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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
ALERT! Old abandone scope found
      #5572837 - 12/15/12 04:31 PM

I have found an old abandoned telescope, in the most unlikely of places: Google images.

OK, nothing new, you say, but wait! This image was a Panoramio image from Google Earth. And it showed what is unquestionably a British-made newtonian on a cast-iron german equatorial mount, sitting outside in the wilderness in South Lanarkshire, Scotland.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/58922337

Compare with:

http://www.brayebrookobservatory.org/BrayObsWebSite/HOMEPAGE/HISTORY.html

*

Sorry if this is all old news and the scope has been rescued years ago, but I think there's a real chance it hasn't. Someone please help it out of its misery, before the local scrap metal dealer finds it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark

PS. If someone says this belongs in the "eBay" thread, I'm gonna wack them with a tripod leg from my Zenith 114mm newtonian...


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mgwhittle
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/24/11

Loc: Chattanooga, TN
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5572925 - 12/15/12 05:50 PM

Okay, there has to be more to this story of how you " found" it? Was this purely by chance?

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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5572934 - 12/15/12 05:57 PM

Amazing, it just seems to have been left to rust quietly in a field!

James


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5572943 - 12/15/12 06:00 PM

Never mind! Who's nearby who can save it??

Or at least find out what the story is behind it.

That's far too cool to let rust away!!

I'd give my right arm and up to all but one of my other appendages for a Newtonian of that vintage!

-Tim.

Edited by tim53 (12/15/12 06:04 PM)


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Mirzam
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/01/08

Loc: Lovettsville, VA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5572957 - 12/15/12 06:12 PM

When the world ends, the surviving creatures of the distant future will marvel at the mysterious creations of the unmarked past.

JimC


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5572965 - 12/15/12 06:20 PM

Quote:

Okay, there has to be more to this story of how you " found" it? Was this purely by chance?




Amazingly, yes. I was just Googling "old telescopes" and looking at random pictures of just that, to pass some idle time, when I happened on this one.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5572968 - 12/15/12 06:23 PM

Quote:

Never mind! Who's nearby who can save it??




I immediately contacted Neil English, who lives in Scotland. He'll probably reply tomorrow. He knows a bunch of folks over there. There must be someone who wants to save it.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Dan /schechter
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/21/06

Loc: Long Beach, Calif.
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5572981 - 12/15/12 06:38 PM

WOW!!!! What serendipity. Can`t wait to see how this story unfolds.
Dan


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5573027 - 12/15/12 07:13 PM

Um. I google mapped it. Is it not in Australia?

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JustinO
member


Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5573070 - 12/15/12 07:45 PM

Another photo:

http://hillandglen.photoshelter.com/image/I0000lDxB_Ap94Tg


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strdst
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5573072 - 12/15/12 07:46 PM

Quote:

Um. I google mapped it. Is it not in Australia?






Using your iPhone again?


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: strdst]
      #5573088 - 12/15/12 07:54 PM

LOL!

Yep, that was the problem!


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5573091 - 12/15/12 07:57 PM

I sent an email

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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5573094 - 12/15/12 07:58 PM

While I'm thinking about it...

You should post the links to the pictures on the Antique Telescope Society's yahoo group. Maybe someone knowledgeable and local can look into it.

-Tim.


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5573298 - 12/15/12 09:51 PM

Very cool thread! I actually think that would be a very cool Oil Painting! I may get my Oils and canvas out again...
thanks for sharing it with us.
Larry


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*skyguy*
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/31/08

Loc: Western New York
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: orion61]
      #5573377 - 12/15/12 11:00 PM

It's interesting to see that when the Google map location of this scope is expanded ... there is a large private home near it.

http://www.panoramio.com/map/#lt=55.700904&ln=-3.840243&z=-2&k=2&...


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: *skyguy*]
      #5573500 - 12/16/12 01:06 AM

They are likely using it as a garden statue it would seem.
Too bad the scope isnt being preserved.


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JustinO
member


Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5573580 - 12/16/12 03:15 AM

I tried to upload a large version of the photo of this telescope, but when I finally found where the "Gallery" was hidden, it would not accept it -- it says "size limit 0k" in red, and when I tried anyway, it said it exceeded the 200k limit. It says there is no limit for the "Gallery".
It's a shame -- it is a really nice detailed picture.


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JustinO
member


Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5573585 - 12/16/12 03:25 AM

Looking at the 3 meg version, that telescope may not be dead. If it were in my back yard I'd drag to the shop and start cleaning and painting.

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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5573713 - 12/16/12 08:07 AM

That scope has one massive mount.

Rich (RLTYS)


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Grava T
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5573894 - 12/16/12 10:29 AM

A lot of love went into that telescope one time. It would be a shame to see it rust away in a field like that. I wonder if the mirrors are still present.

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Grava T]
      #5573961 - 12/16/12 11:09 AM

Wouldn't it be easy to contact the homeowner?

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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: Seattle
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Grava T]
      #5573970 - 12/16/12 11:13 AM

Isn't that wild! if it could only talk.
I wonder if it belongs to the estate close by.
Tax records of the house and land may be available from another online source in Scotland possibly, and then past owners and dates may be public information.
It more than likely was in a observatory at one time, long since gone.
The mirror end of the tube is up, I don't see a primary mirror but part of the cell remains.

Robert


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: actionhac]
      #5574115 - 12/16/12 12:50 PM

I got a reply from the photographer (or the person who posted the images, at least). He says he has no idea of who owns it. Says that it's just out in a field in the countryside with no obvious owner.

Is there anyone here on CN who could look into it for preservation's sake? I'm not saying that *I* want it (well, I'd love to try to restore it, but getting it across the pond and then the country would probably be prohibitively expensive enough). It would make far more sense for someone in the UK to restore it.

-Tim.


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5574138 - 12/16/12 01:05 PM

I sent an email to the contact at the Brayebrook Observatory as well.

I hope this scope can be saved.

-Tim.


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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5574164 - 12/16/12 01:26 PM

I made a post to a local astronomy forum (Stargazers Lounge) to see if anyone could shed any further light on the background to this 'scope but so far have got no further information.

Also searching on Google has revealed no historical links to astronomy in the local area so it's all rather a mystery at the moment. I would imagine that in its day that would have been an expensive 'scope so had thought there might have been a reference to one of the local landowners being an amateur.


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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5574173 - 12/16/12 01:32 PM

My email to the observatory bounced.

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wfj
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/10/08

Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5574191 - 12/16/12 01:47 PM

By the way, this is more common than many of you might want to think.

When I was travelling through California's 'Gold Country' in the late 60's / early 70's I'd hear about abandoned scopes, and chased them down - usually to find a pile of rusted parts and/or a concrete or stone/aggregate pier. I once found parts of an eyepiece in a ghost town near Barstow (my dad was a fan of the old west gold rush times, we must have explored every nook and cranny in the Sierra a dozen times over or so).

And, the 16" Clark now at the University of Santa Clara was a pile of parts next to a Southern Pacific track. It was donated to them after the optician/engineer who was building a big 60" reflector absconded with the funds and left the big dome empty - so the 16" was setup in its stead. Or so the story was told.

This reflector looks to be from the 1800's, and probably had a speculum mirror, which likely dissolved.


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: wfj]
      #5574208 - 12/16/12 01:55 PM

They were using glass by that time

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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
*****

Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5574242 - 12/16/12 02:22 PM

I'm amazed that it is such "good" condition given the UK's maritime climate...

Gonna need a crane for that one...

Oh heck - I love it already...


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actionhac
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/09/08

Loc: Seattle
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5574276 - 12/16/12 02:45 PM

Around here where I live if it's too heavy to move you dig a hole next to the thing, push it in and fill the hole.
I went looking for my neighbors old Pontiac Silver Streak, last time I saw it was bout 20yrs past, thought I'd like to restore it, she buried it, with it's straight 8 engine and all

Robert


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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: actionhac]
      #5574286 - 12/16/12 02:54 PM

Aaaargh! What a shame, that would have been a beautiful motor.

