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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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trainsktg
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: tim53]
      #5518464 - 11/13/12 06:35 PM

OP...your scope has little collectors' value, even if it were a completely intact specimen. $100 or less. Much less IMO. The telescope pictured in my previous post, a complete 4.25" Edmund in absolutely excellent condition, has been up for sale for over a month now on several forums at $125 and I have had not one email from an interested party. Repainting yours will not matter. In my experience, unlike cars, coins or antique rifles, refinishing a majority of telescopes out there does not seem to alter their value significantly one way or the other, so I don't believe you have anything to worry about.

Keith


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oldtimer
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 11/13/08

Loc: Lake County Illinois
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5518507 - 11/13/12 06:54 PM

The mirrors in these scope were 4.25" F-105.6 spherical mirrors which were very good optically. Early models used a over sized secondary which blocked too much light. I have redone several of these OTAs with modern low profile focusers and .75" secondaries.

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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: oldtimer]
      #5522182 - 11/16/12 12:51 AM

I found this thread:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3652971/page...

and just wanted to link this one into it.

I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do. At this time, I'm tempted to sell it (parts or whole) and put the money towards a smaller/newer scope.

I really wish I hadn't cut up the legs. :kicking self:


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5522684 - 11/16/12 11:08 AM

Consider the loss of the legs a mere faux paus of a new Classicist. They can be replaced or repaired.

A 4" equatorially mounted classic Newt will teach you and show you more than you think. A new scope may be smaller, but not necessarily better, especially where odds are good yours has a good mirror. Mounted on a tripod, yours would be lightweight to carry outside, a perfect big grab-and-go. Fix it to see what you can learn from it. You'll probably want to keep it. If you decide to move on, you'll have real knowledge of your preferences leading to selling. Remember: You are already in possession of a scope many of us would love to find, a wonderful opportunity.

Four inches is plenty of aperture for learning the basics of astronomy. A nice, portable, vest pocket star cruiser!


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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5523061 - 11/16/12 03:22 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Tahoe,

The scope you have is not the one you linked to, I'll get to the one in the link in a moment.
This is the kind you have, it is not a Palomar Jr.
Mine is late 50's to very early 60's. This one is labeled "ANCHOR" but it was put out by Edmund after they bought Anchor Optical.


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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5523065 - 11/16/12 03:27 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

You can paint these tubes and parts without concern about damaging their nostalgia. They are quite easy to strip all the parts off of (just a few minutes), sand or chemical strip the tube, and repaint with a rattle can. This tube (in front) is a Palomar Jr. which is the kind you linked to above.

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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5523067 - 11/16/12 03:30 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

Here it is with the primary back in, and OTA mounting bolts. Everything has been replaced with stainless steal hardware.

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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5523074 - 11/16/12 03:34 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

The Palomar commonly had a motor drive. This is one redone, with a little buffing.
The Anchor variety did not come with a drive as far as I know.


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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5523083 - 11/16/12 03:42 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Repainting can be done without taking out the crinkle or pebble finish. These Palomar legs were done with Rustolium spray can. The word "EDSCORP" was highlighted in white by dabbing with a dipped cloth.

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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5523100 - 11/16/12 03:51 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Here's three more Palomars. Two on pier (one basket case), and one on wood tripod. Edmund did make an actual Palomar Jr. on a wood tripod, without a drive. This was done during the regular column type pier production. These were advertised for the nostalgic look. YOURS is not one of these. Yours is older than the Palomars.

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trainsktg
Post Laureate
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Reged: 08/23/05

Loc: Pacific Northwest
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5524264 - 11/17/12 12:10 PM

I like your idea of painting the 'Edscorp' in the white.

In the topic that was previously linked by Tahoe', there is an Anchor telescope shown in Lew's black-and-white group photo about half way down.

