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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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amicus sidera
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Classic telescope prices on the rise?
      #5721748 - 03/09/13 08:14 AM

Have noticed that asking prices for the classic instruments we all enjoy appear to be creeping up steadily over the last six months to a year or so. It's not so noticeable among those telescopes being sold for, say, $20 at a yard sale by unknowledgeable individuals, but as far as online sales are concerned it seems to be a definite trend, at least to me.

I've also noticed that there are folks who appear to sign up to CN simply to ask about the value of an instrument which has recently come into their possession. Nothing wrong with that, although in some cases it appears to be a "drive-by" of sorts, with the individual having little or no intention of contributing to the forum once their questions are answered.

Curious as to whether anyone else is noticing an overall increase in asking prices. Additionally, thoughts regarding any increase in prices being due, in part, to the utilization of this forum by potential sellers, either directly or via search engine results, to determine a value for a given instrument; in effect, using posts and comments on the forum as what amounts to a free "Price Guide to Classic Telescopes".

Fred


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5721776 - 03/09/13 08:36 AM

Yes, there seems to be price creep among our classic hobby! Although, there seems to be "hot" areas at any given time. The 4" Unitron for $6k with clock drive went quickly right here on CN. I'm thinking a year or 2 ago they would have done well to get $5k. The Meade RG prices have also about doubled in the last year. Not necessarily because they are excellent EPs, they have just become fashionably collectible all of a sudden . On the other hand, wonderful scopes like old Caves seem to be practically given away at times, and price drops are common.

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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5722089 - 03/09/13 11:19 AM

Absolutely we have noticed and stated so on several recent threads in this forum. See for instance the eBay thread that was locked earlier this week. Perhaps it should be policy that we don't state prices in the forum when such questions are asked by newbies such as those you speak of. Perhaps, just tell them to set an asking price based on what it's worth to them.

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johntrob
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5722524 - 03/09/13 03:51 PM

Good Idea

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tim53
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: johntrob]
      #5722553 - 03/09/13 04:12 PM

When new newbies ask me for prices, I try to be blunt and honest with them. Especially when it's about an old c 8 or 2080, because the owner often expects these to be a few percent less than a cpc or lx200.

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Sean Cunneen
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: tim53]
      #5722640 - 03/09/13 04:52 PM

Any scopes I own are an absolute bargain at $3000 and up. My eyepieces, $400-$500 minimum. An email from me is worth at least $5 as well. Whew, now I'm on record!

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #5722831 - 03/09/13 07:06 PM

change is constant in the world as are prices. As less of the vintage scopes become available because they are all in the hands of collectors the prices are going to increase as demand does because more people are now looking for them. I have seen the same happen to vintage audio gear. Look at vintage cars. What makes any of you think that you will be able to keep buying these vintage scopes at the same price as you did years ago.

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Bonco
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5722928 - 03/09/13 08:16 PM

Quote:

change is constant in the world as are prices. As less of the vintage scopes become available because they are all in the hands of collectors the prices are going to increase as demand does because more people are now looking for them. I have seen the same happen to vintage audio gear. Look at vintage cars. What makes any of you think that you will be able to keep buying these vintage scopes at the same price as you did years ago.




Referring to "Classics" which is hard to define, I'll say those are the quality scopes of our youth which were advertised in Sky and Telescope Magazine and later Astronomy Magazine. We lusted after the best but couldn't afford them. Now we are in our 50's and older, and have some cash to fulfill our dreams. The best of the best will hold value and appreciate to some point. However, in a few years the later generations will not have the nostalgic memories we have and the demand will decrease. Super expensive APO's will do well for years to come but improvements in technology and manufacturing will eventually decrease their desirablity as less expensive alternatives will be offered. Some may and will profit from buying and reselling classics but for me its just the joy of ownership and use. It's not an investment strategy for me.
Bill


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bonco]
      #5723008 - 03/09/13 09:14 PM

and well said. Look at what has happened to the baseball card market! This generation will have no clue what a Unitron is/was, except for what their parents and grandparents show them. Also, the computerized scopes of the 90s and early 2000s will probably have failed beyond reasonable repair - so the "new" classics may be a difficult thing to define.

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bremms
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5723549 - 03/10/13 09:25 AM

I was talking to a friend that indicated that many of these nice classic scopes are great decorative items. Both here and overseas. Explains the Unicorn prices but not a $700 RGO. So between well heeled collectors, high end decorators, speculation and shill bidders the enthusiast looses. Not a big deal for me, since I like to roll my own. Great for the ones here that have a collection. The day I can get $1000 for my sears 6339a it's going out the door.

Edited by bremms (03/10/13 09:27 AM)


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: bremms]
      #5723655 - 03/10/13 11:05 AM

We are collectors of finely engineered and manufactured telescopes. However, inside all of us is that little man that says sell, sell baby sell when the time is right.

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Da Bear
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: bremms]
      #5723678 - 03/10/13 11:15 AM

Inflation of the US dollar is rising darn fast and therefore we have a concomitant rise in asking prices as a result. The better question is, in 2005 dollars are classic scope prices rising?

I read a lot of astro ads --looking for deals--- and it seems fairly clear that the high end pre- owned modern classics -TAK, AP, TV are still depressed, but stable in 2005 dollars.

Middle tier -Celestron and Meade- prices are still falling slowly in 2005 dollars.

High end collectable Zeiss, Clarks and complete / restored Unitrons are increasing in value slowly, as they always have and always will.

Quality coins --not those with gold or silver - go up 2% to 3% every year in adjusted dollars -- a great long term haven. High end astro gear, in the long run, will follw suit.

There is also a demographic issue in collectable astro-gear and in amateur astronomy. We are an aging population that was excitied by the space race and moon landings during the 60"s. Now many of us have older eyes, sore backs and some are selling off their collections for health related reasons. And at the same time there are fewer younger folks collecting _- a very serious problem -, thus overall demand and inflation adjusted prices are stable at best or more than likely slowly falling.

Da Bear

Edited by Da Bear (03/10/13 11:24 AM)


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kansas skies
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5723864 - 03/10/13 12:57 PM

These are interesting observations. As mentioned above, supply and demand does tend to be the driving force behind prices.

The most finicky of collectors will accept only perfect, mint condition examples and the price at that level is astronomical (pun intended). This is the investment level and the item never comes out of storage. The next tier of collector level would be the person with fairly deep pockets that doesn't mind a fingerprint or two. That person might even set it up for display and possibly use it once in awhile. The above average collector falls next in line. This level of collector has a deep appreciation (along with maybe a little reverance) of the item and has every intention of putting it to repeated use as originally intended. This probably describes most of us. So it goes until you reach the basket-case level. This person is the one that buys something that bears a vague resemblence to the original item, but is probably best packaged in a waste bin. Of course, this is putty in the hands of a true craftsman.

As a collector, there's usually a level that allows most everyone to participate. A problem begins to develop when the demand is great and the higher levels begin to disappear. These levels are then filled price-wise by the level directly below. If this continues long enough, the bottom levels can reach unrealistically high values.

Is this bad or is this good? It all depends on where you sit. If you are in the market to buy, it is bad. If you are an owner that may or may not wish to sell, it is good.

As for answering the question of value to someone who asks - there is only one true indicator and that is compiled from recent market examples. If I own an item and someone were to ask what their example of that same item is worth, the value I state would more than likely be different than that given if I were in the market for that item. There's no reason for me not to answer, however. If I try to give a fair and honest answer, even if slightly jaded by my own perceptions, my answer still has merit. If enough people participate, the answer might then be derived from the collective.

As for the people who sign up simply to ask the question of what their item is worth. Why not? If they get the answer they're looking for, then this forum has served a useful purpose. Then again, maybe something will click and they'll stick around to answer the next question some newcomer to the forum desires to ask.

Bill


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5723871 - 03/10/13 01:01 PM

It all comes down to hitting someone's marginal propensity to consume.

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5724139 - 03/10/13 03:27 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

so

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Joe Cepleur
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5724757 - 03/10/13 09:03 PM

I admire those of you who so credibly tout how rational forces drive prices, but I season such reason with observations of the frenzied market of eBay. In a worldwide market, there are fewer good buys, because there are always plenty of bidders. Similarly, even a small collection of fools in a vast world may be plenty enough that someone will always overpay by traditional standards, driving prices upwards. This hurts folks like us, who are happy to pay fairly and want to use the scopes.

I had not known decorators were hoarding our scopes, but they and investors could well be the ones driving prices, the uneducated buying for others with no idea and no concern for how much they could save if they tried to be a little bit smart. Twenty-five years ago (Wow! I'm old enough to say that!), I saw the rotted out hulk of a wood-and-canvas canoe hanging in an antique store in New York City. It looked really, really cool among the fine furniture. It was priced at $1,200, which so boggled me that I have never forgotten. The same hulk in its native Maine would have sold to someone wanting to restore it for $100. Because of ignorant, passionate buyers, markets can be ignorant and irrational.


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5724843 - 03/10/13 10:28 PM

Yep. All I meant is by definition you will never get more than someone is willing to spend. Ergo if they buy it, you are at the price point that they are willing to purchase. If it is more than they want to spend, they won't buy it. Now, that doesn't mean the decision is rational!