Must have been a big hole too.

James


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JustinO
member


Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: wfj]
      #5574428 - 12/16/12 04:21 PM

"...had a speculum mirror, which likely dissolved."

This bronze alloy would outlast the steel and iron.


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Andy Howie
sage
*****

Reged: 09/10/05

Loc: Paisley, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5574495 - 12/16/12 05:00 PM

Mmmm. My forebears came from that 'neck of the woods'. Pretty close to being in the 'twilight zone', where everyone looks the same.

This really needs saving.

Andy.


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5574559 - 12/16/12 05:54 PM

Quote:

That scope has one massive mount.

Rich (RLTYS)




Too bad the latitude in Scotland isnt the same as in South Carolina, I think adjusting the polar axis wouldnt be very easy.


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Andy Howie
sage
*****

Reged: 09/10/05

Loc: Paisley, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5574624 - 12/16/12 06:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That scope has one massive mount.

Rich (RLTYS)




Too bad the latitude in Scotland isnt the same as in South Carolina, I think adjusting the polar axis wouldnt be very easy.





At a guess, I reckon the closest North American city in latitude would probably be Edmonton, Canada !!


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Andy Howie]
      #5574635 - 12/16/12 06:48 PM

Could turn the pier around and mount it on a north facing wall for lower latitudes?

Tim

Edited by tim53 (12/16/12 06:49 PM)


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JustinO
member


Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5574695 - 12/16/12 07:52 PM

I hope an astronomer gets it before a scrapper breaks it apart for the brass worm wheels.

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5574805 - 12/16/12 09:22 PM

Quote:

Too bad the latitude in Scotland isnt the same as in South Carolina, I think adjusting the polar axis wouldnt be very easy.




Actually, very simple. My club adjusted a similar mount when moving it 1,000 miles north from its original home. Just set it on a custom wedge. Works perfectly.

Maybe bring this mount home as deck cargo?


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grendel
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/12/09

Loc: Canterbury, Kent, UK
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5575641 - 12/17/12 12:32 PM

I would have thought if this is a With Browning that the optics would have been removed (they had an openable hatch just in front of the mirror)for storage and just the mount and tube left between observing sessions. I know someone in australia who rebuilt the tube of one where only the mirrors had survived.
Grendel
Grendel


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: grendel]
      #5575675 - 12/17/12 12:56 PM

It might be a Browning, but it more closely resembles the Calvers I've seen pics of online.

I suspect the optics aren't there and new mirrors would be needed. But there is so MUCH there that it would be a flying shame not to restore it.

-Tim.


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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5575702 - 12/17/12 01:12 PM

I've sent an email to a local astronomy society, the Airdrie Astronomical Society, to see if they can shed any light on the mystery.

James


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Dan /schechter
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/21/06

Loc: Long Beach, Calif.
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5575771 - 12/17/12 01:58 PM Attachment (36 downloads)

Bart Freid, an ATS member noticed that you can enlarge the Panpramio image if you click on it. He and John Briggs feel that the eyepiece end is pointing to the ground. I agree with John and Bart. The tube is pointing down. Also notice that there is much more tube length beyond the rings on the end pointing down. It is that way to balance the end that contains the mirror which weighs a lot more than the end that has the focuser unless some heavy instrument is attached which is why a counterweight mechanism is found on the mirror end. I have a Brashear 8" that is arranged the same.

It does not look like the mirror is present. Please notice you can see blue sky at the top of the notch. Even though the mirror is missing, this would be a wonderful labor of love for someone. Lets hope it gets restored.

Cheers,
Dan

Edited by Dan /schechter (12/17/12 02:01 PM)


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oldscope
member


Reged: 08/06/07

Loc: State of perpetual confusion
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5575782 - 12/17/12 02:11 PM

Another group that might shed some light on this telescope is the B.A.A. or perhaps also the R.A.S. Either may have a member-at-large in the vicinity. FWIW, I also think that it is a Calver telescope. One has to wonder what happened to the observatory that probably surrounded it. It's hard to believe that someone simply hauled it out to a field and left it. More likely the structure was removed from around it.

Bart


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5575842 - 12/17/12 02:48 PM

Removed or just rotted away, once the roof goes, a wooden structure disintegrates rapidly. then the Trees grow up in no time.
We once had a perfectly clear horse lot with a stable shed next to my mothers house and its solid trees now all on it's own in just 30 years of abandonment. No trace of the stable, just a forest. Of course, in South Carolina we have a humid and warm sub tropical climate, the rate of disintegration ought to be much slower in cold Scotland.


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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5575854 - 12/17/12 02:54 PM

Iam looking forward to watching this un-fold

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5575887 - 12/17/12 03:24 PM

Quote:

More likely the structure was removed from around it.




Would a scope of that era have been mounted on a concrete base? It seems to be sitting flush on the dirt.


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5575907 - 12/17/12 03:40 PM

Quote:

Would a scope of that era have been mounted on a concrete base? It seems to be sitting flush on the dirt.




Concrete was certainly invented at that time and in widespread use.

*

The story is going well so far. I am amazed by the activity and energy some folks are putting into this. There's hope for it, I think.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5575926 - 12/17/12 03:53 PM

I looked at the second photo of it, It's at the bottom of a hill, and does seem to be on dirt. More logical to be on top of the hill or at least on an area of level flat ground, so not likely to be in its original place I'm guessing.

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oldscope
member


Reged: 08/06/07

Loc: State of perpetual confusion
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5575931 - 12/17/12 03:56 PM

The second image that Justin posted sure makes it look like it is just sitting on a slight hillside, in the soil. Perhaps it was simply a glorified sheep-spotting scope?

Bart


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MessiToM
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Huntingdon PA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5575933 - 12/17/12 03:58 PM

faint fuzzy sheep, lol

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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5576076 - 12/17/12 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Would a scope of that era have been mounted on a concrete base? It seems to be sitting flush on the dirt.




Concrete was certainly invented at that time and in widespread use.




Sorry if I've been so polite as to have been vague. I'm doubting the notion that the building fell down around the scope. An observatory would have had a masonry pier or floor raised above the ground. Here, we see the scope on the ground, so I think it was dragged to this location.


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5576099 - 12/17/12 05:35 PM

That seems a reasonable deduction. Is this an eight inch or a ten inch instrument? Seems too thin to be a 12 inch, or that would be a 305mm mirror, for those of us who do not use the British system of measurement, but prefer the french one.

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tim53
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5576142 - 12/17/12 06:04 PM

My guess would be that it's either a 6 or an 8", possibly a 10, but I think that's less likely.

If the mirror end is up, my confusion over the way the tube is mounted is clarified.

-Tim.


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5576706 - 12/18/12 01:12 AM

I have done some historical research...
There was a Scottish giant, Benandonner, who evidently enjoyed terrorizing ant hills when he was a lad...


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: MessiToM]
      #5577248 - 12/18/12 12:40 PM

Quote:

faint fuzzy sheep, lol




Well ... they are somewhat elliptical. Some are quite compact ... the younger ones I think.


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wfj
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5577317 - 12/18/12 01:29 PM

Quote:

It might be a Browning, but it more closely resembles the Calvers I've seen pics of online.



Calver


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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5578853 - 12/19/12 12:46 PM

Have had the following reply from the Airdrie Astronomical Society:

Quote:

Thanks for your email. It's very interesting.

I have asked around and one of our former curators is doing a wee bit of research into the story. As soon as I hear back I will let you know what we find out.

Thanks for letting us know about it.




James


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5578875 - 12/19/12 01:00 PM

Excellent!

Looking at google maps, you can almost get a street view of where the s ope is, but not quite, due to the hill rolling down in that direction. Also, if the location is accurate, the scope is pretty near a house. Makes me wonder if the house replaced the observatory that housed the scope?

