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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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dgreyson
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621570 - 01/13/13 08:18 PM Attachment (18 downloads)

Quote:

Are you saying all I am missing is the motor and of course the connector? I need to find an Astrola gravesite. If anyone has a motor I would certainly be happy to buy it off you.




There is a round cylindrical shield that keeps children and small dogs from jamming the worm gear, The motor, which just bolts on w four bolts, the motor to worm coupling, a 3 conductor wire that goes from the motor - is clipped to the RA shaft casing w semicircular clips and enters a hole in the back case of the clock drive on the side opposite of your photos. If the wire holder clips are gone those can still be had or easily made. Look on the side of the polar axis casing, you should see two clips or small two holes where they were. Perhaps plugged up. I suppose someone who had it before you couldnt get a replacement motor and just stripped it all off. Or maybe they ony used it visually and liked climbing up and down a step stool to go turn the slow mo knob. You may also be missing the motor mount, it has four bolt holes and is screwed onto the semicircular base plate. A photo of the business end of the worm with the knob removed would tell the tale.

Mind you, there seems to be great variations in design with Caves, All I know really is from working on my own Cave and what I remember seeing back in the day. Some of the more serious minded collectors can illustrate and discourse on what's needed far better than I surely.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621582 - 01/13/13 08:23 PM

Hopefully you aren't missing the motor mount bracket - that is probably a part that would be very hard to find but a copy could be made.

Cave used at least a couple different kinds of Motors - mainly Hurst for the early models and Bristol for the later years. I think Hurst Motors were also used for the larger models in the later years. The reversible Hurst motors required a single capacitor while the Bristol motors used a capacitor and resistor. The diagrams can be found online.

I think most of the Dec motors (either brand) were 1RPM, however a 2RPM or 1/2RPM makes a good substitute. I actually prefer the 2RPM because its slew speed, at least with the Tangent Arm Dec Controls seem to more closely match the speed of the Clock Drive running with a variable frequency control providing 40/60/80Hz. But, I have a different setup with a home-made dual axis frequency control box and one hand control so I can easily move in both axises if needed.

Overall, your scope looks to be in pretty good shape with only a minor amount of rust to deal with and it seems to have all the parts, except for the Dec Shaft Lock Knob, which really isn't needed if you have a slo-mo Dec Control. Maybe it was added on at some point. The Latitude Adjuster is definitely an addon, but a very functional thing to have.


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5621587 - 01/13/13 08:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Are you saying all I am missing is the motor and of course the connector? I need to find an Astrola gravesite. If anyone has a motor I would certainly be happy to buy it off you.




There is a round cylindrical shield that keeps children and small dogs from jamming the worm gear, The motor, which just bolts on w four bolts, the motor to worm coupling, a 3 conductor wire that goes from the motor - is clipped to the RA shaft casing w semicircular clips and enters a hole in the back case of the clock drive on the side opposite of your photos. If the wire holder clips are gone those can still be had or easily made. Look on the side of the polar axis casing, you should see two clips or small two holes where they were. Perhaps plugged up. I suppose someone who had it before you couldnt get a replacement motor and just stripped it all off. Or maybe they ony used it visually and liked climbing up and down a step stool to go turn the slow mo knob.




Unfortunately I do not have possession of the scope yet. It is in NY until April. I will revisit this once I get it and am able to examine it. I know one thing, I don't like climbing up and down a step stool to move the DEC axis!


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621604 - 01/13/13 08:31 PM

I knew I should have waited to start this thread. Now I know I'm going to have to get it before April.

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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5621624 - 01/13/13 08:38 PM

Quote:


I think most of the Dec motors (either brand) were 1RPM, however a 2RPM or 1/2RPM makes a good substitute. I actually prefer the 2RPM because its slew speed, at least with the Tangent Arm Dec Controls seem to more closely match the speed of the Clock Drive running with a variable frequency control providing 40/60/80Hz. But, I have a different setup with a home-made dual axis frequency control box and one hand control so I can easily move in both axises if needed.




So what your saying is that there is a replacement motor that I could purchase as a replacement for the original? Do you have a link or part number for them?

That was my only fear in purchasing this one. The DEC motor was missing and possibly the mount for it. In leu of finding a cave motor, a new motor would work for me. I want to keep it as close to original as possible, but I will give that up for functionality. It is important for me to also use this as intended.

Turk

Edited by turk123 (01/13/13 08:43 PM)


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dgreyson
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621638 - 01/13/13 08:44 PM

PM sent.

