· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User You are not logged in. [Login] Entrance · Main Index · Search · New user · Who's Online FAQ · Calendar Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina anyone want some repro Cave-Astrola nameplates?       #5555848 - 12/05/12 03:23 PM Attachment (31 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Is there any interest by any cave astrola owner in getting a set of Cave-Astrola stickers to replace their missing ones? Being a little obcessive about originality, and seeing that real cave nameplates dont seem to be available, Ive asked a printer for a quote to reproduce them. These will be 2" wide aluminum stickers with "Cave-Astrola" in script just as the originals except I'm leaving off the copyright symbol after Astrola so it will be clear its a repro just for cosmetics and dosent refer to Hardin opticals Astrola product line. They mave a minimum order of 100 tags so a set of two should cost us somewhere around four to six dollars I'm guessing. Will post a photo of one when they come in if there is any interest in it. I'm taking the first two so should have 98 of them to hand out if any of you want some. I will put them up in the classified when available. I know one guy was looking for a sticker, just wondering if anyone else was to help defray my costs. Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5555867 - 12/05/12 03:31 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Just got the quote back, looks like $2 each Label material: Silver BOPP/Perm Finish: Gloss Overlam Label size: 1.5” x 2” SQC Rectangle Black ink only Hand applied 100 labels - $209.75 ($2.0975 ea) Post Extras:       tim53 Postmaster Reged: 12/17/04 Loc: Highland Park, CA Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5555941 - 12/05/12 04:25 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Last time someone asked the owner of the copyright if he could make repros, the answer was no. Make sure that leaving the copyright symbol off would be okay. Or you might do what the companies making reproduction parts for Model A Fords do, to use the Ford script on the parts - they pay Ford a 6% royalty on all the parts they sell. -Tim. Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: tim53]       #5555950 - 12/05/12 04:30 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Who owns the copyright? Will do a search to see if it's lapsed. Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5555963 - 12/05/12 04:40 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Hardin optical, well, if thats so I guess I cant share them with anyone else. Post Extras:       chuck52 super member Reged: 12/03/09 Loc: Quartz Hill,California Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5555972 - 12/05/12 04:48 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   If this works out I would be interested in some. Post Extras:       Mirzam Post Laureate Reged: 04/01/08 Loc: Lovettsville, VA Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5555974 - 12/05/12 04:48 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Anyone else interested in Starliner labels? I was thinking about doing a similar reproduction effort. I'm speculating that there is no copyright problem there. JimC Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Mirzam]       #5555999 - 12/05/12 04:59 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   hah, Acording to the United States Patent and Trademark Office Hardin only has a trademark for the word "Astrola". "Cave-Astrola" and "Cave Optical" isnt a live trademark. Fair use doctrine applies. Post Extras:       tim53 Postmaster Reged: 12/17/04 Loc: Highland Park, CA Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5556097 - 12/05/12 06:05 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I hope that's right. I don't remember who posted a thread about doing this before, but they contacted Hardin and were told "no". Jim: I've been thinking about doing the same for Optical Craftsmen labels. Dick Nelson is long gone, and I doubt anybody cares anymore about the name, unless someone were to try to start their own business making OC knockoffs, and even then... hm... ;oD The family who owned Star-Liner is still around, I'm sure. Phil Harrington (IIRC) asked about buying the company when the owners retired, but they preferred closing the doors. Making labels isn't making new telescopes, though. -Tim. Post Extras:       Mirzam Post Laureate Reged: 04/01/08 Loc: Lovettsville, VA Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: tim53]       #5556134 - 12/05/12 06:23 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Who is infringing the copyright? The person putting a new label on a Cave or Starliner telescope or the person who uses the label in a fraudulent manner? JimC Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Mirzam]       #5556233 - 12/05/12 07:15 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   To infringe the trademark, one would have to sell a product using a mark which a reasonable person would confuse as being a product of the Hardin Optical company. The phrase "Cave-Astrola" is unambigiously understood by the public and the Astronomy community as referring to products made prior to Hardin by Thomas Cave and the Cave Optical co. A search of literature and the Internet shows this to be readily apparant. In any event, Hardins application is for optical goods and mirrors. This is neither. Post Extras:       Da Bear scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 