Tim


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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5578917 - 12/19/12 01:25 PM

Could be, what has surprised me was that so far Googling has not turned up any historical references to an observatory or local aristocrats (I would get no one else would have the ability to afford such an instrument in its day) with an interest in Astronomy.

Haven't heard anything from the local historical society yet!

James


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Escher
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5580442 - 12/20/12 11:07 AM

This thread is fascinating.... If *anyone* from the forum has the chance to get involved - you HAVE to take copious amounts of pics documenting every step.

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Andy Taylor
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Escher]
      #5581039 - 12/20/12 04:46 PM

Too far away for me.

WOW! - can you imagine it restored??

Built like a locomotive.


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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5581288 - 12/20/12 07:16 PM

Have now had the following from the local historical society:

Quote:

It's the remains of an old Newtonian telescope built by Dr Hunter in his home in Braidwood, and the area is called Telescope Field. Now only the framework, missing the lenses and mirrors.




James


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5581372 - 12/20/12 08:11 PM

That's a start!

Hey, if there's someone there who can inquire about its availability, and nobody there wants it, I have in-laws in Cardiff (yes, still a hell of a long haul) who know how to ship heavy items to the US.

Still, it makes the most sense if someone local wants to restore it. But seriously, if nobody does, I do.

-Tim.


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5581629 - 12/20/12 11:02 PM

Quote:

Have now had the following from the local historical society:

Quote:

It's the remains of an old Newtonian telescope built by Dr Hunter in his home in Braidwood, and the area is called Telescope Field. Now only the framework, missing the lenses and mirrors.




James




Nice work, James.

Now we are somewhere concrete. I suspect that Dr. Hunter is John R. S. Hunter-Selkirk, LLD (b. March 13, 1835, d. March 23, 1898) of Braidwood, a noted Scottish paleontologist and geologist. A good brief biography about him appears in History of the Geological Society of Glasgow, 1858-1908 by Geological Society of Glasgow, pp. 228-234 and it includes a fine portrait of him. There is no chance that he made this probable Calver telescope himself, methinks. He owned an estate called Daleville. I suspect that the manor house at Daleville may be the large house just South-East of the telescope location (per the photo GPS coordinates). The manor was about 300 yards from an historic ancient stone Tower called the Tower of Hallbar, where “Blind Harry” claimed that William Wallace stayed for three nights. It also shows up in Google Earth.

A very quick search turned up nothing about his astronomical endeavors though. Perhaps he was a member of the R.A.S. or the Royal Society? Or maybe he was simply a casual dilettante observer. He more or less married into money and if he could afford a small estate, he could afford a telescope, too.

Anyway, find the owner of that house and you've probably found the owner of the telescope. Then negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. I'd offer to take the eyesore off their land at a nominal fee.

Bart


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5581647 - 12/20/12 11:11 PM

Given that the scope sits in "Telescope Field," it has become part of local lore. It may need to be fixed in place, or nearby. Is there a nearby school, club, or historical society in need of a restored telescope?

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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5581654 - 12/20/12 11:17 PM

Quote:

Given that the scope sits in "Telescope Field," it has become part of local lore. It may need to be fixed in place, or nearby. Is there a nearby school, club, or historical society in need of a restored telescope?




Poppycock. Trade it for an old tractor and call it "Old Rusty Tractor field".


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5581664 - 12/20/12 11:22 PM

The locals may be unwilling to part with it, yet may accept or encourage its restoration if it stays in the area. Otherwise, ship it to Tim53!

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TahoeNoob
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5581699 - 12/20/12 11:46 PM

At what point are you guys going to figure out that at some point there won't be enough old scoopes to go around, and Tim already has his share. I'm thinking that (maybe) it's about time he takes up geetar, or something.

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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: TahoeNoob]
      #5581706 - 12/20/12 11:52 PM

Nah, my son's the guitar player (and builder)!

...but I must admit that I do have plenty of telescopes.

I can't imagine there isn't someone local to that scope who'll want to save it. If there isn't, though, it's "period" for our house:

El Mio

-Tim.


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5581715 - 12/21/12 12:01 AM

Bart, you're falling down, you missed this about Dr. Hunter's mentor:

"Dr. Slimon was not only an enthusiast in geology, but
a devoted astronomer and an admirable amateur artist,
and at one time gave two lectures in the City Hall,
entitled " Astronomical Geology." "

http://www.carlukehistory.co.uk/stories/story.php?page=61&title=Dr_Hunter...

That explains why the telescope is pointing down.


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5581746 - 12/21/12 12:28 AM

I have found an image of Dr. Hunter (it really is of him!):

[image removed by order of moderators.]


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5581762 - 12/21/12 12:47 AM

OBITUARIES

John Egbert Streatham Hunter-Selkirk, who died on March 23,
in the sixty-third year of his age, at his residence, Daleville House,
Braidwood, near Carluke, Lanarkshire, was a well-known antiquary
and geologist. From his rich collections he had made large donations
to the Museums of Kilmarnock and Airdrie, and he also bequeathed
some to different Institutions. For many years he had been a member
of the Koyal Physical Society of Edinburgh, and of the Geological
Societies of Edinburgh and Glasgow.


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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5581788 - 12/21/12 01:34 AM

Dr Hunter seems to have been a man of many interests: from the FutureMuseum site:

Quote:


John Hunter-Selkirk
The 'Braidwood Collection' amassed by John Hunter-Selkirk was often described as "one of the most important ever brought together in this country by a private individual". The collection is wide-ranging and includes fossils, antiquities and early printed books. Hunter-Selkirk was one of the best known scientists of his day and had many famous friends in the fields of science and art.





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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5581844 - 12/21/12 03:27 AM

Some further information found on a cached web page about the Airdrie Public Observatory - Airdrie is a town about 10 miles NNW of Braidwood:

Quote:

1894 - DR HUNTER SELKIRK

When the library was opened in 1894, it was Dr Hunter-Selkirk from Carluke who was the main contributor to the new museum of which it is written, “many cases were filled” – the cases presumably being display cases for the newly acquired collection. Dr Hunter Selkirk is arguably the final catalyst that brought about the creation of the observatory and with it an astronomical society, which continues in Airdrie to the present day.
A plaque was presented to Dr Hunter-Selkirk from the town council Library Committee of the Burgh of Airdrie. The plaque states “In commemoration of the valuable gift of part of the Braidwood Collection to the museum Dr Hunter Selkirk of Daleville, Carluke”
The link between the observatory and Dr Hunter Selkirk was Mr Robert Dunlop. It was Robert Dunlop who brought to the attention of Dr Hunter-Selkirk the new Airdrie Museum being created.




James


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grendel
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5581869 - 12/21/12 04:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Given that the scope sits in "Telescope Field," it has become part of local lore. It may need to be fixed in place, or nearby. Is there a nearby school, club, or historical society in need of a restored telescope?





Poppycock. Trade it for an old tractor and call it "Old Rusty Tractor field".




there are those that would be just as interested in an old rusty tractor to take away and restore as we are in an old scope...
Grendel


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5582070 - 12/21/12 08:50 AM

Quote:

OBITUARIES

John Egbert Streatham Hunter-Selkirk, who died on March 23,
in the sixty-third year of his age, at his residence, Daleville House,
Braidwood, near Carluke, Lanarkshire, was a well-known antiquary
and geologist. From his rich collections he had made large donations
to the Museums of Kilmarnock and Airdrie, and he also bequeathed
some to different Institutions. For many years he had been a member
of the Koyal Physical Society of Edinburgh, and of the Geological
Societies of Edinburgh and Glasgow.




His name is more correctly John Robert Strathern Hunter-Selkirk. His membership in the Royal Physical Society of Edinburgh would also place him in the company of astronomers as well as geologists and other naturalists. Obviously he had varied scientific interests ... a classic gentleman-naturalist who didn't seem to have to work for a living. Nice gig if you can get (marry) it.

