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In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope...

Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard, which has about mag.5 sky

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Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?

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Hi,

In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope. 1: Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard...?
2: Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
Thanks,
Nick T.

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We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession.

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Hi,

In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor...

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Personally, I find this un-interesting after a while. I will do three or four of these types of objects and then swing over to the Lagoon or a Messier globular, just to find something I can really see.

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In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope...

Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard, which has about mag.5 sky

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I'm sure that you can see most of the Herschel 400 from your backyard through that scope, though many of them will be pretty lackluster. But I'm quite confident that you won't see the very faintest of them. It should be possible -- though quite challenging -- from a truly dark site.

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Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?

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For starters, you could just sort the list by magnitude. Or you could undertake the RASC 110, which is a much shorter and more glamorous list.

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Thanks Tony, I downloaded the RASC 110 list, looks to be quite a fun list.

Nick T.

--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4

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Hi,

In a few months I'll be receiving a TEC110 refractor and was interested in observing the Herschel 400 list with this new scope. 1: Is this endeavour doable from my suburban backyard...?
2: Is there a best and brightest of Herschel list out there that might do more justice to this 110mm scope?
Thanks,
Nick T.

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Nick,

I would concentrate on the H400 star clusters and brighter objects. Log on
the Stellarvue Yahoo group and find the file "list041406" below. The file also has the page of the H400 object on S&T Sky Pocket Atlas.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Stellarvue/files/

Some DSOs, particularly galaxies, will be challenging. We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession. That H400 object is well placed now so you can see for yourself. I have my doubts if you could see all of them from the SF East Bay area or (Mt. Diablo).

I would also recommend Steve O'Meara's Herschel 400 Observing Guide which include a "difficulty scale".

Judging from your current scope list, you've come a long way from your 15" Obsession and Starmasters to refractor land.

Clears,
Renato

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Hi Renato,

Downloaded that list also, and I do have O'Meara's book and I'm reading it now. Yes I've gone from a 20" SM down to an SV 80mm and still have those other refractors, of those scopes the 80mm is the most used scope, for it's the easiest to set up and take down in a moments notice. Most of the time I only have about an hour to an hour and a half to do any observing, and after having a 20" scope I'm still impressed at what I can still see with my little 80mm.

Nick T.

--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4

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You may also want to have a look at Vic Menard's 400 List, which is a best of list that also includes binary and carbon stars.

http://x.astrogeek.org/observations/list.php?list_id=14

Dave Mitsky

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Hi Dave,

Great site, plus I like the fact that there are other lists on there also, those will definately keep me busy.

Thanks,

Nick T.

--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4

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We had difficulty finding NGC6118 at Lake Sonoma last month under mag 6 skies and decent seeing using a fine 14.5 Starmaster. Last year, we had no luck finding the same object at a "yellow" dark site SE of Livermore using an 18" Obsession.

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Odd! I found NGC 6118 quite challenging when I first located it through my 7-inch Dob from my country home in the yellow zone (SQM around 21.0, limiting magnitude typically between 6.0 and 6.5). Intermittently visible with averted vision, but always in the same location and at the same orientation, so a positive ID.

But in my 12.5-inch Dob from the same location, NGC 6118 is not especially hard to locate, and I can even hold it with direct vision.

Jay Reynolds Freeman claims to have seen it through his 55-mm refractor. But although I'm sure that he saw the overwhelming majority of the Herschel 400 through that scope, I have doubts about this particular observation and a couple of others.

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NGC 6118 was impossible to see, despite repeated attempts, using the 17" classical Cassegrain at the ASH Naylor Observatory and a friend's 20" classical Cassegrain at a private observatory with somewhat darker skies and that was back in the latter part of the mid-1990s when Naylor had a better VLM.

I finally logged NGC 6118 using an 8" Newtonian at Stellafane.

Dave Mitsky

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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.

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There is a big difference between "seeing" an object and "detecting" an object. If you are interested in pushing your scope and the best nights to their limits then 4 inches of aperture can "detect" many objects, but there will be little detail.

Personally, I find this un-interesting after a while. I will do three or four of these types of objects and then swing over to the Lagoon or a Messier globular, just to find something I can really see.

Clear skies to us all;
Steve Coe

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Hi Steve,

I understand what you mean and can see your point, yet I still enjoy the thrill and challenge of the hunt. BTW I've read your book on nebulas and have enjoyed it very much. I also like to observe dark nebulas (Bernard), do you or anyone else out there know of a link for a list of all the Bernard dark nebulas, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,

Nick T.

