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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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apfever
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5022489 - 01/17/12 10:28 AM

Oh my, I had writing under the finder stalk, in red!
Just numbers in this case, but matching on the tube and on the base of the stalk. Pictures to follow, I have an *BLEEP*-umption about the writings.

Clint, I want to open another thread on these Mayflowers. I'd like to get specific inputs on dating mine and try to swing some consecutive post pictures for the group. I'll be doing some copy and paste onto my comp. They are very similar and my poor brain doesn't do well taking a photo image across the room to look at something else and compare.
I think yours and mine are same era with close enough similarities to consider a tie between the two HOC symbols. Yours is BLOCK HOC and mine is the pretty one.

Neil


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clintwhitman
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: apfever]
      #5023450 - 01/17/12 07:02 PM

Yours is obviously from the late 1990s and more than likely writen under the finder in Japanese is I like Rap!!!!!

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apfever
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5023920 - 01/17/12 11:58 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

Quote:

Yours is obviously from the late 1990s and more than likely writen under the finder in Japanese is I like Rap!!!!!




Touche.

Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English. Just the number 22. Twenty two twice on the finder and once on the OTA. You can see where one of the 22's transfered a little to the OTA from the finder, so the OTA has two twenty twos too.

I can count to two too.

Was yours written in red? I'm thinking these may have been labeled to be paired up due to the holes being drilled in slight varying positions and the OTAs having been drill matched to the individual stalks. It would be nice if everybody with a Mayflower 80mm, F15 would now de-stalk and report. Of course we would have to start a massive stalk swap to confirm the alignment need.

Neil


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greju
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols *DELETED* new [Re: apfever]
      #5024570 - 01/18/12 11:57 AM

Post deleted by RLTYS

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greju
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: apfever]
      #5024575 - 01/18/12 11:59 AM

It sure does look like a "teardrop" in Neils picture.

Edited by greju (01/18/12 12:00 PM)


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mikey cee
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5024676 - 01/18/12 12:41 PM

Looks like what Royal Astro was noted for....fine attention to fine detail. Screw placement was just eye balled at best. Mike

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greju
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5024711 - 01/18/12 12:56 PM

Quote:

Looks like what Royal Astro was noted for....fine attention to fine detail. Screw placement was just eye balled at best. Mike




You don't think they may have used some type of jig?


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apfever
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5024725 - 01/18/12 01:02 PM

Quote:

"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English."


Made in America. You jest! Sometimes the Japanese numerals can look surprisingly like their American counterpart.




Yeah, the Germanic Language tends to support a lot of international use through history, particularly the numbers.

Excellent picture, very nice.

Along the same lines of Japan, subs, and copying are the Japanese I-401 submarine aircraft carriers. One of these subs had 3 planes, camouflaged with a USAF paint job. This was an act in horrible disgreement with international acceptance and national respect that many in Japan deplored.

On to the scope, It would be nice to see how similar this one particular make of scope might be with sporting both forms of HOC. Mine and Clints seem to be pretty darn close.
All this would really do is tighten a possible link between the cursive and block forms. Exactly who HOC is would be just as much a mystery. sigh.

The idea of matching hole patterns was just an idea. At the time, I couldn't think of a more logical reason to match mark the stalks to an OTA.

Neil

Edited by apfever (01/18/12 01:11 PM)


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ams
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5026023 - 01/19/12 12:49 AM

Quote:

"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English."


Made in America. You jest! Sometimes the Japanese numerals can look surprisingly like their American counterpart.




I don't understant why the uploading of a japanese submarine picture. To me is very clear that this forun is about telescopes and this one special is about Japanese Symbols on telescopes. Let's Keep It That Way..


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: ams]
      #5026187 - 01/19/12 06:09 AM

Your right, post was deleted. Please folks stay on topic.

Rich (RLTYS)


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clintwhitman
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: apfever]
      #5026248 - 01/19/12 07:18 AM Attachment (36 downloads)

I was kidding Neil.... LOL
This old HOC is kinda of an enigma. The first thing I noticed about it was the weight in the lens end, really heavy. While cleaning the objective I noted the lens cell is machined from brass. This is the first and only Mayflower I have seen with a brass lens cell. Second thing was the paint job, fit and finish. Super well done on all its parts. Like I said Steve Miller and I were amazed by the way it looks. To me it screamed out that it may have been a sample. You know, Here is what we can do and we will make 10,000 of these for $39 each. It was purchased from an old Japanese lady who said her late husband was a re-seller / distributor of stuff from Japan and her house was filled with imported old stuff. He had the scope since it was new, 1961 on the paperwork. Third thing are its optics. They are impeccable with a perfect star test and real waxy looking objective.
So anyway it is one of the best Cheap Telescope I have seen to date, Blows my Tascos and Sears scopes right out of the water as far as fit and finish. It is a 80mm 1200. There has been a few Japanese people look at the marks. And the conciseness is it means tear drops. But a Japanese Teacher from UCLA who brought a telescope over for repairs said he was sure it was meant "one with tears" like crybaby??? I don't read or understand Japanese so, its all Greek to me.
I understand Cool scope, so this one will be the one I keep!!
I would say that even with your 22 mark it is just as likely an assemblers / inspectors number or signature. These were later replace with a sticker that I have seen a thousand times. But it may also be like you said the numbers that are on Unitron rings so they go together right??

