chuck56
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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I was in a nice dark location with my Orion XT10i and was trying to check out NRC6822. My chart saids its mag. 8.8
but I couldn't see it. Has anyone else had that problem.
Thanks..Chuck
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1073
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Barnard's Galaxy is a challenge object because of the low surface brightness. Much like M33 or M101 but worse. There is no obvious core like most galaxies and it is large due to its close distance.
The secret is to look for a "brightening" of the sky by moving the telescope back and forth a little bit. The eyes can pick up the motion of the object.
I have seen in a 6" scope in dark skies, so it is within reach.
Good luck!
Mike
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16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32mm,25mm,20mm,15mm,11mm
13mm Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
16mm Brandon, 32mm Brandon on the way
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
Edited by MikeRatcliff (07/07/08 07:20 PM)
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Thomas_N
member
Reged: 07/07/08
Posts: 25
Loc: Germany, Bavarian Forest
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Yeah, this one might be tough. My source says 9.3m overall brightness and 14.0m surface brightness. That is pretty low, since this galaxy has no bright core. See here. Most sightings I heard of were very difficult (except for one with a 16" Scope): indirect viewing, barely visible, low magnification.
Thomas
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 5706
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
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Although aperture isn't paramount (I've seen Barnard's Galaxy through a 114mm Newtonian), dark skies certainly don't hurt. A number of HII regions are visible through filtered scopes of sufficient aperture.
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap020123.html
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Achernar
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3562
Loc: Alabama, USA
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NGC-6822 has a very low surface brightness. There was only one time I ever saw it, and that was at the Okie-Tex Star party. In my 10-inch the galaxy was a large, faint oblong smear of light with little brightening towards the center. Even from the jet black skies of western Oklahoma, it doesn't jump out at you like many other galaxies I observed did.
Taras
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10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
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chuck56
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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I tried at idea of moving the scope back and forth a little
but had no luck. I guess I'll try it another day. According to the clear sky clock, seeing was pretty good (but we all know about the clear sky clock is never wrong.. Ha!Ha!Ha!)
Thanks guys for your input!
Chuck
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 442
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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I've seen this one in 14x70 binos. It does indeed have a low surface brightness, but it is sufficiently large that it can be seen using rather low power when the transparency is really good. And that's the key for most low surface brightness objects--clarity of sky.
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 6618
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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On one windy night at the Nebraska Star Party, we were passing around various binoculars to do comparisons. I did manage to see Barnard's Galaxy in a really good 10x50 pair, although it is somewhat easier in my 10x60's. Still, it has a rather low surface brightness and can be hard to notice initially. I can see some vague brightening in one end in my NexStar 9.25 inch SCT at around 78x, but for the most part, it appears as only a bar-shaped very diffuse glow rather than something well-defined. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
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Tony Flanders
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 1905
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Barnard's Galaxy is a challenge object because of the low surface brightness. Much like M33 or M101 but worse.
Barnard's Galaxy is much harder to see than M33 and M101 . With some practice and skill, M33 and M101 are both pretty easy to see from normal suburban skies. NGC 6822 is out of the question unless your skies are nearly pristine. Especially at mid-northern latitudes, where it's never far off the horizon. The problem isn't just overall low surface brightness but the fact that it's utterly lacking a central bright core. M101's core is small, but it does exist.
Barnard's Galaxy is to M101 as M101 is to M31.
On the other hand, M33, M101, and NGC 6822 are all physically quite large. So though dark skies are immensely important, aperture is not. If you can't see NGC 6822 through a 6-inch scope or 80-mm binoculars, extra aperture isn't likely to help a lot.
After you've mastered Barnard's Galaxy, try IC 1613 in Cetus. That's another notch down in the surface-brightness scale -- much harder than Barnard's Galaxy.
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Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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MikeRatcliff
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 1073
Loc: Redlands, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Barnard's Galaxy is a challenge object because of the low surface brightness. Much like M33 or M101 but worse.
Barnard's Galaxy is much harder to see than M33 and M101 .
I agree with that. The second time I had 6822 in sight (6"dob) was a small star party in pretty dark skies but not as good as N. California where I used to live.