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5724920 - 03/10/13 11:15 PM

Wow, starting to sound like there sure are a lot of opinions here. Maybe we just should vote on which one we like best

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kansas skies
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5724944 - 03/10/13 11:33 PM

As I said in my previous post, most of the posts that I read in this forum tend to reflect a somewhat healthy attitude of reverence toward classic scopes. These scopes will probably see some use, or they will move on to be replaced by another. This may or may not be true in all cases, but for the most part it's probably a safe assumption. It's also safe to assume that for every collectible item, there are high end collectors that squirrel away the most pristine examples. These mint condition examples are what demand exhorbitantly high prices. Their sad fate is that of being a commodity and nothing else. It really doesn't matter if they're an unusually good example or not, since they will never see use - they just have to remain pristine.

As for ebay, it's simply a resource. If you have an item to sell, you list it and the whole world knows. I don't know about any of you, but if I list an item, I would like to get the most money possible for that item. Of course, when I buy, I like to get the best deal possible. Educating yourself on the market is the key to any successful transaction. There will always be the insanely wild listings, and sometimes these people get lucky. For the most part, I really don't see these dreamers as a driving force in market trends. My philosophy is that if you see it once and you're uncomfortable with the condition or terms, move on. There are very few one of a kind items on ebay or any other internet auction site, especially when dealing with mass produced items.

Quite simply, the driving force behind the rising price on classic telescopes is simply the desire to own. If you want the prices to drop, stop buying. Just don't complain when your own personal collection takes a hit. Sad, but true.

Bill


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Napersky
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5729345 - 03/12/13 11:25 PM

Hey Steve glad you finally got your Unitron. I do beg to differ on the value. Several years ago a 160 with weight drive and home-made pier went for $8,000.

It has been 3 or 5 years since the last sale on either CN classifieds or Amart of a Unitron weight drive and the last one sold for $2,700. That all by itself.

That recent 160 for $6,000 was a great buy. Of course I am particularly biased as I do have a horse in this ring with my club's 160 as you know. I have been attempting to get the Secretary to list it at Auction now for over a year....such with volunteer positions!

Cheers,

Mark


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Napersky
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5729355 - 03/12/13 11:30 PM

Bill yes Supply and Demand. With a bad economy Demand can shrivel up overnight as people cannot afford such luxuries.

I can see the 4" 160 Unitrons going to a low of $4,000 when money is tight and people can't or don't want to buy. Conversely they can hit their high's again also.


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5729765 - 03/13/13 07:00 AM

Quote:

Hey Steve glad you finally got your Unitron. I do beg to differ on the value. Several years ago a 160 with weight drive and home-made pier went for $8,000.

It has been 3 or 5 years since the last sale on either CN classifieds or Amart of a Unitron weight drive and the last one sold for $2,700. That all by itself.

That recent 160 for $6,000 was a great buy. Of course I am particularly biased as I do have a horse in this ring with my club's 160 as you know. I have been attempting to get the Secretary to list it at Auction now for over a year....such with volunteer positions!

Cheers,

Mark




Thanks Mark. No worries on pricing, as there are so few examples of these you just never know! I do agree that the weight driven clock drive is pretty darn rare and hard to find. Two people who really want one can quickly get the price up there.


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strdst
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5738025 - 03/17/13 04:59 AM

Quote:

Absolutely we have noticed and stated so on several recent threads in this forum. See for instance the eBay thread that was locked earlier this week. Perhaps it should be policy that we don't state prices in the forum when such questions are asked by newbies such as those you speak of. Perhaps, just tell them to set an asking price based on what it's worth to them.




Perhaps we shouldn't speak to "newbies" with worth/price questions! Make it a policy not to? And then the hapless new owner of a Unitron 114 posts it on ebay for $700 and gets ridiculed to death here for being greedy... because according to "us" it is only worth $235? What do you want?


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5411070/page...


other keith


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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5738152 - 03/17/13 08:21 AM

If their first post is "I found this at a garage sale for next to nothing, how much can I get for it?" I tend to ignore them. They can list it on ebay and the market will set a price for them. On the other hand, the Unitron 145C I bought the "newbie" listed in classifieds with the pure intent of selling it - I don't see anything wrong with that. I called him, he said he got it from an uncle, I told him to keep it and he said he just wanted it to get used by astronomy folks and had no interest. I met him 75 miles away and purchased it, to my knowledge he has never been back to CN again. http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=58333&sor...

Edited by sgorton99 (03/17/13 08:23 AM)


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Ron500E
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5739910 - 03/18/13 12:32 AM

Quote:

Perhaps it should be policy that we don't state prices in the forum when such questions are asked by newbies such as those you speak of.




Terra:

I have to respectively disagree. I am new to the hobby and would like to find out what some things are worth. Not so much to "make a killing" but to avoid "over paying" equally important, not to waste someone's time for something that is out of budget or even to get "taken" by paying too much.
The knowledge base here is immense and I feel that most newbies would benefit from knowing approximate values.
As an example, I have a 57 356A Porsche that is for sale. I have seen prices for cars in similar condition anywhere from 40K to 140K. Imagine being new to the hobby and buying something for 80K only to find out that a similar car could have been had for 50K. That's one sure way to turn new people off from the hobby.
My car may be worth 20K to me but if everyone else is selling theirs for 50K I'd be a fool to let mine go for what it's worth to me.
And then it brings up the question, "when does one stop being a newbie?" I have collected stamps for decades but never joined a club, local or national until recently. So to many I am a newbie but yet my knowledge is, perhaps, equal to those who have been in clubs for 15 years.
Another potential issue is when it comes to restoring something. Using the car analogy again, it cost pretty much the same, in materials an labor, to paint a car. Let's say 10K. One would be foolish to spend that money on a 1972 MG Midget. On the other hand if one had a 32 Bugatti or 55 Ferrari that price would be well worth it.
As a newbie I just restored my 8" Edmunds, it was a cost no object restoration even though I planned to sell it. I could have easily put 2K into it, overkill of course and probably not worth it for the Edmund, but if it were a 6" Alvan Clark ... well, you get the idea.
Just my opinion nothing more.
Kind regards,
Ron


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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5739923 - 03/18/13 12:46 AM

But then you need to define the "newbie". To me, that's anyone who signed up here after 2010.

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strdst
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5739979 - 03/18/13 01:49 AM

So glad I slipped in in early 2008. I'm oldbie! Hmmm never really wanted to be an oldbie

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BigC
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5739983 - 03/18/13 01:53 AM

For my example I noted Meade 390 and 395 90mm refractors bringing $400-500 on ebay a couple years ago,which is the same price in$ those scopes sold for when new quite a few years ago BUT lately those models are selling slowly and under $200 !

The best face I can put on the "drive-buy" is he may have saved a classic from being sent to the landfill or recycling center;I just wish he didn't usually expect to strike it rich every time.

The person who buys scopes or any other unique or collectable solely with intention to turn a quick profit is not evil, but he is NOT an amateur (fill in name of avocation).


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: BigC]
      #5740214 - 03/18/13 08:22 AM

The discussion about acting as appraisers for newcomers rages because it is improperly defined. No one minds helping newcomers. The ire stems from aiding drivers-by. If someone has no intention of contributing to the forum, yet would happily seize information gained through years of study, that's deeply offensive. The notion that, without pricing, the scope would be trashed, is hypothetical, not real. Everyone knows about eBay. In pricing drivers-by, we are only relieving their anxiety; and, to the point of this thread, serving as an accidental cartel helping to keep prices artificially high.

I'll add that I myself am not expert in pricing, and have often benefitted from the kindness of those who are. I hate seeing friends get used.

Edited by Joe Cepleur (03/18/13 09:29 AM)


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bremms
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: BigC]
      #5740216 - 03/18/13 08:23 AM

Too bad I already have so many scopes. Those 390/395's give good images. They seem to be around $120-$150. That is a bargain in my opinion.

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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740307 - 03/18/13 09:27 AM

I am taking about people with a very few posts, usually less than five within a relatively few days, and the first thing out of their mouths is basically- "Hey, look what I found! What do you think it's worth?" These people are not hard to spot and they are obviously out for a fast buck. Perhaps we should have some sort of rule where a person has to be a member for a certain amount of time, maybe a month before posting, or whereby their first 30 posts are monitored? Just an idea, but I know that I am not the only one who is irked by this kind of opportunistic behavior. Lets just see how many additional posts our flea market buddy posts in this forum or any other now that he knows that there is interest in his scope and has a good idea of its worth, and now has a somewhat overpriced add placed in the classifieds. If you think that a few of us ran him off because of our comments to the like as we had his number, then IMO you are deluding yourself. This is just my opinion

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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5740309 - 03/18/13 09:29 AM



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Dave M
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5740382 - 03/18/13 10:12 AM

Maybe a 30 day 30 post rule needs to apply to the classics forum like it does to Shop n swap.
I know we all hate more rules and regulations ect but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.
I dont think any noobs that join, at least very very few are going to join CN with their main interest being classic scopes anyway. Shields are up incase the rocks start flying, Just my opinion..
And Yes, i understand this could be a inconvenience to a very few noobs, but as the Great Spock once said
" the need of the Many outweigh the need of the few "

Edited by Dave M (03/18/13 10:28 AM)


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Ron500E
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5740409 - 03/18/13 10:27 AM

Quote:

"Hey, look what I found! What do you think it's worth?" These people are not hard to spot and they are obviously out for a fast buck. If you think that a few of us ran him off because of our comments to the like as we had his number, then IMO you are deluding yourself. This is just my opinion




