturn and the Casini division. And much to his surprise, on a particular night it did both very easily and it did very much outdo his more expensive 75mm f15.
I have found the Astro Optical scopes of which I have 3, are better performers than other scopes of equal or similar diameter, but the 60mm f20 is a gem and delivers the best and finest images of any refractor I have had the pleasure to see through to date- APOs included. I must admit though that the original mount is not sufficient for this scope and that I use a more robust mounting for viewing. This is the only complaint I have.
Hope this helps
Steve
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Hi John,
I too own two specimens of this wonderful instrument.
a. one is labelled Royal-Astro Opt. Ind Co. Ltd. Tokyo (see label in this message)
b. one is labelled SPI Southern Precision Instrument Co. (see label in further message)
Both come with a collimatable cell. Optically they are both really excellent. They are superior to all the 60mm I have and tried (Unitron, Sears, Towa, etc. etc. etc.), including a Tak FS-60c. They are basically on par with my own Zeiss Telementor (although superior as per color correction). Inferior only to the Zeiss AS-63/840 as per sharpness (resolution and contrast). Still slightly better than this one on color correction.
They do have a perfectly white star test on Sirius and Vega and do show details you would not imagine on Jupiter (saw several breaks in the bandings and three festons on the equatorial bandlast time I used them...!).
The two mounts are identical. They came in an ugly, read "unusable", shape. I totally dismantled one and put it back to work. Now it is excellent and sturdy. Still the tripod is undersized if you want to run high powers (and, as Steve said, these boys do take 300x w/o problems...). The tubes do fit nicely on the Unitron 114 mount and they are a true pleasure to use as grab and go. To use the full potential of the optics you do need a bigger mount though. Big means neither theirs nor the 128 Unitron. Zeiss T Mount is fine. Bigger is even better.
Mechanically speaking the OTAs are very fine. Focusers are smooth and precise w/o any play. They are preferably to be used with a diagonal as the long extension needed to reach focus without the prism adds ridiculous flexure to the whole setup. They would have deserved a longer tube (although, as you know, they are long... see further pix). The Royal-Astro has the finder on top of the focuser while the SPI has it on the tube. As a consequence, the focuser of the Royal-Astro has a longer run.
I have no other catalogs than those on Robert's site but I do have the instruction manuals. I have to dig them out and scan them.
I also have detailed pix of everything. If you need anything specific just let me know.
This is all I can think of at the moment. I'll have a closer look and get back to you.
Hope it helps,
Max
PS/ Before posting, I went back to my notes of last year. I can confirm what Steve said: the 60/1200 did slightly better than the two 75/1200 I tested it against on three occasions (Unitron 142 and Royal-Astro itself...!). I did the test when I recalled than the Telementor did outperform the very same two telescopes the two occasions I had them side by side. So, indeed, I would put the R/A 60/1200 on par with the Zeiss T-mentor as per optical performances. The Zeiss is of course in a *totally* different league mechanically: a truly observatory instrument that can be coupled with very heavy visual and photographic accessories that would literally take the R/A focuser apart... but that's another story...).
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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The SPI label...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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From top to bottom:
Royal-Astro 60/1200
SPI 60/1200
Tak FS-60c 60/355 (this is the "long version"... I should take a new pix with the NSV "short one"... really tiny... 
Zeiss AS-63/840 (now dewshield and with a protective pouch)
Zeiss Telementor C-63/840 (no focuser)
128 Unitron 60/900
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
I truly appreciate the wonderful information that you have provided for me and our group of fellow collectors! I would love to see some scans from both your Royal Astro and SPI user manuals. When they are ready please contact me offline at 'My Home' on Cloudynights for further details.
Recently I had some machine work done and created what may be termed a "Royal Astro/Unitron hybrid." I purchased a pair of customized 70mm cradle rings from Parallax Instruments (they did a superb job) and remounted the optical tube assembly on a circa 1950s Unitron 2.4/3-inch equatorial mounting with tall wooden tripod.
The declination axis on the original mounting from Royal Astro tended to lock up in certain positions, making observing somewhat frustrating. I will post some pictures of my original and modified R61-D equipment setups within the next couple of days. I think that you will find them intriguing.
P.S.--Sneak preview: The forthcoming January 2010 'Classic Telescopes' article will focus on the constellation Gemini and the great R61-D achromatic refractor.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Your evaluation is why I favor the bigger Royal Astro 90mm f/15.6 model imported and sold by Sears. It has just as good if not better image quality than my personal R61-D, plus the images are considerably brighter with a greater deep-sky range.
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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John have you been able to identify what is the difference between the R-61 and the R-61D other than age?
The R-61 I have is from the late 50s to early 60s as I have been advised. The 1970s Royal catalogue that I have, was obtained directly from an old employee of Astro Opt, and it lists the R-61D. Also I believe I had sent you a copy of the original instruction manual which relates to the R-61. Did you identify any differences between your scope and what was shown in the manual?
Steve
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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here is another of the label on the focusser with serial number 262017
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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And one of the scope on the original mount and sun screen
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
The declination axis on the original mounting from Royal Astro tended to lock up in certain positions, making observing somewhat frustrating. I will post some pictures of my original and modified R61-D equipment setups within the next couple of days. I think that you will find them intriguing.
John,
Regarding the above, as already said, I fully dismantled one specimen, de-rusted, smoothened with steel-wool and re-lube the whole thing with teflon-based grease. Now is as perfect as it can be. No pbl with the Decl. On the other hand, the RA does need a careful adjustment of the screw at the back end of the polar axis to work at its best.
This being said, I did get back to the instruments and recalled that the SPI came from an auction w/o manual.
The Royal-Astro came from Germany with the original manual in German (see hereunder).
It would be interesting to see if the pages/infos correspond to the one that Steve got.
If I have to believe the notes of the previous owner, the Royal-Astro is from 1962.
As it is the case for Steve, the instruction manual calls it just "R 61". It might be that the D was added later on. No idea why.
The description is absolutely identical to the R61-D.
The SPI and R-A are basically twins. The sole differences are in the finder, as already said, and in the cradle which, in the Royal-Astro, is bigger, has two locking bolts and is more Unitron-like (the SPI has a one-piece cradle; see below).
Hope it helps,
Max
PS/ Hereunder the first pix. Royal-Astro. I put a longer dew-shield as I don't like short ones and I do use these telescopes.
Of course I keep the original...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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This is the SPI.
It came in such a bad shape -- thanks God the optics was absolutely pristine and never touched -- that I decided to repaint the whole thing. Not to mention that the mount was rusty and fully locked.
Very many days and hours of work later, the scope was broken into several pieces that got de-rusted and cleaned. At the end I liked so much the result that I decided to keep it in its brushed-aluminum look. One can see the handwork in any single piece, really done by hand. I did not feel like covering with paint all this beauty. So like this it remained. As it was the day it came out of the hands of the workers and before going to the paint shop.
If there is an interest, I could post some details of the mount so you can appreciate the handwork...
Max
PS/ Now you can see the differences in the cradle between the two models. And also the different position of the finders. Metal cap on the R-A; plastic on the SPI.
PS2/ The slow motions are a loan from the SYW. The originals are in bakelite. The brushed metal of the SYW-108/1600 looks much cooler
Edited by Max Lattanzi (10/27/09 12:54 PM)
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Now the instruction manual.
