Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums
Privacy Policy |
Please read our Terms
of Service | Signup and
Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User
lira
super member
Reged: 12/26/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Northeast, USA
|
|
Hello,
I was looking forward to globular star clusters; however, I fear that my 6" f/8 Newt will not offer breathtaking views of globulars. For instance, M5 remained a faint fuzzy through my telescope, not much different from the view through my 10X50s. I discovered the open cluster M11 last night (gorgeous!), and thought that it looked like my expectations of a globular.
Thus, my questions: Can you recommend specific globulars for a 6" Newt in moderately light-polluted skies, globulars that can be somewhat resolved? Or, can you recommend compact open clusters, like M11?
Thanks,
Sue
--------------------
Celestron 6" f/8 Dob Star Hopper
10x50 Nikon binoculars
Astro Chair
|
JerryK
member
Reged: 09/25/05
Posts: 93
|
|
Sue,
Check your collimation-the six inch should supply views far superior to your binoculars! I've got a 6" newt and it performs very well for many globulars. Granted, I probably have better skies than you do. Also, M5 is low in the sky for us northerners, try some globulars closer to the zenith--you'll look through less atmosphere! M-13 and M-92 in Hercules are nicely placed.
And shield your telescope from any stray light nearby that might bounce around inside.
Here's a site of globulars for small telescopes:http://home.earthlink.net/~8-h-haggis/globulars/eyepiece-gcs.htm
Best of Luck!
Jerry K
|
Illinois
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 556
Loc: near Chicago, Illinois USA
|
|
M13, M15 and M22 look good in 6"! And you can see many globulars as faint as 12th mag in 6" but most would be like fuzzy ball!
M11 is really open cluster but it look very nice anyway!
--------------------
Astronomer since 1975!
Meade 16" Lightbridge Dobsonian
Orion 10" SkyQuest Classic Dobsonian
Tele Vue Eyepieces
Orion Expanse Wide-Field 6mm eyepiece
4.5" F5 Reflector since 1982!
Orion Narrowband and SkyGlow filters
Member of IDA, let's fight light pollution!
Old Edmund 6"F8...donated to cousins
Super Polaris C8...donated to Byron Observatory in Illinois
|
Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2096
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
|
Quote:
Can you recommend specific globulars for a 6" Newt in moderately light-polluted skies.
M5 is just about the best. I'm sure that you can resolve it at least partially in your 6-inch Newt unless your light pollution is really strong. The secrets are dark adaptation, averted vision, and above all, high magnification. Look for little pricks of light that appear and disappear as your eye plays over them.
M13 is roughly as easy to resolve as M5. M4 and M22 are both significantly easier to resolve -- especially M4 -- but they may be problematic if the light pollution is strong to your south, as they never get high above the horizon from mid-northern latitudes.
Obviously, as with all other objects, you want to observe things when they're nearly due south, and at their highest in the sky.
Oh yes -- also, it's easy to forget just how late you have to stay up before the sky gets fully dark. In Boston, astronomical twilight now lasts until 10:40 p.m.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
|
RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 818
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
|
|
I agree with Tony. M5 is spectacular in my area and your 6 inch should do a good job with it. It's loose enough you can resolve some of the stars, but still looks packed in the core. I looked at it last night and it has a very nice "3D" quality about it. Quite amazing, really. 
I would also suggest M3 for its brightness, but it's more of a dense mass.
Take care,
Ron
--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2 -- The New "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT
Ethos and Naglers
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
|
PeterSurma
member
Reged: 08/24/06
Posts: 84
Loc: Heidelberg, Germany
|
|
Hi Sue,
using a maglimit calculator
http://www.go.ednet.ns.ca/~larry/astro/maglimit.html
you can check your limits in seeing faint stars. The brightest stars in M13 e.g. are 12mag. Fainter Globulars typically also have fainter brightest stars. Gestimating your setup I'd say you can see 13.5mag stars under a 5mag sky, if your scope is well-collimated (collimating laser), your eyes are fully adapted to darkness AND your sky is really 5m or preferably better. You should also use pretty large magnifications depending on sizes 150x might be advisable to see the individual stars of M13 e.g. Hi powers get you close to the maglimit AND they dim down the bright sky with respect to the star, so faint stars tend to peak out more well then.