Edited by clintwhitman (01/19/12 07:26 AM)


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clintwhitman
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: clintwhitman]
      #5026267 - 01/19/12 07:29 AM Attachment (33 downloads)

Here is the good end

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greju
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: ams]
      #5026886 - 01/19/12 01:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English."


Made in America. You jest! Sometimes the Japanese numerals can look surprisingly like their American counterpart.




I don't understant why the uploading of a japanese submarine picture. To me is very clear that this forun is about telescopes and this one special is about Japanese Symbols on telescopes. Let's Keep It That Way..




"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English. Just the number 22."

I guess you did not notice the numerals on the sub. My post responded to Neils concerning "Japanese symbols" and how their symbols are just the same as ours concerning numerals. Even on classic scopes.

The picture that some seem to have taken offense to was not copyrighted and was only used as it was a good way to show Japanese and American numerals can be the same and was no way intended to glorify ANYTHING! If I was to use an American ship it would not quite have the same effect, would it? Geez!!

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Sensui-bokan.htm

Edited by greju (01/19/12 02:20 PM)


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apfever
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5027184 - 01/19/12 05:09 PM

I knew that, yeah I jest. The Japanese also have their own characters for numbers but the Germanic use is common world wide. Did some one claim Glorifying?

I checked my lens cell and it is normal aluminum. Wow Clint that scope of yours is a glorified unit.:)
Both marked in what seems the same red pen, same place, matched stalk and tube, just a glorified mark for that scope. I must admit that Mayflower 80mm F15 kicks butt over mine, up one side and down the other.
Now if every stalk finder on other vintage/antique Mayflower 80mm F15 with a HOC label of some kind would only be opened and checked......


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ams
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5027911 - 01/20/12 01:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English."


Made in America. You jest! Sometimes the Japanese numerals can look surprisingly like their American counterpart.




I don't understant why the uploading of a japanese submarine picture. To me is very clear that this forun is about telescopes and this one special is about Japanese Symbols on telescopes. Let's Keep It That Way..




"Nope, made in USA before they went to Japan I guess. Written in good ol' English. Just the number 22."

I guess you did not notice the numerals on the sub. My post responded to Neils concerning "Japanese symbols" and how their symbols are just the same as ours concerning numerals. Even on classic scopes.

The picture that some seem to have taken offense to was not copyrighted and was only used as it was a good way to show Japanese and American numerals can be the same and was no way intended to glorify ANYTHING! If I was to use an American ship it would not quite have the same effect, would it? Geez!!

http://www.combinedfleet.com/Sensui-bokan.htm




I believe that there are other ways more appropriate to show the differents if that was your intentions and sure it is a copyrighted is a watercolor painting by Takeshi Yuki. C'Mon Man! bring out one of your telescope and let's enjoy the night skies..


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greju
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: ams]
      #5028631 - 01/20/12 01:11 PM

"I believe that there are other ways more appropriate to show the differents if that was your intentions and sure it is a copyrighted is a watercolor painting by Takeshi Yuki. C'Mon Man! bring out one of your telescope and let's enjoy the night skies.."

Yes, that was my only intention and I do occasionaly bring out one of my telescopes and enjoy the night skies. But that is not what this particular thread or my recent posts in it are about. This thread is called "The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols" and while my post that you deemed inappropriate might stray from the original intent of the OP it does directly respond to a previous post and certainly refers to Japanese symbols (numerals) and their relation to numerals in the English language. Something that was mentioned in a previous thread and also a topic that I do not believe had been dicussed before in this thread. I could not find a mention of copyrighted material on the site where I got the picture from and to just try to keep everyone happy ( ) I have now just included a link.

I am sorry if in some way you found the picture inappropriate. It was not posted with an intent to offend anyone. I do know that if I was harboring such animosity I probably would not peruse a forum thats content discusses with some regularity classic Japanese scopes and some of it's members, Heaven forbid ( is that allowed? ), actually own telescopes made in Japan!


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: greju]
      #5030056 - 01/21/12 09:17 AM

Come on folks, lets keep this friendly. We're drifting off topic.

Rich (RLTYS)


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MacScope
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5030963 - 01/21/12 06:25 PM

More like steamed right past the island. But... This is a wonderful thread lots of information and speculation as it is kind of hard to find the right people, if they are still alive in Japan and just outright ask who made the optics, who made the castings, etc.

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ams
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: MacScope]
      #5033253 - 01/22/12 11:46 PM Attachment (33 downloads)

Meade 2045 SCT

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Geo.
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Re: The Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols new [Re: ams]
      #5033753 - 01/23/12 10:55 AM

I guess the I-400 submarines are tangentially on topic. They certainly are evidence of the highly developed state of Japanese industry at the close of WWII. The captured I-400s were considered so advanced that they were scuttled after being examined to avoid the Soviets from gaining any of their technology. It would be interesting from the historical aspect to study the rise and course of Japanese optics industry from the ashes of the war. As I recall there were many restrictions imposed by the MacArthur administration on the products that could be produced. The extensive list of makers and assemblers of scopes may have resulted from the restrictions on producing optics that could have had any military use. Clearly this included gun sights and binoculars. Once control of the country was returned to the Japanese these restrictions were removed, but by that time a lot of wartime optical firms were producing astro and camera optics. I think it would make a great book or doctorial thesis, but as this generation of Japanese industrialists are slipping away and the industry is being scattered all over the rest of Asia now, so it would have to be done quickly.

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