First the cover page. I have all over the documentation that "1962" handwritten by the previous owner...
Ooops, sorry, I thought it might have been better to delete name, addres, etc...
Edited by Max Lattanzi (10/27/09 01:01 PM)
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Second page with description...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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And this is how the telescope came.
Wooden case should be the same as Steve's. At least, outside looks identical.
Then this cardboard pack for the legs+mount.
In the manual it is also pictured another case holding telescope, mount and legs all together. But it's crossed. Maybe discontinued.
Max
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Hi Max,
On a slightly related topic. My pier mounted 15TEA wood case has a similar layout as what is pictured from your manual. Would you be so kind as to take a picture of the inside of your Royal Astro wood case.
Thanks
--------------------
James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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James,
Unfortunately the case is not with me at the moment but with a guy who is cleaning it (I have no time do everything myself...;-) Tomorrow I'll give him a call.
In the meantime maybe Steve can help.
What do you want to know, specifically? Maybe I can check if I have other images...
Max
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Max:
Your evaluation is why I favor the bigger Royal Astro 90mm f/15.6 model imported and sold by Sears. It has just as good if not better image quality than my personal R61-D, plus the images are considerably brighter with a greater deep-sky range.
John,
(...sorry, I had overlooked this...)
But I do believe you...! Of course I do! That's why I was asking the question regarding the optics of various brands of 108s.
Yesterday again I was with the last one of my SYWs that I got straight from the Meudon Observatory in France where it was used for solar observations... I was doing Jupiter and Moon of course. As usual in side by side (I seem unable to observe with just a single scope... 
Again, after a while, the apo went to bed as I was having same details and calmer views in the SYW.
A 90mm, no matter how good, cannot match this... my own 90mm apos don't match this...
So, given that I am very sure you saw what you saw, and your analysis is indeed very detailed, a (if not "the") possible answer is in a difference in accuracy of these optics. What I did not know and what your acquaintance indeed confirmed.
To have a counter proof you can try the 90 discoverer side by side with a couple of apos (I did the SYW with AP, Tak and TMB).
Or -- better -- you could send me the Sears and I'll let you know
Be assured that it will be a loooooooooooong evaluation though... 
Let me know if I can be of more help for the R-61.
Take care
Max
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Quote:
In the meantime maybe Steve can help.
What do you want to know, specifically? Maybe I can check if I have other images...
Max
I don't need anything specific. Just more info/images to help me with my understanding of things. If either you or Steve have images of the inside of your case that would be great. If it doesn't happen, I am not to worried about it.
Thanks
--------------------
James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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gts055
super member
Reged: 05/01/06
Posts: 158
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Max, I agree with you in that an excellent 90mm cannot compete with a 108mm of similar quality. Aperture wins. Both my SYW 108mm and SYW f18 76mm are superb examples of achromat craftmanship. Mark
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Thanks for sharing your beautiful photographs with the rest of the group! Your collection is quite inspiring.
This attachment shows a photograph of my pedestal-mounted R61-D Royal Astro telescope. The pier was constructed from an odd assortment of Royal parts, including pieces from their LN-6E Newtonian and a separate R-74 pedestal model (sold by Sears in 1964-5 as #6336). My home computer screen shows an acceptably lit photo of the scope!
I prefer pedestals and piers over wooden tripods, which probably can be deduced from looking at the images of some of my other telescopes. Although heavier, pedestals offer a greater range in freedom in pointing when viewing objects directly overhead. Plus I just like the look of them.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Another view of the same Royal Astro R61-D. Note the heavy-duty accessory tray, one of my favorite features found on some of the company's better pedestal models.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Some things about the two photographs of my pedestal-mounted R61-D achromatic refractor telescope. Reflected in the mirror of the Drexel triple dresser is a 2.4-inch telescope made by Asahi Pentax. In the reflection you may also see a companion 50mm Pentax refractor on top of a Drexel high chest. If you cannot read the writing on the white sheet of paper permanently tacked on the wall just to the left of the Royal telescope, it says (this is my personal slogan):
"KNOWLEDGE IS INFINITE, SINCE THERE ARE AN INFINITE NUMBER OF UNIVERSES TO ACCESS INFORMATION FROM."
There is also a plastic blow-up globe of our night sky sitting to the lower right of the pedestal mount, and a book of constellation cards rests nearby. A Lafayette Radio Electronics 3" f/12 optical tube assembly, also a Royal product, sits behind the celestial globe on the Drexel mirrored chest.
A small Replogle moon globe sits directly behind the R61-D instrument on the carved Drexel Chippendale nightstand, while my Herschel II cup lies to its immediate left. Illuminating the scene is an Aladdin Lamp (alacite) and the yellow-greenish light from an overhead fluorescent fixture.
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
This attachment shows a photograph of my pedestal-mounted R61-D Royal Astro telescope. The pier was constructed from an odd assortment of Royal parts, including pieces from their LN-6E Newtonian and a separate R-74 pedestal model (sold by Sears in 1964-5 as #6336).
John,
Very beautiful set up indeed. And also very functional!
Tell me: you got setting circles on that mount, which are not displayed in the catalogues...
Are those coming from another mount...?!
Thanks,
Max
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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James and Max
Glad to help - Max nice photos
Still to hear from John though on my question.
Pic 1
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Pic 2
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Pic 3
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Steve,
What about your manual?
Is that different from mine? Apart from the language, of course...
Did you scan it...?!
Thanks
Max
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Max
You are up very early - Hope you are well.
I had the manual scanned and I have lost the file and my scanner is on the blink so I cannot scan again. I can tell you though that apart from the language mine is exactly the same.
I might try and take some shots.
Without Johns input I think the difference between the R61 and the R61D apart from age may be the setting circles on the mount which the R61 appears to lack
All the best
Steve
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Steve,
Indeed not getting much sleep lately... 
This being said, it's almost 11 am now... and in a short while I'm going to be on the move for the rest of the day.
Pls do try a new scan when you can.
Also, all the catalogues I have show our very same telescope *w/o setting* circles and all call it R61-D... so I start suspecting that is just a post-1965 (or whatever year) change in name... my own guess, of course.
Let's see what John says about his setting circles... I would not be very surprised if he used those of another mount by swapping them... Some 3" models mounts have had same axes dia. than those of the 2.4" and the 'transplantation' would in principle not be a big problem...
Later,
Max
PS/ Later tonight I might post some detailed pix of the brushed-alu mount. They are interestingindeed.
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Thanks for the pics Steve. What is the date of your royal????
Here is the wood box from my 1963 3 inch Tasco (Royal). Very similar layout. I don't see this kind of design in later Tascos and had not seen it at all until this post.
--------------------
James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
Edited by JamesE (10/28/09 10:36 AM)
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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James Yes the box is very similar
My scope dates fom around the late 50s to early 60s
According to third hand information, the original owners son advised it was bought by his dad in Queensland Aust' around that time but he could not remember the exact year
Steve
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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John,
I did some homework
Here you have some old catalogues regarding the R61-R61D.
Max
First on a Carton 1965 catalogue... priced at 29.500 Yen.
