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Can't wait till next time when I will use the focal reducer.

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Good idea!

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Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
SVP/ED80
WO 66 Petzval
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals




History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides

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I saw the Veil nebula this year in a green zone. 12" dob, at x120 the segment on the bright stars side was visible rather easily, and the bright large arc on the opposite side was obvious and direct vision, with some detail at x50.
Pickering's triangle wasn't visible though, but possibly would have been had I starhopped better.

The conditions were not only green quality skies and massive amounts of dew, but also the sky conditions had probably worsened a lot, since there were new streetlights out everywhere, and even though I had built shades, I got glared occasionally.

Moral of this story, the veil doesn't require any filtration nor pristine skies to be visible.

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No, but an OIII filter can *really* help make it a lot easier to see. I have seen the main arc (NGC 6992) with a pair of unfiltered 10x50 binoculars from a modestly dark site (ZLM 6.5 or so). However, the OIII filter makes both strands stand out really well. Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org


Edited by David Knisely (08/31/09 06:05 PM)

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I have observed the Veil nebula with five different instruments, ranging from a C11 with UHC-filter (it was specacular, even from the well-illuminated Belgium) up to a 46 cm Dobson and 52 cm f5.3 in the south of France.
A 20 cm scope really is too small to get the 'waaaww'-feeling. The C11 on the contrary already gave way more pleasure. Just get out there and enjoy !!
For those who are having doubts, attachement to give you an idea of what to expect.

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Well, I can't really agree that a 20cm scope is too small to get that "wow" effect. I have seen dramatic views with the OIII filter on an old six inch (15cm) f/8 Newtonian (an RV-6 from the 1960's), where much of the fine filamentary detail was visible. Without the filter in that same scope, all one could see was a vague dim brightening arcing across the field, so the filter really made the difference. One of the better views of the Veil with the OIII came a few weeks ago in Lamb0's 8 inch f/5 using a 20mm Nagler (1.5 degree true field of view at 51x). Then, it was just a quick move to go from one arc to the other. Of course, larger apertures show more (try a 20 inch if you want to get blown away), but even some relatively modest scopes can still show a lot in the Veil *if* one uses the OIII filter. Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org

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Glad to read that other people could enjoy the nebula with smaller aperture scopes. Congrats. I'll try it as a challenge, but from a darker place.

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Is any one brand superior to the others? Sounds like the 12.5" scope and filter should give me a pretty good look at the veil.

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I had the chance to compare the view of the Veil through both a Lumicon and the Baader last month in my scope and FWIW, I'm ordering the Baader. The Baader OIII seemed to have better contrast to me.

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Rob E.
Some of us are actually paid to be funny.
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Zhumell 16"
Orion 120ST
Orion Starmax 127
Baader Planetarium Hyperions
Zhumell SWA EP's
There's two ways to do anything...right and twice

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The results: Excellent views of the North America, Pelican and Veil Nebulae, in fact the first view I'd ever managed to have of any of these objects. I could see all three major parts of the Veil with no difficulty.

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A filtered short fast refractor is great for seeing all 3 components of the Veil in one FOV. I've enjoyed this view many times with my old 100mm f/6 achromat and a 35 Pan.

You don't get the details in the nebulosity that you'd get with a larger scope but sometimes it's just nice to see the physical relationship of the components and to grasp the true size of the complex.

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I've also had good views of those nebulae (including the entire Veil Nebula complex) from dark sites with my filtered 80mm f/5 ShortTube 80 and 80mm f/7.5 Vixen ED80Sf. My 101mm f/5.4 Tele Vue produces a larger true field of view than either of the 80mm refractors and a somewhat brighter view.

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Ive read - forgot where - that the Veil "prefers" the UHC, but my OIII was never told that and the views are just dynamite. When I finally got the UHC I used it and compared it to the OIII view and while the sky is a little darker in OIII I really didnt see any difference. IT could be there to be sure, the veil is huge, but the cursary try I gave it yielded and ideantical view with again, the darker sky going to the OIII. The same happened with M97. I loved it through my OIII then I read [again] nope - the OWL prefers a UHC... so I use it. Nothing different. Looked good in UHC to be sure, but the OIII was hard hitting too.