Terra:
I never suggested that he was run off because of a few posts but I do think some people may want to enter a new hobby knowing the costs before hand. Nor is it obvious to me that they are out for a fast buck, although I am sure some are. And if they are and they over price something they will have it at the end of the day. Or they just may be curious or happy at their good fortune. I saw a 76mm Sears (forgot the model number) at a local garage sale for $30. I had no idea what it was worth. I passed on it because, in my mind "it was only a Sears." Little did I know. Somewhere I heard about "Department Store telescopes" and how bad they were. There was no time to find this forum and read all the posts. I would have loved to have been able to ask the simple question, to people who have the knowledge, "what's it worth?" Maybe it would be a hundred, in which case I would have gotten a good deal, or maybe $10 in which case I would have bought an expensive paperweight.
Someone may find something at a garage sale and just want to flip it or they may decide that it's too expensive of a hobby or whatever. But I see nothing wrong with giving someone, a newbie or someone moving from reflectors to refractors, an idea as to what something is worth. I fail to see the harm in that?
I'm a newbie and wanted to buy some things for my Dynascope but I am prevented from posting in the S and S section. So I guess I have to wait, but someone may have the items I need and want to sell them so it is not serving them either.
Being a newbie if I didn't get to restore my Edmunds I'm not sure what I would post about. I did buy a Dynascope from a forum member here and on A Mart and would like a few things for it but now I must go to eBay instead of a forum member. That only serves the profiteers IMHO.
I don't think there's an answer, only opinions on this subject.
The "golden rule" (I say sarcastically) of every hobby I know is that "If I have it and want to sell it's worth a lot of money, If you have it and I want to buy it it's worth very little." No rant. Just my observations.
And yes, I do delude myself when it comes to my hobbies, you're right on that.
Kind Regards,

Ron


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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740461 - 03/18/13 11:01 AM

There haven't been that many newbie "how much is it worth" incidents to really make it a big deal. Just ignore them if you want, it's your choice.

I absolutely oppose any campaign to limit ALL NEWBIES privileges to post here just because of the actions of a small number of people. There's enough of that going on already on other issues outside this forum; we don't need our rights cut because of the actions of a very small group of people.

If there were some first post time limits, I probably would not have the Horsetrail Cave in my hands now and I probably would not even be here for that matter. Most newbies first posts are not questions about how much some find is worth so they can sell it. If you don't like those kinds of post, ignore them, or tell them to PM Hellen Waite.


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Happy-Idiot
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5740611 - 03/18/13 12:26 PM

Quote:



I don't know about any of you, but if I list an item, I would like to get the most money possible for that item. Of course, when I buy, I like to get the best deal possible. Educating yourself on the market is the key to any successful transaction. There will always be the insanely wild listings, and sometimes these people get lucky. For the most part, I really don't see these dreamers as a driving force in market trends. My philosophy is that if you see it once and you're uncomfortable with the condition or terms, move on.




Quote:

Quite simply, the driving force behind the rising price on classic telescopes is simply the desire to own. If you want the prices to drop, stop buying. Just don't complain when your own personal collection takes a hit. Sad, but true.

Bill




I agree with your post Bill.

If you purchase a telescope for a dollar and sell it for $400 that is your business. It is not a crime to post a Unitron 114 for $1000, the crime is the person that purchases it and is unhappy with the price he paid. If the person buying the scope isn't happy with the price then pass on it.

I watched scopes go for three times the amount I was willing to pay, it pained me to pass on them, but I did. Why should I be mad at the seller for asking that "outrageous price"? After all he got his price and someone was comfortable buying it at that price. It may sting for a bit but I can't be mad at either the buyer or seller. Sour grapes and vintage collecting don't mix well, we belong to a hobby that is expensive, you can't complain because somebody isn't selling a scope at the price you want.

I have donated some scopes that I had paid a nice penny for, I have sold items for a loss, and I have sold items for a profit. I feel good when I donate and I feel good when I make a few bucks to spend on another classic. I am not into classic collecting to make money, I dig holes for a living, that makes me money. And in my opinion if someone sells classics to put food on their table or just for some extra bucks, then I say God bless them. Awhile back there was a similar topic about a member that buys scopes and parts them out for a profit. I still have to laugh because some of the members that were firing on about him, were and still are his customers. He is part of the Classic telescope economy, he is a essential player AS ARE WE ALL!

Back on topic, it is simple supply and demand. You want, you buy, it sells! You don't want, you don't buy, it doesn't sell! Right now people want classic telescopes.


Pay the price you feel comfortable paying and pass on the prices or items you don't.


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: bremms]
      #5740616 - 03/18/13 12:27 PM

Well, MY 390 was $10 at Goodwill.But another 390 sold for $57 at shopgoodwillonline last week -shipping to me would have been $39 ! Kind of sorry I didn't bid again before heading off to work. But experience is usually only last-minute bids OR ridiculously high bids will win.



Liked it well enough to keep looking until found the 395 on c-list (for $100)which entailed spending fours hours driving to acquire a complete in original box 395!.

I find having both az-el and eq mounted scopes convenient.

eBay exists for those who want to auction their finds of unknown-to-them value.

Watch out for the "email me before biddng " scammers.


And a for passing up a scope with low asking price at yard sales or wherever,I would have bought as a cheap form of gambling ,certainly a better chance of winning than the lottery.

Those who come here only to "take" but not ever intending to contribute are likely no big loss if "run off".


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snork
sage
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Reged: 01/27/12

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5740634 - 03/18/13 12:36 PM

I first came to this forum to ask what a Dynascope was worth(think that was my first post), not because I wanted to sell one but because I was looking at buying one. I got some great advice and proudly own that scope today.
I don't think the guy with the 6345 really came here to find out what the scope was worth. He had done some research already because he is the one who stated what the scope was worth. I think he knew he had a good one and brought it here to drum up some interest for his sale.
Maybe the forum should feel flattered that a rare scope was brought here first. I am sure he got some pm's with offers.

Maybe a permanent "what's it worth" thread that people could ask that question in and members could decide for themselves if they want to help or not. Could give the collectors here a little more insight to what's available out there.


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740658 - 03/18/13 12:49 PM

Ron,

You know the WARNING against all "department store scopes" or the claim that no scope under $500 is usable , as made by some well-known authors and others is kind of elitist hyperbole,IN MY OPINION.

Many of those scopes ,if properly adjusted and used according to directions, will bring wonders of the sky to people of limited means(like myself)especially if bought cheaply secondhand.And ,oddly, the enclosed instruction booklets are usually much more realistic in what you will see despite the gorgeous color nebula pictures and claims of fantastic power on the outside of the box.For instance the much-maligned B&L 4000 instruction booklet recommends the use of 50x per ich or 200x maximum whilst some users seem upset if images go soft when trying 300x!And Tasco booklets say much the same.If one uses those scopes at the standard? 50x per inch maximum the images are good.


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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
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Reged: 04/06/06

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: snork]
      #5740660 - 03/18/13 12:50 PM

Quote:



Maybe a permanent "what's it worth" thread that people could ask that question in and members could decide for themselves if they want to help or not. Could give the collectors here a little more insight to what's available out there.


I agree collecting these scopes should be about sharing knowledge, why block people out. Filtering value and history on these scopes may shy away some sharks but think of all the great fish we are turning away. I am glad Snork got caught in our nets. Good point Snork

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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Dave M]
      #5740718 - 03/18/13 01:28 PM



I like your idea Dave.

Terra


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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5740732 - 03/18/13 01:35 PM

And the very best thing about this forum is that we can all share our opinions however diverse they are, and still be friends in the end.



Terra


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Happy-Idiot
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5740792 - 03/18/13 02:06 PM

I forgive you, no matter how wrong you may be.

Just kidding, I agree Terra,that is why CN's is so great, after all said and done we share a similar passion for classics, just in different ways.


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Masvingo
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5741276 - 03/18/13 05:53 PM

Quote:

There haven't been that many newbie "how much is it worth" incidents to really make it a big deal. Just ignore them if you want, it's your choice.

I absolutely oppose any campaign to limit ALL NEWBIES privileges to post here just because of the actions of a small number of people. There's enough of that going on already on other issues outside this forum; we don't need our rights cut because of the actions of a very small group of people.

If there were some first post time limits, I probably would not have the Horsetrail Cave in my hands now and I probably would not even be here for that matter. Most newbies first posts are not questions about how much some find is worth so they can sell it. If you don't like those kinds of post, ignore them, or tell them to PM Hellen Waite.




Well said, Dan. As a relative newbie myself I don't like the idea of any limit being imposed. There will always be newcomers whose only interest is to take advantage and try to make a quick buck but they usually reveal their colours pretty quickly (a very recent example demonstrates this) and I think it would be a shame that the majority suffer due to the actions of a few.

James


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kansas skies
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Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Dave M]
      #5741372 - 03/18/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

Maybe a 30 day 30 post rule needs to apply to the classics forum like it does to Shop n swap.




This rule has much merit for its intended purpose in the Swap and Shop section. However, I really fail to see how it could serve any useful purpose in this or any other forum. It ends up sounding a bit like snobbery...

Bill


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Dave M
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5741407 - 03/18/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe a 30 day 30 post rule needs to apply to the classics forum like it does to Shop n swap.




This rule has much merit for its intended purpose in the Swap and Shop section. However, I really fail to see how it could serve any useful purpose in this or any other forum. It ends up sounding a bit like snobbery...

Bill




Who cares how it "sounds" as long as it works.
Point is something needs done to stop people joining just to mine for pricing info, let them get it some place else.
Its just an idea anyway.

