Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi Everyone...,
I'm putting together a Faint Target Observing List of potential visually-observable features/objects in the night sky. The scope to view these will be a 36"f4.5 from Overgaard, AZ so the range of magnitudes, if a magnitude is known at all, is 16 to 21 for any suggestions you may have (hopefully I'll get a few). I have 36 entries so far with a total of 100 anticipated.
I’ve got the Aintno List and the Ultimate Observing List, but I want input from you. Has anyone seen a cool feature in a photo and wondered if it's visually observable? If so, send it to me. Sometimes we see a feature in a Messier or NGC object and wonder…. Some object type categories in the list so far are: Red Giants from dwarf galaxies, a few high proper motion quasars within a 0.5 degree tfov, central stars of certain planetaries, PN’s within globulars, SN remnants, faint globulars, evaporating gaseous globules, KBO's…
Two common suggestions, Pluto's co-dwarf-planet Charon and the central star of M57, have been seen in my 20" scope, so..., must go fainter/lower contrast...
What cool things at the edge of visibility can you think of?
Suggestions (hopefully I'll get a few) should be...
1. Visible from Arizona's latitude (above the horizon).
2. Visible in some long-duration image (for confirmation of detail).
3. Coordinates are nice but not necessary, moving coordinates are fine if orbital elements are known or a finder chart is available.
Hope to hear from you... Steven Aggas
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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deepsky
sage
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 210
Loc: oregon
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http://www.oregonstarparty.org/awards/2007-3revenge.pdf
http://www.oregonstarparty.org/awards/2006-3dim.pdf
here are a couple of Oregon Star Party challenge lists-"messier's revenge" and "dim and dimmer" enjoy!
-------------------- jim jackson
Astroleague Observer Award junkie
Messier Club-Honorary
Lunar Club
Binocular Messier Club
Double Star Club
Herschel 400 Club
Urban Observing Club
Deep Sky Binocular Club
Caldwell Club Silver&Gold
Southern Sky Binocular Club
Southern Sky Telescopic Club
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bicparker
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 1437
Loc: Plano, TX
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Any of the Advanced Observing Lists for Texas Star Party. Those are put together by Larry Mitchell, primarily using his 36" Obsession. We (Bob aka Crazy Bob, Mike aka The Unknown Astronomer, and myself) have had some wonderful times doing those lists through the Yard Scope (also a 36" f/5) over the years.
-------------------- Bic Parker
17.5" f/5 dob
10" f/10 SCT
5" f/8 refractor
80mm f/6 refractor
66mm f/6 refractor
Plus a few others out of the rotation
Edited by bicparker (04/21/08 03:39 PM)
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Thanks Jim, there are a few objects on those lists to add to mine, some on the Dimmer list I've seen in the 20".
Bic, do you have copies of these Advanced Observing Lists? I've searched google but object lists don't come up...
Thanks, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi Guys, I'm actually more interested in features or objects *not* on a TSP list, or any other list. I would like the bulk of this list to be never-before-attempted stuff. If this list is composed of other list material, then it's just been-there-done-that.
Any suggestions of new stuff?
Thanks,Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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ph2
super member
Reged: 11/28/05
Posts: 103
Loc: Aalborg, Denmark
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Have you seen the pulsar/neutron star inside the Crab nebula with your 36" telescope ?
From the variable star forum --> The Sounds of Pulsars
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi ph2, I've seen the pulsar in the 20". When I put the 36" on it, the nebula was a mess of filaments. The bow shock close to the pulsar (blue arc near center of the pic) may be visible and it's on The List. I have a few photos now for the next time I look....
Hubble Heritage picture of the Crab Nebula: closeup of filaments
Any more suggestions?
Thanks, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
Edited by Olivier Biot (04/25/08 08:58 PM)
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Jeff Young
Post Laureate
   
Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 3164
Loc: Ireland
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What about Hoag's object?
I assume Einstien's Cross is already on some of those lists?
I've struck out on Gyulbudaghian's with a 16", but perhaps it's more fodder for a 20" than a 36".
What about M87's jet?
-- Jeff.
-------------------- Nikon 18x70s / UA Millennium Colorado:
Solarscope SF70 / TV Pronto / AP400QMD Coronado SolarMax40 DS / Bogen 055+3130
APM MC1610 / Tak FC-100 / AP1200GTO Tak Mewlon 250 / AP600EGTO
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
What about Hoag's object?
