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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #3595641 - 01/31/10 02:31 PM

Quote:

Lew Awsome as always!!!
Dan this was not built by anyone trying to make a living building telescopes. No way!!! Who ever built this was a total showoff and must have been friends with Byers, Cave or Carrol or all of them... I would bet you that if you contact some of the guys at the River side ATMers They can tell you who built this thing. I am sure he made the pilgramige to RTMC at least once to show that dude off....



I need to post a note in the ATM forum here, maybe somebody knows about it. The Seller should be back soon and she should have some info or at least a couple leads.

Quote:

My words of advice I never follow, until the AP landed in my lap. Go slow and dont hit the parts with hammers!!! LOL For the any gears or other parts you need call Bob Burns he can make new custom ones, Emory cloth works wonders....



Yep, I take my time but sometimes get a little excited to get 'er done. I do sometimes use a rubber mallet to persuade things, but if you got to use a regular hammer on something, that usually means that there is something still keeping whatever is being banged on from moving!

Quote:

This scope could be heart stoping and the mirror has a really good chance of being a lulu. know one would put this much work in a mount system and throw a junk mirror in it.



I think so too, especially with the Brandon's included and the storage case just for the mirror. It's all top notch! I hope we can find out who made it so it can have a name. "The Clark 8" f/8"? If it remains a mystery, I'll go nuts!


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3595663 - 01/31/10 02:48 PM Attachment (75 downloads)

The last area going from top to bottom is the stand. 2 of the 3 leveling bolts, 9/16" in diameter came out no problem after being soaked with liquid wrench over night, but one of them would not budge. Well, it budged a little bit after heating it up, but my little propane torch wont get it hot enough to remove it so I will either take it to a shop or just hack off both ends, smooth them down and then drill a hole for caster wheels instead.

The legs are definitely Cave, but I don't think the column is - it's aluminum and I think Cave used steel here.

The way the legs mount to the column is different too, instead of 3/8" studs and wing nuts it uses bolts and knurl nuts that slide through the keyways on the column then go up and tightened down. These bolts are 1/4". There's no indication that the legs ever had 3/8" studs in them and I also noticed that the legs do not have the Instrument Grey paint on them either, just some old white paint over the aluminum. Maybe the builder got the legs from Cave without anything drilled in them as part of the project. It probably would look nice if the legs and column were not painted to match the rest of the aluminum on the mount and tube.

I think one goal of the telescope's design was to make it light as possible without loosing any strength. The only major steel parts are the RA and Dec shafts, and they're hollow, but still sturdy.


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reddog15
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/09/09

Loc: Wyoming
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3595701 - 01/31/10 03:02 PM

Well Dan I know I,m on pins and needles

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: reddog15]
      #3596267 - 01/31/10 07:37 PM Attachment (82 downloads)

The RA shaft housing is removed from the base. Plastic layers on either side allow for smooth latitude movement. A 3/8" allen socket bolt goes through the whole assembly with a slot on one side to allow adjustment within a few degrees (looks like 15-degrees or so) without going too far and the latitude adjustment bolt allows for finer adjustment.

The mount must have been out in the sun for a while judging by the differences between exposed and not exposed surfaces with black anodized coating.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3596278 - 01/31/10 07:43 PM Attachment (67 downloads)

Here's a closeup of the latitude adjustment assembly. Its rust is typical of everything on the mount that's rusted!

I am going to try this stuff called Evapo-Rust to remove it. As much rust as possible needs to be removed before taking these things apart as it is very easy to damage the threads where steel meets brass or aluminum or the bolts can seize and cause even more problems.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3596288 - 01/31/10 07:51 PM Attachment (67 downloads)

The Dec clutch assembly is adjusted with 6 spring loaded allen socket head bolts. The RA clutch is similar. The ends of these bolts on the Dec clutch assembly were exposed to the elements with about 1/16" of their tips rusted up. All but one of them came out okay, the last one seized up, so I drilled off the head and removed the ring and gear. I will use my trusty cobalt left-handed drill bit to finish removing what's left of it.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3596293 - 01/31/10 07:56 PM Attachment (75 downloads)

Here's a pic of the Dec clutch all apart. You can see what's left of that one bolt on top. The yellow stuff just below the flange looks like dried up grease. I used a rubber mallet to slowly bop the Dec circle off the shaft.

Everything on this mount is a tight fit with extremely close tolerances! This makes it a little more time consuming to take things apart, but so far, things are going good!


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: actionhac]
      #3596544 - 01/31/10 10:10 PM

Quote:

One thing you could try is see if Morvac Optical Coating is still in around and have them check the records for Clark.

