Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Short Observation Report 7.12.2004
observation site: upon Amden, my favorite site of the near one, 70 minutes ride, altitude 1200m, snowy moutains everywhere to be seen
seeing: bad (steady wind)
darkness: about 6 (but not everywhere)
temperature: steady 3° C
humidity: quite dry
telescope: 12" f-5
used eyepieces: Pentax XL 40mm (38x), 21mm (71x), 14mm (107x), Radian 12mm (125x), Pentax XW 10mm (150x), Meade UWA 8.8mm (170x)
This one is short, because tomorrow I have a work-meeting in the afternoon and it's already 5.00 now.
I start observing at 0.50. I had planned to observe the galaxy NGC 520 in Pisces (and M74, M77 etc.), but once there I realize it is exactly at the brightest side of the sky. Pisces is hard to be seen. So I improvise.
(Funny: This is the only of my observation sites on which I always listen to classic music while the whole observing. On others I do not listen to music. Only in the breaks)
I move to galaxy M33 in Triangulum.
Already at 28x very impressive.
At 71x I see both spiral arms with direct vision - I think I have never seen them so clearly.
I try until 150x but 107x is best. Very impressive. Mighty spiral arms. Elegant.
NGC 604 (H lll Region in M33) very clearly to be seen. But NGC604 is detached from M33 - this means the view is not the best I have seen, because in a very good night NGC 604 is to be seen as a part of M33. Triangulum is too close to the brighter part of the sky.
With the picture in the book "The Night Sky's Observer's Guide" I try to identify more H lll regions. Detective work.
I discover NGC592, good to be seen with averted vision, sometimes even with direct vision.
NGC595 also with averted vision (AV).
At 71x I see NGC582 for the first time (with AV). Very faint.
I remember Carol having written yesterday there is a sweet spot in AV. I try to find mine. It is when I look at the right side of the object - from 2 o'clock to 4 o' clock.
Trying this I (re)discover now in the core of M33 a lot of faint stars.
I wonder what this is? I don't think I can see single stars at this distance. Very strong stars? Foreground stars - but... only in the core of M33? Can't explain it to myself. Maybe a more experienced astronomer can give me a hint?
all with AV:
IC143!! I get very happy!
IC 137 - imagine me jumping me around and clapping my hands of joy!
and even more:
IC135 near by a faint star.
Thank you very much, Carol!!!
I have been observing M33 for 40 minutes now.
At 1.30 I take a short break.
Go to globular cluster M79 in Lupus.
Seeing is too bad. Best at 107x - but not really a pleasure, stars not as points. Unclear.
Go shortly to Andromeda Galaxy M31 who's length fills the entire field of view at 38x (1,73°), probably more.
Visit small galaxy NGC404 called Mirach's Ghost (in And). I am very proud about this one, since I have discovered it on my own, without books (years ago). Already at 38x good to be seen with direct vision. Good it is still here...
At 1.55 I decide to look after galaxy NGC891 (in And). This is a galaxy I sometimes have difficulties to find. Today I find it immediatly.
And now a big big surprise: At 107x I discover with AV the dark lane of NGC891!!! For the very first time!
Also to be seen at 125x and at 150x - but the view of the galaxy gets unclear at this magnification. Best at 107x tonight. Smaller but clear. Happy!
Since I want to sneak to the Horsehead Nebula - one day, not already now - I go to Zeta Orionis and make another dicovery: NGC2024, the Flame Nebula! Never seen it with 8" - seeked it several times. Interesting form. I try with the Lumicon O lll filter - NGC 2024 disappears. The ICS UHC filter shows more - but less than without filter. Don't try any further. It is late.
Last: M1 in Taurus.
In my last observation night I had seen it change from a white cloud at 150x into a nervous picture at 200x with many unclear structures.
I try now at 170x - this is best: a quiet picture, structures to be seen. To be continued.
Packing.
Start trip home at 3.10.
Near home I hear the radio playing one of my favorite songs "Seven Seconds": Two words are in me: completely happy!
