David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Can anyone explain the difficulty I'm having picking off the Coma edge-on galaxy, NGC 4565? Authors of deep sky books such as Rod Mollise and Phil Harrington praise this object, comparing it to M51 and even claiming it's more spectacular. Well, I can see M51 easily, and some of the other NGC galaxies in Coma and Canes Venatici, but I can't seem to spot NGC 4565.
I'm using a CPC-1100 with Nagler 12mm, 17mm and 22mm eyepieces. I've even tried my 31mm Nagler and a DEnk II binoviewer with 24mm Panoptics, but with no success. I'm not much of a filter fan, except for OIII with planetaries, but I tried several different UHC filters. Nada! And each evening that goes by now, this part of the sky gets closer to the horizon.
What's going on? Any thoughts?
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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rocco13
Got Milk?
Reged: 07/29/06
Posts: 2648
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
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I've pulled in 4565 with my 4" refractor in dark skies, so a C11 should be no problem. Are you using GoTo and still don't see it? I can usually find it easily by starting at the edge of the cluster Mel 111 and inching eastward.
I wouldn't use a filter for any galaxy. The 22mm should frame it nicely, but I'd search for it with the 31.
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Rocco
Zhumell Z12
Super C8 (1984 vintage)
Celestron 102 f/5
and a cheap pair of binoculars
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Houdini
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/13/07
Posts: 524
Loc: Europe
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Forget the filters, 4565 is a bright galaxy that should be fairly easy in your CPC-1100. If you don't see it, you're probably looking at the wrong location.
Robert
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16" f/4.9 motorized alt-az, 25" f/5 Dobson, 43" f/4 alt-az under construction
Mirror Edge Support Calculator
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5025
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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You must be missing it somehow, because unless you're in the middle of a lot of light or air pollution, NGC-4565 is easily visible in even a small telescope. It does however require telescopes as large as yours to start unraveling the details in it's dust lane. Either your alignment is off or the sky conditions are working against you. Like all galaxies, NGC-4565 isn't going to amount to much, if anything at all through thin clouds or thick haze layers. Below is a drawing of how this galaxy looks through a small telescope, if you see an object like the one in the sketch, you've found it. Once you do find it, take a look at an even thinner edge on galaxy in Draco designated NGC-5907, which looks like it's namesake, the Splinter Galaxy.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8279
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Well, NGC 4565 is pretty low right now, so you will have better luck observing it in the early spring when it is high and nearly overhead. It is fairly easy to observe, but it is somewhat less prominent than M51. What you are looking for is a faint needle of light that is broader right in the middle. Like most galaxies, it requires a darker sky and good dark adaptation in order to be visible, but it is a pretty object. If your CPC 11 isn't putting objects within about 10 to 15 arc minutes of the center of your field of view, you should make certain that you do a proper alignment to get this level of performance before you try for NGC 4565 again. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Thanks for all helpful suggestions, guys.
My wife suggests that it's possible that the CPC-1100 "computer" has the wrong coordinates. After all, someone had to enter those manually into the memory system.
What I think I will do tonight is enter the coordinates manually and save them as a User Object. I know this part of the sky well, and have observed Mel 111 many times with my NP-127 refractor. Wow! So I'll come at NGC 4565 another way.
Great sketch, by the way.
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Hi, David;
You are probably right about NGC 4565's increasingly low position in the west. We also have what seems to be interminable twilight to contend with here at Latitude 49 north, so by the time astronomical twilight ends, Coma has all but set. Still, I can see other DSO's in Coma and Canes Venatici - - M3, M94, M53, M63, M106, NGC 4494, etc. - - with no difficulty. And I know my "go-to" system is working well because each of these and others popped up right in the middle of the FOV.
But I will try again tonight to look for this elusive object. If I don't succeed, using yours and other tips on this thread, then I'll just have to wait until late winter and start my search in the high eastern sky.
It will be there!
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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Bill Weir
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 1297
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
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Just be patient. A big problem I think you are having is that awful Vancouver light pollution.
Next spring, throw your dob into a car and head up Squamish way. That will put some mountains between you and that beast to the south. Heck, from up that way, your 127 would even do the trick nicely. If you do succed in finding it now you will think, "I wasted all that time for that?"
Also, it's a decent sized galaxy. If you use too much power at first, you might not notice it even if you are looking right at it.