Bart


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5582079 - 12/21/12 08:56 AM

Quote:

Some further information found on a cached web page about the Airdrie Public Observatory - Airdrie is a town about 10 miles NNW of Braidwood:

Quote:

1894 - DR HUNTER SELKIRK

When the library was opened in 1894, it was Dr Hunter-Selkirk from Carluke who was the main contributor to the new museum of which it is written, “many cases were filled” – the cases presumably being display cases for the newly acquired collection. Dr Hunter Selkirk is arguably the final catalyst that brought about the creation of the observatory and with it an astronomical society, which continues in Airdrie to the present day.
A plaque was presented to Dr Hunter-Selkirk from the town council Library Committee of the Burgh of Airdrie. The plaque states “In commemoration of the valuable gift of part of the Braidwood Collection to the museum Dr Hunter Selkirk of Daleville, Carluke”
The link between the observatory and Dr Hunter Selkirk was Mr Robert Dunlop. It was Robert Dunlop who brought to the attention of Dr Hunter-Selkirk the new Airdrie Museum being created.




James




Once again, nice work James! I haven't been able to find anything published by Hunter related to astronomy so it appears that his interest was mainly as an amateur.

Bart


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5582096 - 12/21/12 09:06 AM

Interesting coinky dink. I'm a geologist as well. ...but I've always had to work for a living!

Since JRSH-S seems to be so well-known and locally-regarded, it seems all the more sensible that someone local should save the scope. I wonder if the original optics have survived somewhere and can be found?

-Tim.


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5582114 - 12/21/12 09:15 AM

Quote:

Have had the following reply from the Airdrie Astronomical Society:

Quote:

Thanks for your email. It's very interesting.

I have asked around and one of our former curators is doing a wee bit of research into the story. As soon as I hear back I will let you know what we find out.

Thanks for letting us know about it.




James




James,

Considering Airdrie Astronomical Association/Airdrie Public Observatory' proximity and the very strong historical connection to Dr. Hunter, it would seem a natural fit that they would want to rescue the telescope from its eventual demise. They certainly have a real sense of stewardship for old telescopes - they have a beautiful Cooke telescope that is well cared for! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8291201.stm

"Initially, the local group of astronomers met in the first of Airdrie's public observatories (now the Airdrie Arts Centre on Anderson Street)."

Perhaps they might display it at this Arts center ... sorry, centre?

Bart


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5582133 - 12/21/12 09:29 AM

Quote:

Bart, ... That explains why the telescope is pointing down.




He was more noted as a paleontologist (and thus the dinosaur he's riding in the caricature.) So I think it more likely that the telescope is pointed down to find very tiny fossils.

Bart


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5582175 - 12/21/12 09:57 AM

"A fortunate connection with the Selkirk family assisted to smooth for him the path of advancement, and led ultimately to his marriage with a lady of that name, Miss Mary Selkirk, whose father was Selkirk the wealthy mine-owner in Braidwood."

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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5582274 - 12/21/12 10:55 AM

I completely agree with Mister Cepleur. It should be left in place as a monument. Perhaps the plot around it should be mowed, a Victorian iron fence, and a plaque installed. It is an artifact of 19th century industrial/scientific archaeology. It should not be further disturbed, but left for future generations until it is a mound of ferric and cupric oxide, when at such time, only it's place name will survive on the ordinance maps of that future date.

I too am a geologist/geophysicist who has had to work and a good deal of that work has been in conjunction with archaeologists at both pre-historic and historic archaeological sites in the States and Europe. I have seen far too many sites looted of important artifacts that were subsequently dragged off to far flung museums and the drawing rooms of wealthy dilettantes. Leave it for future posterity. Let it inspire their interest and curiosity as it has your own.


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5582282 - 12/21/12 11:04 AM

"...It should be ..."

Someone owns it. It is theirs to do with as they please.


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oldscope
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5582408 - 12/21/12 12:25 PM

Quote:

I completely agree with Mister Cepleur. It should be left in place as a monument. Perhaps the plot around it should be mowed, a Victorian iron fence, and a plaque installed. It is an artifact of 19th century industrial/scientific archaeology. It should not be further disturbed, but left for future generations until it is a mound of ferric and cupric oxide, when at such time, only it's place name will survive on the ordinance maps of that future date.

I too am a geologist/geophysicist who has had to work and a good deal of that work has been in conjunction with archaeologists at both pre-historic and historic archaeological sites in the States and Europe. I have seen far too many sites looted of important artifacts that were subsequently dragged off to far flung museums and the drawing rooms of wealthy dilettantes. Leave it for future posterity. Let it inspire their interest and curiosity as it has your own.




Hmnnn ... that's one way to look at it. With respect, here's another. It was never just sitting out in a field when it was used, so it is not an artifact in its 'natural' environment like a statue, building or even a rusty tractor. (no offense, Grendel!)

And leaving it to disintegrate in the elements does nothing for it as a 'monument', especially in some out of the way private sheep field. Even the local astro society was apparently unaware of it. Equating saving this telescope from destruction as the same as raiding an archeological dig is, IMHO, a real stretch here. When (presumably) Calver made the telescope, the intention was for it to be used, not looked at. It is not a fossil and with some new glass and a lot of TLC, it can be used again. Or in a display setting, perhaps it can inspire some youngster to become interested in astronomy.

The key concept here is stewardship, not malignant neglect. It would be great if it were sitting in its original observatory, whatever that looked like, but we're not that lucky. Fortunately, this telescope is in reasonably good shape and certainly not beyond repair and use. If left alone, it will be gone in a century. If conserved or restored, it could be around - and used - for many centuries.

In other words, yes the field could be mowed and a plaque put in place while the telescope disintegrates ... or the field could be mowed, a plaque put in place while the telescope is put back into use and saved for posterity. The latter makes sense to me.

But as Justin points out, it's the owner's telescope ... it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Maybe this one can be resurrected. Calver's telescopes are rare birds.

Bart


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wfj
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5582513 - 12/21/12 01:27 PM

This has been an enjoyable thread. Thank you to the various researchers who have added tidbits to it.

Quote:

Given that the scope sits in "Telescope Field," it has become part of local lore.



In Amador County in California, there's a monument to "Telescope Hill", where a local astronomer chose to observe the great comet of the time. If you know where to look, you can find the pier of a 8" Clark nearby, made of aggregate and mortar - still has the bolts.

There is nothing special to the appellation. If you wish to hunt for more of these, where you start is in finding these places - there are hundreds in California alone. They are a form of recognition of (usually) amateur astronomers who made an impact on a local town, long after the decline/disappearance. When I talked (as a young man) to locals about this (in the 60's/70's), the impression I got was that they had wished that somehow more of the past had endured such that they could have had the chance to understand it in the present better, but fate didn't work out that way.

Quote:

Maybe this one can be resurrected. Calver's telescopes are rare birds.



Bart, you have the guiding light here IMHO.

Quote:

I have seen far too many sites looted of important artifacts that were subsequently dragged off to far flung museums and the drawing rooms of wealthy dilettantes.



Terra, I appreciate the sentiment. I too hate "grave robbers", especially in an insanely commercial world.

It is reasonable to presume that this is a tomb of sorts, and it certainly is poetic that someone who appreciated past artifacts would leave artifacts of his own to be considered in like kind.

But I'd also like to consider that often natural philosophers of this kind valued the understanding of the past, passed on to the future, more than the ritual surrounding their death. It is also highly likely he didn't even consider disposition near death, so its probably an accidental monument.

So the question to be considered is not "should we respect the dead?" but "would the dead wish to remedy the accident of fate?"

How should we judge this?

Quote:

"Dr Hunter Selkirk is arguably the final catalyst that brought about the creation of the observatory and with it an astronomical society, which continues in Airdrie to the present day."



This shows what his intent and legacy is. To me this answers the above well. Note especially the "continues".

How does the presumed action with the scope aid the "continues"?


