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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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turk123
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/10

Loc: N.E. Ohio
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5637891 - 01/22/13 10:29 PM

Wow! Outstanding Dan. Perfectly balanced size for a large scope. You have too many scopes, want to sell it????

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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5638281 - 01/23/13 06:14 AM

Quote:

The 38" long fiberglass OTA sits on a Lightweight Deluxe mount with Clock Drive, 1" shafts and rotating rings. The scope is painted the grey and wrinkle black scheme. There are no Cave Labels on the OTA or mount and no signs that there every were any.




Beautiful scope. I still have the tube assembly for mine (sold the mount years ago, dumb, dumb me ) which measures 40" in length. I guess a slightly longer focal length. I also remember only a single counter weight. Good luck with yours.

Rich (RLTYS)


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Grava T
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Quebec, Canada
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5638426 - 01/23/13 08:50 AM

Nice telescope Dan. You should be able to get some nice widefield views with that baby.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Grava T]
      #5639805 - 01/23/13 11:53 PM

I talked with the owner of Composite Mirror Applications in Tucson and am setting up to have this mirror as well as my 8" f/7 and the Horsetrail Cave mirror stripped and recoated there next week. It costs a wee bit more but the turnaround is 1-2 weeks and there's no risk of damage from shipping.

It'll be kind of interesting to bring in these old school 40 year old mirrors to a high tech composite mirror/telescope making place. I'll bring a camera and try to get them to let me take a peak at the scopes they are making. Take a look at their website, it's pretty cool stuff!


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673221 - 02/10/13 10:40 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

It was bright and sunny today here in Tucson, a little cold, but I managed the 50 degree temps okay So, I commenced to take the scope apart and get the mirror ready to go for recoating at Composite Mirror Applications later this week.

Jon had mentioned earlier that the color scheme was unusual, and he was right, the mount used to be pewter and wrinkle black at one time and somebody painted over with a grey color.

As you can see, they did a mask-n-paint instead of taking all the mount apart and painting it. Surprisingly, they did not even remove the Dec Pointer, which would have been easy. Here you can see the original paint beneath the pointer. (I sure do like my Canon 3Ti)


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673228 - 02/10/13 10:43 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

More evidence on the RA Shaft Housing Flange. This part was a bear to remove - it was gouged up by the set screws and fit very tight in the Pier Cap. You can see the Pewter Paint on the edge of the flange and the obvious grey paint line ending above the center hole.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673233 - 02/10/13 10:47 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

The inside of the Pier Column also had some Pewter Paint over spray, and a little rust. Thankfully, none of the fasteners gave me a hard time due to too much corrosion - the legs came off quite easily. Other parts? More on that later!

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673244 - 02/10/13 10:51 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

This is the Dec Shaft Lock Knob. As you can see, the underside has its original Black Paint while the exposed sides are painted grey.

This part was difficult to remove because, in the past, the knob had been over tightened and the softer brass mushroomed out against the steel Dec Shaft. It would not easily unscrew from the drilled and tapped 1/2 or so set screw that it screws in to. But, with a little persuasion it eventually came out.

Now, this is supposedly a 1972 model. The threaded rod is all brass and 1/4" diameter. Later models are 3/8" steel with a bras tip. Hmmm.

Edited by Datapanic (02/10/13 11:13 PM)


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673249 - 02/10/13 10:55 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

I thought for sure that I would find Pewter Paint on the outside of the Clock Drive Housing Backplate, however when I pulled it off, I found the machinist blue stuff instead! It also seems that there is only one coat of grey paint and I didn't find any evidence of Pewter Paint on this piece anywhere.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673261 - 02/10/13 10:59 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

What really got me going on this Paint Scheme was the Rotating Rings. First, the adjusting set screws are 3/8-24 (fine thread). The newer models are 3/8-16 (coarse thread). Also, the outer edges of the outer rings are not as beveled as the later model rings.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673266 - 02/10/13 11:03 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

I thought for sure that on the inner side of the Outer Rotating Rings that I would find some Pewter Paint, judging by the rest of the paint job, but the paint there is grey! It gets kind of confusing because the tapped holes for the missing Guide Scope Rings go all the way through, which means when they were tapped, the rings had to have been removed in order for the tap to thread the holes all the way through. But, no Pewter Paint and, based on the Dirt Factor, no indication that the scope was every taken apart before - lots of metal filings were found.