Note that after this year the R61 disappears from Carton catalogue, possibly not to interfere with the 76/1200 and 80/1200. From now on Carton will offer just 60/910 and 60/1000. The 60/1200 moves to the Royal-Astro catalogues...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Then a Royal-Astro 1970, with the change in name and the addition of a clamp for wide deep sky photography nearby the front lens (this will remain in all the R-A catalogues). No indication of price on this one...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Royal-Astro of 1975. Same specs.
In the last page, on the price list, the R61-D is now at 61.000 yen...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Royal-Astro catalogue of 1977. Still same specs.
The price is now 68.000 yen...
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Royal-Astro catalogue of 1979. Same specs and same price.
After this year, the Royal-Astro catalogue seems transformed into a Kenko/Vixen one. Instruments and mounts are quite different than before. Thus, as many others, the R61-D disappears.
That's all I have found so far.
Max
PS/ Still curious about your setting circles...
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Steve:
The setting circles on my R61-D are original and were not swapped out from another Royal telescope. (My case design may also be slightly different than yours in that it has a complete set of Styrofoam inserts.) I purchased it off of eBay several years ago; the seller either lived in Germany or got it from an amateur astronomer from that country. The previous owner also used a black ink marker to write the friendly greeting 'Gutentag' on the top of the wooden chest.
Did the earlier version R61 models from Royal Astro come with a flexible cable for RA slow motion slewing? Or is there just one large metal knob there?
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Hi John,
Good to know about the original circles. We learned something new here.
Both my R61 came with two flexible cables. One long for Decl and one even longer for RA.
Max
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donnw
super member
Reged: 08/03/08
Posts: 166
Loc: Maryland
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Hi John:
I just finally got a 60mm f/20 scope (Goto 105) but haven't had a clear sky yet to try it out. These Royals look quite impressive :-)
BTW, I like the pedestal mount. (And either a) you are single, b) that is a guest bedroom or c) your wife is most understanding or shares an interest in astronomy -- I don't think most of us could get away with a telescope in the bedroom ;-) Cheers!
--------------------
Peace & Blessings,
Donn Williams
Member - AAVSO
----------------------------------
Celestron EdgeHD 11 on CGE in SkyShed POD GL5
Meade Lightbridge 12", SN10, LX200 Classic 8", AR5, 314 Brass & ETX125PE
Lunt LS60T/DS, Stellarvue SV102ED, SV80BV, SV80/9D, SV NH2
Cave Astrolla 8", Zeiss Telementor II, Unitron 114, 128, 142
Towa 339, Royal Astro 76/1200, Pentax J80, Borg 100, AT 102-F/11
Goto 105, Various Sears/Tasco/Selsi/Towa 60-80mm's
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grendel
sage
Reged: 04/12/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Canterbury, Kent, UK
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I have one stored behind the chest of drawers in the bedroom, plus half a pair of binoculars on the bedside cabinet, but I think its because she hasnt spotted them yet, that I havent been told off yet.
grendel
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Steve:
Thanks for the information about the serial number of your personal R61 telescope! I have two complete newer version R61-D instruments, one of which has been remounted on the tall Royal Astro pier shown in the preceding photographs.
Upon inspection of the metal plate or plaque on top of the focusing mechanism, the pier-mounted telescope has the serial number 610464. Nothing unusual here, since the six-digit sequence of identifying numbers indicates that this is the 464th telescope made in the R61-D series.
TO MY UTTER DISBELIEF!!! (and pleasant surprise), this was the serial number off of my other R61-D telescope, which has been in storage for some time. Its serial number is:
610001
THIS IS THE FIRST R61-D TELESCOPE OFF OF THE ASSEMBLY LINE IN JAPAN! Since there were probably several thousand of these sold, this is like hitting the lottery. The mounting and tube design are absolutely identical to that of the higher numbered 610464. The case, accessories, viewfinder and bracket, and wooden tripod are also the same. This 610001 model came supplied with the wrap-around camera bracket.
A fair evaluation of the optical quality is impossible, since the previous owner had the habit of loaning out the scope to his friends or anyone else who showed an interest in astronomy. Along the way the objective lens was removed from its cell and now has several very large chips on the front element. Initial star tests and deep-sky observations show a poorly performing objective lens. (My other 610464 is absolutely superb in every regard and gives absolutely color free, pinpoint star images against a jet black sky background.)
I will try to post a picture of the 610001 focuser tag in the next several days for the group to see.
Edited by habsburg8 (10/30/09 12:25 AM)
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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The newly discovered 610001 serial number has some intriguing implications about the way Royal Astro's refractor telescopes were marked and distributed.
(1) Many of their refractor lines started off with XX0001, where XX = aperture in millimeters. This is a general rule and there are exceptions. (Why did Royal Astro start off the early version R61 telescopes with the number sequence 26....?)
(2) The first telescope manufactured in any refractor line, such as the 610001, was released for sale to the public and not held in some Royal Astro company vault.
(3) It can be deduced that the larger and very desirable Sears #6345 90mm f/16 models, which have an optical performance virtually identical to that of the smaller R61-D scopes but with increased aperture, started with the number sequence 990001. The highest number found so far in THAT sequence now stands at 990383, meaning that there are at least 383 of these collectable scopes around.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Steve:
I wonder if there is a difference in the tube diameters between the R61 and later R61-D models? I had originally hoped to place my Royal Astro 60mm f/20 on either a vintage Unitron #128 or #114 mounting. I soon discovered that the Royal Astro tube diameter was too big (not by much) to fit directly inside of a Unitron 2.4-inch cradle or saddle. (I tried two separate Unitron cradles, one from the 1950s and another one from the late 1970s.) Too bad, since this would have been be a good combination.
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
TO MY UTTER DISBELIEF!!! (and pleasant surprise), this was the serial number off of my other R61-D telescope, which has been in storage for some time. Its serial number is: 610001
THIS IS THE FIRST R61-D TELESCOPE OFF OF THE ASSEMBLY LINE IN JAPAN!
I will try to post a picture of the 610001 focuser tag in the next several days for the group to see.
John,
Fantastic...! Congratulations...!!!!! 
We await for the pix of the serial #1 
Max
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
(1) Many of their refractor lines started off with XX0001, where XX = aperture in millimeters. This is a general rule and there are exceptions. (Why did Royal Astro start off the early version R61 telescopes with the number sequence 26....?)
Thought about it myself... *maybe* the lens actual dia. is 2.6", so the 26, and then the clear aperture is 2.4"... just a wild guess...
Max
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Steve:
I wonder if there is a difference in the tube diameters between the R61 and later R61-D models? I had originally hoped to place my Royal Astro 60mm f/20 on either a vintage Unitron #128 or #114 mounting. I soon discovered that the Royal Astro tube diameter was too big (not by much) to fit directly inside of a Unitron 2.4-inch cradle or saddle. (I tried two separate Unitron cradles, one from the 1950s and another one from the late 1970s.) Too bad, since this would have been be a good combination.
John,
My R61 are indeed bigger than the Unitrons 128 and 114, but they still fill in the craddle...
Try to unscrew the locking bolt totally... then put the ota in the craddle and, at this moment, but the bolt back to close the craddle.
It does not close as tight as with the Unitron ota but it does close.
It is indeed a very handy combination. The 114 mount works very well with the R61 ota.