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Datapanic
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: wfj]
      #5582532 - 12/21/12 01:40 PM

If it's going to continue to be there, then someone ought to go out there and swing the tube around (if it can even move) so it's pointing at the sky!

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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5582716 - 12/21/12 03:55 PM

Well perhaps it could be placed in a local museum or better yet a local observatory. Perhaps the local amateur groups could be persuaded to restore it. Perhaps, if nothing else, it could be uprighted, removed to the local village square, placed on a stone and masonry or concrete pad, and have the rust removed and the iron surfaces oiled in the fashion of old Civil War and WWI artillery pieces here in the US, it was a grand old "sky cannon" after all. A nice historical marker or informational plaque should also be placed with it.

I have always felt that remembering and appreciating one's local history is a good step towards knowing and appreciating one's national history and tangible artifacts are a great talisman for just that. After all, the optics are gone, but the skeleton could be preserved and honored in it's homeground so to speak.

I think it would be a darned shame to have it completely removed from it's context.


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JustinO
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5582762 - 12/21/12 04:23 PM

I recommend the old pile of scrap be auctioned by the owner to the highest bidder. Anyone with a wish for a particular future for the scope can contribute to a like minded bidder.

The free market works. Hey! Scotland, Scottish Enlightenment, Adam Smith, Free Market!


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5583148 - 12/21/12 08:14 PM

Quote:

I completely agree with Mister Cepleur. It should be left in place as a monument. Perhaps the plot around it should be mowed, a Victorian iron fence, and a plaque installed. It is an artifact of 19th century industrial/scientific archaeology. It should not be further disturbed, but left for future generations until it is a mound of ferric and cupric oxide, when at such time, only it's place name will survive on the ordinance maps of that future date.




You are welcome to that view, but please do not misunderstand it as being mine. I would like to see the scope restored and properly housed indoors (of course with an opening roof!). I am saying only that if at all possible, it belongs in the region where it was born, because its history rightly belongs to the long-time residents there. Should the scope prove beyond restoration, perhaps a working copy could be built, with the original displayed nearby in the same building.

Quote:

I recommend the old pile of scrap be auctioned by the owner to the highest bidder. Anyone with a wish for a particular future for the scope can contribute to a like minded bidder.

The free market works. Hey! Scotland, Scottish Enlightenment, Adam Smith, Free Market!




"Old pile of scrap?" Respect the concern that the rest of us have for a once great scope of historical significance.

The rules of this forum explicitly disallow discussions of politics. To say free markets work when they allow wealthy people from away to buy the history that the locals may be able to afford to preserve, but would surely lose in a bidding war, is not a statement of fact. It is political opinion. We are here to discuss telescopes, not politics.

I have no problem with the telescope being shipped away should it become apparent that no one locally would preserve it, but we have only begun to explore the possibilities.

Quote:

I have always felt that remembering and appreciating one's local history is a good step towards knowing and appreciating one's national history and tangible artifacts are a great talisman for just that. After all, the optics are gone, but the skeleton could be preserved and honored in it's homeground so to speak.

I think it would be a darned shame to have it completely removed from it's context.






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Escher
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5583319 - 12/21/12 10:39 PM

I agree with bits and pieces... I agree that the scope should be preserved - and I also agree that *if possible* it should remain in historical / geographical context.

However - if the region and locals have abandoned it and care not for it... then I wholeheartedly believe it should be restored / moved to where it can be appreciated for years to come. A proper history and display could be built around the scope in any observatory run by a respectful club / organization. To me its a shame to let a beautiful piece of workmanship rot and I fail to see respect in that.


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Escher]
      #5583474 - 12/22/12 12:57 AM

I think we've done what we can. It's up to the owner(s) and the local amateurs and museums what they want to do about it, if anything.

We can certainly hope it'll get preserved, of course.

-Tim.


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JustinO
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Reged: 10/08/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5583562 - 12/22/12 03:33 AM

Cepleur: you just went about a thousand times further into politics than anyone else here. It is upsetting to the rest of us. Please refrain from doing so in the future.

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Robert Law
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Escher]
      #5583709 - 12/22/12 08:40 AM

This is a fasinating ! it has a connection with Airdrie Observatory , this scope should be saved and restored back into working use I am sure Dr John Hunter-Sekirk would love to see his telescope in use in fact it could go into airdrie observatory to replace the current telescope which we have only found out reccently is not a Cooke allthough the mount is I am going to have to go and look at this telescope and see what we can do

Robert Law ( former curator and hon member airdrie astronomical association) now at mills observatory Dundee


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Robert Law
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Escher]
      #5583713 - 12/22/12 08:43 AM

Quote:

This thread is fascinating.... If *anyone* from the forum has the chance to get involved - you HAVE to take copious amounts of pics documenting every step.




I certiny will take photos and video and also 3D pictures when I get to visit this telescope and certinly if can restore it would document it


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roscoe
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5583721 - 12/22/12 08:48 AM

Quote:

Cepleur: you just went about a thousand times further into politics than anyone else here. It is upsetting to the rest of us. Please refrain from doing so in the future.




Well, it wasn't upsetting to me...... there is some real justification in not hauling antiquities away just because the new owner can, there is also justification in the current owners selling the 'pile of rust' in their back yard. After all, how many of us have beautiful classic scopes that were mouldering away in an attic or cellar, should they have stayed there instead? How many lovingly restored 1957 Chevvies were previously mouldering away in sheds and barns? Should they have been left?
If the owners want to leave it as is, that is their choice. If they just found out it's worth a pretty penny, and want to ebay it, that's their choice also. It's not like anyone's suggesting backing a lorry into the field at 3AM some foggy morning and making off with it...... because the line between tomb raiding and restoration/display can be a fine one.
I think that 'we' have done the locals a service by beginning the process of identifying a potentially important artifact, it is up to them to figure out what to do (if anything) about the scope. Meanwhile, we have all learned a bit more about old scopes and astro-history, and that is good stuff.
That's my two cents....
Russ


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Masvingo
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Robert Law]
      #5583726 - 12/22/12 08:56 AM

Quote:

This is a fasinating ! it has a connection with Airdrie Observatory , this scope should be saved and restored back into working use I am sure Dr John Hunter-Sekirk would love to see his telescope in use in fact it could go into airdrie observatory to replace the current telescope which we have only found out reccently is not a Cooke allthough the mount is I am going to have to go and look at this telescope and see what we can do

Robert Law ( former curator and hon member airdrie astronomical association) now at mills observatory Dundee




Excellent! Very glad to hear this Robert.

And welcome to CLoudy Nights!

Given that Dr Hunter-Selkirk seems to have been involved with the setting up of Airdrie Observatory I think it would be great if his 'scope ended up there.

James


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: JustinO]
      #5583894 - 12/22/12 11:21 AM

The mere mention of Adam Smith (The Wealth of Nations) makes my blood boil. He may have been Scottish but he was not an astronomer! I agree that this is not the place for such discussions!

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John Jarosz
Astro Gearhead
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5584238 - 12/22/12 03:01 PM

I'm a little troubled by this thread. The scope is on private land. Therefore, someone owns it. If it were me, and a group of people unknown to me showed up at my door and started telling me what I should do with it, I would be much more than troubled. It's an interesting find, but let the owner do as he wishes. As someone already said, the current owner may be keeping it in it's place as a memorial to the original builder who have been a ancestor. No one on this forum has any 'rights' pertaining to this scope. They may have personal opinions, but those opinions should not be used as arguments as to the disposition of this scope with the current owner. The owner's right to privacy in this matter should have the utmost consideration. Rant off.

John


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: John Jarosz]
      #5584304 - 12/22/12 03:55 PM

I think that's a tad harsh. To my knowledge no one is telling the owner what to do.

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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5585184 - 12/23/12 08:03 AM

Come on folks, lets keep this discussion on the scope and not go into political and personal issues.

