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Buster
sage
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 408
Loc: New York City
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Today, I drove up about 45 miles north of NYC to meet a friend to do some observing. He has had a scope for many years, but hasn't used it much cause he says he didn't know anyone else that was into astronomy. Well, we decided to change that!
I knew of a place we could possibly try out - the parking lot of a county park that I knew had no lights and fairly unobstucted views in most directions. When we got there, before even looking up, I knew that it was much darker than anything I was accustomed to, as I could barely see more than 2 feet in front of me. Looking up at the sky took my breath away. For the first time, I saw naked eye M31, M42, M36, M37, M38, NGC-869, among others. I couldn't believe how many clusters were hanging above my head, just waiting to be explored. And, for the first time in my life, I saw the Milky Way.
I helped him align his scope, as he said he didn't really know how to use an EQ mount and always just kind of figured out a way to get the scope pointed at whatever he wanted to view. Of course, I'm still figuring out my own scope for myself, so I only could do the best I could. Our first target was Saturn, and we wanted to compare the views through my StarMax 127 with his Bushnell 4.5" reflector. I must say, with my eyepieces in his scope, the views weren't half bad, much better than I was expecting based on the Bushnell-bashing I'm always reading. His mount, however, was much too flimsy and took a good 30 seconds to stop vibrating once touched. Still, if that was my first scope, if wouldn't have turned me away from the hobby. He was awed by the view through the StarMax, as he saw the Cassini Division for the first time, and also 1 cloud band on the planet.
Next up was the Andromeda Galaxy. My friend said he had looked for it in the past, but never was able to find it. I showed it to him in my scope, then coached him on how I locate it. He found it very quickly, but the view in both of our scopes was rather disappointing. It looked brighter and larger than I'm used to, but I still didn't really see any definition in the structure outside the nucleus.
Then, I used his binoculars and explored as many clusters as I could find, most of which I couldn't identify. I didn't care, as the view was simply amazing. Unfortunately, I can't look through binos for very long as they tend to make me nauseous. 
After looking at a few brighter objects, such as M42, we decided to try to see M1, the Crab Nebula. The previous night, I tried forever to find it, with no luck. Very frustrating. We both manned our posts at our scopes and starting scanning the area where we knew it was. After a while, I was starting to think I wasn't going to be able to find it, when I slo-moed it into my FOV. I starting yelling "Holy sh*t, holy sh*t, holy sh*t!!!", and he knew right away that I had found it. I gotta say, it wasn't much to look at, but just finding it was satisfaction enough for me. Now that I know where to look, I hope I can find it easily in the future.
I had major dew on my scope soon after that, so I had to pack it in. First thing on my list of things to buy is some sort of dew prevention. I think I'll just go with the dew shield that Orion sells for my scope. On average, about how long can I expect a dew shield to fend off formation?
All in all, it was a great night. I found a great place to observe that's less than an hour's drive away from the heart of NYC. Hope to make it back there soon.
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Buster
Orion XT4.5, Orion StarMax 127mm
Nikon CP4500, Canon Digital Rebel, ToUCam II
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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It depends on how long the shield is and how rapidly the temperature drops to the dewpoint temperature and what the temperature of the OTA is before the drop occurs.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Great story! I have yet to go to a dark site with my new-found knowledge of the stars...
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Echo
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/29/03
Posts: 3320
Loc: So Cal
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Buster,
Very cool! It really pays to get out in the dark away from city lights. I look forward to more posts like this. Congrats on the first view of the milky way. Isn't it glorious?
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Queen of GOTO
Life is short.... get a massage!
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BCB
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 3830
Loc: Look over your shoulder
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My first post here, but I can relate to the first "DARK sky" view..
Back in 86 when I was in the army, we had "war games" at a marine base in southern California. Mostly desert n sand, LOTS of sand.. Just outside of a town called "Oceanside" if I remember correct.. We had been there about a week or so, getting things located n set up for our unit, as well as a few others.. One night I had happened to be up late, and was wandering around outside our tent, and just happened to look up. 
More stars than I had EVER seen back home in the NE.
I see this long, and I mean LONG wispy white thing in the sky and thought it was a smallish but long cloud.. I kept watching the sky, waiting for this thing to move..... Nothin doin. It's not moving at all.. 
Then it dawns on me..  It's the milky way !!! It was the first time I had EVER seen it.. LOL For the rest of my time there, my nights were spent just looking up awestruck by the whole thing. Best 4 weeks I ever had.. Wish I had a scope with me, now that I REALLY think about it. 
That was a long time ago, and the memorys are fond.. Glad I'm starting to get back to this hobby.. I'd forgotten just how much I've forgotten.. LOL
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Mark
Making people sorry they asked since 1967
Astro-Tech 102ED
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
SVP mount w/Meade 497 Autostar GOTO mod
Treeline Observatory
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Darren
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/17/03
Posts: 885
Loc: 44N, 79W (Newmarket, Ont., Can...
