robinsondd
super member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: St. Mary's City, MD
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Hi all,
My first posting on CN regarding my observing sessions. My friend Andreas and I were out January 1st and had great views of the HH. The transparency was about 5/5 which was incredible. I could easily make it out with his Televue 55 plossl, H beta filter, and my 25" scope. It was upside down with the nose pointing to the right. To me the 55 plossl was a better view than with my 35 Panoptic which is currently my lowest power EP. I did not look but Andreas said he could pick it out in his Celestron 11" CPC with the 55 plossl and H beta filter. To be honest most of my views of HH before last night were the "I think I sorta kinda see it" views. Last night there was no doubt. I surprised myself with my own comments. I said stuff I usually hear other folks saying when they look through my 25".
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David Robinson
Southern Maryland
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Andreas
member
Reged: 11/22/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland
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I was with David that night. It was awesome to see it as sharply defined as we did. In my 11" the nebulosity was bright and Horsehead was a distinctive black shape in the nebulosity. In David's 25" the view was stunning. The shape was extremely well defined against the very bright nebulosity. Using the H-beta we also got a good view of the California Nebula as well.
Andreas
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DSOs Observed
NGCs 1237, ICs 60, Other DSOs 62, Palomar GCs 5, Abell PNs 11
CPC 1100
Nexstar 8
Celestron 15x70 Skymasters
55mm TV Plossl, 35mm Panoptic
20mm Type 2, 16mm Type 5
11mm Type 6, 7mm Type 6
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Bill Weir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 892
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
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Congratulations David. It is amazing what aperture can do isn't it? When an object that is usually described as marginal looks like the profile of a Chess Piece. I think now your scope has paid for itself hasn't it?
Now go out there and dig deeper. That was an easy one.
Bill
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6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar II ED Doublet
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want
Observing sessions grand total for 2007, 171.
So far in 2008, 115
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Downward Bound
Adrenaline Junkie
Reged: 03/29/06
Posts: 2135
Loc: Seattle
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Congratulations guys!!!! 
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Bill
'flector: Vixen R200SS, Webster 22" f/3.6 (on order)
'fractors: TV-85, NP-127, PST-2X
Orion 15x63, Minox 10x52 HG, GO 22x85 HD
Sphinx, Telepod, EZ Touch, G-11 (waiting)
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Rob S
sage
Reged: 03/16/07
Posts: 410
Loc: NZ
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Nice work guys.
Rob.
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8" f5 Dob with Feathertouch
Brandon: 16
Pentax: 7, 10 & 20XW
TMB: 30 Paragon
TV: 8 & 13 Ethos;
5 & 13 NaglerT6;
24 Panoptic;
Leica Trinovid 8x50 BN
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novbabies
Postmaster
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 15678
Loc: Northern Georgia!
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!!
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Good Seeing!
Mark
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
VERY old Edmund 6" f/8 reflector
Assorted binoculars
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robinsondd
super member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: St. Mary's City, MD
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Bill,
Yeah, I guess I should have titled my piece, "I finally bought my view of the Horsehead! 
For me the telescope is definately worth the price. No more feint fuzzies...
One perspective to consider is how much money folks spend on their hobbies too, especially the yachting and fishing crowd around the Chesapeake Bay area.
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David Robinson
Southern Maryland
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OldDeadOne
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/09/06
Posts: 1083
Loc: West Virginia
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Makes me wanna chuck my 10" classic and go for the big guns :P Horsehead is one of the objects I want to see and everytime someone sees it I get jealous,no matter,as I know I'll see it before long.Congratulations!
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Bert O'Dell
PROUD GOTO USER
LX200 10" Classic
various meade plossi's eyepieces
Konig MX70 40mm" eyepiece
11mm T6
7mm T1
Insane under a full moon
I duck from Iron Skillets
Charleston WV clearsky
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2096
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Congratulations David. It is amazing what aperture can do isn't it?
Yeah, but in the case of the Horsehead, the key is the H-Beta filter, not aperture.
Even more dramatically true of the California Nebula, which is a challenge through any scope unfiltered, and is visible naked-eye with H-Beta filters.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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robinsondd
super member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: St. Mary's City, MD
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Quote:
Quote:
Congratulations David. It is amazing what aperture can do isn't it?
Yeah, but in the case of the Horsehead, the key is the H-Beta filter, not aperture.
Even more dramatically true of the California Nebula, which is a challenge through any scope unfiltered, and is visible naked-eye with H-Beta filters.
Very True... My buddy sees HH with his 11" SCT using the H-beta filter. He also told me that the HH has been seen with 15x80 binos outfitted with the H-beta filter. I have to admit though, it was larger than expected in my scope. Like Bill mentioned previously, it did look like a chess piece.