Rich (RLTYS)


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Zoomster
Vendor - Clear Sky Adventures
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Loc: Tampa FL
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5585272 - 12/23/12 09:31 AM

Yeah, please keep this on track I think it's just gorgeous and must be every steampunk lovers dream!! I once found a 1960's era bicycle in my neighbors garage (chrome fenders, sissy bar etc.) who I was helping clean out. She was in her eighties and remembered riding it back in the day and when I expressed interest in it she graciously gave it to me and I had every intention of restoring it, but as with some plans it never came about, but I was able to gift it to a friend who did have the time and resources to do the work and when he rode it by my house one day a month later fully restored it was just the coolest thing.

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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Robert Law]
      #5592453 - 12/28/12 10:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This thread is fascinating.... If *anyone* from the forum has the chance to get involved - you HAVE to take copious amounts of pics documenting every step.




I certiny will take photos and video and also 3D pictures when I get to visit this telescope and certinly if can restore it would document it




Hi Robert:

I realize it's the holiday season and all, but was curious if there might be any late news on this telescope?

best,
-Tim.


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CPHS
newbie


Reged: 12/28/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5592813 - 12/28/12 02:52 PM

From: Carluke Parish Historical Society

The telescope frame is iron and more than 120 years old. Its all that is remaining. The lens and mirrors were removed and may be in Edinburgh University now. Due to the weather in Braidwood I guess they were always removeable, leaving just the frame in the field. Yes, it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.
As far as we know there are no photographs in circulation of the working telescope though there are pics of Hunter-Selkirk in his top hat.


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CPHS
newbie


Reged: 12/28/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: oldscope]
      #5592825 - 12/28/12 02:57 PM

As far as I know it WAS always sitting out in the field from the day is was constructed (poss a tent in summer??) but the lens and mirrors were removeable.

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actionhac
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: CPHS]
      #5593081 - 12/28/12 06:25 PM

One of these days I'm going to do that.
Keep it oiled and brush on a thick coat of paint once in a while.
I would get more use out of it.
See here's how its done:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/garden-telescope

Robert


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: actionhac]
      #5593099 - 12/28/12 06:35 PM

Hey Robert. Maybe that Fecker 12"?

I'm going to go and cry now about that Calver...

-Tim.


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actionhac
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5593118 - 12/28/12 06:47 PM

The Fecker would be perfect.
If I'd thought about it at the time I probably would have bought it.
Much to the horror of my wife though, her hobby is plants, roses in particular and she wouldn't like a big old telescope yard art, working or not.

Robert


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: actionhac]
      #5593136 - 12/28/12 06:56 PM

Well, keep that contact info for the Fecker. I just might... if I can figure out where to put it!

You had a thread about it, didn't you? I need to bookmark it.

If I were near the Calver, I'd offer to put a shed over it. Or, at the very least, paint it with some axle grease.

-Tim.


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Karl Fabian
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Loc: Illinois
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5593181 - 12/28/12 07:21 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

This is what I would envision as a more desirable fate for that old Calver rather than rusting away in an out of the way field.

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actionhac
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Loc: Seattle
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5593184 - 12/28/12 07:25 PM

I never did a thread only posts in the ads.
I went back through my mail though and here it is:
https://picasaweb.google.com/MooseMtAttack/TelescopeRestorationProject
Norm is his name 509-987-3823
I asked my wife just now and she said "it ain't gunna happen" usually when she talks primitive like that she means it. The yard is very special to her.

Robert


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: actionhac]
      #5593235 - 12/28/12 07:54 PM

Man, that mount would be sweet on a permanent pier with about an 18" cassegrain on it

Tim


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wfj
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Karl Fabian]
      #5593296 - 12/28/12 08:28 PM

Quote:

This is what I would envision as a more desirable fate for that old Calver rather than rusting away in an out of the way field.



Sums up my thoughts exactly. Extremely doable with permission, intent, and will.


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: CPHS]
      #5593431 - 12/28/12 10:09 PM

Quote:

it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.




Must an "ancient monument" be left to the weather, eventually to disintegrate, or would the law allow the scope to be refurbished and preserved in situ?


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SkipW
sage


Reged: 02/03/11

Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: CPHS]
      #5593463 - 12/28/12 10:33 PM

Quote:

From: Carluke Parish Historical Society

The telescope frame is iron and more than 120 years old. Its all that is remaining. The lens and mirrors were removed and may be in Edinburgh University now. Due to the weather in Braidwood I guess they were always removeable, leaving just the frame in the field. Yes, it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.
As far as we know there are no photographs in circulation of the working telescope though there are pics of Hunter-Selkirk in his top hat.



<soapbox>Just because someone is from an "Historical Society" doesn't mean they're automatically right about things like this, and I find this attitude utterly appalling. Just let it rust away in a field? Where's the value (historical or otherwise) in that?

Document it so its context can be understood and it can be returned if desired, but protect what's left of the instrument from the elements at the very least (which would mean changing the site at least some if it stays there). Is that OK? Why? If not, why not? Better (imo), return it to working condition using as many original parts as possible and replicas when necessary AND USE IT, even if it's not in the original site.

If some significant discovery or other event occurred at that specific site with that instrument, you could argue that the location with the telescope there is a shrine and the telescope should stay there. Otherwise, preserve the instrument and use it if at all possible; if at a different location, so be it. It sounds like it was a nice old telescope that was used for personal pleasure and then neglected for decades. That's an ancient monument? Really? It was built to be used, and resuming that is a far more fitting legacy.</soapbox>


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: SkipW]
      #5593520 - 12/28/12 11:08 PM

I agree with SkipW's sentiments in principle, yet I wonder whether this "ancient monuments" business is British legal jargon. Could it be that, after surviving 100 years, the scope has become as protected as another Stonehenge? Who reading this knows?

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iceblaze
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/15/11

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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: SkipW]
      #5593524 - 12/28/12 11:09 PM

Well said SkipW. I wonder how much of this resistance is simply due to its size/mass. If it were Hunter-Selkirk's 60mm refractor laying out there, then surely someone would have at least put it in a museum by now

-James


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Datapanic
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5593621 - 12/29/12 12:18 AM

Quote:

I agree with SkipW's sentiments in principle, yet I wonder whether this "ancient monuments" business is British legal jargon. Could it be that, after surviving 100 years, the scope has become as protected as another Stonehenge? Who reading this knows?




In one way, I agree with Skip as well. But, in the U.K., 100 years is not old, at all.

It would be nice to see this thing restored to its original grandeur, but the optics are probably missing and there's no shelter for it and, who's going to pay for all that? Restorations can get very expensive in no time at all and then there's the question of providing some kind of shelter for it. It also seems that whomever owns it has no interest in saving it nor selling it and relocating it. Most likely, this thing is going to stay where it's at and slowly deteriorate. At least it doesn't seem to have been vandalized...


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seafury
super member


Reged: 01/18/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5593772 - 12/29/12 03:48 AM

as soon as the local crooks find out its there it will be pinched and cut up for scrap, aftr all they pinch the war memorials and cut them up for scrap so an old telescope would mean nothing to them, after all to a non astronomer it almost looks like another dumped bit of farm equipment


gordon

Edited by seafury (12/29/12 03:50 AM)


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5594396 - 12/29/12 01:17 PM

The Parliament of the United Kingdom passed Ancient Monument Protection Acts in 1882, 1900, 1910, and 1979. While the Acts of 1882 and 1900 are more specifically aimed at protecting archaeological sites and particularly pre-historic archaeological sites, the Act of 1910 expands the content of coverage to historical artifacts, structures, etc. deemed to be significant.

This was again further expanded in the Act of 1979 to include "any other monument which in the opinion of the Secretary of State is of public interest by reason of the historic, architectural, traditional, artistic or archaeological interest attaching to it".