Edited by Dave M (03/18/13 06:51 PM)


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Ron500E
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Loc: Illinois, near the River Styx
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5741419 - 03/18/13 06:53 PM

Remember, the guy who bought has scope at a garage sale for $20 and is asking $300 may have gone to 50 garage sales without finding anything. Those "pickers' perform a valuable service in digging out stuff in their local and offering it nationally to enthusiasts. Most garage sale or Craigslist people don't want the hassle of shipping, it's cash and carry 99% of the time. So if someone finds something 3 States away and is willing to ship it to me I say more power to him and if he makes a profit, even a large one, well, he's got to eat too. I always have the option of saying "no" and waiting for someone to offer what I want closer to me. But who knows how long that will take. I think what they are selling is not just the scope but the time finding the scope and the knowledge of where to market it. That is a valuable service IMHO. I don't have the time or inclination to check every Craigslist in the world but if someone half way across the country finds something that I want, I will thank the Good Lord that he found something that I have been looking for and is willing to sell it to me. Of course I'd prefer that what I am looking for is within walking distance of my place but for some odd reason that never works out and it seems the larger and heavier the item the further it is from my zip code.
Kind Regards,

Ron


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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Dave M]
      #5741628 - 03/18/13 08:16 PM

As long as there are rules, there will always be those who try to circumvent those rules... Dropping hints in this forum (or any other forum) that you have something to sell is most likely an attempt to circumvent the swap and shop 30/30 rule. Maybe the solution to this might be to not allow newcomers access to PM's (except to moderators) until a grace period of 30 days have passed. That way, nobody would have to be excluded from joining in on the conversation.

Ron - I've been known to do a little picking myself. What you said here rings very true.

Bill


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tim53
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5741797 - 03/18/13 09:27 PM

Quote:

Awhile back there was a similar topic about a member that buys scopes and parts them out for a profit. I still have to laugh because some of the members that were firing on about him, were and still are his customers.




I'm one of the not some.

Quote:

He is part of the Classic telescope economy,




yes.
Quote:

he is a essential player




no

Quote:

AS ARE WE ALL!




Well, WE certainly are!

Quote:

Back on topic, it is simple supply and demand. You want, you buy, it sells! You don't want, you don't buy, it doesn't sell! Right now people want classic telescopes.




Yes, and I'm sure when more collectors want Cave and other fabulous old Newtonians, the prices for those will climb like for Japanese refractors now.

-Tim.


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Dave M
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5741808 - 03/18/13 09:31 PM

Bill, i honestly cant say what the best solution would be, but i think the discussion is a good thing.

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starman876
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Reged: 04/28/08

Loc: VA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Dave M]
      #5741835 - 03/18/13 09:44 PM

As far as parting scopes out, to date I have refrained from doing so because I have enough parts to not have to do that. However, I am sure as time passes that might change. I hate to do it, but there are times that I am very tempted. There are some items that I feel are so scarce that I really do not want to sell them. So I am wondering, is the parting out of classic scopes making complete scopes more valuable as more and more are parted out. Also, are the parts becoming more valuable because people are realizing where else am I going to get these parts. As we can all clearly see there are a few that are blessed with the financial ability to buy just about anything that crosses their path which I am sure also drives up prices.

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John Higbee
sage
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Virginia
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5742017 - 03/18/13 11:09 PM

James, Dan - couldn't agree more. I hope the current policy is retained.

Sometimes the newbie's question is actually "should I buy?" rather than "how much should I charge?" If there had been first post limits last summer when I joined, I wouldn't have been able to get Dan's good advice on a purchase I was considering. That advice helped me decide to buy my Cave 12.5" .

John


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Datapanic
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: John Higbee]
      #5742049 - 03/18/13 11:32 PM

A long time ago, and it's probably still around, was this communications systems called FidoNet. It only had two basic rules that were the basis of all other rules:

a. Thou shalt not excessively annoy others.
b. Thou shalt not be too easily annoyed.

Sometimes, they were combined into one golden rule:

Thou shalt not be excessively annoying nor thee be easily annoyed.

Later, someone made the suggestion that if you are easily annoyed, just press whatever key made the next message come up, subsequently ignoring that which would cause your obviously personal annoyance(s).

What's the point? None. That was back in the BBS days, but the rules still make sense today. Most BBS's were dedicated to the Free Exchange of Information, especially RBBS-PC, which I worked alot with for many years. I had a lot to do with that kind of communication back then and still believe that even though BBS's are mostly gone now, the internet users should still be allowed, within means, to raise their hand and post a question or comment for anything they want. Asking a question about the value of a classic scope on a classic scope forum is within reason to me. Where else would you go if you had no idea what a scope was worth and wanted to sell it? It comes with the territory! We say there's no such thing as a stupid question. Well, there are annoying questions for sure, but remember that the person asking it may have no idea. Instead of banning their ability to ask something you don't want to hear, either ignore them or just tell them flat out, without being rude, that you don't like those kinds of questions. But remember the other old saying about first impressions...


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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
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Reged: 04/06/06

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: John Higbee]
      #5742053 - 03/18/13 11:38 PM

Classic telescope prices on the rise?

Flood the market. All members dump your classics onto Evilbay for a buy it now price of $1. Unitrons for a dollar, we can make a difference..... So who goes first?


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5742060 - 03/18/13 11:45 PM



Wonder who would be waiting in line for the first fool to go for it.


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strdst
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Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5742235 - 03/19/13 03:10 AM

I propose a $500 retro active registration fee for everyone who registered to CN and has posted on the Classic Telescope Forum after IDK DataPanic in 2009 (Got yer back dude! ) This money could be kept in a fund and drawn upon when a member feels they had to pay too much for another classic scope for their "essential" collection because too much information was available on CN by members who were willing to speak and share freely to a noob poster with something to sell. "I should have gotten the Unitron for $600 but someone here suggested a price of $800! I humbly, or not, apply for a $200 grant to cover the difference between what I paid and what I wanted to pay"... No problem... Ka-ching! Sorry for the inconvience!

I also propose a sort of cuss box where if anyone speaks of prices paid for their scopes they must pay some nominal amount for tipping off the rest of the world, via internet, of price points. In the 6345 debacle Terra and Tim jumped in with what they paid for their NOT Sears 6345's. That would be a violation of the rules and incur a fine! I mean now the world knows that these 3" Sears and Mayflower scopes aren't $100 a pop scopes.. like I have been so fortunate to collect. This is going to cut into my collecting you know! I just hate that. I now had to pay $225 for one from a seller who saw that thread and somebody owes me the difference!. Might be you! KA-Ching!

When you start realizing that taking into inflation over the years these wonderful instruments are going for prices so far below new prices, often in new condition.. be grateful that you get to meet a few! I ask again WHAT DO YOU WANT? Awesome optics at great prices or a club that excludes people that you don't value until they have proved themselves (to you). Be grateful. If that is the club to be, I'm out, right now. Please let me know because I don't think/ feel the way you do, thank goodness.

I have spent 35 years in and around families and individuals that are truely elite. Real people, Politics and atheletes. Governors, Senators, Presidential hopefuls, world class runners, marathoners. The best in the field. I was there by luck not by intelligence or skill or strength, just dumb luck. When I'm told I am sending the wrong message via posts on CN I say really? just watch me! Something the elite that have actually earned the title have taught me, go with your gut. My gut tells me that we can choose to post or choose not to post when someone asks for advice, Case in point the current thread asking for value of an 8" criterion scope. First post ever DRIVE BY charge 'em a fee or shun them? Must wait 30 days? Ridiculus. Terra, take the classics forum and enjoy it. I'm giving my small part of it you. Enjoy! My expe rerience tells me you ain't running with the big dogs and never will.

And i was interested to see a few of you offered that the 6345 was overpriced. Based on what? The "last" price point was a basket case for $40 bought by a fantastic CNer in Fla. When John Siple was talking these up in 2010 they went for as high as $XXXX. After that hype they came back down to earth a bit. I bought mine on the way up but i wasn't sharing that with Leonard. Some of you that didn't have a clue were trying to. I bought mine in 2010 for $XXXX + $XXX Shipping. There I have revealed everything. If anyone here wants my Sears 6345 i'll be happy to sell it for $XXXX.XX

For my part i ain't sharing anything about prices except in P.M.s. Which if it helps a "not quite past a 30 day trial" or a "noob with just one post" I'm happy to help . There are a few wonderful posters here that are quite full of themselves. And a whole lot more that thank God, aren't. The most worthy of the title are doing better things than whining about how someone, like me, might be straight with a "driver by" sorry Joe, but that is what comes along in the keith kit.

Rant quite over. See you again sometime when you realize how smart you really never were, and how smart you could have been all along.


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herrointment
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Reged: 03/12/11

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5742261 - 03/19/13 03:33 AM

Interesting discussion.

Best of luck reaching a consensus.

Money changes everything.

JE


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Dave M
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5742311 - 03/19/13 05:44 AM

Quote:

I propose a $500 retro active registration fee for everyone who registered to CN and has posted on the Classic Telescope Forum after IDK DataPanic in 2009 (Got yer back dude! ) This money could be kept in a fund and drawn upon when a member feels they had to pay too much for another classic scope for their "essential" collection because too much information was available on CN by members who were willing to speak and share freely to a noob poster with something to sell. "I should have gotten the Unitron for $600 but someone here suggested a price of $800! I humbly, or not, apply for a $200 grant to cover the difference between what I paid and what I wanted to pay"... No problem... Ka-ching! Sorry for the inconvience!

I also propose a sort of cuss box where if anyone speaks of prices paid for their scopes they must pay some nominal amount for tipping off the rest of the world, via internet, of price points. In the 6345 debacle Terra and Tim jumped in with what they paid for their NOT Sears 6345's. That would be a violation of the rules and incur a fine! I mean now the world knows that these 3" Sears and Mayflower scopes aren't $100 a pop scopes.. like I have been so fortunate to collect. This is going to cut into my collecting you know! I just hate that. I now had to pay $225 for one from a seller who saw that thread and somebody owes me the difference!. Might be you! KA-Ching!