Bill
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6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar ED II
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want
Observing sessions grand total for 2008, 121.
So far in 2009, 92
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 432
Loc: Maine
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Dave:
It's about 1 degree east of 4494 and a smidgen north. Should be star hopable from there, even driftable.
Jim
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Vixen 140 refractor
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Acheron
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/07/05
Posts: 776
Loc: Croatia, Velika Gorica
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This is my impression of NGC 4565 in 12" scope under mag 6.2 skies
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Thanks, Bill. That's a great idea. McDonald Park Dark Sky site near Chilliwack is another possibility.
My light pollution isn't too bad for an urban site, but it does take some of the visibility out of deep sky observing, even with a big CPC-1100.
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 636
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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Viewed this object with a 10" SCT and was easily seen at 104x. At 178x the object is even better. Central hub is pretty bright and diffused; arms easily detected also. Now bear in mind that it was not a "really bright" object. Using averted vision will greatly enhance the galaxy. Also note that I observe from a pretty dark site--out in the country wheatfield.
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Did someone say NGC 4565!!!????? 
As per my location line, NGC 4565 is my favorite galaxy in the sky..hands down. Unless you have yourself some nasty LP, you should be able to pick this object up easily in your CPC 1100. I know it's getting low right now so pending location, this could be a definite challenge right now. As others have said, I would wait until the spring to see this objects beauty.
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Olivier Biot
Amused
Reged: 04/25/05
Posts: 16344
Loc: 51°N (Belgium)
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I find NGC 4565 easier than M51. Probably because of the less dark skies in Belgium. But best is late winter / early spring when this showpiece climbs higher in the skies.
Take your time to take in this galaxy as it has lots to offer (at least to me  )
Cheers,
Olivier
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Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future. Niels Bohr
Tal-200K (#199) with JMI NGF-Mini2M focuser on GEM3 • Astro-Tech AT80ED • Orion Sirius EQ-G with wireless EQDIRECT • Astro-Tech Voyager • Celestron Regal LX 10x42 • Helios 15x70
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AstroForecast
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arpruss
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/23/08
Posts: 855
Loc: Waco, TX
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I've seen this near the edge of the red zone, at a site far from street lights with my 13", about a month ago. It was bright enough that I am pretty sure an 8" would have pulled it in, but I can't vouch for anything smaller. I rather liked it.
I remember that star hopping to it took me forever, mainly because I had a hard seeing the corner stars of Coma through my RDF clearly enough to match them with my chart (an optical finder, which I now have, would have helped). Finally I came across an asterism of some sort a couple of FOVs from the galaxy that matched my chart, and went from there. Once 4565 entered the field, it was super obvious. It was harder to hop to than M51, but made better viewing once found.
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Coulter Odyssey 13.1" split-tube
Coulter Odyssey 8"
Home-made 7.8" F/4 dobsonian travel scope
Home-made 68mm F/5.3 achro (typically used as finder on 13.1")
Skymaster 15x70
BPTs4 8x30
32mm Plossl, 30mm Rini, 27mm Kellner, 13mm Hyperion, 6mm TMB/BO Planetary, Owl 2X Barlow
Palm TX with AstroInfo and RescoViewer
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martini man
member
Reged: 12/07/06
Posts: 68
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I actually 'stumbled' upon this gem. I was test driving my new (at the time) 17mm Nagler and was checking out Mel 111. Coma was not quite overhead but far enough up and while just moving the scope around, it caught my eye.
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10" DSO Dob
30 mm GSO Superview
Rigel Quickfinder
Whats this EP with green print on it? Nagler something?
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RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2083
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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I've pulled in 4565 from my backyard with an Orion 8 inch Newt. Based on everything I read in the books, I was expecting to get clobbered with it, but it's not as bright as I expected.  My 10 inch Dob does much better and your CPC1100 should show it very well.
I consider it on par with NGC5866, another nice edge on galaxy that can be faint under marginal sky conditions.
I usually stay below 120x for galaxy hunting. Faint "smudges" don't show me any more detail at high power. Lower power shows more sky and can help with better contrast.
Keep trying. It doesn't matter how you find it, it's worth a look.
Ron
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Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.
Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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As I mentioned earlier with this being my favorite galaxy in the sky..
you really need to check out this galaxy in dark skies to see its full beauty. This galaxy is a HUGE edge on and shows a striking dust lane almost the entire length of the galaxy. It appears as a very large narrow ( or needle like ) bright streak with a very bright central hub and a prominent dust lane through the center.