11/21/06 Loc: Kali-Forn-Ya Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Mirzam]       #5556239 - 12/05/12 07:18 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I hoped to make stickers that would be recognizable as repro's rather than the orginial. I contacted Hardin a few years ago and they were polite but firm in requesting that I not reproduction of any Cave logo's or stickers. It's the law and it's the right thing to do, when someone else own's the copyright. I checked-- they really do own the Cave logo and Astrola name too. This is a really bad idea on a number of levels, to sell CAVE stickers without the copyright holders permission, especailly since the sticker could be considered direct evidence of abettting fraudulent sales. I own 3 Cave's and appraise another 3-5 Cave scopes a years --now I may have to tell some folks that their sticker's a fake.. This gives the entire Classic Scope community a black eye. Da Bear Edited by Da Bear (12/05/12 07:19 PM) Post Extras:       Mkofski professor emeritus Reged: 07/19/11 Loc: Greenfield, Indiana, USA Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Da Bear]       #5556332 - 12/05/12 08:05 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   I buy reproduction dust jackets for old (before 1960) science fiction book once in a while. The person that prints and sells them includes "Reproduction" on the inside front flap so there is no question about them being reproductions. Why not leave off the Copyright symbol or add Reproduction at the bottom right is a small font? Post Extras:       Datapanic Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/17/09 Loc: Tucson, Arizona Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Mkofski]       #5556529 - 12/05/12 10:06 PM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   If you want to have repro labels made up for your scope, I say go for it. The labels don't affect the value that much. And I know all about Caves. When I bought my 75 8" Lightweight Deluxe new, the labels were one of the first things to come off. I thought they were kinda cheap and took away from the beauty of the scope as a whole. But, that's my opinion! Post Extras:       greju Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/13/05 Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Datapanic]       #5556555 - 12/05/12 10:20 PM Attachment (13 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   " I thought they were kinda cheap and took away from the beauty of the scope as a whole. But, that's my opinion!" The labels yes, but the plaques-a work of art! Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Da Bear]       #5556704 - 12/06/12 12:10 AM Attachment (6 downloads) Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Actually Bear no, that is untrue. Hardin optical only owns the mark "Astrola". Neither the "Cave-Astrola" logo nor "Cave Optical" are owned by Hardin Optical. The sticker would clearly be marked as a repro and therefore wouldnt be fake. See for yourself at the United States Patent and Trademark office. http://www.uspto.gov Search for Cave-Astrola and Cave Optical here is their actual trademark application for "Astrola": http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=76091134&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchT... Post Extras:       Datapanic Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/17/09 Loc: Tucson, Arizona Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: dgreyson]       #5556716 - 12/06/12 12:23 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   What's missing is the Transfer of Trademark (if there is such a thing) from Cave Optical to Hardin for the Astrola registered trademark. I'm looking at a 70's Cave-Astrola label with a circle-R on it right now. And, "Astrola" is marked on just about every late model Cave telescope mount. Did the original Astrola trademark expire and then Hardin take it nearly 25 years later? Kinda fishy, if you ask me. Post Extras:       Datapanic Carpal Tunnel Reged: 10/17/09 Loc: Tucson, Arizona Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Datapanic]       #5556725 - 12/06/12 12:35 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   So we're looking for what's called An Assignment - Change of Owner and Change of Owner Name. Post Extras:       dgreyson sage Reged: 11/06/12 Loc: South Carolina Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Datapanic]       #5556739 - 12/06/12 12:51 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   Interesting, No assignment for Cave Astrola, Astrola nor Cave optical to anyone. Post Extras:       Da Bear scholastic sledgehammer Reged: 11/21/06 Loc: Kali-Forn-Ya Re: anyone want some repro Cave Astrola nameplates? [Re: Datapanic]       #5556746 - 12/06/12 12:57 AM Edit   Reply   Quote Quick Reply   All I can say is that two years ago, I had a good buddy who is patent, copyright and trademark lawyer to look into this. I spent real $$$'s (5 billed hours) on this exact issue. He was very clear that Hardin has aquiried the entire " Cave Universe" of legal ownership, copyrights and "trade dress" to Astrola , Cave Optical, and Cave Telescope and all the Cave derivations from Meade. Just sayin' ...... Da Bear Edited by Da Bear (12/06/12 01:00 AM) Post Extras:       Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all) Previous   Index   Next   Threaded   Extra information 28 registered and 16 anonymous users are browsing this forum. 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