When you start realizing that taking into inflation over the years these wonderful instruments are going for prices so far below new prices, often in new condition.. be grateful that you get to meet a few! I ask again WHAT DO YOU WANT? Awesome optics at great prices or a club that excludes people that you don't value until they have proved themselves (to you). Be grateful. If that is the club to be, I'm out, right now. Please let me know because I don't think/ feel the way you do, thank goodness.

I have spent 35 years in and around families and individuals that are truely elite. Real people, Politics and atheletes. Governors, Senators, Presidential hopefuls, world class runners, marathoners. The best in the field. I was there by luck not by intelligence or skill or strength, just dumb luck. When I'm told I am sending the wrong message via posts on CN I say really? just watch me! Something the elite that have actually earned the title have taught me, go with your gut. My gut tells me that we can choose to post or choose not to post when someone asks for advice, Case in point the current thread asking for value of an 8" criterion scope. First post ever DRIVE BY charge 'em a fee or shun them? Must wait 30 days? Ridiculus. Terra, take the classics forum and enjoy it. I'm giving my small part of it you. Enjoy! My expe rerience tells me you ain't running with the big dogs and never will.

And i was interested to see a few of you offered that the 6345 was overpriced. Based on what? The "last" price point was a basket case for $40 bought by a fantastic CNer in Fla. When John Siple was talking these up in 2010 they went for as high as $XXXX. After that hype they came back down to earth a bit. I bought mine on the way up but i wasn't sharing that with Leonard. Some of you that didn't have a clue were trying to. I bought mine in 2010 for $XXXX + $XXX Shipping. There I have revealed everything. If anyone here wants my Sears 6345 i'll be happy to sell it for $XXXX.XX

For my part i ain't sharing anything about prices except in P.M.s. Which if it helps a "not quite past a 30 day trial" or a "noob with just one post" I'm happy to help . There are a few wonderful posters here that are quite full of themselves. And a whole lot more that thank God, aren't. The most worthy of the title are doing better things than whining about how someone, like me, might be straight with a "driver by" sorry Joe, but that is what comes along in the keith kit.

Rant quite over. See you again sometime when you realize how smart you really never were, and how smart you could have been all along.




Really!


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turk123
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5742449 - 03/19/13 08:49 AM

Quote:



What's the point? None. That was back in the BBS days, but the rules still make sense today. Most BBS's were dedicated to the Free Exchange of Information, especially RBBS-PC, which I worked alot with for many years. I had a lot to do with that kind of communication back then and still believe that even though BBS's are mostly gone now, the internet users should still be allowed, within means, to raise their hand and post a question or comment for anything they want. Asking a question about the value of a classic scope on a classic scope forum is within reason to me. Where else would you go if you had no idea what a scope was worth and wanted to sell it? It comes with the territory! We say there's no such thing as a stupid question. Well, there are annoying questions for sure, but remember that the person asking it may have no idea. Instead of banning their ability to ask something you don't want to hear, either ignore them or just tell them flat out, without being rude, that you don't like those kinds of questions. But remember the other old saying about first impressions...




I agree whole heartily with you. Up to several months ago I began posting here and I would consider myself a newbie. I don't think I posted any "price" questions, but I did ask follow up questions in PMs and emails to a few of you. Everyone was very nice and helped quite a bit. That is why this is such a great forum of ideas and info. I've belonged to a lot of forums and have to say, when the fights break out over restricting ideas, it no longer fits the name. A forum is a place for all of us to come together and share ideas regardless of our experience level. For a forum to survive, one needs to nurture new members and to welcome them. When we stop encouraging new participants, the forum will slowly stop functioning and disappear. So, thank to all that have helped me so far. I appreciate it very much and I will remember it the next time someone asks me "How much did you pay for that?"

Turk


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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: turk123]
      #5742569 - 03/19/13 10:18 AM

Just a point of clarification. When I used the term 'newbie' I used it in the strict sense that CN uses it officially. If you look in your name box to the left it will show the number of posts you have made. If you have made nay one, up to some very small number, say 10 or 20, it will say "newbie" under the name. When I made my original post on this matter, I was speaking in general of the type of poster that was engendered in one, particularly recent, controversial (look at the debate it inspired), and still questionable (look at what is going on with regard to the pricing of said item currently for sale. It was in this context:
Title: Newbie
No. Of posts: (1)
Paraphrase: "Hey, look what I found! What will you or some 'pidgeon' give me for it?"
E-mail: false
Behavior: IMHO most questionable to date.

This inspired a lot of negativity. I was irked by it, as we're a number of others. I am for my part, sorry for that.

My subsequent response was with regard to a possible solution, which I made after several PMs with other members. It was NOT phrased in should and would, but instead with "perhaps" and "in my opinion".

We are all entitled to our opinion, and we needn't get smug or nasty when criticizing others, no matter how "tongue in cheek" or veiled that is. What is wrong with just others saying also perhaps, or IMO, instead of smug remarks.

I think that even in a forum that is in general, as congenial and helpful as this one, when we are sitting in front of a screen instead of sitting face to face with a friend, it is easier to say things that others might consider hurtful and that we ourselves might later regret. Yes, I did this too in my initial response to a particular person; I regretted it and I deleted it. I gave out misleading information about the worth of said product, based on a weak consensus that some of us came to in an earlier thread on this topic.

When I first joined this forum, I remained a lurking member for four or five months without ever posting but always reading and absorbing. During that time, I never saw or read anything like several, I say several, not just one, threads that got downright nasty within the last two months. If I had, I might never have entered the forum as an active member. Yes, many of us have gotten cabin fever over the past months, this has been the worst 'astronomy' winter I can remember in recent years; I have gotten antsy with it and perhaps others have as well. Still, that is no excuse for rude behavior.

Perhaps, and I did say 'perhaps', read 'maybe', in MY opinion, we should consider lots of good potential members as being like I was, lurking, and sampling the waters before diving in.

Let's all (and I am including myself in this) maybe, try and be positive rather than negative, and helpful rather than hurtful, giving consideration to what we write before we push the send button.

My mom always tried to teach me, if you can't say something good about something or someone, then best not say anything at all. She also said never discuss religion or politics with friends. Perhaps we need to add money to that list because every one of these things recently has been about money in one way or another. LOL!

If we need to rant, then lets try and rant via a PM to a CN friend that might share our view or help us to change that view.

These are just my thoughts on the matter and I mean them in the best of intentions.

Peace and love to all of you. You are all my friends.



Terra


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tim53
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5742630 - 03/19/13 10:50 AM

Quote:

When I made my original post on this matter, I was speaking in general of the type of poster that was engendered in one, particularly recent, controversial (look at the debate it inspired), and still questionable (look at what is going on with regard to the pricing of said item currently for sale. It was in this context:
Title: Newbie
No. Of posts: (1)
Paraphrase: "Hey, look what I found! What will you or some 'pidgeon' give me for it?"
E-mail: false
Behavior: IMHO most questionable to date.

This inspired a lot of negativity. I was irked by it, as we're a number of others. I am for my part, sorry for that.




Actually, I don't think there's anything to be sorry for, here. You (and I and a few others) were suspicious that was what this newbie was up to. He assured us that he wasn't. But he was.

So, he essentially found a workaround to the 30 day rule and used CN as an auction site (or springboard to one).

Having said that, I don't think this is exactly a capitol crime.

The main thing *I* would apologize for in that case was that I thought it was just another 76mm scope he was talking $1100+ about.

As for divulging prices I pay for stuff? Doesn't bother me that much. I got a good deal on that Mayflower, though I wasn't so sure at the time. Selling prices went up considerably on those since then, perhaps in part to all of us talking about them on here. So, I don't think I'm likely to find one for that price again (but then I already have one, don't I?).

-Tim.


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strdst
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: tim53]
      #5742719 - 03/19/13 11:34 AM

Terra, I apologize for my taking this too far and making it personal.

Dave, no I don't really want to see any changes, any more rules

Tim, prices are something we all talk about here including
me.

Everyone else, sorry for the rant. I'm thinking it's a good time for me to take a break.

Other keith


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5742813 - 03/19/13 12:14 PM

what rant, darn, go on vacation and I miss everything

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tim53
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5742873 - 03/19/13 12:44 PM

No worries!!

I really don't think we're going to change the simple fact that prices will rise because of our interest and discussions about them here. I think that refractor prices inflate faster than reflector prices simply because most people have space for them. Most collectible reflectors require more SPUs than collectible refreactors simply because they're bigger, heavier, and harder to haul around.

Tim


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: tim53]
      #5743020 - 03/19/13 01:50 PM

Refractors are just a very classy looking scope compared to a klunky reflector. Is that what you are saying Tim?

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Ron500E
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5743180 - 03/19/13 03:06 PM

Quote:

Refractors are just a very classy looking scope compared to a klunky reflector. Is that what you are saying Tim?




Everyone knows that a proper telescope should have a large white tube and setting circles. None of this glorified magnifying glass stuff on some skinny piece of pipe or worse yet, those komputers thingies that zap the knowledge out of our brains, like the bugs in the movie "Starship Troopers," by going to a star or planet. If I wanted to go to a planet I'd call Carolyn Porco at Cassini Imaging or Alex Filippenko.