With good favorable sky conditions,I've caught this galaxy from home in my moderately LP skies in as small as my 4.5" scope with no problem. In my 8" it was quite easy. The 8" at my local dark sky site really makes it shine and with the right power it stretches across the entire field. In the 14" at our local dark sky site, its jaw dropping.
I would love to see this galaxy in a 30"+ scope.
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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David A Rodger
sage
Reged: 08/12/03
Posts: 444
Loc: North Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Thanks, Dain, and everyone else who provided such useful tips on seeing NGC 4565. I'm sure low altitude and twilight have been the co-conspirators. I certainly have no trouble seeing the galaxies in Coma and Canes Venatici that are currently higher in the sky. So I will put aside my search for now and try again this winter, when that region of the sky is rising in the east.
I should point out that my observatory is so located that I have NO southern sky. I can see everything from the northwest through north to northeast - - which is why I have to catch NGC 4565 and its neighbours when they are rising or setting. I can't see them when they culminate because a building blocks my view (our 3-storey townhouse!). Okay, okay, so I'm lazy. As Bill said, I can just throw my telescope in the car and go to a dark site. Maybe I'll do that, although this eliminates three prerequisites I have - - comfort, convenience and security. I have all three at home, with the disadvantages of no southern sky, and city light pollution.
Ironically, when all this was going on, I noted that NGC 4565 is featured on the cover of the current issue of SkyNews magazine, and there's a good section on it, in SkyWatch, published by Sky & Telescope. This galaxy is thumbing its nose at me!
DAR
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Sky-Watcher 10-inch Dob
Orion 100mm ED and EON 120 refractors
Tele Vue NP-127 refractor
Celestron CPC 1100 SCT
Celestron Classic C-8
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Doug Brown
sage
Reged: 02/24/06
Posts: 409
Loc: Fort Worth
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Quote:
As I mentioned earlier with this being my favorite galaxy in the sky..
you really need to check out this galaxy in dark skies to see its full beauty. This galaxy is a HUGE edge on and shows a striking dust lane almost the entire length of the galaxy. It appears as a very large narrow ( or needle like ) bright streak with a very bright central hub and a prominent dust lane through the center.
With good favorable sky conditions,I've caught this galaxy from home in my moderately LP skies in as small as my 4.5" scope with no problem. In my 8" it was quite easy. The 8" at my local dark sky site really makes it shine and with the right power it stretches across the entire field. In the 14" at our local dark sky site, its jaw dropping.
I would love to see this galaxy in a 30"+ scope.
Clear Skies to All!
I have seen this one with a 30 and it was amazing to say the least, there is another edge on galaxy just under it so as to make it and 4564 look like a T. With a 30 it was not hard to see the smaller one but I have not seen it and not been looking with 25 or more in apt.
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Doug Brown
Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too truly to be fearfull of the night. ---Sarah Williams, 1868
10” Mead converted to Dob
Broken 20 x 70’s
7 x 50’s
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Doug Brown
sage
Reged: 02/24/06
Posts: 409
Loc: Fort Worth
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4565 not 4564 my bad
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Doug Brown
Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
I have loved the stars too truly to be fearfull of the night. ---Sarah Williams, 1868
10” Mead converted to Dob
Broken 20 x 70’s
7 x 50’s
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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You might have better luck with NGC 5907 in Draco due to location. I want to say I know its elevation right now and such but i cant with certainty.
What I can say - it is CERTAINLY and excellent edge on galaxy. In my 8" its abotu as thin and long as any galaxy can get. Too, it takes magnification well and will even allow me to zoom in on its core at 200x. Its faint at first that high, but give it a little moment - the light comes subtely in. The downside is that it doesnt have that wonderful dustlane thats so easily visible in 4565. It has one - its just not situated exactly in the center.
You'd be surprised how many folks at star parties dont know about it.
I found it by the way by perusing atlases and tables for really THIN galaxies. I wanted to see a classic edge on span of light. Lynx has a nice galaxy in this respect but 5907 just has more span and as a result is thinner. I was finding too many galaxies rom my 6th mag site were odften looking boxy or oval because i was only getting the central brighter regions. Again, 5907 lays it all out in this wonderful milky faint thin light. As previously mentioned, it takes mag well so you can get this in-your-face effect from it.
Pete
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