Hope it helps
Max
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Guys
I have a Polarex 60mm without a mount and I find that I can place the Unitron in the cradle of the R-61 mount. It requires more tightening of the bolts but the fits is perfect. This is how I deduced that the tube of both scopes might be the same.
However - I just measured both tubes - The R61 has a tube diameter of 70mm the polarex 68mm- so they differ slightly
By the way John what are the chances of owning the first scope off the production line!! Unbelievable ! Well done
Steve
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Here it is! Serial #610001, the very first R61-D refractor telescope off of the production line at Royal Astro Optical Industries in Tokyo, Japan.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Steve:
It is unfortunate that a previous inept and inexperienced user badly chipped the main objective lens. From what I can see of the lens, the optical designers in Japan put a superfine polish on the outer element. The opticians for Royal Astro undoubtedly put their best effort into its final figuring, since it was to be their featured premier R61-D model. I would have loved to have performed a side-by-side comparison test (if the lens in the 610001 telescope was perfect) with my other higher numbered R61-D telescope, but this wish vanished long ago with someone's carelessness.
The paint finish on the tube assembly seems to be more thickly applied (and more long lasting) than that on my other #610464 telescope, indicative of an extra effort on their part. This is my personal opinion, though.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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My other R61-D identifying tag, serial number 610464. (I cleaned the dust off after the picture was taken.) This is from my telescope that sits on the tall Royal Astro pier.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Unbelievable John. That is astounding. It is really too bad that the scope had its objective damaged. If anyone could appreciate the first scope off of a line, it is you. I suppose that is one telescope that you wouldn't sell at any price.
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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IanT
journeyman
Reged: 01/28/08
Posts: 9
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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Yours is bigger than mine! I was given a wee little 50mm Royal Astro-Opt refractor for my 13th birthday in 1965. It came in a lovely little wooden box which also had a tiny little metal tabletop tripod. In spite of it's small size I could see Saturns rings and Jupiters cloud bands and loads of other things. The limiting factor was the mount not the objective. In fact, the battered little refractor still performs well, especially with a decent eyepice! I have to say that its performance must have spoiled me because when I graduated to bigger 'scopes, planetary images always seemed a little disappointing even though they were larger. They never seemed quite so clear or so defined as the view obtained through my little telescope. I'd love to look through a big Royal!
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Shortly before dawn this morning (November 3rd) I had a chance to more thoroughly evaluate the optical qualities of the Royal Astro 60mm f/20 telescope possessing the first serial number of 610001. The full moon was setting in the west, while Orion was hovering low in the southwestern sky over the forested horizon. It was cold and almost overcast here in Oregon, since the temperature was just above freezing at 36 degrees and high clouds were starting to move in from the coast. However, most of the starry sky was transparent and free of smoke and dust from chimneys and the farm fields nearby. (I live in a rural neighborhood where the nearest city, population currently around 50,000, is over three miles away.)
Inserted into the drawtube of the focuser was a quality star diagonal from a classic 1960s Swift #839 refractor (supposedly a Takahashi product), and a separate adapter for using the larger-sized 1.25-inch eyepieces. I placed the tube assembly along with its matching equatorial mounting on its original adjustable wooden tripod for making the detailed observations. This arrangement is more transportable than using the big pedestal base and pier.
First target was the Trapezium in Messier 42 (The Orion Nebula). The 610001 objective lens, even with its chips, gave a textbook diffraction pattern among each of the four small stars. Even in bright autumn moonlight, the nebulosity showed up nicely, with lots of mottling and contrast. A range of powers and types of oculars were used, including a 19mm Panoptic and 4.8mm Nagler. My rating of the view here through the Royal R61-D was A to A+.
Next item on the celestial agenda was Sirius, the brightest star in Canis Major and in the entire night sky. Using a premium grade older model 7mm Nagler from the 1980s, brilliant Sirius presented a perfectly formed diffraction image. The Airy disk was especially sharp and well-defined. In the critical star testing I could not detect any secondary color around this bright object. The defocused image of the star on either side of focus was absolutely identical, similar to that shown for an ideal system in Dr. Suiter's famous book about star testing your telescope. However, there was just a little bit of light scatter, undoubtedly caused by the two big chips on the front element of the lens. My rating here of the scope's optical performance was A- to B+.
The overall optical performance of my other Royal R61-D scope, serial number 610464, is just slightly better. Of course it has a pristine condition objective lens that is free of scratches and chips, which accounts for the difference in performance.
Edited by habsburg8 (11/02/09 11:36 PM)
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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These are my notes of a direct comparison between the twin R61-D scopes against two slightly larger Sears #6345 refractors. (The Sears #6345 has a lens diameter and focal length of 90mm and 1400mm, respectively.)
In each case of star testing and when looking at deep-sky objects and Sol's planets the Sears 90mm refractor outperformed the R-61D. Images were brighter and better formed with superior detail, but with an equivalent contrast or sky background. However, there is some chromatic aberration on bright test stars, such as Vega. This is to be expected since no 90mm achromatic objective is absolutely color free.
My 990112, with a lower serial number, performs better optically than the other Sears 990152. My notes also indicate that it outperformed other previously owned Sears refractors bearing serial numbers 990370 and 990381. If you like the performance of the Royal Astro R61-D, then you are going to VERY, VERY MUCH like that of their 90mm model.
The Sears 90mm is the ONLY!!! Royal product that has compared favorably to that of the R61-D. I have owned about 10 Solaramas (a mix of #10TE's and #15TE's), half a dozen of the Sears 76.2mm #6339-A (and #6336) models, four Tasco 20TE's, and at least a dozen of the smaller 60mm #7TE and #7TE-5 telescopes. The #6345 90mm instrument is simply THE BEST!
(If I was in the market for another one of these, I would certainly pay a premium price for a model with a low serial engraving, especially an instrument marked 990200 and below.)
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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This is a photograph of the 610001 lens in its cell, showing the two dime-sized chips spaced about 120 degrees apart from each other on the front element. The lens cell design is identical to that used on Tasco's #7TE-5 models, another Royal Astro product from the 1960s and '70s.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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This is another shot of the metal tag on top of the focuser that shows the relevant telescope data. LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE ZEROES!
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Another Royal Astro telescope, this time a model marketed by Lafayette Radio Electronics as their "Arcturus." This particular instrument was purchased by the previous owner in 1961. (I have the original paperwork for the telescope.)
The serial number is 070723. I would interpret this as follows:
***The first digit in the sequence is the year in which the telescope was manufactured in Japan, or 1960.
***The second two digits, or '70,' are a direct link to the model number displayed in the Royal Astro telescope catalog. This would make it their Model No. R-70.
***The last three digits tell the order in which the telescope came off of the assembly line at the factory. In this case the "Arcturus" was the 723rd scope made that year.
Any other interpretations of the serial number(s)?
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desertrefugee
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 1215
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Any other interpretations of the serial number(s)?
No interpretations, but a few more numbers can be found in this thread. I'm not sure they follow the same convention, though - unless 1967-vintage instruments are more commonly encountered now . . .
Royal Serial Numbers
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"Illimitable ocean, without bound, Without dimension, where length, breadth, and height, And time, and place are lost." - Milton
-Darrell
Reflectors - 76 to 305mm (f4.7 to f9.2)
Refractors - 50 to 120mm (f5 to f16.7)
Binoculars - 6x15 to 22x100
N. Phoenix, AZ
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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I don't know John. My 15TEA is #670161. If the year was the first number that would put my scope as 1966 which is three years ahead of your observations that the Pier Mounted 76mm Tasco was only offered in '63.