No matter what you'd like to observe, always look for the darkest skies you can get. Besides some passion in looking for not-so-evident stuff, this is the most important rule to follow. :-) Good Sky makes MUCH more difference than upgrading your scope by pretty large margins !
You might also want to try checking out some good eyepieces at a telescope meeting. They make a big difference too, and you can use them at any scope you ever gonna have...
Globulars tend to become what I'd call 'breathtaking' above 16" PLUS dark skies I'd say. Even in a C11 its not SUCH an overwhelming thing. But still even in 6" you should be able to see some stars resolved - not many though.
You might also turn your problem around, use the rather large field of view of your 6" (preferably with a low-power 2" eyepiece) and scan over all those tiny little GCs near the galactic center. Starting near Antares with M4... You will not resolve them but you'll see how many globulars there are so close to the galactic center. Some tiny but interesting ones are 6522+6526 in Sagittarius which are VERY close to the center in the so-called Baade's Window...
http://messier45.com/cgi-bin/dsdb/dsb.pl?ss=120908595465365&str=ngc+6522
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baade%27s_Window
Good luck + nice views,
Peter
Edited by PeterSurma (06/26/08 12:29 PM)
|
cildarith
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/26/04
Posts: 2121
Loc: San Diego, CA
|
|
Sue, as others have said, check your collimation; also get away from the light pollution if it is any way possible. It will make a world of difference.
--------------------
Eric
6" f/6 Parks Newtonian
10x50 Bushnell Binocs
CN Sketch Gallery
|
MaxTheHitman
super member
Reged: 12/11/07
Posts: 104
|
|
well there is always the open clusters M6 and M7... They are truely amazing and my favorite ones!!atleast you dont have to use averted vision to get a clear view !!!!!:)))).I agree with you sue I have the same telescope but F/5 .When I first saw M13 by luck manually! I was shocked even though I didn't see that much except this big fuzzy ball. Thats why I fly to open clusters such as the M41,M35,M36,M37,M44,M45!... I would recommed first finding the M6 and M7 they are the easiest.
--------------------
---------
6" acrhomatic refractor F/5
CG5-GT
|
lira
super member
Reged: 12/26/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Northeast, USA
|
|
Thank you, everyone, for sharing your thoughts and advice. The links are amazing, and all new to me. I'm printing this thread for immediate reference. I've digested every word and now have hope and direction. I look forward to the next clear night in Connecticut.
Sue
--------------------
Celestron 6" f/8 Dob Star Hopper
10x50 Nikon binoculars
Astro Chair
|
Bill Weir
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 892
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
|
|
Keep practicing. With time, practice, good seeing and higher magnification, you will eventually start to see more and more in many of the bigger and brighter globs. Most don't show you much no matter what sized scope you use. This is changing now, as the really big dobs are coming into play.
Look on this as a challenge. Years ago I started a small scope Globular Cluster Quest. This is using 6" of aperture and under. I have now logged close to 80 GCs with such. (the actual number I don't have in front of me. I've sort of run out of ones to look for from my latitude.
Soldier on. There is alot you can do with a 6" scope.
Bill
--------------------
6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar II ED Doublet
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want
Observing sessions grand total for 2007, 171.
So far in 2008, 115
|
Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 2096
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
|
|
Quote:
Well there is always the open clusters M6 and M7
M7 and M6 (in that order) are certainly amazing clusters, though they're too low in the sky for mid-northern observers to appreciate properly.
However, M7 is super-bright, coarse, and in your face, very much like the Pleiades. But it's not a rich cluster full of medium-faint stars, like M11 and M37. In fact, M7 is really too big to show well in a 6" f/8; it's at its best in binoculars and small telescopes. It's also very impressive naked-eye in a dark sky. And it's overwhelming when it's directly overhead, as viewed from the Southern Hemisphere.
Other rich clusters in the summer sky include M23 in Sagittarius and IC 4756 near the eastern Serpens/Ophiuchus border. For some reason, neither of these is especially famous, but I love them both.
--------------------
Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
|
F.Meiresonne
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 2956
Loc: Eeklo,Belgium
|
|
Quote:
Hello,
I was looking forward to globular star clusters; however, I fear that my 6" f/8 Newt will not offer breathtaking views of globulars. For instance, M5 remained a faint fuzzy through my telescope, not much different from the view through my 10X50s. I discovered the open cluster M11 last night (gorgeous!), and thought that it looked like my expectations of a globular.