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673273 - 02/10/13 11:11 PM

So to me, it doesn't make sense. If whoever painted over the Pewter Paint didn't take anything apart to paint it, why are the inside of the Rotating Rings grey? Surely if they didn't want to remove the single bolt holding the Dec Circle Pointer they would not have wanted to take the Rotating Rings apart!

I have a theory. Two part, actually.

First, this telescope was assembled on a Friday Afternoon.

Second, this telescope was built very near the time when Cave switched their color scheme from the Grey/Black to the Pewter/Black combinations. I think the OTA was originally grey and the Mount was originally (or mostly) pewter.

So the question that will never be answered, did the mount get painted at Cave to quickly get it out the door in matching colors or did the original owner receive it and paint it himself afterwards. This scope came from consignment from the original owner; I'll try and find out.

As it is now, the entire scope is all apart, ready for cleanup and painting. Not sure what color though! The mirror will be back from coating in a couple weeks. I need to inventory all the fasteners and order stainless versions for replacements. -- note that I always save the originals.

Edited by Datapanic (02/10/13 11:14 PM)


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dgreyson
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/06/12

Loc: South Carolina
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5673351 - 02/11/13 12:17 AM

When I stripped the paint on my 12" F4.5 cave the mount had originally been flat black it seemed, the rings were grey, dunno what the support color used to be.

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PiSigma
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/14/09

Loc: North Carolina
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5674791 - 02/11/13 08:57 PM

Hi Dan,

I don't know about the Friday afternoon thing but I agree about the second part of your theory. This scope was made right at the time Cave was switching from the all grey scheme to the pewter/black. There certainly could have been a few 'hybrid' paint schemes going out the door at this time. Who did the overpaint on the pewter parts? Good question. It will be interesting if you can find out anything from the original owner.

What is also unusual about the rotating rings is that your inner rings are black where on the grey scheme they are usually the same grey as the outers. All of my Caves have 3/8-24 thread on the adjusting screws except my '74 Model B, which is 3/8-16.

BTW, my '70 Lightweight Deluxe also has a 1/4" diameter threaded brass screw on the dec lock while my 1974 Model B Deluxe is 3/8". Perhaps the 1/4" is only on a Lightweight?


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: PiSigma]
      #5674837 - 02/11/13 09:32 PM

My 75 Lightweight Deluxe has a 3/8" Dec Lock...

I also think they stopped making the 4" Magnussen Setting Circles around that time.

I sent an email off to Frank at Stellar Visions to get in contact with the original owner and get the scoop on the paint job.


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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5676765 - 02/12/13 11:06 PM

Today I brought (avoid the word DROPPED) the mirror off at Composite Mirror Associates to be recoated. Originally, I was going to bring this mirror, my 75 8" f/7 and the Horsetrail Cave mirror all in for recoating at the same time, but fear moved in - all three of my Cave mirrors in for that work all at the same time!? No way! Bob Romeo, the CEO there told me that it would be about a week, I told him that's fine since I need to order new fasteners and repaint everything anyway. It was a cool place to visit, I'll post more here on the other Cloudy Nights Thread: The Future Today Part II: CF MIrrors

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5689470 - 02/19/13 06:47 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

And 1 week later - the mirror was ready! So I picked it up and got to see it on the their optical test bench, which was pretty cool!

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5689474 - 02/19/13 06:49 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

It has a good figure but not sure how to read the Wavefront data from the Imagine Optic Haso 3 program. Maybe someone here does?

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Datapanic
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5689481 - 02/19/13 06:54 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

The Ronchi Diagram showed a good figure as well.

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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: A 1972 Cave 8" f/4.5 RFT Lightweight Deluxe new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5691029 - 02/20/13 02:37 PM

Nice classic!

I'm not sure(which is to say, I don't recall) what motors Cave used on those mounts, but maybe you might find a suitable replacement here.

http://www.hansen-motor.com/ac-synchronous-motors.php?mm_campaign=e860a03aaeb...


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