What does seem fairly consistent from this thread and This Thread is that the second number is inline with the Objective size. 7=76.2mm, 6=60-62mm, 9=90mm etc.
The two conflicting matters is the Ozzie scopes and their second number and your R61 scopes first 2 digits.
I would probably agree with you that the last 3-4 digits are possibly run numbers but, I am not entirely convinced that the first number is a year. I think it's either Regional number (like DVD's) or an internal number used for tracking. Ie....Royal made it's brand, as well as Sears, and Tascos, etc, sold all over the world and the company probably needed to segregate it somehow.
I would suspect that the first number in initial runs would follow suit to your model number theory. My thoughts are that one aspect of your numbering scheme only seems applicable or exclusive to only a Royal Astro marketed scope.
Anyways, my two cents for what it's worth.
Cheers,
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James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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James:
My first inclination was to identify the first digit in the sequence with some in-house accounting number at Royal Astro. However, I decided to go with the majority rule and associate it with the year of manufacture. Upon further consideration, who knows what it represents?
Also confusing is the sequence of numbers found on the Sears #6345 refractor, also a Royal product. They all have a combination of 990XXX. I would assume that 90 is the clear aperture in millimeters, but it is possible that only the second '9' in the sequence corresponds to the lens diameter. If the first digit is the year of manufacture (in this case 1969), then that would mean that all 600 or so scopes were made in that single year. Since Sears starting selling these in late 1969, this adds to the confusion.
The last three (and possibly four) digits definitely correspond to the production number of the scope.
Breaking away from the tradition of numbering scopes in this fashion is how Royal tagged their R61-D models. The first two digits in the six-digit sequence of 610001 are almost certainly associated with Royal's catalog number of R-61D.
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stevenk
super member
Reged: 07/01/05
Posts: 143
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
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John
Fantastic write up
To think that you have the first off the line - amazing!
Steve
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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I think John was destined to get a first off the line. The best part of the story is that he had it all that time and didn't even realize it. This is becoming a very interesting thread. I think James has a good point regarding the his 15TEA. Now maybe it might make sense that the in-house scopes, those with the Astro or Royal Astro plates have the first number as the year. As John pointed out the Sears 6345 would make sense for sure.
Anyway I've done my own analysis on all this and I took all the sequences of numbers and then I subtracted Pi from each of them. Applying a simple first order derivative to them (using the chain rule, of course), I came up with a series of simultaneous equations. Now solving each of those and then applying Eigenvectors to the entire series of numbers, and then crunching those numbers on the 1980 Seymour Cray supercomputer with liquid nitrogen cooling (which I incidentally picked up on ebay at buy it now pricing), this was my result ------- 
Any ideas, other than to suggest that I should have had coffee before I touched the computer today...... or maybe go back to bed
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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I have a related question on in house optical engineers at Royal. In the manual of the 839 Swift model that I recently sold  it stated on the front page that the Swift 839 was designed by Shosuke Kojima, one of the foremost telescope designers in Japan. Does anyone know if he influenced other designs or ever worked for Royal Astro Optical Inc? If not, who were the recognized Optical engineers and what is the history of Royal Astro telescopes? How long have they been around? Is the consensus that Royal Astro, at the time, produced the best of all the individual makers out there (Royal, Towa, Kenko), or was the Nippon Kogaku or Goto brand the cream of the crop? I'm interested to know if those who are Unitron aficianados believe that the Unitron lenses are the best. I'm certainly no expert on this, but after looking through a few different brands, I have my thoughts on the subject. What is everyone else's take on the best at that time (late '50s through mid '70s)??  BTW refractors only. Maybe this should be a completely different thread and we could take a poll on the best overall manufacturer of classic refractors??
All these questions I have...
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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James:
Another image of a metal tag from a Tasco #10TE Solarama refractor telescope. As I recall, the rest of the focuser body was put on the tailpiece of a Jaegers 6-inch F/15 optical tube that I had custom fabricated for the Great Mars Opposition of 2003.
According to the 'best' interpretation available so far, the engraved serial number of 871061 can be interpreted as follows:
***The first digit of '8' indicates the year of manufacture, or 1968.
***The second digit of '7' indicates the aperture class of the scope in millimeters, in this case representing those with a 76.2mm diameter objective lens.
***The last four digits of '1061' indicate its position in the production run.
Am I correct in making these assumptions?
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Anyway I've done my own analysis on all this and I took all the sequences of numbers and then I subtracted Pi from each of them. Applying a simple first order derivative to them (using the chain rule, of course), I came up with a series of simultaneous equations. Now solving each of those and then applying Eigenvectors to the entire series of numbers, and then crunching those numbers on the 1980 Seymour Cray supercomputer with liquid nitrogen cooling (which I incidentally picked up on ebay at buy it now pricing), this was my result ------- :confused
I peed myself laughing Rich.   
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James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Ha, ha,
Hi James,
I was bored this morning, so I tried to add some levity. I was chuckling as I was writing that nonsense. Glad it gave you a laugh.
In respect to the numbers, this really is very interesting. I hope someone might take up one of the questions I posed in the next posting I made. I am interested to see what the consensus is for the Astro Optical vs. Towa, vs Goto, vs, Nippon Kogaku, vs. Kenko, vs Unitron, etc... John would probably be the one to look to, but I'd love to hear Clint and Brian as they are definitely Uni experts, and Clint on the Nippon Kogaku front.
Have a good night my friend, I'm going back to the political scene on TV..
Rich
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Hey John,
You've flushed out a lot with the numbers already. I am just humbly giving my perspective. I would probably agree with most of these assumptions so far except that the Australian 76mm's and your Royal 60mm's numbers are so far the only incongruent pieces to this theory.
I would agree to take the position of using the first digit as year stamp for right now though, I am still not fully convinced that the first number is a year stamp.
Something occurred to me last night. I am wondering if the first two digits are flipped on the Australian and Royal scopes numbers to represent the Eastern Hemisphere.
Anyways just a few thoughts. I like this thread, it is revealing more each time.
Cheers and thanks John for your work.
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James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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desertrefugee
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 1215
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Am I correct in making these assumptions?
Well, at first I was skeptical, but I'm beginning to think you're on to something here, John. This is exactly the code I was hoping to break in the compilation from my thread referenced above.
However, the two that stumped me then and still give me pause are the two Royal instruments that ended up in Australia:
Quote:
740483....Royal..................Steve(Aust)
741117....Royal..(long OTA)...(Aust), (no drawtube!)
Clearly, these two telescopes (76.2mm) do not conform to the "7" second digit characteristic.
We're close, but there appears to be a wild card on the native Royal units.
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"Illimitable ocean, without bound, Without dimension, where length, breadth, and height, And time, and place are lost." - Milton
-Darrell
Reflectors - 76 to 305mm (f4.7 to f9.2)
Refractors - 50 to 120mm (f5 to f16.7)
Binoculars - 6x15 to 22x100
N. Phoenix, AZ
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JamesE
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/07
Posts: 1112
Loc: Westbank, BC, Canada
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Darrell
I am sorry but for some reason, I didn't read that the Australian 76mm's were Royal products in your initial thread. I though they were Tasco's. If that is the case then it would make sense that Royal would number their scopes differently than their other production lines. It's their BABY!