Ron


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AllanDystrup
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5743215 - 03/19/13 03:22 PM

Quote:

Let's all (and I am including myself in this) maybe, try and be positive rather than negative, and helpful rather than hurtful, giving consideration to what we write before we push the send button.
Terra




Agree.
Reminded me of The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali, 2nd century BCE :

1.33 maitri karuna mudita upekshanam sukha duhka
punya apunya vishayanam bhavanatah chitta prasadanam

In relationships, the mind becomes purified by cultivating
feelings of friendliness towards those who are happy,
compassion for those who are suffering,
goodwill towards those who are virtuous, and
indifference or neutrality towards those we perceive as wicked or evil.



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Bill Griffith
sage


Reged: 08/12/09

Loc: Ca.
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5743219 - 03/19/13 03:24 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

Time for a photo,

A klunky reflector


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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: AllanDystrup]
      #5743224 - 03/19/13 03:25 PM



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Bill Griffith
sage


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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5743274 - 03/19/13 03:41 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

A classy refractor.

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5743332 - 03/19/13 04:05 PM

Wow, what kind of forklift do you need to move the klunky reflector

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5743339 - 03/19/13 04:07 PM

Well, that refractor also needs a forklift

wait, that is the baby 75mm I thought it was the 102mm. You can carry that out set up.

Edited by starman876 (03/19/13 04:09 PM)


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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5743435 - 03/19/13 04:53 PM

Nothing like the classic beauty of a Unitron

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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5743470 - 03/19/13 05:05 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

and to round things off...............
a
Super
Classy
Telescope


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5743478 - 03/19/13 05:08 PM

I ALWAYS THOUGHT THE C STOOD FOR SOMETHING ELSE

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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 01/10/12

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5743483 - 03/19/13 05:12 PM





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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5743589 - 03/19/13 05:54 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Another kind of CAT:

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Bill Griffith
sage


Reged: 08/12/09

Loc: Ca.
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5743602 - 03/19/13 05:57 PM

James

Thanks for the registry

Is that a Hudson above the 55 Bel Aire?

Bill


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kansas skies
sage


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Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5743668 - 03/19/13 06:30 PM

Ok, now that things are back to normal - can anyone here tell me what my old telescope's worth???

Bill

(Sorry)...


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5743691 - 03/19/13 06:40 PM

Sure. what kind is it? Better yet, PM me so I can give you a fair price before any other vulture here gets a chance

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mikey cee
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: AllanDystrup]
      #5743715 - 03/19/13 06:48 PM

indifference or neutrality towards those we perceive as wicked or evil. We could then avoid all wars correct?

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5743725 - 03/19/13 06:50 PM



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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Bill Griffith]
      #5743827 - 03/19/13 07:26 PM

Thanks Bill, it's a good challenge trying to untangle Celestron's serial numbering methods!

The model is actually a 1950 Chrysler Town and Country, part of the Franklin Mint Cars of the Fifties collection.

James


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Masvingo
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5743830 - 03/19/13 07:29 PM

Lovely Dan. Looks like the twin of our latest arrival, Sophie, who is also jet black.

James


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Napersky
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5743906 - 03/19/13 08:11 PM

It looks like this forum is the place to troll for information after someone found a telescope and decided to put it up for sale!



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gelkin
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5743929 - 03/19/13 08:19 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

Quote:

Nothing like the classic beauty of a Unitron




Yes Mam !


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snork
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Reged: 01/27/12

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: gelkin]
      #5743943 - 03/19/13 08:31 PM

Very impressive Gerald!

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Happy-Idiot
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5743982 - 03/19/13 08:53 PM

Quote:

Ok, now that things are back to normal - can anyone here tell me what my old telescope's worth???

Bill

(Sorry)...




It's good to blow the carbon out of the engine once in awhile.


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5743992 - 03/19/13 08:59 PM

nice Gerald

I need to make room so I can do that. However, things are a bit crowded. I get asked to take pictures of what I got. That means I got to take it all out of the boxes and set it up. Then put it back away. One of these days when I have things neat and orderly I will do that. Right now if I take a pic I would be embarrased if you saw the mess.


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Dave M
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744002 - 03/19/13 09:04 PM

Quote:






plain buttered and cheese


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gelkin
Pooh-Bah
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Loc: Western, MD.
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744010 - 03/19/13 09:11 PM Attachment (5 downloads)

Thanks guys. When i divided off my basement i ended up with a space at the walk out level entrance left over. Lately it has been just what the Dr. ordered. My scope space. The door to the right was a slider but i recently changed it to a french. Easy out the door for observing. Except the 4".
Even those clumsey newts live there.


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: gelkin]
      #5744062 - 03/19/13 09:44 PM

clunky newts is the correct term Gerald

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744074 - 03/19/13 09:48 PM

And we all know what SCT really stands for

Super
Crappy
Telescope


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John Higbee
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Virginia
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744145 - 03/19/13 10:26 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Several more Clunky Reflectors... #1

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John Higbee
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Loc: Virginia
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: John Higbee]
      #5744150 - 03/19/13 10:30 PM Attachment (6 downloads)

and #2...(one of your favorites, Terra!)

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John Higbee
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Reged: 07/17/12

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: John Higbee]
      #5744158 - 03/19/13 10:33 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

...and an "anything but clunky" sunset at the dark sky site (with the faithful C8 ready for action)...

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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744166 - 03/19/13 10:36 PM

And we all know what SCT really stands for

Superior
Classic
Telescope


Bill


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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5744181 - 03/19/13 10:43 PM

Real Telescopes have wheels...

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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5744186 - 03/19/13 10:45 PM

Quote:

Terra, I apologize for my taking this too far and making it personal.

Dave, no I don't really want to see any changes, any more rules

Tim, prices are something we all talk about here including
me.

Everyone else, sorry for the rant. I'm thinking it's a good time for me to take a break.

Other keith




Don't do that!


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5744245 - 03/19/13 11:15 PM

This is a great forum with a great bunch of people with a great sense of humor. You guys are great.
Super
Great
People


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744247 - 03/19/13 11:16 PM

At risk of rocking the boat after things are apparently back to normal, and so with apologies and a willingness to be ignored, it has saddened me that the friction that exploded upon Leonard's visit with his Sears passed without a real understanding of what occurred. When people are truly outraged, hunt long enough, and the underlying issues will typically differ from those seemingly being argued. Upset over money? Maybe. Outraged? Look for a perceived lack of respect.

This forum exists for mutual aid and companionship in an unusual interest. This is the best source in the world for information about classic telescopes. Newcomers who want to extract prices from us only to pursue their own selfish greed are disrespectful of us. When a knowledgeable person quotes a price, that's valuable. It is, in itself, worth money. This means that, in receiving it free, the recipient must offer something in return. At the very least, that must include respect and gratitude. Those who fail that test are unworthy, and should be sent to the auction sites to test prices for themselves.

If a particular member does not see this dynamic, we could say we all have a right to our opinions, or we could say that it is equally upsetting to watch a member not see that a misguided philosophy of openness is prone to predatory abuse by the greedy. What begins with disrespect from an outsider (as opposed to respect from a grateful, contributing, welcome newcomer) then transforms into disrespect from an insider who says, essentially, "Drop dead, fellow member; it you won't take the bait, I will." That earns this forum a reputation for being an easy mark, where more of the same may be perpetrated in the future.

Never mind that the seller had to visit 600 yard sales to find the merchandise, or that he contributes to the community by bringing some estate piece from the dumpster and back into circulation. Every business deal has two components: the item being sold, and the manners of the seller. Unworthy sellers do not deserve a buyer's money. Those who insult us do not deserve our help. Better to walk from the sale. Better to keep this forum dignified and worthy of the public's esteem. Better to feel your friends will both welcome newcomers and quietly discipline hucksters. Servicing scheisters won't cut it.

The solution is imperfect, but simple. There will be mistakes. Forgive your fellow member's misjudgments. Certainly, any huckster might concoct a clever story to trick us into divulging information. Shame on those who do. How I wish everyone would adhere to this: When we have good reason to believe that a newcomer has fair reason to respectfully ask the value of a telescope, and may even be willing to contribute to this forum in the future, graciously quote a price. But, if we're being used, send the visitor to the auction sites. Protect the dignity of everyone's knowledge, and allow this valuable free service to be a complement to the worthy. Most new visitors will be worthy, so the forum will remain friendly and welcoming.

With thanks to the moderators for allowing this discussion, this thread asks whether the prices of classic telescopes are rising. This much is sure: No telescope is worth the price of stripping the dignity from the members of this forum, either by making fools of us by helping the unappreciative who would use us, or by starting a civil war of words while trying to protect ourselves from the abuse. Let the unworthy pass us by quietly for the auction sites. In a world filled with potential classic astronomers, egalitarians such as ourselves can easily find far better friends.


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Datapanic
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5744296 - 03/20/13 01:06 AM

snip snip snip...

Quote:

..This forum exists for mutual aid and companionship in an unusual topic. This is the best source in the world for information about classic telescopes. Newcomers who want to extract prices from us only to pursue their own selfish greed are disrespectful of us. When a knowledgeable person quotes a price, that's valuable. It is, in itself, worth money. This means that, in receiving it free, the recipient must offer something in return. At the very least, that must include respect and gratitude. Those who fail that test are unworthy, and should be sent to the auction sites to test prices for themselves....




Allow me to refute - this forum exists, and I quote, to be

Quote:

... The place to discuss older telescopes. Antiques, flea market finds, and scopes from grandpa's attic. From the 1780's to the 1980's - refractors, reflectors, and early SCT's. Fine classics like Clark and Zeiss to nostalgic favorites like Sears, Cave, Edmund, and Unitron are fair game. Discussing all aspects of restoring, collecting, and observing with older scopes.