Amalia
Youssou N'Dour / Neneh Cherry - Seven Seconds Lyrics
Don`t see me from a distance
Don`t look at my smile
And think that I don`t know
What`s under and behind me
I don`t want you to look at me and think
What`s in you is in me
What`s in me is to help them
Nothing can move us we should be using
From the ones who practise wicked charms
For the son and the stone
Bad to he bone
Bad is not born but even
When it`s born
And when a child is born into this world
It has no concept
Of the tone of skin it`s living in
Chorus:
It`s not a second
7 seconds away
Just as long as I stay
I`ll be waiting
It`s not a second
7 seconds away
Just as long as I stay
I`ll be waiting
I`ll be waiting
I`ll be waiting
I assume the reasons that push
Us to change everything
I would like us to forget
About their colour
So they can be optimistic
Too many views on race
That make them desperate
Let`s leave the doors wide open
So they can talk
About their pain and joy
Then we can give them information
That will bring them together
7 seconds away
Just as long as I stay
I`ll be waiting
Chorus
I`ll be waiting
I`ll be waiting
And when a child is born into this world
It has no concept
Of the tone of skin it`s living in
And there`s a million voices
And there`s a million voices
To tell you what she should be thinking
So you better
Sober up for just a second
7 seconds away
Just as long as I stay
I`ll be waiting
Chorus
P.S. found a truer version of the lyrics
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Edited by Amalia (12/07/04 07:42 PM)
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half meter
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 12517
Loc: Great Lakes
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It doesn't get much better than completely happy
Averted vision will re-introduce you to every DSO you've already found. It's that much better. Hey, it's a lifetime hobby This new found power can be used anytime, not just with telescopes. It's very handy to use if your cats escape at night My sweeet spot is looking up and to the right just as you've described.
I'm looking forward to seeing the dust lane in NGC891 some day. Maybe right after seeing M1. I'll remember to try 100x and 170x as you recommended. Thanks for your report.
-------------------- Gary
Collins I3 (Thin Film) Image Intensifying Eyepiece
Coronado Maxscope DS 90 <0.5A w/BF30
152 mm f/8 TMB/A&M Carbon Fiber APO; f/5 with 4" Borg ED Field Flattener/Reducer
20" Obsession/OMI Mirror/Servocat/Argo Navis
First Light for the 30" Obsession at BEOTS!
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Hi Gary!
I used averted vision before - but in a more unconscious way, not knowing where the sweet spot is. Not even knowing there is one. They should write this in every book about astronomy!
Yesterday it seemed best when I moved my observing eye from 2 o' clock to 4 o' clock.
So my discoveries are based on at least three new factors: After six years of watching with a 8" I made the jump to 12" / I have doubled the amount of widefield eyepieces / I am more systematic (averted vision, even more patience, I collimate, better books and others).
The jump from 8" to 12" seemed in the very beginning not really big - not to be compared to the huge jump from 4.5" to 8" six years ago. But now I start to understand it.
Please do not take my experience as a rule - next time when I will observe M1 or NGC981 or others I will search again for the best magnification. I think it depends on many things. For instance NGC891 was not really in the very dark corner of the sky yesterday. My experiences do not correspond with the indicated magnifications in "The Night Sky's Observer's guide" - and I think the authors are really much more experienced astronomers.
When you read in my report about M33, you will see that after a while I switched from 107x to 71x. Something had changed by then. I don't know what. Maybe it was the moon rising soon.
I guess with 20" you will see the dust lane of NGC891 even with shades
Thank you for your nice answer!
Amalia
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Chris Graham
mmmm...Haggis
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 4869
Loc: Stirling, Scotland
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That was a great report, sounds like you had a lot of fun 
How long were you out for?
-------------------- -Skywatcher 8" Reflector on HEQ5 with Skyscan
-Orion ED80 Refractor
-70mm Guidescope/grab and go scope
-Canon EOS 350D
-Toucam Pro 2
Astronomy & Veggies
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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I really had, Chris!
Observation time 0.50 - 2.50 = 2 hours (only? it seemed much longer!) Total time 23.15 - 04.30 = 5 hours 15 minutes (plus 90 + minutes for writing and correcting the report)
It took me longer to drive home because of the possibility of ice on the highway (they usually start putting salt at 4 or 5 o' clock I guess).
Amalia
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djeber2
sage
   
Reged: 07/02/04
Posts: 493
Loc: Ohio
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sounds like you have a great observing location up in the mountains. Must be a very scenic location!!
-------------------- Don
1 Dob: Hardin DSH10
4 Small scopes: Celestron ED80, Meade 114NT/500 4.5", Orion 102 Mak, Orion 100mm Astroview
2 Classic Scopes: 4.25" Edmunds reflector, Sears 60mm Discovery
4 Binoculars: 15x70 Celestron skymaster, 10x42 Celestron Regal, 8x40 Nikon Action, 10x50 Orion Binoculars
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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It really is! 
I feel very well up there.
One day - maybe in the early morning - I will take a picture and show you!