But, that gets contradicted by the one 60mm royal that is #262017.
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James
(Thanks to Attilla for the Clear Sky charts)
Current Projects : Tasco 15TEA - 3 inch pier mounted planetary scope
Priorities : Wife, Kids
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grendel
sage
Reged: 04/12/09
Posts: 243
Loc: Canterbury, Kent, UK
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Perhaps the first number indicates the company it was produced for? and there was a code for each supplier?
Grendel
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
Quote:
Am I correct in making these assumptions?
Well, at first I was skeptical, but I'm beginning to think you're on to something here, John. This is exactly the code I was hoping to break in the compilation from my thread referenced above.
However, the two that stumped me then and still give me pause are the two Royal instruments that ended up in Australia:
Quote:
740483....Royal..................Steve(Aust)
741117....Royal..(long OTA)...(Aust), (no drawtube!)
Clearly, these two telescopes (76.2mm) do not conform to the "7" second digit characteristic.
We're close, but there appears to be a wild card on the native Royal units.
I am getting a bit lost myself in all these serials...
I would just sum-up my own Royal-Astro, so that someone can double-check the hypotheses
76/1200 s/n 272691 (label: Palomar)
60/1200 s/n 260982 (label: Royal-Astro)
60/1200 s/n 960248 (label: SPI)
Hope this helps
Max
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
I have a related question on in house optical engineers at Royal. In the manual of the 839 Swift model that I recently sold it stated on the front page that the Swift 839 was designed by Shosuke Kojima, one of the foremost telescope designers in Japan. Does anyone know if he influenced other designs or ever worked for Royal Astro Optical Inc? If not, who were the recognized Optical engineers and what is the history of Royal Astro telescopes? How long have they been around? Is the consensus that Royal Astro, at the time, produced the best of all the individual makers out there (Royal, Towa, Kenko), or was the Nippon Kogaku or Goto brand the cream of the crop? I'm interested to know if those who are Unitron aficianados believe that the Unitron lenses are the best. I'm certainly no expert on this, but after looking through a few different brands, I have my thoughts on the subject. What is everyone else's take on the best at that time (late '50s through mid '70s)?? BTW refractors only. Maybe this should be a completely different thread and we could take a poll on the best overall manufacturer of classic refractors??
Rich,
I am interested as well re old telescope designers in Japan, but I found it almost impossible to get infos. Maybe Galakuma could help in this regard (but we should open a new thread).
Regarding optical quality, as per my own experience (but I heard others with similar findings) Unitrons are in general variable, for the company was doing by hand all the mechanics in house, while getting lenses outside from various sources. I can tell you that mine are not optically my best classics. Still, they usually perform well. But certainly their lenses are not the best.
To my eyes, the value of a Unitron is in the whole mechanical package and in the sound wealth of accessories. They are *very beautiful* telescopes of truly remarkable mechanics and credible optical quality.
Just my two cents.
Max
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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A close-up view the focuser tag from one of my Tasco 20T pedestal refractors. These were listed in Royal's catalog as Model No. R-102. There are some slight variations in the mechanical construction from early to later models, most noticeably in the top portion of the cradle and in the motor drive assembly.
The serial number on this one is 910841, which can be intrepreted to mean that it was the 41st telescope in the R-102 series (108mm clear aperture) made in the year 1969. Since the previous owner purchased this particular scope in 1969-70, it tends to support the belief that the first digit in the sequence represents the year of manufacture. Obviously Royal Astro did not intend to make too many of these per year for export.
Formation of image, clarity and contrast are all very similar to an excellent performing Tasco #10TE 76.2mm Solarama refractor, but with increased aperture. The performance is not quite as good as my R61-D in overall image formation, and my 'Sears' 90mm refractor beats it hands down on deep-sky objects and isolated star fields.
However, the amount of planetary detail that can be seen through the larger 4 1/4-inch pedestal-mounted refractor is slightly better than that of the Sears 90mm, but not by much. In direct side-by-side comparison tests on Jupiter the 108mm clearly showed more intricate detail in and around the Great Red Spot, and just a tad bit more cloud structure in the Jovian atmosphere.
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: bellevue ne.
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John....Here's the focuser tag on my 20TE after a complete restoration that was just recently completed. Inside the motor cover is a date that reads...1969-5.  Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Another one of my favorite Royal Astro scopes and a refractor that compares very favorably optically to the R61-D is this S-5, a 60mm model with a focal length of 910mm. It has considerably better optics--sharper images and improved contrast--than Tasco's venerable #7TE (also a Royal product). However, I like the mechanical construction and paint finish of Tasco's version better.
This particular scope was featured in an article titled CLASSIC TELESCOPES, which appeared in the July 2008 issue of The Rosette Gazette Newsletter.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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I saw one of those on ebay awhile back. I was tempted to bid on it, but just too many scopes at the time. It's the only one I've ever seen.
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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A photograph of my R61-D, serial number 610001, sitting on its equatorial mounting with matching adjustable wooden tripod. The type of wood used in the tripod legs looks like Ash, forming an attractive combination with the gray enamel on the mounting just above.
Attached to the front part of the long optical tube is Royal's camera bracket, an accessory that was advertised along with the main scope in their catalogs. It consists of two thin pieces of felt-lined hinged metal, similar to the construction of the flimsy cradle rings used on the larger Sears 90mm imported refractors.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Really nice photo John. Looks great!
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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Happy-Idiot
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/06/06
Posts: 2803
Loc: 3rd Rock
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Quote:
Another Royal Astro telescope, this time a model marketed by Lafayette Radio Electronics as their "Arcturus." This particular instrument was purchased by the previous owner in 1961. (I have the original paperwork for the telescope.)
The serial number is 070723. I would interpret this as follows:
***The first digit in the sequence is the year in which the telescope was manufactured in Japan, or 1960.
***The second two digits, or '70,' are a direct link to the model number displayed in the Royal Astro telescope catalog. This would make it their Model No. R-70.
***The last three digits tell the order in which the telescope came off of the assembly line at the factory. In this case the "Arcturus" was the 723rd scope made that year.
Any other interpretations of the serial number(s)?
Very interesting, you maybe onto something, that would make my Lafayette an R-71.
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Brian
A small scope that gets used often is a better investment than a big scope that stays in the closet.
Unitrons, you spend more time looking at them than you do through them.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Upon further consideration and with input from other knowledgeable members of this group, the current best interpretation of your focuser label is as follows:
***The first digit of '2' represents the exact year in which your telescope was made, in this case 1962.
***The next number in the sequence, or '7,' is the aperture class of the telescope. All of Royal's refractors with an aperture of 76.2mm are identified with this numeral '7.'
***The last four digits indicate the telescope's position in the production run. In your case, the highly collectable Lafayette 'Arcturus' telescope was the 1557th unit made by Royal Astro.