Thus, my questions: Can you recommend specific globulars for a 6" Newt in moderately light-polluted skies, globulars that can be somewhat resolved? Or, can you recommend compact open clusters, like M11?
Thanks,
Sue
It's my experience that in moderately light pollution a 6 inch is too small unfortunately.
In M13 i could resolve some stars but it took severe averted vision.M15 some only on the best nights
A 8 inch is allready better but event then few are resolved.
I would advise at least a 10 incher and dark skies..then M13,M92,M15,M4,M22,M5 are pretty spectacular...
--------------------
Freddy Meiresonne
Obsession 18 inch #1638
Orion Optics 8 inch F/4.5 -1/8 wave optics -Vixen GP-E
20x80 Helios Stellar Binos
10x60 Helios Quantum 4(= Obie Mariner)
10x50 Helios Nature sport plus
8x40 Helios Nature sport plus
Eyepieces in use :Pan 35,24,19, N13T6, Pentax 10 XW, N9T6, Ultrascopic 7.5, TV2, baader ortho 12.5 and 9 mm
|
Olivier Biot
Amused
Reged: 04/25/05
Posts: 14328
Loc: 51°N (Belgium)
|
|
Quote:
A 8 inch is allready better but event then few are resolved.
I would advise at least a 10 incher and dark skies..then M13,M92,M15,M4,M22,M5 are pretty spectacular...
All of the above were resolved with my 8" f/10, and I do not consider myself a 'wintered' observer. I never tried them with a 6" though. What's important is to take the time to take in the view. Let your eyes adapt to the target, and let them explore the field of view for at least a couple minutes. You will be surprised by the amount of detail that pops up.
I sometimes observe globulars for 30 minutes or longer straight. I don't see the time flying by, but I am often treated with detail I never expected to see under my typically urban skies.
Cheers!
Olivier
--------------------
Tal-200K (#199) with JMI NGF-Mini2M focuser on GEM3 • Astro-Tech AT80ED on Orion Sirius EQ-G with EQDIR & home made wireless EQDIRECT • Celestron Regal LX 8x42 & 10x42 • Helios 15x70
ATM 14" f/5 (designing mirror cell and filter wheel/focuser) • ATM 10" f/6 Portable Truss (polishing) • ATM 10" f/25 Dall-Kirkham (primary: polishing, secondary: #120 grit)
AstroForecast
|
lira
super member
Reged: 12/26/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Northeast, USA
|
|
I really do enjoy the varied perspectives, experiences and philosophies on stargazing so generously shared on the Cloudy Nights forums. You've helped me develop a list of summer open star clusters to discover. And it seems that, regarding the globulars, I need to find darker skies and/or cultivate a patient, slower, meditative star-observing rhythm. A globular zone. Something to work on, with pleasure.
Sue
--------------------
Celestron 6" f/8 Dob Star Hopper
10x50 Nikon binoculars
Astro Chair
|
F.Meiresonne
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/22/03
Posts: 2956
Loc: Eeklo,Belgium
|
|
One thing you really can do with a 6 incher very well is stargazing open clusters. Thee are soooo many to see and indeed M11 is one of the spectacular ones. But make no mistake, there are many, many more
Cassiopeia is coming up soon, and there are many small cluster to explore there...
--------------------
Freddy Meiresonne
Obsession 18 inch #1638
Orion Optics 8 inch F/4.5 -1/8 wave optics -Vixen GP-E
20x80 Helios Stellar Binos
10x60 Helios Quantum 4(= Obie Mariner)
10x50 Helios Nature sport plus
8x40 Helios Nature sport plus
Eyepieces in use :Pan 35,24,19, N13T6, Pentax 10 XW, N9T6, Ultrascopic 7.5, TV2, baader ortho 12.5 and 9 mm
Edited by F.Meiresonne (06/26/08 04:49 PM)
|
mosdc61
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 510
|
|
Yep, Casseopia and Perseus have many; my favorite open clusters in all scopes are in Auriga, but you'll have to wait a little longer. The other thing I enjoy is just "walking" the milky way from Sagittarius to Cygnus.
|
RAKing
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 818
Loc: Clouds-ville, Virginia
|
|
Sue,
Another thing I would strongly suggest: Do NOT give up. 