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Quote:
Our first target was Saturn, and we wanted to compare the views through my StarMax 127 with his Bushnell 4.5" reflector. I must say, with my eyepieces in his scope, the views weren't half bad, much better than I was expecting based on the Bushnell-bashing I'm always reading. His mount, however, was much too flimsy and took a good 30 seconds to stop vibrating once touched. Still, if that was my first scope, if wouldn't have turned me away from the hobby.
From the description, it sounds as though your friend has exactly the same 'scope as I do (4.5" f/8 Bushnell reflector on rickety EQ-1 mount). The optics on these Bushnell scopes are actually surprisingly good ... the accessories are their downfall. With some half-decent EP's you can get some very pleasant views through them.
Quote:
Next up was the Andromeda Galaxy. My friend said he had looked for it in the past, but never was able to find it. I showed it to him in my scope, then coached him on how I locate it. He found it very quickly, but the view in both of our scopes was rather disappointing. It looked brighter and larger than I'm used to, but I still didn't really see any definition in the structure outside the nucleus.
Don't be surprised ... galaxies generally don't show much detail in smaller instruments. I saw a beautiful wide-field view of M31 using a buddy's 32mm EP once. The two satellite galaxies, M32 and M110, were also visible, and M31 itself included a dim elongated body as well as a bright core. But no other detail was visible. I've heard people say that under very dark skies, a dust lane is visible with a 6" scope or better.
Quote:
After looking at a few brighter objects, such as M42, we decided to try to see M1, the Crab Nebula.
I did the same Friday night. And my reaction was similar to yours. First time I ever saw it too.
Quote:
All in all, it was a great night. I found a great place to observe that's less than an hour's drive away from the heart of NYC. Hope to make it back there soon.
Great report, Buster. Dark skies make all the difference, don't they? Happy hunting.
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Clear nights ... dark sites,
Darren
Edited by Darren (11/25/03 05:46 PM)
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Norvin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1540
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Quote:
Back in 86 when I was in the army, we had "war games" at a marine base in southern California... One night I had happened to be up late, and was wandering around outside our tent, and just happened to look up.
More stars than I had EVER seen back home in the NE.
I see this long, and I mean LONG wispy white thing in the sky and thought it was a smallish but long cloud.. I kept watching the sky, waiting for this thing to move..... Nothin doin. It's not moving at all..
Then it dawns on me.. It's the milky way !!! It was the first time I had EVER seen it.. LOL For the rest of my time there, my nights were spent just looking up awestruck by the whole thing. Best 4 weeks I ever had.. Wish I had a scope with me, now that I REALLY think about it.
No binoculars???
Norvin
Post #239
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 Norvin
10" Black X Class (GSO) Dobsonian
Norvinian Dobsonian Telescope Mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
:)
My first post here, but I can relate to the first "DARK sky" view..
Welcome BCB!
The Milky Way is awesome isn't it?! My grandad told me a story once about how he was evacuated as a child at the start of World War II. He lived in the city and was sent with a bus full of other children to a small village in the countryside where there was no danger of being bombed.
He hated it, he was sent to live with some complete strangers on a farm, and it rained continuously for the whole of the first week. Then on about the 8th day it stopped raining, and he remembers going outside in the dark and looking up at the sky. The shock of seeing the heavens with no lights made him sit down!! LOL! He was completely stunned!
He told me there was a lot of interest in astronomy during the wars. This was due to the blackouts, where no lights were allowed to shine outside and all windows had to be blacked out to prevent light from escaping and being seen by the bombers. His parents told him how, during the first few weeks of the blackouts in the city, people were stood in the streets gazing at the stars for hours on end, just completely dumbstruck by the view!! They had seen nothing like it before. Astronomical societies across England were booming with membership applications and interest!
I read news reports about how similar interest grew in the States during those big power cuts you had not too long ago - that people could see the milky way from the middle of cities for the first time ever.
I would love to regain our dark skies. Many people are aware of saving animals, plants and other natural habitats from extinction. But so few people realise how close to extinction dark skies are getting!
Jason
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That's the same way the sky looked in west-central Missouri out in the middle of nowhere on a missile LF during a 1600 dispatch.
Pitch black. I never saw it so dark before and there is no outside lighting on an LF site. Darkest skies I've ever seen in my life.
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BCB
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 3830
Loc: Look over your shoulder
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Quote:
No binoculars???
Sadly, ,,,,,,no....... TBH< I didn't even think about it at the time... Someone else mentioned sitting down after first seeing TRUELY dark skies n what's in it..
That's about right.. PLONK!! Right down on my third point of contact I went. LMAO!!