This particular model was labeled H-5 in their catalogues from the early 1960s. An article about Lafayette's 'Arcturus' refractor can be found in THE ROSETTE GAZETTE NEWSLETTER, published monthly by the Rose City Astronomers of Portland, Oregon. To access the article, titled 'Classic Telescopes: Delving into the deep-sky delights of Scorpius with a Lafayette 3-inch refractor,' go to www.rca-omsi.org/ Select 'Newsletter' from the list of activities at left. Then pick the archived June 2008 issue of the club's newsletter.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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This particular label is from a Tasco 20T 4 1/4-inch pier-mounted equatorial refractor, purchased by its previous owner sometime in either 1963 or 1964. This is the exact same type of instrument pictured for many years in Tasco's telescope catalog. These early models have an exposed motor drive mechanism, which was later improved and encased in a hard plastic box. The upper saddle assembly also has a slightly different configuration than that found on later models.
From what I have heard and by looking through my instrument with serial number 210006, these early version Tasco 20T refractors are not as good as ones sold in the late '60s and beyond. It is therefore a poorer optical performer than my other Tasco 20T, serial number 910841, and much less so than the smaller R61-D telescope.
*Serial number interpreted as:
2 = date of manufacture or 1962.
100 = aperture of the telescope in millimeters, or 100mm.
06 = position in the production run, or the 6th Royal Astro R-102 model made in that year.
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desertrefugee
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 1215
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
***The next number in the sequence, or '7,' is the aperture class of the telescope. All of Royal's refractors with an aperture of 76.2mm are identified with this numeral '7.'
I still don't think that's the whole story. I'd be remiss on this discussion if I did not reiterate the two 76.2mm Royal instruments now in Australia, owned by esteemed members of this forum, that bear the number "4" as their second digit.
So, while I do not dispute the typical significance of the digit occupying that position, there is another factor at play here - either in the numbering of the native Royal scopes themselves, or in the regional distribution of the instruments.
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"Illimitable ocean, without bound, Without dimension, where length, breadth, and height, And time, and place are lost." - Milton
-Darrell
Reflectors - 76 to 305mm (f4.7 to f9.2)
Refractors - 50 to 120mm (f5 to f16.7)
Binoculars - 6x15 to 22x100
N. Phoenix, AZ
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Quote:
These early models have an exposed motor drive mechanism, which was later improved and encased in a hard plastic box.
John are you positive about this? My box enclosure is steel. Put a magnet on it. We must strive for accuracy here at every turn you know. Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Jae
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/13/06
Posts: 559
Loc: near Boston
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Mike, I had the same situation with John's interpretation of Towa 339 focusing knobs. He wrote it was plastic in his very informative newsletter but I was convinced it was metal as it felt cold and very solid. It wasn't magnetic so scraped a small tip of my knob and it was aluminum. I'm with you we must strive for utmost accuracy in this forum
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Jae
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: bellevue ne.
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JAE....My exact feelings that I posted way back about my 80mm Selsi. They were too cold to the touch to be plastic. Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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Quote:
A photograph of my R61-D, serial number 610001, sitting on its equatorial mounting with matching adjustable wooden tripod. The type of wood used in the tripod legs looks like Ash, forming an attractive combination with the gray enamel on the mounting just above.
John,
Found another difference apart from the setting circles.
Both my R61 have a different kind of tripod. Yours look like the one used in Sears scopes.
The legs in the early R61 ar not rounded but squared and straight, as you may see from the pix I uploaded.
Just for your info.
Max
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
This post is in response to your request for more information about the outer casing used for the RA motor drive, found on Tasco's 20T 4 1/4-inch Observatory Model. In turns out that we are BOTH RIGHT! Depending on the particular 20T telescope made by Royal Astro Optical Industries Co. Ltd., they chose either a hard plastic or metal RA housing.
The same exact drive unit was also used on the Sears 90mm F/16 refractor and on Optica b/c's 6-inch Newtonian, again both Royal products. As the following sequence of photographs will show, the drive mechanism consists of either molded plastic or steel.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
This first photograph shows the original drive unit from my Tasco 20T with a serial number of 210006. It is from an early version of Tasco's 4/1/4-inch Observatory model, with a date of manufacture sometime during the early 1960s, possibly in the year 1962 from an examination of the serial number.
Safety conscious Tasco (and possibly at the urging of Underwriter Laboratories) later decided to switch to the enclosed box-like housing. The exposed bundle of wires constituted a shock hazard, plus they were not very visually appealing to potential buyers. A former owner had unsuccessfully attempted to rewire the drive unit.
The black round motor drive, of solid metal construction, is much heavier than those made for the smaller Tasco #15TE 3-inch F/16 Planetary and 7TE-5 2.4-inch F/17 Solarama refractors.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
In this photograph of my #210006, I have replaced the older RA motor drive having the exposed wires with a safer one from a Sears #6345 (90mm) equatorial refractor. The internal mechanism and dimensions of the Sears RA drive is identical to that used on newer version 20T telescopes, such as the one that you own.
The outside cover with the markings is without question hard plastic; anyone could tell this by just lightly tapping the box or by its feel and look. It should also be noted that the RA mounting hardware and brackets used on both the Sears 90mm and Tasco 20T equatorial mounting heads are the same and interchangeable.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
This photograph shows my other Tasco #20T refractor, possessing serial number 910841. The telescope was purchased by its previous owner sometime in either 1969 or 1970, and is all original. It came supplied with the box-like motor drive mechanism as shown.
You can instantly tell that the material used for the outer drive casing is hard plastic. Look at those deep gouges on the outside edges and the scratch pattern! Metal simply does not do this. Plus a light tapping showed hard plastic and it was not cool to the touch like the rest of the scope.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
This photograph shows another Royal Astro product imported and sold by Optica b/c of Oakland, California during the 1960s. In Royal's telescope catalog it had the number LN-6E and was described as a pedestal-mounted 6-inch Newtonian reflector. (It truly does have superb optics, better than my best performing RV-6 Dynascope and Cave Astrola 6-inch Model 'A' Deluxe.) The finish on the mounting head and pedestal base is black crinkle rather than polished enamel.
Again, the motor drive unit is identical to that found on Royal's R-102, sold by Tasco as their #20T Observatory Model. However, the bracket for attaching it to the refractor's mounting is slightly different.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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I forgot to mention that the RA motor drive box or casing on the LN-6E mounting head shown in the previous picture is also made out of hard plastic. So far, this plastic material is winning out over metal.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
BINGO! This detailed shot of an equatorial mounting head from one of my Sears 90mm refractors definitely shows a motor drive casing made out of steel. (The post cap and latitude adjustment is from my other LN-6E scope, placed on this mounting so that I could attach it to a pier. However, the drive unit has not been switched out and is totally original as received from the factory.)
In this case, ANYONE could tell that this is metal and not plastic. It is simply cold, hard steel! Why Royal Astro used hard plastic cases on some of their scopes and not on others totally escapes me. Just another quirk of that famous Japanese telescope making company!!!
Mike, I think that you beat the odds and got lucky in your telescope purchase, having a Tasco 20T with a metal RA outercasing. I actually highly prefer those over the cheaper plastic versions.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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John,
My motor casing on the Sears 90mm I have is hot hard plastic. The number on mine is 990141, so they must have mixed and matched? Some had metal and some had plastic. Interesting thread.
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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rfic1
member
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 95
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The drive casing on my 90mm Sears is also plastic.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Quote:
The drive casing on my 90mm Sears is also plastic.
Have you ever posted photos of your Sears, and if not, could you? Also, are you on John's list of 90mm owners?