Sometimes it takes few tries before you really begin to see the object. I kept going back to M83 a dozen times before the sky conditions and my growing experience with that object let me finally pick it out in the LP murk above Washington, DC.
If you are trying to spot something south of the celestial equator, you might have to look through a lot of light pollution, depending on where you live in the Northeast. IIRC, M7 is the lowest Messier, at -34 degrees 49 minutes and it might be a difficult target, especially if you have to look through the Megalopolis to see it.
I still feel your 6 inch is good enough to do the job, but it might take a while. Suburban sky conditions are never consistent. We get a few great nights and lots of not so great nights. On the great nights, go look for those fainter targets. Just be patient and stick to it.
Take care,
Ron
--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Orion XT10i / Moonlite CR2 -- The New "Time Machine"
"Hi Def" TV-102
C925-CF SCT
Ethos and Naglers
GM-8 GEM / A-P Portable Pier
|
lira
super member
Reged: 12/26/07
Posts: 125
Loc: Northeast, USA
|
|
Quote:
Sometimes it takes few tries before you really begin to see the object. I kept going back to M83 a dozen times before the sky conditions and my growing experience with that object let me finally pick it out in the LP murk above Washington, DC.
Ron,
Several have made this point today, and I find it fascinating. Some of the deep sky targets really do require a trained eye, I guess.
Thank you for the encouragement. I live in Connecticut in a suburban, bordering on urban, town. While the LP is rated high on the charts for this area, our place is set in a wooded space a bit away from major town/city lighting, and often the seeing is pretty good, considering. Western views, however, are always washed out.
Anyway, what I am saying is that I believe there is hope for some exciting discoveries with my 6". My Star Hopper has already exceeded my expectations, actually. I will never give up, yet I do understand that a 6" isn't a 12" or a 20" and there will be some limitations. That's okay. I will continue to ask CN for guidance along the way and enjoy the journey. I look forward to sharing my stargazing wisdom someday.
Sue
--------------------
Celestron 6" f/8 Dob Star Hopper
10x50 Nikon binoculars
Astro Chair
|
Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3720
Loc: Alabama, USA
|
|
It's clear you have either hazy skies, badly light polluted skies or both. I live in a fairly large city and from my front yard M-13, M-5 and M-3 shows lots of stars around the edges in my own 6-inch. Try a darker site on a better night, and while you're at it, take a look at M-4, M-22, M-10, M-12, and M-55. If you stay up until the wee hours of the morning, take a look at M-2 and M-15. All will resolve into stars at least partially in a good 6-inch from a good site. Most NGC globulars are cotton balls even in a 12-inch, or only show a graininess around the edges because of huge distances from us or heavy obscuration from interstellar dust. M-71 is a very dense open cluster, and there are scores of nice ones along the summer Milky Way. A very spectacular one is NGC-6231 in Scorpius. Another great open cluster with an dark nebula involved with it is NGC-6520 in Sagittarius. NGC-6819 in Cygnus along with M-39 are good open clusters to look at as well.
Taras
--------------------
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
|
MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1107
Loc: Redlands, CA
|
|
M24, a small but intense star cloud in Sagittarius, is my favorite "open" cluster with a 6" f/8. (M11 a close second). Although technically the stars are not closely related like an open cluster. Just a bright area of the Milky Way.
The stars just seem to be uncountable! The darker the skies, the better on this one. Here in the dry west under dark skies M24 has numerous dark nebula embedded. Also embedded is a small real cluster NGC 6603 which should not be confused with M24 itself.
M25 and M23 are nearby clusters that show interesting contrast. M25 has brighter stars and scattered distribution. M23 has dimmer stars of nearly uniform brightness. (Tony mentioned M23 already).
This time of year these 3 make a nice (sort-of horizontal line) with M24 in the middle, M23 on the right and M25 on the left.
They are visible in binos too if you wanted to scout ahead.
Good luck!
Mike
--------------------
16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32,25,20,15,11
13 Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
Brandon 32, 16
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
|
|
0 registered and 1 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: matt, Olivier Biot
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1091
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 