I assume Einstein's Cross is already on some of those lists?
I've struck out on Gyulbudaghian's with a 16", but perhaps it's more fodder for a 20" than a 36".
What about M87's jet?
-- Jeff.
Hi Jeff, thanks! Hoag’s object (#18) was suggested by my friend Johnny Bravo, Einstien's Cross is on there too (#7), M87’s jet was seen in the 20”, and although you think Gyulbudaghian's Nebula, Herbig-Haro 215, is better for smaller scopes, how about ‘seeing detail’ in/around Gyulbudaghian's Nebula?
#37 - ‘Seeing detail’ Gyulbubaghian's nebula, or the outline of the molecular cloud.
Thanks! Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Dain
professor emeritus
   
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 590
Loc: Upstate New York
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Steven ( or Mr. Wizard ), 
I took a peak at your personal web page, that 36" f4.5 is a beauty! Great job. Also, excellent work on the others! I would be really interested in looking through that baby if I ever got to Arizona!
Regards, A CN friend- Dain
-------------------- Regards,
Your CN Friend-
Dain
You can't reach for the stars.....if you can't see them. Fight Light Pollution.
Adirondack Public Observatory
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MessierScott
super member
Reged: 06/18/07
Posts: 187
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deepsky, I was looking at the link for the Messier's Revenge program and was wondering what the coordinates are for galaxy MAC 1641+3653, near M13? Any idea? Thanks!
-------------------- Scott Kranz
20-inch f/4.3 Starmaster w/Zambuto mirror, Feathertouch focuser, GO TO & tracking
7-inch Starmaster
H-alpha Coronado PST
Denkmeier II binoviewers w/24mm Panoptics
16x80 binos
Astronomical Society of Kansas City
Astronomical League Messier, Meteor, Sunspotter, & Asteroid Observing Programs Coordinator
ASKC Dark Sky Site
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi MessierScott (cool name), I think MAC galaxies are named using their coordinates...
Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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deepsky
sage
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 210
Loc: oregon
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Quote:
deepsky, I was looking at the link for the Messier's Revenge program and was wondering what the coordinates are for galaxy MAC 1641+3653, near M13? Any idea? Thanks!
I don't have the 117,000 object Mitchell Anonymous Catalog loaded into my Megastar V5 software atlas, so can't tell you, but someone else might.
-------------------- jim jackson
Astroleague Observer Award junkie
Messier Club-Honorary
Lunar Club
Binocular Messier Club
Double Star Club
Herschel 400 Club
Urban Observing Club
Deep Sky Binocular Club
Caldwell Club Silver&Gold
Southern Sky Binocular Club
Southern Sky Telescopic Club
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Steven ( or Mr. Wizard ), 
I took a peak at your personal web page, that 36" f4.5 is a beauty! Great job. Also, excellent work on the others! I would be really interested in looking through that baby if I ever got to Arizona!
Regards, A CN friend- Dain
Thanks Dain! My friends all came up with names for themselves John is Jonny Bravo (aka Stellar King), Ron is Camping Man, they call me Mr Wizard and my wife Lori is Smurfette. We're not always serious astronomers....
I appreciate the compliment on the scopes too. Labors of love.
Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
   
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 1533
Loc: NorCal
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Quote:
deepsky, I was looking at the link for the Messier's Revenge program and was wondering what the coordinates are for galaxy MAC 1641+3653, near M13? Any idea? Thanks!
Steven is correct. MAC galaxies are listed by their coordinates. If two are so close together, they would have the A or B sublettering. MAC is created by Larry Mitchell of the Advanced Observing List at TSP. He is another very accomplished observer. He is the guy on the left. He uses a 36" Obsession.