The Act goes on to further define "monument" as:
"any building, structure or work above or below the surface of the land, any cave or excavation; any site comprising the remains of any such building, structure or work or any cave or excavation; and any site comprising or comprising the remains of any vehicle, vessel or aircraft or other movable structure or part thereof." (Section 61 (7))

This would pretty well covers it I would think. Often a couple of general tests that are applied to historical preservation and cultural resource management in most European countries would be:

(1) Is the monument significant to or has it survived in the collective generational memory of the local or national culture?
and
(2) Has a place name been affixed to it?

These last two points were what I used in my surmise that it should be protected in place in my original post.

Since it is conjoined to the placename "Telescope Hill" and is no doubt in and of itself the reason for that name, since it is still in its original location (as confirmed by the reply from the local historical society), since it has stood there for more than 100 years (in the minds of several generations and through two world wars), and since it was constructed by a well known local naturalist of the Victorian period, I think it would be viewed as a protected piece.


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5594412 - 12/29/12 01:22 PM

As far as "pinching it and cutting it up for scrap" such would be considered a criminal offense prosecutable to the full extent of the law. I'm sure the locals including the local "crooks" are well aware of its existence and of the extent of the law. I think people of Great Britain have a little more respect for things and lack the frontier mentality that we see in a lot of places. That is not a political comment, merely an observation. And I could certainly be wrong.

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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5594462 - 12/29/12 01:49 PM

Hi terra:

Thanks for posting that. I agree that it should probably remain where it is, though it would certainly be nice to see it restored and put back to use, or at least sheltered to arrest its further decay.

I live in the largest "historic overlay zone" in Los Angeles. The rules of what home owners can do with/to their property aren't as stringent as a "historic district" because we have structures spanning the past 150 years, including modern ones lacking historic significance. Our own house is an LA City Monument and is on the National Register of HIstoric Places.

There used to be a grand Victorian hotel about a mile from here, and adjacent to the passenger rail line of the time. The tracks are long gone because the current light rail uses the old freight right of way, which differs slightly from the old passenger route. Sadly, the hotel, the Garvanza Villa Hotel, burned down sometime after 1910. Up until a few years ago, the only thing that remained was an arroyo-stone bench in the corner of the property facing the railroad tracks. It had been given monument status during the 70s, because the owner of the property was threatening to demolish it. His complaint was that it was being tagged and vagrants were sleeping on it. Our old house group offered to move it, if we could find a new site for it. But, a few years ago when nobody was watching, the owner broke it up with a sledge hammer and threw it away.

That would be my only remaining concern for the fate of this telescope. Of course, any catastrophic event could result in the destruction and loss of a historic monument. I can still hope that the telescope will be protected, maybe even restored and reused. Wouldn't it be great if the original optics could be found and put back with the scope, or vice-versa?

I can understand leaving certain important historic artifacts alone out of respect for people and events of the past - like the Titanic or Truk Lagoon. But even Truk Lagoon makes me cry sometimes, thinking of vintage planes that could be recovered and restored, and of which there are no surviving flyable examples anywhere in the world today.

Sorry for the ramble!

-Tim.


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5594553 - 12/29/12 02:38 PM

Hi Tim,

I totally agree with you on erecting a structure, even a pergola in Victorian style over it and having some information about it on a plaque or something, so that it would last longer, being protected from the elements. I am a big one for historic preservation. I was born in San Bernardino and grew up in Rialto but moved away many years ago, still in time to see them destroy many/most historic structures in the two towns for the sake of redevelopment (read graft and payoffs to the "developers". I saw them tear out the PE line, the historic city hall and fire station down town, burn the Santa Fe station, etc in Rialto and completely destroy downtown San Bernardino with the exception on one department store and one historic theater. The beautiful California Hotel was razed as was St. Bernardine's High School. They did manage to keep the California Theater. Rialto still has most of its old downtown and the PE station. Gone are the packing houses, orange groves, and Victorian grove houses that gave it its charm back when it was a little "Mayberry." When I was a kid we had 10,000 people in Rialto, when I left it was up to 36,000 and now its over 100,000.
It was merely symptomatic of what went on all over southern California. Like your historic old bench, we had several old structures that were deemed of historical interest and were to be kept preserved, instead, they mysteriously burned down :;): and then the property was re-developed.

I loved it several years ago when they put Angel's Flight incline back in L.A. only to close it a few months later. Bunker Hill was full of huge, beautiful old Victorian houses in downtown L.A. and all were torn down (I think for the ARCO Plaza).

This is one reason I am big on historic preservation other than spending most of my career as a geologist consulting for archaeologists. If we don't preserve it, its gone forever.

Thanks for the ramble, I enjoyed reading it. It reminded me of Cali in "the good old days" (the 50s and 60s).


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seafury
super member


Reged: 01/18/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5594646 - 12/29/12 03:50 PM

Hi sorry to shatter your illusions of the UK, I am from the UK and I am scottish as well, trust me if it isn't tied down it can go , they actualy prize the metal war memorial plaques with all the names of the fallen off and cut them up for scrap !

Gordon

Edited by seafury (12/29/12 03:52 PM)


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5594656 - 12/29/12 03:59 PM

Thanks for letting us know Gordon. What a shame. It's like that here with copper. People have come home to find their downspouts stripped and their AC coils pillaged. Well I stand corrected. The grass always looks greener on the other side you know. Alas... sigh

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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5594662 - 12/29/12 04:03 PM

Hi Terra:

Interesting coincidences: I'm a geologist (work on Opportunity and Curiosity projects at JPL) and my wife is an archaeologist (teaches at PCC).

I love old stuff: Telescopes, houses, cars...

Gordon:

Well, I can still only hope (maybe all I can do, after all), that someone over there will do something to protect it. The nice thing about cast iron, perhaps, is that it's pretty heavy for its value, so less likely to be pilfered. The bronze, not so much.

Fingers crossed (though I'd do something myself if I could),
-Tim.


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seafury
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5594693 - 12/29/12 04:24 PM

Hi if it's survived for this long it is probably safe and I can't believe that a lot of people who should know about it don't already do so

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grendel
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5594862 - 12/29/12 06:32 PM

If you think the property preservations are bad in LA you should try the british listings. we used to live in a grade 2 listed building, this meant that we were unable to alter the external appearance of the property in any way, if windows were replaced they had to be replaced like for like - down to the wood frames and thickness of the bars between panes.
grade 1 listing is even more prohibitive banning internal modifications too, no modifications can be done that affect or alter the character of the building.
as Gordon says - where scrap is concerned the thieves have no regard for history or safety, they steal any copper brass or bronze they can, cast iron will probably be safe as its difficult to move and doesnt hold such a high price as non ferrous metals. when the thieves will break in and steal copper earthing from live substations with no regard for their own safety, there is no telling what they will do.
Grendel


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Karl Fabian
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: grendel]
      #5596058 - 12/30/12 12:25 PM

The only thing that will save this historic telescope is the intervention of local astronomy clubs or a museum (probably with media exposure). In my opinion it is an outrage that there is resistance to doing anything because of a silly notion that it "was always there" and using that argument as justification to allow it to rust away as a "monument". That is utter nonsense. The telescope when in use was sheltered. Now it is nothing more than a historic piece of scientific hardware ABANDONED to the elements. Such a piece of local history should be properly placed in a local museum irregardless of the asinine notion that rusting in a field is more desirable. It is a shame Sir Patrick Moore is no longer with us. I am sure he would have had a few choice "eloquent" words regarding this appalling situation.

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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: grendel]
      #5596082 - 12/30/12 12:37 PM

Quote:

If you think the property preservations are bad in LA you should try the british listings.




Don't get me wrong, I am all for preservation of LA's history. So much so that when we were arguing with our insurance company over repairing our house after the fire 11 years ago that destroyed the attic and roof, it was us who insisted that all the surviving architectural details on the inside of the house be preserved, and the stuff that didn't survive would be replicated with like materials. No aluminum or "tupperware" windows in this old house!

-Tim.