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David Robinson
Southern Maryland
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Andreas
member
Reged: 11/22/05
Posts: 90
Loc: Chesapeake Beach, Maryland
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Quote:
Quote:
Congratulations David. It is amazing what aperture can do isn't it?
Yeah, but in the case of the Horsehead, the key is the H-Beta filter, not aperture.
Even more dramatically true of the California Nebula, which is a challenge through any scope unfiltered, and is visible naked-eye with H-Beta filters.
Usually when I get together with David in addition to my 11" sct I bring my 8" lightbridge. With the 55mm Plossl I can see over 4 degrees of the sky. I wish I had it that night for viewing the California.
Your right that the key to both the California and the Horsehead is an H-beta. With the HH though aperature does help quite a bit to. I have seen part of the HH with a 4.5". In an 8" I could see much more of it. With my 11" it was well defined. With David's the 25" it was amazing with a wonderful outline.
Andreas
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DSOs Observed
NGCs 1237, ICs 60, Other DSOs 62, Palomar GCs 5, Abell PNs 11
CPC 1100
Nexstar 8
Celestron 15x70 Skymasters
55mm TV Plossl, 35mm Panoptic
20mm Type 2, 16mm Type 5
11mm Type 6, 7mm Type 6
Edited by Andreas (01/06/08 08:03 AM)
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Nick Lloyd
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 1641
Loc: cincinnati
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If you haven't seen David Knisely's List of 19 Objects for the H-Beta Filter, you should...
http://tinyurl.com/ysdo9o
Enjoy.
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"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6778
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Well, it is up to 20 (and more will undoubtedly be added to the list)
USEFUL TARGETS FOR THE H-BETA FILTER
While the H-Beta is probably one of the less-used nebula filters, the commonly expressed idea that it works only on a handful of objects is not true. Here is a list of the more prominent objects that the H-Beta may be at least somewhat useful on. Some may require larger apertures, but a few have been seen from a dark sky site by just holding the filter up to the unaided eye and looking at the sky. Some of these will also be helped by a narrow-band filter like the Lumicon UHC.
1. IC 434 (HORSEHEAD NEBULA)
2. NGC 1499 (CALIFORNIA NEBULA, naked eye and RFT)
3. M43 (part of the Great Orion Nebula)
4. IC 5146 (COCOON NEBULA in Cygnus)
5. M20 (TRIFID NEBULA, main section)
6. NGC 2327 (diffuse nebula in Monoceros)
7. IC 405 (the FLAMING STAR NEBULA in Auriga)
8. IC 417 (diffuse Nebula in Auriga)
9. IC 1283 (diffuse Nebula in Sagittarius)
10. IC 1318 GAMMA CYGNI NEBULA (diffuse nebula in Cygnus)
11. IC 2177: (Diffuse Nebula, Monoceros)
12. IC 5076 (diffuse nebula, Cygnus)
13. PK64+5.1 "CAMPBELL'S HYDROGEN STAR" Cygnus (PNG 64.7+5.0)
14. Sh2-235 (diffuse nebula in Auriga).
15. Sh2-276 "BARNARD'S LOOP" (diffuse nebula in Orion, naked eye)
16. IC 2162 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion)
17 Sh2-254 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
18. Sh2-256-7 (diffuse nebula in northern Orion near IC 2162)
19. vdB93 (Gum-1) (diffuse nebula in Monoceros near IC 2177)
20. Lambda Orionis nebular complex (very large, naked-eye)
In addition, a number of the brighter nebulae like NGC 7000 or M42 will respond to H-Beta use for revealing certain specific detail, although other filters may provide a somewhat better view overall.
Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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Rob S
sage
Reged: 03/16/07
Posts: 410
Loc: NZ
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Yes, I used my Astronomik H-Beta on M-42 and the Eta Carina nebula the other week in my 8" on not the darkest of skies, and I was amazed at how much was visible - I was expecting to see nothing. Of course, nothing is exactly what I saw of the Horsehead :-{
Regards,
Rob.
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8" f5 Dob with Feathertouch
Brandon: 16
Pentax: 7, 10 & 20XW
TMB: 30 Paragon
TV: 8 & 13 Ethos;
5 & 13 NaglerT6;
24 Panoptic;
Leica Trinovid 8x50 BN
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3720
Loc: Alabama, USA
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I've seen it with my 10-inch from a very dark area using a H-beta filter. Through Tatarjj's 18-inch it was obvious without a filter at all, so it should be no surprise that you spotted it with a 25-inch. In a 10-inch the shape of the Horsehead is pretty vague, but very obvious in a big telescope. Congratulations on seeing the Horsehead, it's a sort of Mt. Everest of amateur astronomy.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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nytecam
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 4813
Loc: London UK
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Nice observation - my eyesight and LP site are not up to it but my ETX-70 is via this CN thread is 
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+DS-2090+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9/Lodestar/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-spectro page
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F.Meiresonne
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 2956
Loc: Eeklo,Belgium
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Quote:
For me the telescope is definately worth the price. No more feint fuzzies...