-------------------- Clear Skies,
Alvin #26
22" f/4.1 reflector, Takahashi TOA-130S on AP1200GTO (just sold), 30" f/4.3 StarMaster and Antares 6" f/6.5 on Orion SVP
FaintFuzzies | TAC | TAC-Sac
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tatarjj
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 905
Loc: Auburn, AL
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Never before seen? There are plenty of those. Try Hewett 1 in Sextans, which is tied with Sh2-216 as the closest planetary nebula to earth. Hewett 1 was discoverd in 2004, is 2 degrees acorss (with evidence for a fainter outer shell 10 degrees acorss), and has never been observed visually. I attempted it with my 18" scope from West Texas in December 2006, and found not even a hint of anything. Furthermore, it's quite likely that it is simply unobservable visually, period, regardless of scope size- it may be large, but it is EXTREMELY faint. It wasn't even discovered by imaging it- it was discovered when it was noted that all the galaxies in a circular region in Sextans had a very faint OIII emission line at near zero redshift.
Other never observed (to my knowledge) targets include the planetary nebulae JaFu1 and JaFu2 in Palomar 6 and NGC 6441, respectively.
There are hundreds- thousands even- of very faint and distant Abell galaxy clusters that have no records of ever being seen visually. I have seen a couple of these in my "small" 18" scope. Some of them have such large central elliptical galaxies that they can be seen with my 18" from over 2 billion light years away- twice the distance of ACO 2065, the Corona Borealis supercluster. It's thrilling to track down such distant galaxy clusters.
Even such well-known catalogs such as the Sharpless nebulae have members that have no record of being observed visually.
There is, to my knowledge, no place that records who or when the first visual observation of a target took place. Thus, it's very hard to say who was the first person to see something visually, unless it was JUST discovered. No real way of checking to see if anyone has ever observed Sh2-135, for example, without just doing a google search of Sh2-135. Furthermore, more often than not, people will see something and not post anything on the web. I've actually observed Sh2-135, but I never posted an observing report of it, so someone who just has seen it and does a search for information about it could conclude that they may be the first person ever to see it. That said, now that I mentioned it in this thread, there's a good chance that this will generate search engine hits for this object being observed...
-------------------- John T.
Auburn, AL
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos
Edited by tatarjj (04/22/08 01:28 PM)
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Thanks John,
Hewett 1, JaFu1, and JaFu2 are on the list (38, 39, and 40)!
I purposefully refrained from putting AGC's on the list. I've seen many but wanted a good variety of objects. My request is not to say "I'm the first to see it", though there may be things that I am, but by asking others what's cool/tough I get things I may not have thought of/known of.
Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Never
super member
Reged: 11/22/05
Posts: 109
Loc: Finland
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Quote:
No real way of checking to see if anyone has ever observed Sh2-135, for example, without just doing a google search of Sh2-135. Furthermore, more often than not, people will see something and not post anything on the web. I've actually observed Sh2-135, but I never posted an observing report of it, so someone who just has seen it and does a search for information about it could conclude that they may be the first person ever to see it. That said, now that I mentioned it in this thread, there's a good chance that this will generate search engine hits for this object being observed...
Jere's MAC has the minimum aperture as UHC + 14".
/Jake
-------------------- Jaakko Saloranta - Some basic sketches.../
8" Orion DSE
4" Sky-Watcher
3" Konus RFT
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deepsky
sage
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 210
Loc: oregon
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By the way Steven..
What a great write-up in the June S&T "Taming a Monster Scope". Congrats!
Wow! Now I understand why you are looking for challenges. What an ideal large aperture set-up you have.
-------------------- jim jackson
Astroleague Observer Award junkie
Messier Club-Honorary
Lunar Club
Binocular Messier Club
Double Star Club
Herschel 400 Club
Urban Observing Club
Deep Sky Binocular Club
Caldwell Club Silver&Gold
Southern Sky Binocular Club
Southern Sky Telescopic Club
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
By the way Steven..
What a great write-up in the June S&T "Taming a Monster Scope". Congrats!
Wow! Now I understand why you are looking for challenges. What an ideal large aperture set-up you have.
Thank you Jim... I love building 'em, love using 'em, and wow I made it into S&T. It just keeps getting better...
I've gotten some really good suggestions for the list from folks at CN. It'll be a fun list to tackle. Do you have any for the list?
Thanks again, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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nytecam
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 4813
Loc: London UK
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Kool objectives Mr Wizard your 36" is x170 the 'collecting' power of my 70mm OG and wonder what I'd 'see' tonight from Smoky London Town starting in Leo with the 40 or so galaxies in AGC 1367
-------------------- Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+DS-2090+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9/Lodestar/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-spectro page
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Thank you nytecam...