Keith


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: trainsktg]
      #5524458 - 11/17/12 02:21 PM

I bought a cheap EQ mount last night. (I think it'll be sturdier than the Edmund EQ mount that I've got, and I also wanted something with slo-mo knobs.) I probably over paid, but the seller is throwing in a bunch of extra stuff that hopefully I'll be able to use. (Dovetail plates, low profile 1.25 focuser, some eyepieces. I hope it's ok to drill some holes in the tube!) I'm sure it's not high quality stuff, but it's a place for me to start. It'll be stuff that I can learn on! Right now, all I have is a pair of binoculars. (I guess when I bought that mount, last night, I decided to fix this scope up!)

Shortly after Thanksgiving I'll be taking delivery of a used Orion XT10i dobsonian. I'm going to need something smaller! Winters can get pretty crazy here! I'm going to need something that I can set up, and transport, quickly and easily. I'm not sure this Edmund reflector is going to fit the bill forever. (The primary mirror DOES look good though, so we'll see.)

Some of you love your original scopes. (This is mine.) I have very mixed feelings about mine. On the one hand, I still remember seeing Saturn for the first time though it... on the other hand, this was a very wobbly, and frustrating, scope for me! I was 12 when I got it, and the tube was held onto its mount with bicycle innertubes! I wasn't old enough, or sophisticated enough, to fix it. As a kid, I was like... *BLEEP*! It was frustrating! In, at least, in some sense... the experience turned me off of astronomy for all these years! (So, yea, parents... if you're going to buy your kid a scope, buy one that's functional! ))

Long term... I'd like to get some sort of classic refractor. (Maybe in the 76mm size.) I've been looking at the old Sears/Tasco listings. (All this "Circle T" and "Diamond Z" stuff has me pretty confused. I'm not even sure if it should be important to me!) If a good deal comes along, I might jump at it... but I doubt I'd know a good deal if it jumped out of the bushes and attacked me!

In the meantime, I've learned my lesson. I'm not going to get rid of, or destroy, any more hardware! (apfever, the legs are yours, AFAIC. If you want them soon, let me know... otherwise it might take some time for me to get organized. Before I send them to you, I'm going to trace their outline. Maybe, if I decide to, I can make another set, and include an eyepiece holder to make things more stable!)

Thanks for the photos! There's a lot of good information in them! They give me ideas, and a goal to work towards!

EDIT: Hmmmmm... I guess you can't say that here. Sorry.

Edited by TahoeNoob (11/17/12 02:29 PM)


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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5524580 - 11/17/12 03:42 PM

no worries. The polite euphamism for fecal material ( the c word)is where most noobs earn there BLEEP experience. Me too.

I'll get back to you in a PM (private message) on the legs. I have an outreach star party tonight. Supposed to have a JR. High class come out. Yahoo, maybe I'll take a big boy.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5524599 - 11/17/12 03:52 PM

Actually, what tripped me up was the three letter acronym for "WhaT a Farce." (I shall be more careful.)

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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5524621 - 11/17/12 04:10 PM

Whiskey tango foxtrot??

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wfj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/10/08

Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5524652 - 11/17/12 04:34 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Quote:


The Anchor variety did not come with a drive as far as I know.



Neil,
I'm not so sure. I acquired a 8" with what appears to be a Anchor mount, and it has a clock drive.

Note that the castings don't have any markings like the Edmund ones.

I seem to remember that these with the red knobs (90 degrees to side on polar axis) were in the Jaegers catalog in Sky and Tel back in the 70's.

By the way, does anyone know about the wooden legs for these?


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5525643 - 11/18/12 07:59 AM

Don't drill the tube to attach it to the mount. Buy or make rings. Rings allow rotating the tube in the mount, as is necessary with an equatorial mount if you hope to keep the eyepiece in a comfortable location as the scope tracks the skies.