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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5621662 - 01/13/13 08:55 PM

Datapanic

That link is for a 1/3 RPM motor. Did you mean the 1 RPM or possible the 2 rpm. Looks like they have a variety of speeds. Looks like a good source.

I will contact them tomorrow to check availability.

Edited by turk123 (01/13/13 08:57 PM)


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621668 - 01/13/13 08:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I think most of the Dec motors (either brand) were 1RPM, however a 2RPM or 1/2RPM makes a good substitute. I actually prefer the 2RPM because its slew speed, at least with the Tangent Arm Dec Controls seem to more closely match the speed of the Clock Drive running with a variable frequency control providing 40/60/80Hz. But, I have a different setup with a home-made dual axis frequency control box and one hand control so I can easily move in both axises if needed.




So what your saying is that there is a replacement motor that I could purchase as a replacement for the original? Do you have a link or part number for them?

That was my only fear in purchasing this one. The DEC motor was missing and possibly the mount for it. In leu of finding a cave motor, a new motor would work for me. I want to keep it as close to original as possible, but I will give that up for functionality. It is important for me to also use this as intended.

Turk




I don't know what kind of motor was provided with the worm-driven Dec control. Hopefully someone will chime in about that.

Regardless of the motor brand, they are out there, just have to hunt one down. I found the Hurst motor I needed on a surplus site here: http://www.aptecelectronics.com/prod03.htm Until you know what motor is needed and the part number, it's going to be difficult to track one down


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5621684 - 01/13/13 09:05 PM

CN Thread about locating replacement motors for Cave scopes

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5621726 - 01/13/13 09:30 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

The motor is a Hurst Model CA series. The Hurst website shows that series as discontinued but maybe surplus is out there. I'm not sure of the speed.

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621730 - 01/13/13 09:31 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

It looks like you have the clutch assembly and original motor mounting plate (sandwiched between the OTA cradle and support bearing). We can't see it in the picture but hopefully that manual flex cable is attached to the original worm gear and mounting block. It is hard to tell how the previous owner attached the flex cable. But the end cap, round cover sleeve, round motor mount and triangular motor adpater might all be missing. A machinist might be able to make these.

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621738 - 01/13/13 09:33 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

My motor is connected to the worm by two toothed drive gears and joined by an internal toothed rubber sleeve. These might also be missing.

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621740 - 01/13/13 09:34 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

The rubber sleeve.

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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621770 - 01/13/13 09:48 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

Here is a new picture;

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621789 - 01/13/13 10:01 PM

Quote:

Here is a new picture;




OK, so the cable is attached to the same side of the worm where the motor would be coupled to, almost certainly with the original worm and block.


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5621793 - 01/13/13 10:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here is a new picture;




OK, so the cable is attached to the same side of the worm where the motor would be coupled to, almost certainly with the original worm and block.




I hope that is good?? I just sent an email to Paul in NY to see if he would contact the original owner for the rest of the parts. I haven't heard back yet. I doubt he would have them.

What else can I do? Manufacture the rest? That certainly is an option.


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621818 - 01/13/13 10:19 PM

Hopefully the original parts will be located!

April's too far from now - road trip!


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dgreyson
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5621915 - 01/13/13 11:24 PM


You are missing the motor mount. So Bad. But not fatal.

Local machine shops can easily make the motor mount for you, Crawford Machining specializes in custom telescope parts.
http://crawmach.com/custom_work

The best bet, is to find the original parts if they arent lost. worst case, A stepping motor could be used instead of the original. That would be somewhat cheaper but requires technical expertise in electronics or the use of programmable logic controller chips. It's always preferable to keep a collectable object as original as possible, but Telescopes are meant to be used, So using substitutes to get it in proper working order is not the end of the world.

On the other hand, if you have a gracious wife or a girlfriend with moderately low standards, I'm confident they would surely jump at the chance to crank the thing around for you while you stand on your stepladder looking into it. Tell them William Hershells wife Mary and his sister Caroline also, were both glad to help out when he needed them. How could ones gentler half refuse if you were to put the question to them in a polite and gracious manner?


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turk123
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5621945 - 01/13/13 11:54 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Thanks Dgreyson

I did find the flexible gear couplings. Here is the link:

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/Direct.asp?GroupID=1014


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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Introduction and my project new [Re: turk123]
      #5621983 - 01/14/13 12:29 AM

Stock Drive Products is first rate! I've found a lot of parts there for various restores many times.

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