Newcommers who want to know what the value is of a telescope they aquired are "greedy and disrespectful"? And they should give "respect and gratitude"? They're "unworthy"? Just astounding. Pushing values like that, although with merit, is not going to happen on this or any other public forum. It approaches politics, even.

Furthermore, from the quote above from the synopsis of this forum, "all aspects" includes discusing what a scope is worth. If the owners of Cloudy Nights wish to exclude such discussion from this and other forums, then so be it, but now, it is fair game. It is called "Telscope Reviews", afterall. Myself and countless others have contributed valuable information, for free, on this and the other forums of Cloudy Nights, PMs in Cloudy Nights and elsewhere with absolutely no expectation of any kind momentary gain, simply because we enjoy it. If anyone is so above that level to freely share any kind of information here, then keep it and go sit down - we don't need it anyway, especially if it comes with stipulations that require a reason to answer a ligitimate question.

I, for one am happy to share what I know and have learned throughout years of tinkering with scopes and do not expect anything in return for the information I share. I'm happy enough to know that I at least have or will help out someone with whatever they are doing and save them some grief from difficulties with a scope - be it a person buying or selling a scope or restoring one.

I could disclose what I paid for the many scopes I've aquired, overhauled or sold here in the Mecca of Telscopes Land (Tucson), base the value of something simiular to answer someone's request for an estimation of value, but I'm afraid if I did, I would really rock off the real greedy persons who are the ones here trying to control prices with no authenticity.

Get off the high horse! Enjoy the hobby and stop telling people how to think, behave and what to do!


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Ron500E
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5744460 - 03/20/13 03:57 AM

I am a car guy, let me give an example of "someone looking for only a price."
The brakes on one of my cars (500E) are somewhat useless for that model, but quite desirable for another model (190E) from the same company. There's pretty much no crossover of members from one forum to the other.
I decided to place a free ad in the 190 forum. I could not because of the 30 post minimum. I asked on the forum what they were worth ($325) and got the obligatory "only out for money speech" even though I felt that $275. was a fair price. I was basically told to go to the auction site. I did and sold them for %500 to a dealer.
Instead of these ending up in the hands of an enthusiast they went to someone who will further add a profit and resell them.
I had no idea what they were worth, I "guessed" at $325 and for a quick sale to an enthusiast decided upon $275. I didn't want to sell them for $50 nor did I want to put a price of $1000 and get ridiculed by those who were able to read my mind and intentions.
My newbie question met with all sorts of accusations, even though I have several thousand posts in the other forums. Some people truly do not know what something is worth and they ask for guidance, not to disrespect anyone but to price it fairly. They don't want to hear that someone "stole it at that good price." Nor do they want to keep something around that they have no interest in having.
Just my opinion. I would suggest that if someone sees a nice telescope at a bargain price on their local Craigslist that they offer market value instead. But for some reason, I doubt that anyone would do that.
Kind Regards,
Ron


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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: John Higbee]
      #5744468 - 03/20/13 04:09 AM

Beautiful sunst shot, John.



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Masvingo
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: gelkin]
      #5744471 - 03/20/13 04:10 AM

Wow, nice collection Gerald!



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Masvingo
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744479 - 03/20/13 04:18 AM

Johann, I'd check your keyboard, you seem to have an intermittent short between the 'L' and 'S' keys and the 'R' and 'P' keys.

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Joe Cepleur
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5744570 - 03/20/13 07:08 AM

Quote:

Newcommers who want to know what the value is of a telescope they aquired are "greedy and disrespectful"? And they should give "respect and gratitude"? They're "unworthy"? Just astounding.




Please read what I said prior to commenting, and do not attribute to me things I clearly did not say. I explicitly stated that it is fine to discuss prices with newcomers, yet is is also fine to withhold discussion from those few who are "greedy and disrespectful," who are reasonably assessed to take without giving.

Quote:

Get off the high horse! Enjoy the hobby and stop telling people how to think, behave and what to do!




Except, of course, that if people are offended by drive-bys, tell them they are obliged to suffer the indignity, or, more simply, that they should not feel as they do. At the end of this discussion, there remains a large contingent of silenced members who find drive-bys offensive, and who wish to treat others, and be treated by them, with what they believe are everyday good manners.

Realistically, it is evident that there will be no consensus on how to handle drive-bys, despite the consensus that we can often recognize them when they occur. Those who feel the forum would be better served not by mind-reading, but by restraint in those circumstances, and who are quite willing to ask a few questions of the seller to determine intent (however imperfectly), are effectively out-voted by those who are not similarly offended. The row appears to have been based not so much on how we are treated by drivers-by, but by the frustration with the internal disagreement.

Datapanic, wasn't it you who so perfectly restored the giant cave found trashed in a field California by a woman riding a horse? That is one of the great threads of all time. You might be surprised how often I think of it. Maybe it seems odd, but I see my willingness, any member's willingness, to cross those they admire on an issue offending many as a compliment to the importance of everyone on the forum. There would be nothing to say if there were no hope of being heard, even if no one member, or no large contingent, always succeeds in persuading the whole world. Thank you for the hearing, and thanks to everyone who, at various times, has helped me with pricing. If I have not yet returned the favor, it is only because I am still insufficiently expert!

Other than one last thought in a separate post below, I have nothing else to say on this topic.

Edited by Joe Cepleur (03/20/13 08:11 AM)


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5744583 - 03/20/13 07:22 AM

Quote:

I am a car guy, let me give an example of "someone looking for only a price."
The brakes on one of my cars (500E) are somewhat useless for that model, but quite desirable for another model (190E) from the same company. There's pretty much no crossover of members from one forum to the other.
I decided to place a free ad in the 190 forum. I could not because of the 30 post minimum. I asked on the forum what they were worth ($325) and got the obligatory "only out for money speech" even though I felt that $275. was a fair price. I was basically told to go to the auction site. I did and sold them for %500 to a dealer.
Instead of these ending up in the hands of an enthusiast they went to someone who will further add a profit and resell them.
I had no idea what they were worth, I "guessed" at $325 and for a quick sale to an enthusiast decided upon $275. I didn't want to sell them for $50 nor did I want to put a price of $1000 and get ridiculed by those who were able to read my mind and intentions.
My newbie question met with all sorts of accusations, even though I have several thousand posts in the other forums. Some people truly do not know what something is worth and they ask for guidance, not to disrespect anyone but to price it fairly. They don't want to hear that someone "stole it at that good price." Nor do they want to keep something around that they have no interest in having.
Just my opinion. I would suggest that if someone sees a nice telescope at a bargain price on their local Craigslist that they offer market value instead. But for some reason, I doubt that anyone would do that.
Kind Regards,
Ron




That is an excellent story for illustrating the dilemma. What would have happened if you had introduced yourself as a longstanding member of the 500E forum who wanted to get the brakes from a 190E into the hands of an enthusiast, and needed help setting a fair price?

For what it's worth, when I bought my Tasco 7te-5 off Craig's List, I told the seller it was worth far more than he was asking, but that what he was asking was what I could afford. I assured him that I wanted it for my own use, and would not resell it at a profit. He was happy with that. It had been his wife's grandfather's. Their motivation was to see it become as beloved again as it had been to the grandfather.


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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5744597 - 03/20/13 07:39 AM

I was taught many long years ago to treat others as you would like to be treated.

Suppose that ten percent of the new members come here with self serving intentions that we consider beneath our dignity. If we treat them no differently than the other ninety percent, then the needs of the greater good will have been served, and we need not feel compromised.

Bill


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5744748 - 03/20/13 09:39 AM

one of the problems we all have with these classic telescopes is that we fall in love with them and therefore find it hard to part with them. I know that I have fallen in love with certain Unitron products that I now cherish. The shelf light that goes in the 4" mount, the super Unihex and the 60mm eyepiece. those beautiful 4" equatorial mounts, and that elusive mechanical clock drive. I am sure we all have our favorite classic part that we desire. some of us are willing to pay just about anything to obtain some of these cherished parts which, we saw on ebay recently where a 4" unibalance went for over $600. I know I went and hugged the ones I have after I saw that I am sure that as time passes we will see more of this as we all finally say, darn, I want that and I have to have it and will pay just about anything to get this wanting feeling satisfied. Which, is what is happening.

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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744758 - 03/20/13 09:46 AM

To All, this thread continues to go off topic in 20 different directions and not always friendly. Lets have more respect for each other and keep the discussion friendly or I'll lock this thread, as I feel this thread is getting out of control.

Rich (RLTYS)


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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744767 - 03/20/13 09:52 AM

Women shop, men buy

However this is one woman who is content to not have the last word on this topic and I am content with my last comment and for me, am happy to leave it at that and not continue the debate.

High horse or low horse, ultimately its all about astronomy and what an enjoyable hobby it is.

As for things, I'm getting pretty content with my collection as it stands


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5744769 - 03/20/13 09:53 AM



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BigC
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744858 - 03/20/13 10:53 AM

By the way, a Sears 6345 ,that may or may not be the one that ignited this discussion,is now offered on the ebay with a starting price of $1200.

I have learned one thing here: unless I get lucky at an auction or yard sale myself,no 6345 is likely to find a home here.The more modern,less collectible, but functional Meade 395 will have to hold "place of pride" in the 90mm refractor class here.But who knows? On the other hand by acquiring knowledge from extensive reading at multiple sites and library books(not saving time by just bluntly demanding others price my haves or wants)I have been able to recognize and buy several scopes (and other items) at bargain prices.But I also seldom buy for resale,preferring items that appeal to me personally.