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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akman1955
sage
Reged: 09/07/09
Posts: 362
Loc: Alaska, USA
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Post deleted by akman1955
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Hi John,
I haven't gotten any as far as I know, but I'll check again and contact you. I'll PM you a little later. See ya, Rich
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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rfic1
member
Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 95
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Currently the scope is being refurbished. This was the scope recently for sale on A-mart. Aside from the scratches on the tubes and the dented dew shield the scope was in better shape than I expected. The scope is on John's list.
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woodsman
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 1072
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
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Excellent, I had forgotten about that one. Post some photos when you finish it up. Rich
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artisticwoods
C-14 Orange Tube, C-8, C-5, C-90 Astro Model, C8 Schmidt Camera 8" f1.5, C5.5 Schmidt Camera f1.65, SPI 42mm f/19 Refractor, Sears 90mm f/15.56 Ref, Sears 80mm f/15 Ref, Swift 77mm f/13 Model 831, Scope 60mm f/11.7, Sears 50mm f/12
Unitron Model 140 75mm/1200mm, Unitron model 128 60mm/900mm
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
Although sheer speculation at this point, Royal's use of hard plastic over metal for the outer motor drive casing may have been cost motivated. Steel is more expensive than plastic, which tends to drive the final price of the telescope up. I suspect that Royal's first scopes off of the assembly line with the new boxlike drive configuration starting in about 1967-68 used exclusively steel in their construction, the company later switching to the cheaper hard plastic.
Owners of the rare Tasco 20T and Sears 90mm have a habit of removing the right ascension motor drive unit along with its bracket from their telescopes. (I am also guilty of this, but for good reasons.) Unfortunately some of them forget to reattach the drive unit, and when their scopes reach the secondary market they are long gone. This has happened to me on several occasions; two of my Sears 90mm scopes, marked with serial numbers 990152 and 990383 (now sold), were both missing the entire RA motor drive assembly when purchased.
Interestingly, the outer motor drive casing on my current Sears 90mm instrument possessing serial number of 990112 is PLASTIC. So far, every Sears 90mm with a serial number of 990112 and up uses a plastic RA casing, showing that those having metal boxes are relatively rare.
The last image in my sequence of images is of an oddball Sears 90mm mounting that I purchased from a co-worker in the 1990s. This particular Sears mounting uses a METAL RA outer drive casing. It was part of a bigger telescope purchase, where I also got a circa 1961 Cave Astrola 8-inch F/8 Newtonian with Alika K. Herring mirror. The co-worker did not have the rest of the Sears 90mm scope--missing was everything else including the coveted optical tube assembly. In the intervening years I have tried unsuccessfully to track him and the rest of the scope down. I strongly suspect that this was part of a Sears 90mm refractor with a very low serial number, possibly below 990100.
Royal's smaller R61-D 60mm F/20 refractor also underwent several minor design changes in the mid-to-late 1960s, but these seemed to be for the better. Adding setting circles and Styrofoam inserts for the wooden storage chest were some of the more important upgrades.
Edited by habsburg8 (11/11/09 07:06 PM)
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
You might consider adding a pair of customized Parallax mounting rings to your existing telescope accessory list. I ordered them directly from Parallax Instruments Company--owner Joe Nastasi took my order and offered helpful hints as to how best to get my R61-D tube to fit properly. His company lined the insides with extra cork to compensate for the slightly different tube and ring diameters. As I recall, this set was originally sold for refractors with an outside diameter of 75mm, and probably already in use by Unitron owners.
I was extremely pleased with the quality craftsmanship and finish. These rings allow owners to use their existing R61 (or R61-D) tube assemblies on a variety of different mountings, or if they wish simply as a guidescope on bigger instruments.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Several nights ago I was able to compare the R61-D telescope directly against a KING achromatic refractor. For those unfamiliar with the latter brand of instrument, these were made in Japan during the 1960s and '70s by (to the best of my knowledge) Kenko (Circle 'K').
The first photograph shows the focuser region of the KING refractor telescope. It has the same lens diameter (D = 60mm) and focal length (F = 1200mm) as the R61-D from Royal Astro Optical Industries Co. Ltd.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Here is a closeup shot of the KING 2.4-inch diameter objective lens. As you can see, the doublet is mounted in a non-adjustable cell which is threaded on the outside to accept the dewshield. There are the standard three metal foil spacers at 120 degree intervals. The glass if free of chips and scratches--the previous owner 'babied' the telescope and it is in almost factory fresh condition.
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Max:
Here are my notes detailing the optical qualities of both the KING and Royal Astro R61-D 2.4-inch f/20 telescopes in side-by-side comparison tests.
The late autumn night sky here in Oregon was very dark and transparent, since a storm front had just passed through the region and had cleared the air. The seeing was not the best with wavering star images at the worst moments, but in brief periods of calm high powers could be used successfully on Gemini's deep-sky splendors.
Although exceptionally good by amateurs' standards, the KING optical system falls short when put up against the R61-D. On Messier 35 in Gemini, both scopes at low to medium power showed pinpoint star images. No complaint here at all about their performance!
However, a minor but noticeable difference in the ability to discern faint deep-sky objects arose when looking at M35's companion cluster. The R61-D easily picked it out from the star strewn field near the main cluster, but the KING scope required many long moments using averted vision to get a reasonable view.
The next target was the multiple star Castor. In a Tele Vue 40mm Plossl, both scopes showed a stunning white orb, and Castor C was easily seen. When the magnification was increased, the KING and R61-D both produced textbook and very satisfying Airy disks and diffraction rings. Both scopes easily split the double star into its two components--the primary star was a brilliant white, while the secondary had an almost bluish-green hue.
Not a trace of secondary color could be detected around Castor at any magnification, indicative of two superbly figured objective lenses. However, the sharpness, brilliance and especially the contrast was better in the R61-D refractor. It seemed to have a 'cleaner' overall image.
In summary, both refractors would pass any critical test, but the edge definitely goes to the R61-D.
Edited by habsburg8 (11/24/09 01:01 AM)
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mikey cee
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/18/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: bellevue ne.
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John....Here is a finished shot of my metal drive box. I touched up the small rust pits and dings on the side. Of course the magnet stuck to the box when I had it off to replace the rotted rubber gromit. But from looking at the unpainted interior I instinctively new it wasn't plastic. I didn't mess with the embossing on the face. Maybe bleach and a Q-tip might clean it up. But I don't want to ruin it so it's staying as is. Mike
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7x35 and 10x50 sears tower binocs, 3" f/10 edmunds reflector, 2.4" f/11.7 manon refractor, 6" f/8 jaegers refractor, "The 8 Ball" 8" f/13.3 brandt refractor, 3" f/15.8 sans&streiffe refractor, 3.1" f/15 selsi refractor(towa 339), 2.4" f/15 sears refractor, selsi 30x30mm spyglass, criterion 5-draw 25x45x75x spyglass(1957), 4.25" f/14.8 tasco 20te.
Edited by mikey cee (11/23/09 12:18 PM)
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habsburg8
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/07/05
Posts: 802
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Mike:
A most superb job of restoration!
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Max Lattanzi
sage
Reged: 06/27/07
Posts: 216
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John,
Just sent you detailed pix of the two focusers with analysis (and some other goodies... )
Later,
Max
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