Amalia
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Thick_asa_Planck
Dark Sky Hunter
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 3341
Loc: UK
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Great report as always Amalia - unfortunately the skies did not clear for me last night (the weather report was wrong... ), but it has been completely clear since about 10am this morning, and it's now 5pm, so i'm hoping it stays this way for a little longer!
I'm glad you are really happy after your viewing session - i just bought a scarf and gloves yesterday in preparation for the Geminids !
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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I hope you can get some happy making star light, Alex!
Look at this picture - it looks like a short time window for you.
Enjoy!
Amalia
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Thick_asa_Planck
Dark Sky Hunter
Reged: 09/04/04
Posts: 3341
Loc: UK
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Cool Amalia, which website do you use to check the weather? I would like to use a site such as the one you use where you can check cloud formation.
Your red dobsonian is great (i noticed it on the galleries), it looks really nice, and i've never seen a scope that colour before - what maunfacturer is it?
Clear Skies
Alex
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Jah, Jah. Now there's a happy camper! You may listen to music at this location because you feel safe. No need to keep your ears on for danger. Please do take a picture of your happy place! The thought of you dancing around upon discovery reminds me of my son. When we find something new, he dances around the yard, goes into the house, dances on the couch , shuffles around the living room, and comes back out to the yard. Happy, Happy, Happy. Love that feeling when he is happy.
John
Edited by JohnVS (12/07/04 03:21 PM)
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
Cool Amalia, which website do you use to check the weather? I would like to use a site such as the one you use where you can check cloud formation.
Your red dobsonian is great (i noticed it on the galleries), it looks really nice, and i've never seen a scope that colour before - what maunfacturer is it?
Clear Skies
Alex
Alex,
this is the site
http://www.meteoswiss.ch/en/Forecasts/Pictures/IndexPictures.shtml
but I am sure you will have one for your country. Have a look in the internet!
My dob is a GSO (Guang Sheng Optics, Taiwan) special edition with a pyrex mirror. I added some stuff as the DX-3 focuser, the heated eyepiece box, the weights.
They are sold in the USA as "Hardin".
I like the red colour!
In reality it looks even nicer (flash in the foto).
Amalia
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
Jah, Jah. Now there's a happy camper! You may listen to music at this location because you feel safe. No need to keep your ears on for danger. Please do take a picture of your happy place! The thought of you dancing around upon discovery reminds me of my son. When we find something new, he dances around the yard, goes into the house, dances on the couch , shuffles around the living room, and comes back out to the yard. Happy, Happy, Happy. Love that feeling when he is happy. John

It is just natural to dance around when happy!
Don't know about the photo - start new work tomorrow - maybe in the weekend - can't take picture in the night, must wait until the morning - I will surely post one!
Dance with your son! 
Amalia
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10955
Loc: Los Angeles
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I knew there was a reason I liked your posts: Youssou N'Dour. I have "The Lion" in my car's CD player right now. Along with an eclectic mix of other stuff. Until now, I was the only person I knew who had ever heard of him. I'm hoping for good weather coming up this weekend. Right now its:
-------------------- Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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He is quite wellknown here!
I hope your wish for good weather will become true, Don!
Tomorrow I start working - so less observing now. If I work good I will see stars in children's eyes.
Amalia
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10955
Loc: Los Angeles
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I have been a "guest lecturer" in 3rd and 6th grade classes here in Los Angeles for several years (that's 8 and 11 year olds). The 3rd grade children are so full of enthusiasm and are a joy to talk to. Every question is allowed because they don't yet "self-edit" their remarks before they make them. By the 6th grade, only a few in each class are still interested in science at all. Most students don't even look at the pictures or displays I bring, and the questions are fewer and indicate less enthusiasm for the subject matter. By that age, any interest in science and math is being discouraged by peer pressures ("only nerds are interested in science!") and teachers ("I don't know anything about science, so how can I teach it?") and budget cuts ("We don't have any money for any science experiments or displays.") It's really very sad that in those 3 short years almost everyones' curiosity about the Universe has been crushed beneath the "heels of indifference". It has been said the US is losing its science development to other nations. I believe it, for I have seen it first hand.
-------------------- Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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That's a short report.  Glad you can get your scope out. The weather has been awful here every night but one for the last month. Keep the reports coming. I wish more people would write about what they see. Maybe one day I'll write a report. As slow as I type it would take me hours! 
Roger
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Carol L
   
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 5880
Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
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You're welcome, Amalia! I'm glad you found your averted sweet spot.. it's amazing how much more can be detected. [Anyone here with an ophthalmological education? I'd love to find out why one area is more sensitive.]