Thanks for the warm welcome BTW.. I've been lurking round for a few weeks now, trying to get a feel for the peeps here, and attempt to remember what I've forgotten from long ago.. Seems to be a great group of people..
One question though... Where's the n00bs forum in each section ? LOL Seems to be the ONLY thing this place is missing.. I have a few questions that don't seem to fit in what's available here.
BC
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Mark
Making people sorry they asked since 1967
Astro-Tech 102ED
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
SVP mount w/Meade 497 Autostar GOTO mod
Treeline Observatory
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desertstars
Deja moo
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 30019
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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Quote:
Glad I'm starting to get back to this hobby.. I'd forgotten just how much I've forgotten.. LOL
I know that feeling. I was pretty knowledgable at one time, but that was a long time ago. Every now and then I do something, or read something, and get this odd sort of deja vu feeling. Of course, in this case, I really HAVE done this before.
Darkest skies I ever experienced were over Baja California. A friend and I did a bicycle trip the length of the penninsula, camping out along the way. There were a couple of nights when I stayed awake so long looking at the unbelievable sky that I had a hell of a time pushing those pedals the next day. (Fortunately, I had some binoculars with me!) 
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Tom W.
SVP8 'She turned me into a 3-legged Newt' EQ
Ralph, the All-Purpose 102mm Refractor
Under the Desert Stars
"If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going." Professor Irwin Corey
Edited by desertstars (11/25/03 05:52 PM)
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NuroSlam
sage
Reged: 10/02/03
Posts: 241
Loc: Carrollton, TX
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One question though... Where's the n00bs forum in each section ? LOL Seems to be the ONLY thing this place is missing.. I have a few questions that don't seem to fit in what's available here.
It shows up every once in a while, but the only way i have been able to find it is by adding the "6," into the url like so
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9,10
Slam
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Ralph
Telestar 60mm, 395 EQ Mount, WeeCam
You fear me now don't you?
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rboe
Numbfinger
Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 39690
Loc: Phx, AZ
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Well....it's pretty much everywhere. If you're new, old, too smart to know better - just ask away. There are probably a bunch of us wanting an answer; and didn't even know it.
Beware though, we have no control of topic tracking and diverging is almost considered mandatory. A sense of humor is mandatory!
The equipment section seems to be the catch all. Start there (or here, see comment above about topics) and see where it leads. We do like to be anual in the picture posting area. No moon shots in the Saturn thread, keep pics below 60kb.
And have fun, even if it's cloudy. Or cold, or something is broke, or you have not bought a scope yet.
Oh, and explain tems like n00bs; I had no idea what you meant!
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Ron
NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies
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BCB
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 3830
Loc: Look over your shoulder
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[QUOTE]Oh, and explain tems like n00bs; I had no idea what you meant![/QUOTE]
See Merriam-Webster for the definition. LMAO 
Now, just so you have an idea where I'm coming from....I hate to admit it, but I'm stuck using a very SMALL el cheapo Meade DS model.. My kids got it for xmas last year, and we've used it pretty hard over the summer... Me more than them to tell the truth..
With holidays n other what-not coming up, Looks to me that I wait till after Christmas to get a scope.. Back when I was younger, I couldn't justify spending 4-500 on a scope.. With the kids, it's MORE than justifiable. Ones REALLY hooked (about as bad as I am, even brought books home from school library) and the other has a passing interest. I see a spark, so I'm gonna see how big a flame I can get out of her. At the very least, even if she DOESN'T stick with it she'll still enjoy looking up, and I end up with a very nice scope to use..
I figure after xmas, everyone will have gotten themselves new "toys" to play with and will be looking to see sell something.. Astromart's been my best friend for at least 2 weeks..:)
Quote:
Beware though, we have no control of topic tracking and diverging is almost considered mandatory. A sense of humor is mandatory!
Hmmmmmmmmm Sounds VERY familiar.. I mod at another forum,(mindbinge.com which is DOWN for the last 3 days):( and the term "binge-slapped" comes to mind...It's what happens when someone goes off on a WILD tangent in a thread, and totally de-rails it.
Like I just did to this thread LMAO 
(3rd edit LOL )
BC
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Mark
Making people sorry they asked since 1967
Astro-Tech 102ED
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
SVP mount w/Meade 497 Autostar GOTO mod
Treeline Observatory
Edited by BCB (11/25/03 10:31 PM)
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rboe
Numbfinger
Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 39690
Loc: Phx, AZ
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BC; you are still kinda on topic dark skies. You made a nice effort with Christmas shopping - just didn't run with it! But you're new, you'll get the hang of it.
Now to set a bad example; The Boundry Waters Canoe Area (BWCA) in northern Minnesota, while a backwater and canoe heaven, have very nice dark skies. Never saw any light glow when I was there. But that was in the early 70's. In fact Northern Minnesota tends to have very dark skies period. And I left. Something about a job and mosquito's.