--------------------
Cornado Solarmax 60
SV80ED NHNG
Stellarvue SV127 APO
TEC 160FL APO
TEC 110FL APO (On order)
DM6 W/Sky Comander
DM4 " " "
G11 W/GoTo
EPs, Set of Zeiss orthos, some Naglers, Ethos, TV zoom 3-6, 2-4

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I find it totally uninteresting to check out bright objects that I've seen a billion times before. I do however get some little satisfaction in being able to detect objects with a little telescope that others say are impossible to see in a telescope 2-3 times the size.

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The folks w/12"+ stay busy teasing out faint galaxy arms

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If M51 counts for faint galaxy arms then I've managed to make them out using a 60/1000mm refractor with a Meade 14mm UWA eyepiece at 71x. From my notes:

July 12, 2009 NELM: 5.25mag skies (direct vision)
Seeing: 8/10 Transparency: 9/10

M51 & NGC 5195: 14mm UWA w/averted vision brought out the spiral structure of M51 and the bright core of NGC 5195. Amazing detail for such a small instrument!

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Clear skies,
Patrick

INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I

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For those of us who are not extremists, I think a nice mix of showpieces, faint fuzzies, "the hunt", the familiar, and the occasional planet or Moon provide a good variety of challenge and esthetics. Even including failures in the program helps sharpen the edges of success: not seeing something at all is hardly esthetic, but it teaches you the difference between observation and imagination; I think some do not work very hard at this.

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The folks w/12"+ stay busy teasing out faint galaxy arms

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If M51 counts for faint galaxy arms then I've managed to make them out using a 60/1000mm refractor with a Meade 14mm UWA eyepiece at 71x. From my notes:

July 12, 2009 NELM: 5.25mag skies (direct vision)
Seeing: 8/10 Transparency: 9/10

M51 & NGC 5195: 14mm UWA w/averted vision brought out the spiral structure of M51 and the bright core of NGC 5195. Amazing detail for such a small instrument!

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M51 to me in a small scope has never ever really shown much in the way of clear spiral arm structure. Oh, in a 60mm aperture, you can easily tell from the brightness profile that it *is* spiral, but the actual spiral structure doesn't really start to show up much until you get to around five or six inches of aperture (and even then, the spiral form is vague at best). Below five or six inches of aperture, you get a sort of "fuzzy ring" like formation around the brighter core. When I first saw M51 as a kid from a dark sky in my 2.4 inch f/11.7 refractor, all I could see was a fuzzy round patch of light with a smaller brighter distinct core region and the companion galaxy NGC 5195 sitting next to it. In a 90mm Mak-Cassegrain, with averted vision, I could just begin to see a little hint of a vague ring-like formation around the core, and by 4 inches, it looked like a mottled ring with maybe just a hint of structure to it. By eight inches, the spiral structure was fairly easy to see from a dark sky site, although tracing some of the arms was a little difficult at times. At 10 inches, some detail in the arms becomes visible, along with a little of the connection between the main galaxy and its companion. Most of us are very familiar with the nice pictures of M51 and know it is a spiral galaxy with some of the most distinct spiral structure of any galaxy available to the amateur. However, in a small aperture, one has to be a little careful to draw the line between what is actually seen and what might be due to a little "averted imagination". Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org

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Hi David, I understand about the averted imagination; however, this spiral structure was indeed there as clearly evident with my larger 120mm refractor. NGC 891 is really not much of a challenge to me either in a 60mm (I found it under the 1st quarter Moon) as that was the scope I first found it in. Plus, I even detected a dark dust band running through it even before I knew that this particular galaxy had that feature. Same thing with NGC 604, not a problem. NGC 3226 and 3227 are quite discernable as well. All of these galaxies were first detected with a 60mm telescope. The 13th mag star east of M57 is also pretty easy for me to see with slight averted vision. My current location allows me access to dark skies so I'm sure this helps.

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I have *detected* NGC 891 in a 60mm aperture, but it was so marginal that if I hadn't first found it in my 10 inch, I could easily have gone right past it without noting it at all (this was under a dark sky with *no* moon). NGC 891's dust lane in anything much smaller than a six or eight inch is probably wishful thinking (unless an image intensifier is used). Under a first quarter moon, the galaxy itself is nearly invisible even in a six inch. On M51 in my 4 inch refractor stopped down to 60mm at 75x, I can see a little vague large-scale mottling in the very faint outer haze, but again, no clear spiral arms or arm structure. In an NP101 at the Nebraska Star Party a number of years ago, I could get a little of the spiral structure, but the outer haze still was more a patchy ring-like formation than something with clearly-visible and distinct spiral arms. NGC 604 is not a problem in a small aperture, as it is fairly concentrated (a friend of mine's 12x50 binoculars will show it). However, a claim of clear spiral arm structure in M51 or the dust lane in NGC 891 being visible using only a 60mm aperture may (at least for me) be just a little bit hard to believe. Clear skies to you.

--------------------
David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org


Edited by David Knisely (07/17/09 02:31 AM)

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