Two other people looked through my telescope, and neither saw it. One was pretty sure I was insane. The other was more experienced, having finished the Messier list and halfway through the RASC Best 110. But still did not see it. I tried to describe exactly where, between what stars, move the scope, etc, but to no avail. Later on this person found and showed me the Crescent Nebula (Cygnus) in my scope! (Just a few pieces visible with filter). I think the problem is like Oakland: there is no "there" there. Just a brightening, and some edges where the brightening falls off. And much larger than expected.
I shudder to think what IC 1613 is like. Have not tried it.
Mike
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16" f/4.9 dob
Tele Vue Plossls 32mm,25mm,20mm,15mm,11mm
13mm Nagler T6
10.5 Pentax XL
16mm Brandon, 32mm Brandon on the way
12.5 UO ortho, 9 Circle T ortho
2x TV Barlow
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MessierScott
super member
Reged: 06/18/07
Posts: 180
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When you find 6822, be sure to go 40' to the NNW and check out planetary nebula NGC 6818. It's called the Little Gem. It's quite a little beauty! It has a nice light greenish tint to it as well.
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Scott Kranz
20-inch f/4.3 Starmaster w/Zambuto mirror, Feathertouch focuser, GO TO & tracking
7-inch Starmaster
H-alpha Coronado PST
Denkmeier II binoviewers w/24mm Panoptics
16x80 binos
Astronomical Society of Kansas City
Astronomical League Messier, Meteor, Sunspotter, & Asteroid Observing Programs Coordinator
ASKC Dark Sky Site
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sgottlieb
sage
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 232
Loc: SF Bay area
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As far as observing structure in NGC 6822 take a look at this article on Barnard's Galaxy by Rich Jakiel.
It covers everything from binocular observations to large scope challenges such as HII regions, OB associations and resolving the central bar.
Edited by sgottlieb (07/08/08 09:54 PM)
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tatarjj
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/20/04
Posts: 896
Loc: Auburn, AL
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While star hopping through the region last month in the Davis Mountains, NGC 6822 was visible through the 9x50 finder. Good luck (as in don't try) trying to see it under strong light pollution though.
Quote:
I shudder to think what IC 1613 is like. Have not tried it.
Surprisingly, IC 1613 seemed a bit tougher than Leo I, but it's been a while since I looked at it.
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John T.
Auburn, AL
25" f/4.2 Dob
18" Obsession #701
4" Stellar Vue Achromat
8X56 Binos
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MessierScott
super member
Reged: 06/18/07
Posts: 180
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Quote:
I shudder to think what IC 1613 is like. Have not tried it.
A dark sky is the key. Here is my log from November 2004 from our club's dark sky site using the 20-inch with a 22mm Nagler giving 114x and 42' field of view.
"Detect a distinct glow w/direct vision, but adverted vision brings out a huge amount of more detail. Larger than expected, spread out over a large area with a dark gap about a 1/3 of the way in from the east side. Round shape with no bright core. A quite bright star is a galaxy width to the N. 2 equally faint stars lie just off the west edge and just within the SW edge of the galaxy. 2 faint stars are embedded on the NE edge. A more mottled area is on the easterly side separated from the galaxy."
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Scott Kranz
20-inch f/4.3 Starmaster w/Zambuto mirror, Feathertouch focuser, GO TO & tracking
7-inch Starmaster
H-alpha Coronado PST
Denkmeier II binoviewers w/24mm Panoptics
16x80 binos
Astronomical Society of Kansas City
Astronomical League Messier, Meteor, Sunspotter, & Asteroid Observing Programs Coordinator
ASKC Dark Sky Site
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Mr. Bill
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/09/05
Posts: 2604
Loc: Just passing through.....
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I use 6822 as a transparency test during the summer....
Good view of it through both 120mm f/5 refractor and 10 inch at Golden State Star Party on the Fourth of July.
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Mr. Bill
10x50 Fujinon FMT-SX binos
15x70 AP binos + Paragon p-mount
Oberwerk 100BT 45 degree + Hercules fork mount
120mm f/5 Orion achromat + Moonlite focuser
140mm f/5.7 Vixen NeoAchro Petzvel refractor
150mm f/6.5 Antares achromat
150mm f/8 internal diagonal homemade achromat
8 inch newt with f/5 Swayze mirror
10 inch f/4.7 Orion newt + Paracorr
15 inch f/5 Discovery split tube
26mm Nagler, 17mm Nagler, 13mm Ethos, 8mm Ethos
Member IDA
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bicparker
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: Plano, TX
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Another trick to seeing low surface brightness local group galaxies like Barnard's Galaxy, Sextans A, et al, is to very, very slightly blur the focus once you are in the suspected field. This is akin to slightly jiggling the scope, but keeps a steadier image (I often do both as a confirmation).