Any suggestions for the list?
Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Ok, nine distance class 7, mag > 18.0, Abell Galaxy Clusters are on the list....
ACO 1560 D:7,R:2 Cluster in Coma Bernices, 18.1 ACO 1995 D:7,R:1 Cluster in Draco, 18.4 ACO 2232 D:7,R:1 Cluster in Draco, 18.1 ACO 908 D:7,R:1 Cluster in Leo, 18.4 ACO 700 D:7,R:0 Cluster in Linx, 18.3 ACO 530 D:7,R:2 Cluster in Orion, 18.2 ACO 825 D:7,R:1 Cluster in Ursa Major, 18.2 ACO 851 D:7,R:1 Cluster in Ursa Major, 18.4 ACO 1745 D:7,R:2Cluster in Ursa Major, 18.4
Anybody else have suggestions of cool things?
Thanks, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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deepsky
sage
Reged: 12/04/05
Posts: 210
Loc: oregon
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Steven
This has probably occurred to you, but you might want to go back and look at some celestial eye candy through the 36"- for instance, do you see color in the Orion Nebula?
-------------------- jim jackson
Astroleague Observer Award junkie
Messier Club-Honorary
Lunar Club
Binocular Messier Club
Double Star Club
Herschel 400 Club
Urban Observing Club
Deep Sky Binocular Club
Caldwell Club Silver&Gold
Southern Sky Binocular Club
Southern Sky Telescopic Club
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi Jim, yep, I've actually seen color in M42 in the 20", in the 36" it was just awesome... But you're right the eyecandy is good in terms of it being a two-fer, candy plus some dificult feature. Like M76, it should be called the Apple Neb, not Apple Core Neb. To finish off the list I may end up browsing googled ccd images of objects for faint/unique features. But I wanted to get input from others on what they think is cool or difficult.
Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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bicparker
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 1437
Loc: Plano, TX
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Steven, It is funny you mentioned M76... we were observing that through the 82" Struve telescope in early December.
We came to the conclusion that M76 was simply "In the Way!". I ended up sketching 14 galaxies around the M76 that are otherwise uncharted. It would be interesting if you can see some of these through your 36".
It was a great lesson on how wide the dynamic range of the eye is compared to our imaging capabilities.
-------------------- Bic Parker
17.5" f/5 dob
10" f/10 SCT
5" f/8 refractor
80mm f/6 refractor
66mm f/6 refractor
Plus a few others out of the rotation
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Hi Bic, viewing through an 82", very cool.... If you send me a copy of your sketch I'll see what's visible?
Thanks, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10955
Loc: Los Angeles
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Well, --the entire list of M31 globulars --every planetary in the Abell planetary catalog --all the features in the Arp galaxy catalog (bridges, etc.) --a count of the number of stars visible in NGC206. Astrometric magnitude info exists for the brightest 100-200 stars in that star cloud, so you could determine the actual limit of your scope. --if you live long enough, the Mitchell Anonymous Catalog of galaxies.
The above should keep you busy for a few years.
-------------------- Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Steven Aggas
sage
Reged: 04/15/08
Posts: 289
Loc: Arizona
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Quote:
Well, --the entire list.... --every.... --all....
The above should keep you busy for a few years.
Hmmmm, I think that would exceed the anticipated total of 100 tough objects, with replacements as sucessful observations are made. There may be a few Arp bridges that are tough, a couple Abell planetaries extremely faint and galaxies beyond the MAC list that are targets for a 36".
Any specific ones within those lists come to mind?
Thanks, Steven
-------------------- Mr. Wizard
Elements in Harmony I, an 8"f6 German Equatorial - Stellafane Winner,
II a 20"f4.2 Newt-Dob - Astrofest Winner,
III a 6"f3.5 Finder/Newt-Dob, and
IV a 36"f4.5 Newt-Dob - "If it's up there, it's in here."
www.DarkSkyObserving.com
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10955
Loc: Los Angeles
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Yeah, Planetaries: Abell 1,9,18,45,58,and73 Galaxy Clusters: AGC4071 Peculiar galaxies: Arp139 (jet) MCG +5-31-135 Arp146 (ring) PGC 509/510 Arp151 (jet) MCG +9-19-73
These were not seen in a 28", though Abell73 was suspected.
-------------------- Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
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