In every scope there are faint fuzzies...even in the biggest.
It's just the frontier that is different..
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Freddy Meiresonne
Obsession 18 inch #1638
Orion Optics 8 inch F/4.5 -1/8 wave optics -Vixen GP-E
20x80 Helios Stellar Binos
10x60 Helios Quantum 4(= Obie Mariner)
10x50 Helios Nature sport plus
8x40 Helios Nature sport plus
Eyepieces in use :Pan 35,24,19, N13T6, Pentax 10 XW, N9T6, Ultrascopic 7.5, TV2, baader ortho 12.5 and 9 mm
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sgottlieb
sage
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 243
Loc: SF Bay area
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Quote:
Well, it is up to 20 (and more will undoubtedly be added to the list)
USEFUL TARGETS FOR THE H-BETA FILTER
....
Quickly checking my observing database, I have a few more suggestions --
Ced 90 = Gum 3. This low-excitation nebula is located at the extreme southern tip of the 2.5° emission strip IC 2177 (on the list). David already included vdB 93 = Gum 1 which resides at the north end of this huge filament and responds well to an H-beta filter. But strangely, I didn't find an H-beta filter helped on NGC 2327 (also part of the same complex). I'll have to try that one again.
IC 418. This is a low-excitation planetary and using a H-beta filter in my 18-inch the halo brightens and the central star fades, leaving a more noticeable disc.
Simeis 57 = Propeller Nebula. This faint emission nebula is about 3° north of the Gamma Cygni complex (IC 1318).
There are other objects which the H-beta enhances, though possibly not the best, such as NGC 40. But some of the contrast enhancement is really aperture dependent and the larger the scope, the more objects you can add to this growing list!
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Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space - New article on MASH planetaries
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project
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robinsondd
super member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: St. Mary's City, MD
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Quote:
Quote:
For me the telescope is definately worth the price. No more feint fuzzies...
In every scope there are faint fuzzies...even in the biggest.
It's just the frontier that is different..
Freddy,
You are right. Even in the 25" many objects are feint fuzzies. Thanks for putting it in the correct perspective.
Edited by robinsondd (01/07/08 09:53 AM)
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robinsondd
super member
Reged: 05/28/07
Posts: 125
Loc: St. Mary's City, MD
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Hi all,
Thanks for all the input. I am enjoying all the replies and really did not expect many. This is the first I have heard of the H-beta list from Dave Knisely. I really appreciate all the inputs for new H-beta objects. In the future I post any of the items I am able to see.
Edited by robinsondd (01/07/08 09:54 AM)
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jodimccullough
newbie
Reged: 09/18/07
Posts: 1
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Does the type of Hydrogen beta filter make a difference? Orion has their filters on sale now and I was not sure of their quality.
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2759
Loc: Just passing through.....
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Seen it easily in a 6 inch refractor...dark skies, transparency (and an H-B filter) is the key....
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10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 homemade achromat....EE Barnard MW Sweeper
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
35mm Pan, 26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6778
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
Well, it is up to 20 (and more will undoubtedly be added to the list)
USEFUL TARGETS FOR THE H-BETA FILTER
....
Quickly checking my observing database, I have a few more suggestions --
Ced 90 = Gum 3. This low-excitation nebula is located at the extreme southern tip of the 2.5° emission strip IC 2177 (on the list). David already included vdB 93 = Gum 1 which resides at the north end of this huge filament and responds well to an H-beta filter. But strangely, I didn't find an H-beta filter helped on NGC 2327 (also part of the same complex). I'll have to try that one again.
IC 418. This is a low-excitation planetary and using a H-beta filter in my 18-inch the halo brightens and the central star fades, leaving a more noticeable disc.
Simeis 57 = Propeller Nebula. This faint emission nebula is about 3° north of the Gamma Cygni complex (IC 1318).
There are other objects which the H-beta enhances, though possibly not the best, such as NGC 40. But some of the contrast enhancement is really aperture dependent and the larger the scope, the more objects you can add to this growing list!
I have looked at IC 418 in my scopes, but decided that it was not an H-Beta object. The Lumicon Deep-sky helped over no filter (rated a "2"), and the UHC provided a darker sky and more contrast than the Deep-sky (a marginal "4"). The OIII provided even more contrast than the UHC (a strong "3" to maybe a "4"), but the object was not quite as bright and the fainter outer shell was a bit harder to see. The H-Beta filter came in dead-last on IC 418 (I rated it a "1"), as while it did not extinguish the nebula, in the H-Beta, it was fainter than in any of the other filters (did show a bit of the outer halo though). Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1811
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
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David: would say that all those objects look best in an HB filter? Or is it just that apart from a few, the others look better (but not necessarily the best) in that filter? Just curious as I have been toying with the idea of getting an HB filter and your posting is definitely pushing me to get one!