We did this a lot at Texas Star Party this year since one of the Advanced list challenges was the Local Group. This was a great program and had a lot of excellent, challenging targets that brought some observing skills to bear.
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Bic Parker
17.5" f/5 dob
10" f/10 SCT
5" f/8 refractor
80mm f/6 refractor
66mm f/6 refractor
Plus a few others out of the rotation
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Alvin Huey
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/18/05
Posts: 1474
Loc: NorCal
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Quote:
As far as observing structure in NGC 6822 take a look at this article on Barnard's Galaxy by Rich Jakiel.
It covers everything from binocular observations to large scope challenges such as HII regions, OB associations and resolving the central bar.
Thanks Steve, I didn't see this article. I'll make notations on my charts and observe them the next new moon weekend.
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Clear Skies,
Alvin #26
22" f/4.1 reflector, Takahashi TOA-130S on AP1200GTO, 30" f/4.3 StarMaster and Antares 6" f/6.5 on Orion SVP
FaintFuzzies | TAC | TAC-Sac
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Tommy5
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/04
Posts: 1382
Loc: Chicagoland
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Hi chuck, how dark was your dark sky?,it might have been darker than say morraine valley,but i don't know if any location in northern il,is really dark maybe just dark grey.lol
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chuck56
super member
Reged: 01/21/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
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It was much darker than Morraine Valley. I would guess they were about mag 4 skies. Its about 50 miles west of Chicago. I was using 92X but I think the next time I'm going to drop the power down so to get more light.
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Crossen
member
Reged: 07/14/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Vienna
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NGC 6822 is one of those small RFT objects where you need to find just the right balance between power and aperture. I have observed it in 10x50s under moderately good sky conditions when it was only about 25° above the horizon (from central Minnesota). It's bar-shape was visible to averted vision. 7x is almost certainly too little, even with larger aperture, because the sky background would be insufficiently darkened. (I'd like to try it with 7x50s from the southern hemisphere, though!) I confirmed my original sighting of it by noting that it seemed located about 1/3 the way NNE from one 9th mag star to another (confirmed by my atlas). Those two stars are a good way of finding it.
The thrill of seeing N6822 is in what it is--and, if you are able to discern its bar-shape, you are actually seeing the structure of an external galaxy with a small instrument!
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sgottlieb
sage
Reged: 07/22/07
Posts: 232
Loc: SF Bay area
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Quote:
NGC 6822 is one of those small RFT objects where you need to find just the right balance between power and aperture. I have observed it in 10x50s under moderately good sky conditions when it was only about 25° above the horizon (from central Minnesota)
Is this Craig Crossen? Welcome to CloudyNights and I'm looking forward to your posts on binocular and small-scope astronomy.
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Steve Gottlieb
18" f/4.3 Starmaster
Adventures In Deep Space - New article on MASH planetaries
7500+ NGC/IC Visual Descriptions
NGC/IC Project
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Crossen
member
Reged: 07/14/08
Posts: 40
Loc: Vienna
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Thanks for the welcome, Steve. Professor EdZ has been at me for quite some time to register and join in. I guess one thing that held me back are that there a lot of equipment and large-instrument forums to which I would have very little to contribute: as you know from my books, I'm a Small-Is-Beautiful observer. NGC6822 is the perfect example of why my emphasis in observing has stayed on binocs and small RFTs: Who would have thought that such an exotic object could be seen in mere 10x50s!
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 1134
Loc: Cattaraugus Co., NY
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Hi, and welcome to Cloudy Nights.
Small and Beautiful is in my humble opinion a very valid reason to join in on CN. Every member has much to contribute to this forum no matter what their observing experience, personal preferences or types of equipment may be. I rather enjoy reading a post and reflecting upon my beginnings in astronomy or hearing about an observing trick that I may have forgotten or never heard of before. Many do not realize that they do indeed have something valuable to contribute and just lurk around reading and learning. Nothing wrong with doing that either.
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Ted
25" Tectron F/5 Original Naglers 9,13 & 20 mm T2, 30 mm Meade UWA, TV 32 mm Widefield , Ethos 25 mm
Orion 10x70 binoculars
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