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5596086 - 12/30/12 12:39 PM

Karl:

We can hope, I suppose, that the locals will come to the realization that the telescope is probably worth more as a restored instrument than a rusting monument. Hopefully, before that's no longer the case due to its deterioration.

-Tim.


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Karl Fabian
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5596216 - 12/30/12 01:56 PM

Tim, Putting it in a museum and merely giving it a superficial cosmetic cleanup and paint job would even be ok for educational/historic display. Would cost very little

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grendel
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Reged: 04/12/09

Loc: Canterbury, Kent, UK
Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Karl Fabian]
      #5596220 - 12/30/12 02:03 PM

Quote:

The only thing that will save this historic telescope is the intervention of local astronomy clubs or a museum (probably with media exposure). In my opinion it is an outrage that there is resistance to doing anything because of a silly notion that it "was always there" and using that argument as justification to allow it to rust away as a "monument". That is utter nonsense. The telescope when in use was sheltered. Now it is nothing more than a historic piece of scientific hardware ABANDONED to the elements. Such a piece of local history should be properly placed in a local museum irregardless of the asinine notion that rusting in a field is more desirable. It is a shame Sir Patrick Moore is no longer with us. I am sure he would have had a few choice "eloquent" words regarding this appalling situation.



while we are at it - should we straighten up the stones and repair stonehenge? after all that too is thought to be a primitive astronomical instrument.
there are in existence good examples of this type of telescope, so there isn't the excuse that it is the last remaining example of its kind.
the field is named for its presence, it is a memorial to a great scientist, if preserved it should be done in situ, whether to bring it back to a working telescope is debatable, the telescope was originally placed outdoors with removeable optics, so if restored should be left in it original location and retain its original useage, but to be honest its down to what the owners decide.
my feeling is that while restoration can sometimes be a good thing, but to destroy the character and original patina on an object can destroy that originality. after all we dont jet wash the stones at stonehenge do we.
Grendel


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seafury
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Karl Fabian]
      #5596222 - 12/30/12 02:03 PM

I can't believe that all the local clubs etc don't already know about this scope afrer all these are small communities

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dgreyson
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: seafury]
      #5596584 - 12/30/12 05:12 PM

I'd like to see that done, yes.

Replace the Marble casings on the Pyramids too and I'd also advocate rebuilding the Parthenon as well except we have already done that one in Nashville Tennessee and put up quite a nice statue of Athena in it in case any visitors have the urge to sacrifice a dove or two while visiting.


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: grendel]
      #5596780 - 12/30/12 07:22 PM

Well put Grendel. I love your Stonehenge analogy

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Karl Fabian
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: grendel]
      #5596785 - 12/30/12 07:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The only thing that will save this historic telescope is the intervention of local astronomy clubs or a museum (probably with media exposure). In my opinion it is an outrage that there is resistance to doing anything because of a silly notion that it "was always there" and using that argument as justification to allow it to rust away as a "monument". That is utter nonsense. The telescope when in use was sheltered. Now it is nothing more than a historic piece of scientific hardware ABANDONED to the elements. Such a piece of local history should be properly placed in a local museum irregardless of the asinine notion that rusting in a field is more desirable. It is a shame Sir Patrick Moore is no longer with us. I am sure he would have had a few choice "eloquent" words regarding this appalling situation.



while we are at it - should we straighten up the stones and repair stonehenge? after all that too is thought to be a primitive astronomical instrument.
there are in existence good examples of this type of telescope, so there isn't the excuse that it is the last remaining example of its kind.
the field is named for its presence, it is a memorial to a great scientist, if preserved it should be done in situ, whether to bring it back to a working telescope is debatable, the telescope was originally placed outdoors with removeable optics, so if restored should be left in it original location and retain its original useage, but to be honest its down to what the owners decide.
my feeling is that while restoration can sometimes be a good thing, but to destroy the character and original patina on an object can destroy that originality. after all we dont jet wash the stones at stonehenge do we.
Grendel


.
Actually Stonehedge and numerous other ancient monuments have already been extensively restored or "repaired". Many were saved from oblivion over the past 200 years in numerous archeological excavations and restorations


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5596793 - 12/30/12 07:29 PM

Or perhaps Greece could simply sell it to the highest bidder to help pay their debt

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roscoe
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5596891 - 12/30/12 08:26 PM


All this discussion is fine, and I for one have learned something about old scopes and British astronomers as a result, but it seems to me that, as the scope is old, but not ancient, that unless there are preservation rules placed on it by the local historical society, that it belongs to the property owners, same as great-grandfather's rusty old piece of farm equipment would, and if that be so the owners can let it rust, restore it, donate it to a museum, or sell it, as they choose.
Does anyone know if the scope's owners have been contacted about all this?
Russ


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dgreyson
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5596907 - 12/30/12 08:39 PM

Quote:

Or perhaps Greece could simply sell it to the highest bidder to help pay their debt




Naw, Lord Elgin already picked off all the good parts Terra.


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cn register 5
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Reged: 12/26/12

Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5599188 - 01/01/13 08:27 AM

A few years ago I made a pilgrimage to the Smithsonian to see the original Wright flyer.

It wasn't there, all I could see was a replica.

To my horror it wasn't a replica. It was the original that had been so over restored that any sense that this was the first aeroplane to fly, and had then been blown over in the gale, had been destroyed. There was no history or context left, just a perfect airframe that I doubt ever looked like that.

Far more evocative was a fragment of a wing tip of some other model that had been buried in the sand for about 50 years before being removed and placed in a case as is - peeling pale blue paint and sand included.

I'd rather this stayed in the field than have that sort of "restoration" done. We aren't so short of telescopes that we need to get this one working.

And while on the subject of restoration, look after those shuttles. No cleaning the dirt and burn marks off.

Chris


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tim53
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5599436 - 01/01/13 11:47 AM

A lot of how I feel about restoration or arresting decay depends on the object's rarity, historic significance and familiarity to most people, and how many functioning examples survive.

The Chino Air Museum is in the LA basin. For years, whenever I could make it to one of their air shows, it seemed that the only flying Zero in the world was away on a movie shoot. When I finally did get to see it fly, it was an amazing experience. What a beautiful airplane! As we're often told in the Model A Ford Club "they were built to be driven, so drive them!" The Chino Air Museum folks must believe similarly, as several of their planes are very rare or one-of-a kinds.

It's one thing to see pictures of Model Ts in books (historically most important car of the 20th century), but how many people today have even seen a Model T? And how many of those have ever ridden in one? And how many of those have driven one?

Sure, there are plenty of telescopes around today that are configured like the scope in Scotland. But the pictures I've seen of restored examples are stunning enough. Imagine what they look like up close, and imagine how goosebumpy it might be to observe with one!

-Tim.


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Startraffic
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: tim53]
      #5599736 - 01/01/13 02:31 PM

Tim,
Agreed, There is a group called the Collings Foundation (http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm) that has the last B-17G & B-25 bombers that FLY as a tour of the east coast. Beautiful to see and hear them. I actually was inside my house & heard the '17 fly over & told my wife what plane it was. She thought I was nuts, & made a bet it wasn't. When we walked outside & she saw it, she couldn't believe her eyes. I got my G11 out of that!
I also agree that this Scope & Mount should be restored with the property owners permission. If the property owner doesn't want or cannot restore it, then that is the property owners decision and should be respected. It is their property on their property.

Clear Dark Skies
Startraffic
39.138274 -77.168898


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terraclarke
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5600143 - 01/01/13 06:56 PM

Greyson; are you saying that they already lost their marbles


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mmclure
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found new [Re: Startraffic]
      #5600230 - 01/01/13 07:54 PM

Quote:

Tim,
Agreed, There is a group called the Collings Foundation (http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm) that has the last B-17G & B-25 bombers that FLY as a tour of the east coast.




The Arizona Wing of the Commemorative Air Force also has a flying B-17G and B-25J, by the way. And now, back to our regularly scheduled topic.


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