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6778
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
David: would say that all those objects look best in an HB filter? Or is it just that apart from a few, the others look better (but not necessarily the best) in that filter? Just curious as I have been toying with the idea of getting an HB filter and your posting is definitely pushing me to get one!
Well, most of these objects would look best in an H-Beta, but M20 and perhaps one or two others would probably also be quite good in a narrowband filter like the DGM Optics NPB. M20 is kind of unique in that it contains both reflection and emission nebulosity. To see *all* of it with best overall view is probably done using the NPB. I even like M20 in a Lumicon Deep-sky, but the trifid portion does respond very well to the H-Beta, appearing slightly larger than in the other filters. However, interior detail is changed somewhat (the three lanes are not as prominent), so again, the narrowband NPB filter is probably the winner overall. With the others however, the first filter to try is probably the H-Beta. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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sgottlieb
sage
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 243
Loc: SF Bay area
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Quote:
I have looked at IC 418 in my scopes, but decided that it was not an H-Beta object.
Well, that wasn't my experience but other factors such as aperture do come into play with filter responses.
I think the main point, though, is that the H-beta is not a one-trick pony -- namely, a Horsehead Nebula filter, as it was originally marketed by Lumicon as it does increase the contrast with a variety of objects (some significantly).
Still, the list is relatively small and the objects are generally difficult objects for beginners or not targets for light polluted skies, so it is a limited filter and not the one to buy as the first purchase.
--------------------
Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space - New article on MASH planetaries
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6778
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I have looked at IC 418 in my scopes, but decided that it was not an H-Beta object.
Well, that wasn't my experience but other factors such as aperture do come into play with filter responses.
I think the main point, though, is that the H-beta is not a one-trick pony -- namely, a Horsehead Nebula filter, as it was originally marketed by Lumicon as it does increase the contrast with a variety of objects (some significantly).
Still, the list is relatively small and the objects are generally difficult objects for beginners or not targets for light polluted skies, so it is a limited filter and not the one to buy as the first purchase.
Well, I think Lumicon didn't exactly market it for *only* the Horsehead and California Nebulae, but the information did tend to let one believe that these were the main objects which benefit from the filter. This was, as many things in Astronomy are, incorrect, but to be fair, these are two of the most prominent objects which do benefit the most from the H-Beta. As for IC 418, its dimness in the H-Beta compared to the views in the other filters put it down on my ranking, but this does not make the filter exactly useless on that object. I do tell people to use the H-Beta on M42, as it shows *different* detail, although it does not appear as large or quite as prominent as it does in a filter like the UHC. I do like using the H-Beta on M42, because my Lumicon version has a booming red passband that, at low powers, allows me to see rather obvious reddish colorations in the nebula in scopes as small as 8 inches. Indeed, last night, I had a friend of mine over with his 8 inch f/5, and when I had him put in the H-Beta at 32x on M42, he exclaimed, "Now I see RED!" Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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sgottlieb
sage
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 243
Loc: SF Bay area
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Quote:
I do like using the H-Beta on M42, because my Lumicon version has a booming red passband that, at low powers, allows me to see rather obvious reddish colorations in the nebula in scopes as small as 8 inches.
...and some bright red stars as a by-product, I'm assuming. Interestingly, on M42 there is an outer wing or loop on the west side (oriented N-S) which obviously increases in contrast with the H-beta filter although the overall nebula significantly dims, of course. So, at least for seeing this feature on M42, the H-beta is useful.
--------------------
Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space - New article on MASH planetaries
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6778
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I do like using the H-Beta on M42, because my Lumicon version has a booming red passband that, at low powers, allows me to see rather obvious reddish colorations in the nebula in scopes as small as 8 inches.
...and some bright red stars as a by-product, I'm assuming. Interestingly, on M42 there is an outer wing or loop on the west side (oriented N-S) which obviously increases in contrast with the H-beta filter although the overall nebula significantly dims, of course. So, at least for seeing this feature on M42, the H-beta is useful.
Yup, some of the stars do have a reddish hue in the Lumicon H-Beta, although I was referring to red *in the nebula itself*. That is the part many people don't get to see all that often. It seemed to show up best in John's 8 inch f/5 at between 30x and 52x using the H-Beta. Even M43 looked a little reddish. At higher powers, the red was more subdued, and beyond 100x, little red could be seen (except in the stars and maybe some in parts of the Huygenian region). The brighter arc or bar-like feature shown by the H-Beta was once given a name, but I can't remember what it was. What is interesting is to go rapidly between the H-Beta and the UHC on that region to actually see the H-Beta "bar" feature jump out at you (I use the Lumicon Multi-filter selector for that). Clear skies to you.
--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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