Also remove the secondary mirror to see if anything on the back of it.

Robert




I removed the spider and secondary holder and on the back of the secondary is "M. Clark". The secondary is 1.875" and thick at 7/8". The coatings do not look as good as the primary and the edges are worn off. So, it's a little more info - "M", but not much!

Also, the hand writing on the back of the secondary does not match the hand writing on the back of the primary. And, on the primary, the name is in pencil while on the secondary, it's in ink.

The spider and secondary holder are well built as well, but more on that later!

Edited by Datapanic (01/31/10 10:14 PM)


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3601401 - 02/03/10 12:38 AM Attachment (92 downloads)

As Tim would say, Just so ya know I ain't been slacking....

The Evapo-Rust stuff works great! Here is a pic of some smaller pieces soaking...


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3601411 - 02/03/10 12:40 AM Attachment (84 downloads)

And afterwards...

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3601417 - 02/03/10 12:47 AM

This scope has some serious rust! The first parts had to soak for 8 hours before all the rust was removed, then steel parts were fine treated with a Dremel tool and a wire brush and the brass parts were treated with a Dremel tool and a polishing wheel and rubbing compound.

I am amazed at the accuracy that this instrument's design and build! Its tolerances are almost nill. But, because of that, everything is stuck together because of corrosion and then once the corrosion is gone, it's still a delicate operation to take things apart without destroying things in the process! But, so far, no problems, I just take my time and if I don't see a way to do something right away, I do something else.

I have also started taking apart and cleaning/polishing the RA gear assembly, but more on that later once it's all cleaned up!


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mikey cee
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3601419 - 02/03/10 12:51 AM

Wow that looks great. How much is that stuff a gallon? Mike

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: mikey cee]
      #3601420 - 02/03/10 12:52 AM

Quote:

Why would someone who was a commercial telescope builder use a refractor/cassegrain rack and pinion focuser? Looks like a lot more work involved to mount it but then I'm just a refractor freak. Mike




Hi Mikey!

I've taken a closer look at this area of the scope, and it is not something off a cassegrain or refractor, it is entirely original design machined by the builder. The focuser base rotates when the lock ring is loosened up and it also has an electric focus control. The motor seems okay but I haven't tested it yet and the gearbox is clean inside. Even the focuser knob and shaft are custom made! Actually, I don't think anything on this scope was second-sourced except for some of the gears.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: mikey cee]
      #3601427 - 02/03/10 01:00 AM

Quote:

Wow that looks great. How much is that stuff a gallon? Mike




I picked up 2 pints at AutoZone for about $16 all together. I've seen it online a lot cheaper, but then there's shipping and waiting. "I highly recommend it!" It's gentle on the hands and doesn't have any fumes at all. You just soak and then rinse it in water. It's also reusable, but I think I will have spent the stuff once that Dec shaft finishes soaking - it's going to be a 24 hour job on that! It also has some penetration qualities where it will break up parts bonded with rust so that they can be separated easily.

Edit to add: It only cleans up steel rust. Rust that smooges onto other metals such as brass or aluminum will dissolve, but the surface will still need to be cleaned/polished/etc.

(I have no affiliation with Evapo-Rust)

Edited by Datapanic (02/03/10 01:35 AM)


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reddog15
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/09/09

Loc: Wyoming
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: Datapanic]
      #3602088 - 02/03/10 11:57 AM

Wow thats Night an Day Looks fantastic I,m really stoked to see your new found beauty come to life

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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: reddog15]
      #3602102 - 02/03/10 12:04 PM

I'm impressed!


...how much of that stuff would I need to soak my 1960 VW singlecab pickup?

-Tim.


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grendel
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/12/09

Loc: Canterbury, Kent, UK
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: tim53]
      #3602229 - 02/03/10 12:59 PM

how much of it do you want left?

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reddog15
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/09/09

Loc: Wyoming
Re: A Mystery Scope! new [Re: grendel]
      #3602271 - 02/03/10 01:13 PM

Quote:

how much of it do you want left?


The solution or the VW

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! [Re: reddog15]
      #3602349 - 02/03/10 01:40 PM Attachment (90 downloads)

Here's a pic of the Dec shaft after soaking for about 18 hours. The lower part below the threads was severely rusted, now, the rust is gone and the stuff leaves a dark gray film which can be wiped off. Then, a little cleanup and polishing comes later.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A Mystery Scope! [Re: Datapanic]
      #3602359 - 02/03/10 01:42 PM

I have more information about who built the telescope and a little history about the telescope itself!

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