Trademarks are essential, but you need not rush to learn them. Just post questions here when scopes are available for sale. You might learn, for example, that the shiny, pristine antique available across town were judged to be likely extremely fine if it were a Circle-T, but nothing special if it were a Diamond-Z. This can occur even in the same model. Towa and Tanzutsu both built what was sold as the Jason 313, but only the Circle-T is widely regarded as a poor-man's fine small refractor.

In buying, don't fuss too much over exact aperture class as marked on the objective. 76mm, 80mm... pretty much the same beast. Look for the quality of the scope versus its price instead. Better to test and buy a good 80mm than waste money on a lesser 90mm sight unseen.


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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: Colorado
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: wfj]
      #5526480 - 11/18/12 05:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:


The Anchor variety did not come with a drive as far as I know.



Neil,
I'm not so sure. I acquired a 8" with what appears to be a Anchor mount, and it has a clock drive.

Note that the castings don't have any markings like the Edmund ones.

I seem to remember that these with the red knobs (90 degrees to side on polar axis) were in the Jaegers catalog in Sky and Tel back in the 70's.

By the way, does anyone know about the wooden legs for these?




Bill,

I was refering only to the 4.25" reflectors for drives.

Hey! I'd sure like more info on the mount you pictured. The exact same kind of counterweight is here, sold as an Edmund, but it didn't match anything Edmund. Do you have any more info on anchoring down the mount ID? I believe the mount you pictured is for a 6" reflector. At least it is comparable to my Edmund 6". My Edmund 8" is a monster brute compared to my 6".
The 6" has a 1" diameter counter shaft, and the 8" is 1.5" diameter.


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wfj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/10/08

Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? new [Re: apfever]
      #5527164 - 11/19/12 12:38 AM

Quote:


Hey! I'd sure like more info on the mount you pictured.




Love to give it to you Neil, but I've taken it apart to components and not found a single mark (other than the casting "gates", of course). The Cramer motor has a data of 9 77.

Quote:


The exact same kind of counterweight is here, sold as an Edmund, but it didn't match anything Edmund.




Yes sir. One has a "1", the other a "2", they are otherwise identical and match the rest of the mount.

Quote:


Do you have any more info on anchoring down the mount ID?




Only an absence of information. That is, all the marks on an Edmund mount, every last one of them are gone, yet the dimensions are exact to the castings of an Edmund.

Quote:


I believe the mount you pictured is for a 6" reflector.




Yes sir, a 1", like the 6" sold by Edmund, down to the same mounting hardware.

Quote:


My Edmund 8" is a monster brute compared to my 6".
The 6" has a 1" diameter counter shaft, and the 8" is 1.5" diameter.



Exactly. The 8" it came with is a home built with an f/5 mirror. I had speculated it might have come from Edmund, but there aren't the usual marks, and it isn't coated by Pancro. The cell was an Edmund.

The reason I'm bringing this up here is the Anchor connection.

When I measured the radius of the saddle, its for a tube diameter more appropriate for a 4" scope than an 6".

I often wondered if the 1" mount was what the Anchor 4.25" scope had originally - would have made it rock solid. And then perhaps they came up with a "discount" mount later.

So this might be what bothered the OP from the beginning.


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TahoeNoob
sage
*****

Reged: 10/31/12

Loc: Sierra Nevada
Re: 4 Inch Reflector... a fixer upper. Is it worth it? [Re: wfj]
      #5545900 - 11/29/12 05:46 PM

Ok, so I got this new tripod and mount that I plan to use with my Edmund. It needs a little bit of work, but I don't think it's going to be too bad. The main thing I need to do is take apart the EQ mount and figure out why it's so snug. Also, the DEC axis binds when I try to rotate it in the clockwise direction. (I'm guessing there's some sort of cam in there that's too tight.)

Am I going to have to grease anything upon reassembly? If so, what type of grease should I use? (I have white lithium grease, and other grease too... in my bicycle tool box.)

If there's anything I should know before I take this head apart, now would be a good time to let me know.

Anyway, here are some pictures:







Edited by TahoeNoob (11/29/12 06:03 PM)


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