Btw, the best view I've ever had of NGC2024 was last winter using my 22x100 binoculars... big and beautiful.
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*Step-by-Step Lunar Sketching*
CN Gallery
Photo Gallery
8"SCT ~ 120achro ~ 90Mak ~ 80ST ~ 11x70s ~ 22x100s
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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If that was a short observation report I wonder what a long one would be like. I love your excitement about the stars and love of life (I can tell). It’s contagious!
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
   
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10955
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
You're welcome, Amalia! I'm glad you found your averted sweet spot.. it's amazing how much more can be detected. [Anyone here with an ophthalmological education? I'd love to find out why one area is more sensitive.]
Btw, the best view I've ever had of NGC2024 was last winter using my 22x100 binoculars... big and beautiful.
There's an area of the eye which has high concentration of cones. It's called the fovea centralis, and it is this area we use the most for daytime viewing. Cones are not very sensitive to light, so they're excellent during the day, when light is abundant. There is an area near the f.c. where the blood vessels enter the retina, and the nerves leave the eye. There are no rods or cones in this area and we are effectively blind in that spot. On both sides of the f.c., excluding the blind spot, there is the highest concentration of rods (which we use in scotopic vision)and it is these areas that are most sensitive to light. It is these areas that most viewers have a "sweet spot" in their nighttime vision, and it requires a slightly "averted" view to concentrate the light on those spots. Graphs of counts of rods in the retina show that a lot of people have their peak concentration of rods just outside the blind spot, which is offset a little toward the nose from the center of the retina. That would mean looking slightly to the left of an object if you use the right eye (and to the right if you use your left eye). But this peak is not uniform in all individuals. It can lie to either side. Here is a test to find your most sensitive spot: focus your vision away from the object, and move your focus around the DSO in a circle. At some point on that circle, you will be able to see (obliquely, of course) the object better, and this is your "sweet spot". For me, a right-eye viewer, it is when I look to the right and slightly up from the object. This focuses the light to the OUTSIDE of my fovea centralis. My most sensitive retinal area is NOT offset toward my nose. So, experiment to find the right spot and employ it every time you view an object. It is with the combination of direct and oblique vision that we truly see all aspects of each object.
-------------------- Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie
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half meter
Postmaster
   
Reged: 05/05/04
Posts: 12517
Loc: Great Lakes
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Quote:
I'm glad you found your averted sweet spot.. it's amazing how much more can be detected. [Anyone here with an ophthalmological education? I'd love to find out why one area is more sensitive.]
Hi Carol!
I mentioned averted vision to my eye doctor a while ago, and she seemed startled "How do you know this?", she wondered, as she confirmed it was real. Moving the eyepiece image away from the center of best focus means we're shifting that light from the cones of our eyes, which are good for color vision, to the rods, which are much more sensitive to light (luminance) but not color.
I asked her why looking slightly up and to the right of objects was the "sweet spot". She said that was true only for the right eye. Looking slightly to the left of an object (with the right eye) puts the image on top of the optic nerve, which is a blind spot in the eye.
You can find your optic nerve this way: shut one eye, and put up your index finger at arm’s length, and stare at your finger. Keep staring at this position, and then move your finger slowly to the outside (to the right for your right eye, to the left for your left eye) about 7 inches. Your averted perception of your finger will "drop out" for about the width of one finger
Check this link out for a great description of the eye. Be sure to study the chart plotting number of rods per mm^2 vs. Perimetric angle and the picture of the eye above it -- notice the blind spot?
-------------------- Gary
Collins I3 (Thin Film) Image Intensifying Eyepiece
Coronado Maxscope DS 90 <0.5A w/BF30
152 mm f/8 TMB/A&M Carbon Fiber APO; f/5 with 4" Borg ED Field Flattener/Reducer
20" Obsession/OMI Mirror/Servocat/Argo Navis
First Light for the 30" Obsession at BEOTS!
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
   
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 6272
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
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Here's more on averted vision:
http://vegas.astronomynv.org/Tutorials/avertedvision.htm
http://www.noao.edu/outreach/nop/nophigh/eye.html
Dave Mitsky
-------------------- Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Excellent report! And yes, I can imagin you jumping about after such a find. 
boyd
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
I have been a "guest lecturer" in 3rd and 6th grade classes here in Los Angeles for several years (that's 8 and 11 year olds). The 3rd grade children are so full of enthusiasm and are a joy to talk to. Every question is allowed because they don't yet "self-edit" their remarks before they make them.