It is still a bit much to expect a potential buyer to inform the seller who is unwilling to do his research,of the current market value of any item.


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AllanDystrup
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5744878 - 03/20/13 11:05 AM Attachment (3 downloads)

Quote:

one of the problems we all have with these classic telescopes is that we fall in love with them...




amen


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: AllanDystrup]
      #5745020 - 03/20/13 12:17 PM

And therefore they become priceless, well, at least we seem to think so after we restore them to their former glory. If you think how much time some of use spend restoring a telescope we retrieve from the local dump or field, or someones back yard sitting abandoned and then take that gem in the rough and bring it back to life. Howe can you put a price on that? And usually, right after you are done here comes one up for sale in mint condition for a fraction of the cost you have invested in the scope you just restored and someone scoopes it up and takes pictures of it and shows it here in this forum. All you can do is watch

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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5745075 - 03/20/13 12:46 PM

They will only get my classic telescopes when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers...

Bill


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Dave M
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5745125 - 03/20/13 01:17 PM

Quote:

Women shop, men buy






But they shop till they drop , us guys know what we want, buy it then get the heck out of Dodge..


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Dave M]
      #5745136 - 03/20/13 01:23 PM

I shopped till I dropped buying classic scopes. Actually I shopped until I ran out of room and then I still bought more. I cannot stop

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terraclarke
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5745215 - 03/20/13 02:01 PM

"And therefore they become priceless, well, at least we seem to think so after we restore them to their former glory. If you think how much time some of use spend restoring a telescope we retrieve from the local dump or field, or someones back yard sitting abandoned and then take that gem in the rough and bring it back to life. Howe can you put a price on that? And usually, right after you are done here comes one up for sale in mint condition for a fraction of the cost you have invested in the scope you just restored and someone scoopes it up and takes pictures of it and shows it here in this forum. All you can do is watch."- JG



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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 01/10/12

Loc: Ayrshire, Scotland
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5745545 - 03/20/13 04:23 PM

Johann, you need UA...........

Unitronics Anonymous


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Masvingo]
      #5745566 - 03/20/13 04:32 PM

wow, how many people belong there?

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Masvingo
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5745577 - 03/20/13 04:36 PM

I'm guessing a fair few from this forum!

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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
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Reged: 04/06/06

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5746063 - 03/20/13 07:53 PM

Quote:

Enjoy the hobby and stop telling people how to think, behave and what to do!




Quote:

Except, of course, that if people are offended by drive-bys, tell them they are obliged to suffer the indignity, or, more simply, that they should not feel as they do. At the end of this discussion, there remains a large contingent of silenced members who find drive-bys offensive, and who wish to treat others, and be treated by them, with what they believe are everyday good manners.


At the bottom of members profile page there is an ignore user highlight if someone is offended they could use it. Or choose not to view the post. Language, images, innuendos, are the standard for offensive but not all find drivebys offensive. If Astronomics decides drivebys are offensive then so be it, it is their site and I am a guest whether I I disagree or not. But I have a hard time accepting the few that think the tail can wag the dog.

You Guys and Gals are good people none the less. I know the picture break was off topic but it goes to show we can all still get a chuckle after a small debate. See what you started Fred(Amicus)! Now there will have to be two classic forums, Union Classics and Confederate Classics.

I like Vanilla ice cream so all you Chocolate lovers can get brain freeze for all I care.


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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Happy-Idiot]
      #5746420 - 03/20/13 10:10 PM

Quote:

I like Vanilla ice cream so all you Chocolate lovers can get brain freeze for all I care.




I personally prefer strawberry ice cream, but I really don't care for any of the accessories - nuts, whipped cream, cherries, etc...

Let me guess - I'm off topic again...

Bill


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5746450 - 03/20/13 10:18 PM



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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5746451 - 03/20/13 10:19 PM

I tried to get this back on topic, but I see I failed

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5746459 - 03/20/13 10:21 PM

so how many of you feel your classic scopes have increaed in value?

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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5746565 - 03/20/13 11:08 PM

Quote:

I tried to get this back on topic, but I see I failed




So, what was it that we were discussing???


Quote:

so how many of you feel your classic scopes have increaed in value?




I probably paid way too much for that to ever happen...

Bill


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5746616 - 03/20/13 11:36 PM

EBay is a punishing marketplace for classic C8 prices. Scopes get listed high, don't sell, and are relisted lower and lower until they find buyers. Prices are not rising. Astrophotographers want the latest C8s, so the older ones remain good values for visual astronomers. 

The Towa 60mm Jason 313 is still a bargain. The chinsy 1970s department store aesthetics hide optics and mechanicals made to much higher standards. Buy one if you can. I still see them complete with mount for $50 to $150. 


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hottr6
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5747487 - 03/21/13 12:21 PM

I haven't read this thread, so it may already have been stated, but I have found that the cost of shipping has risen dramatically. Shipping large boxes has really added to the price tag. So the price of classic gear may not have risen, but with increased shipping costs, it may appear as though prices have risen.

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highertheflyer
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Reged: 07/08/05

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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5747787 - 03/21/13 02:56 PM

I too believe the cost of shipping a large part of moving a classic telescope following a sale.
I have a friend that traveled from Texas to Ohio to pick up an LX200 10 inch and yes, the cost of gasoline at over 3.50 USD per gallon was a factor.
But if I were a buyer, I would travel to the prospective purchase, up close and personal, with at least operation and star testing too boot.
For me, I have a Unitron 510, a 5"/F16 photo equatorial with field tripod and 120ac drive that could be for sale if the sale would be based on an individuals inspection with local pick up here in Fort Worth Texas.
I was hoping to take the scope to NEAF 2012, but found the total price, even for just the gas, would have been 600 USD to and from and not considering the four nights stay to and from.
So as an old retired pilot, I remember the days of having to fly to places at my own expense for reviewing the aircraft and logbooks to determine if the airplane was a good buy. Those transportation costs ate up a lot of money, but was a necessary part of the satisfaction for the seller and the buyer.
So too, does the transportation costs play a factor with these telescopes and gosh, simply a part of the costs.

Jim


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5747935 - 03/21/13 04:09 PM

Personnaly I do not care about shipping costs if I want the scope. I feel that is part of doing business just like paying taxes. Scope prices are rising because people are willing to pay higher prices for what they always wanted and now can afford it. You all must remember the economy follows the baby boomers. As they get older and more prosperous they start buying the things they always wanted when they were young. Harleys, muscle cars, and vitage scopes they always had their eye on, but could not afford when they were younger. If you follow the market you will see that is so true. I was lucky when I was younger. I had money and bought those cars everyone wanted. Bought the great stereo gear no one else could afford. However, even though I could afford the scopes and liked astronomy I was too busy having fun to play with telescopes. Now I am making up for that because I found I love optics that much and now buy everything I can get my hands on. Next is one of those TMB 800/100.

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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5748077 - 03/21/13 05:20 PM

Quote:

Now I am making up for that because I found I love optics that much and now buy everything I can get my hands on. Next is one of those TMB 800/100.




Great


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kansas skies
sage


Reged: 12/02/12

Loc: Kansas, USA
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5748126 - 03/21/13 05:37 PM

What I can never figure out is the seller that refuses to ship. I can understand the reluctance to ship out of country, but otherwise, it's just part of doing business. I think some people worry about negative feedback that might result from the high cost of shipping, but if everything is spelled out up front, there should be no problems.

Bill


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5748139 - 03/21/13 05:42 PM

I knew you would like that statement

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: kansas skies]
      #5748141 - 03/21/13 05:43 PM

I have found if you talk to the seller and make arrangements for shipping a good portion of the time they will ship.

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sgorton99
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5748176 - 03/21/13 06:00 PM

Quote:

I knew you would like that statement




I think someday we will see Johann on one of those hoarder shows .


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Joe Cepleur
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5748242 - 03/21/13 06:31 PM

I shipped an orange tube C8 with its base and fork from the East Coast to Larry Beach in Iowa for refurbishing. United States Postal Service Parcel Post took several weeks, but even with the overages for size and weight and insurance, the cost was modest, a quarter or a third of the shipping companies. If you have the time, the cost of shipping is not an issue.

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hottr6
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5748249 - 03/21/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

Personnaly I do not care about shipping costs if I want the scope........Next is one of those TMB 800/100.



I may have a TMB 800/100 for sale.... you can have it for $100.

Shipping will be $5,000.


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terraclarke
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Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: starman876]
      #5748272 - 03/21/13 06:45 PM

Perhaps they need to be informed about triangles

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: sgorton99]
      #5748331 - 03/21/13 07:15 PM

that is a scary statement to make. Sometimes I think you might be right. I may need profesional help soon. Let me talk to my investment guy

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5748337 - 03/21/13 07:17 PM

That is a bit overpriced. THe going rate is around $2000 which in my opinion is a steal in todays market. So see, not everything is going up in price. Some good things remain steady.

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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5748340 - 03/21/13 07:18 PM

shhhhhh Terra
do not give out shipping secrets.


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highertheflyer
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: hottr6]
      #5748347 - 03/21/13 07:22 PM

Yet, dealing with large expensive items of a thousand to tens of thousands of dollars, equipment needing up close inspections is essential, and shipping costs may not be much of the formula.
For a buy, up close and personal understandings, will be the final means.
Fly a long ways, inspect/buy/exchange monies, then rent a vehicle or pack and provide the safe transport for securing that sought after purchase.
When the price is high, shipping costs are not really the issue.
My two cents,
Jim


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starman876
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Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5748355 - 03/21/13 07:25 PM



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