Dang, back on topic.
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Ron
NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies
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Charlie Hein
Postmaster
Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 6569
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
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Quote:
BC; you are still kinda on topic dark skies. You made a nice effort with Christmas shopping - just didn't run with it! But you're new, you'll get the hang of it.
Now to set a bad example; The Boundry Waters Canoe Area (BWCA) in northern Minnesota, while a backwater and canoe heaven, have very nice dark skies. Never saw any light glow when I was there. But that was in the early 70's. In fact Northern Minnesota tends to have very dark skies period. And I left. Something about a job and mosquito's.
Dang, back on topic.
...was there this summer. Fantastic area, I had no idea before discovering it on the web... did more hiking in the two weeks that we were on the North Shore than I have in the last ten years.
I live in South Florida. I can tell you without reservation that the mosquitoes there have *nothing* on the ones that rise on the evening breezes in the Everglades.
They have been known to carry off small children and farm animals.
... but the North Shore sure has some nice dark skies!
Charlie
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Weston CSC:
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imjeffp
Senior Space Cadet
Reged: 09/30/03
Posts: 4424
Loc: Cedar Park, Texas
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Don't forget--every thread must turn to guns or cats.
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Blog
ST80 • AT80EDT/LXD650
ETX-90/DS-2000 • 10" LX200 Classic ("The Quarter-Meter Telescope at the Heritage Park Observatory")
SPC900NC • DMK21AF04 • Digital Rebel XT
  
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Norvin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/10/03
Posts: 1540
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http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat=0
Norvin
Post #246
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Norvin
10" Black X Class (GSO) Dobsonian
Norvinian Dobsonian Telescope Mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The Boundry Waters Canoe Area (BWCA) in northern Minnesota, while a backwater and canoe heaven, have very nice dark skies. Never saw any light glow when I was there. But that was in the early 70's. In fact Northern Minnesota tends to have very dark skies period. And I left. Something about a job and mosquito's.
I still live in MN and get to the BWCAW every year. The trick is timing. The best time to visit the BWCAW in September. No crowds, and no bugs. We allways have several lakes to ourselves and may only see 4-5 other people in our annual 10 day trip. Have to put up with cooler weather but most days it gets in the 60's some in the 70's. Now to tie it into astronomy. Yes the skys are dark. At least once a trip we float out to the middle of a like and just look up. Best naked eye viewing I've ever done. I've always toyed with bringing my ETX90 with me, but I think it would be out of place.
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rboe
Numbfinger
Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 39690
Loc: Phx, AZ
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Barry;
You made me home sick. I have several friends that managed to get to the BWCA every year. Some could do multiple trips (long weekends) but I begged off until I could spend at least two weeks and never made. Glacier Park always make the final list. Hated to portage! Besides, in Duluth I just never had the job opportunities so cash flow was always an issue.
Have you done the Brule River yet? Especially in the winter? Fun and scarey as hell too!
Back to dark skies; I took my Pronto back a couple summers ago - forgetting that it didn't get dark in Duluth until about two hours after bed time. Northern latitudes are the pits when it comes to waiting for it to get dark. That is one advantage rarely mentioned for us southerners. When the sun falls it doesn't linger. That sucker goes down!
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Ron
NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
15X70 Obies
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 16399
Loc: Brooker, FL
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I spent a few years at sea - now there's a truly "dark sky"! All I had to observe were the Navy-issue 7x50s and a my own pair of Zeiss 8x42s, but there's nothing to compare with the Magellanic Clouds, the Southern Cross, and of course, the Milky Way...I didn't really need a scope!
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N11GPS Fastar
TOA-130S
MK66 Std
Vintage C5
Megrez II 80mm ED Triplet APO
SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II
Sirius EQ-G
ST8XE/CFW-8(LRGBHa)/AO-7/DF-2/STV Dlx/ST237a/350D (Unmodded)/Mallincam Color Hyper Plus/DSI III Color/DSI II Pro
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Maggie and Casey
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi folks,
Just thought I'd jump on the dark skies bandwagon. Haven't seen any for a while round here but this year my wife & myself visited the Maldives on our honeymoon.
At nights we'd go to the beach & lie on the loungers just looking up, the sky was awesome. Really wish I'd thought of bringing binoculars.
The darkest skies I remember was in '93 when myself & some friends visited Brazil for 2 months in the summer. We stayed at various places, some of them well away from any lights. As far as I can remember that was my first time seeing the milky way. It was exactly as somebody here already said, you're sorting thinking "Why's that long cloud going across the sky and theres not another in sight" Then the pennies drops and so does your jaw.
I was chatting to my mum a few days back and she happened to say about how there doesn't seem to be as many stars as there used to. It was a case of Hey mum, see all those streets lights that didn't used to be there, do you think they might have pinced them
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