By the 6th grade, only a few in each class are still interested in science at all. Most students don't even look at the pictures or displays I bring, and the questions are fewer and indicate less enthusiasm for the subject matter. By that age, any interest in science and math is being discouraged by peer pressures ("only nerds are interested in science!") and teachers ("I don't know anything about science, so how can I teach it?") and budget cuts ("We don't have any money for any science experiments or displays.")
It's really very sad that in those 3 short years almost everyones' curiosity about the Universe has been crushed beneath the "heels of indifference".
It has been said the US is losing its science development to other nations. I believe it, for I have seen it first hand.
Well, Don,
I read your post before sleeping yesterday evening - and had to put it aside, because I had planned to teach two lessons of astronomy for 12 - 13 years old... Reading your post was not really encouraging!
My father (a very experienced teacher on all levels from 7 - 16 years old) phoned me this afternoon, to ask how things went, and we talked about your post.
He thinks this has a lot do with teaching in town.
But there is another aspect: Here we don't call this "science". In the first six classes it is called "Mensch und Umwelt" (kind of: human and environment).
He told me his astronomy lessons failed once in a class (in town), when he tried to teach it too technically (with a computer showing the orbits of the planets).
This morning I improvised. My material were some copies about the solar system. I knew I had to start near the kids. So after telling them we were talking about astronomy ("We have aaaaalready heard of this befoooore"...), I started explaning the difference between an eye and a small binocular. Kind of making them think: "I could try that, too!" Gathering light. Went on to the telescope. Told about my observing. Just telling, about cold and discoveries etc.
Then a move: Where are we? "On Earth" - What is next to us? ("Saturn!" ) What is a planet, a moon, a sun? What is the difference?
Then I wrote a simple definition of these three on the blackboard, always asking them.
Where does the universe (space) start?
Is the universe in your left nostril, Michelle? (name of a girl)
Giggles "No...".
In your right nostril then?
etc.
-> We are a part of the universe.
Going out to the corridor, showing earth gravity by letting fall a bancnote (money is always interesting - they will never forget 100 francs falling...)
Swinging a (smaller) pupil around me: gravity against centrifugal force.
Then: There are other planets around other suns - how do we know? Swinging around another pupil, holding his hand (when they are smaller, I let them fly around me) asking the others: Watch my head: moving or not?
Moving a little bit - so this is how we discover stars with planets! The star is shaking because of the planets gravity.
Then reading about earth and moon.
Then reading and very simple explaining about distances.
The speed of water coming out of a hose, the speed of sound (a teacher (standing at the finishing line) starting a 100m-race by a movement, not by a sound).
Then speed of light:
God goes to bed and puts off his little bed light, the sun - 8.3 minutes later the people on Earth are confused about darkness...
Moon mission having a problem.
Mars mission having a problem: "Earth, we got a problem!"
3 min later on earth
- Oh, they got a problem! "Mars from Earth. We are listening!"
3 min later, mars
"We have a hole in in the wall!"
3 min later, earth
"Use some tape!"
Laughing.
Same with longest distance earth to mars - and 20 minutes for comunications at speed of light... (!)
Two lessons already over - and kids who like me now - they told the other teacher!
It was more like a fairy tale than about science.
Here we talk about teaching in concentrical circles - starting close to the world they are used to.
My father is my pupil in astronomy - but this astronomy-teaching we developed together (well, most of it by him), by telling our experiences. Keeping the best ideas. Since summer I teached the same stuff in three classes - never the same, but always similar. Following their questions and coming back to the copies.
Next is a movie about the solar system. Maybe half of it - if they really are interested, then the whole movie.
Then a model of Sun (a football), Earth (2mm head of a color-needle) and Jupiter (a marble), walking the distance.
Where is the next star at this scale? (name of town)
After: What is most common (most often around) in the universe?
Do you know, Don? Tell me!
Amalia
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
That's a short report.
Glad you can get your scope out. The weather has been awful here every night but one for the last month. Keep the reports coming. I wish more people would write about what they see. Maybe one day I'll write a report. As slow as I type it would take me hours!
Roger
My other reports took me up to six hours - but it was fun to experience all this again at home!
Why not trying?
To type I use the "Eagle - Method":
Circle around above the keyboard - once you find the right character - hurry down!
Slow but effective!
Amalia
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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Quote:
If that was a short observation report I wonder what a long one would be like. I love your excitement about the stars and love of life (I can tell). It’s contagious!
Willie, well, it was intended as a short one - and it is shorter than the other three.
Thank you for your nice words! Let us know about your discoveries!
Amalia
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Amalia
   
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 5165
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