Now that I've thrown in the OWL here - I will say, I had no idea how hard the eyes were to see until I got a good look with a large dob. I didnt feel so bad with my view after that.

Pete

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I think that it is pretty much accepted that the best filter for the Veil is the OIII filter. The narrowband filters work fairly well on it, but they just don't seem to provide that extra boost in contrast that the OIII does. Still, in my 9.25 inch SCT at 58x, the DGM Optics NPB did give my OIII filter a run for its money on the Veil. Clear skies to you.

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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org

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I think that it is pretty much accepted that the best filter for the Veil is the OIII filter.

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Since many on this thread have mentioned that the Veil can be seen in larger instruments, I'll give it a try with my 10" Newt. The big problem with larger scopes is the smaller field of view, which really doesn't do justice to these big, low-surface-brightness objects.

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I have observed the Veil nebula with five different instruments, ranging from a C11 with UHC-filter (it was specacular, even from the well-illuminated Belgium) up to a 46 cm Dobson and 52 cm f5.3 in the south of France.
A 20 cm scope really is too small to get the 'waaaww'-feeling.

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Ive seen the Veil from my 70mm refractor on up to a 20" reflector. I own an 8" newt. While the views through scopes in the mega-size class are certainly worth their salt, the 8" views Ive had through filter[s] is just utterly phenomenal. The ghostly splendor of the glowing streamers of the shell is just about as good as deepsky gets. Even the little 70mm with an OIII has its place in that it shows this wonderful [ha ha] "birdseye" view of the area that clearly makes up for the lack of detail within the gases itself. Back to the 8" though - with a filter, be it UHC or OIII it is simply awe inspiring.

What I envy about the larger apertures is the detail in the "shreds" of the veil. That is something to behold to be sure. It'll turn the most astronomy-disinterested into state of wonder on the spot.

I know where you're going and why you might feel like that, Ive just seen too much in that neb with my 8" over the years to agree. If you were comparing say, a 3" view of the whirlpool galaxy to an 11" view - well there you go. But even then I'd have to say "yeah but" those arms look dynamit in my 8 too.

The 8" is an interesting threshold aperture in that for the human eye, it "usually" shows appreciable detail in a great many things. Not ALWAYS the best, but often at a level that atleast has a strong foothold on detail. Larger aperture takes it that much farther, but usually, 8 still has you in the arena. Naturally, I'm not talking about digging up 16th magnitude galaxies.

Pete

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Neither can i. Last year in the Provence in my 8 inch the Veil was just stunning.
This year even better but an 8 inch with OIII surely gives a wow.
Also the OIII is THE filter to use on the Veil and gives better views then an UHC filter.

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Isn't it cool how that streamer just off 52cygni comes to this SHARP point? It wavers here and there with how I look at it, but man, there are moments it just lays there like this sharp, distinct sliver just jutting out like that into space.

Then theres that little leap across space and the cascade of the other arc just spans across the field. Whats neat is, the interesting parts hold up to magnification well so that while it will dim out to a degree and youll see a narrow portion, it does break down into it respective shreds and zones nicely. Sometimes I find, its not that I CANT see the bigger scope views, its just that it requires different technique and it can be had in smaller portions. The bigger scope always wins, but technique is a nice back-door at times.

Pete

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Dave,

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I've also had good views of those nebulae (including the entire Veil Nebula complex) from dark sites with my filtered 80mm f/5 ShortTube 80 and 80mm f/7.5 Vixen ED80Sf. My 101mm f/5.4 Tele Vue produces a larger true field of view than either of the 80mm refractors and a somewhat brighter view.

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I had a 6 degree true field of view in my ST80 with a 30mm 80 degree AFOV 2" eyepiece. What was the TFOV in the TV 101? By the way, the flatness of the field in the ST80 impressed me, since I am used to the coma seen in a wide field view through a 10" f/4.7 Newt.

Mike

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Mike,

My ST80 has a 1.25" focuser so the TFOV with the longest focal length 1.25" that I currently own, a 30mm Celestron Ultima, is approximately 3.7 degrees.

My Tele Vue refractor produces a 4.4 degree TFOV with my 35mm Tele Vue Panoptic.

Dave Mitsky

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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.

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My ST80 has a 1.25" focuser so the TFOV with the longest focal length 1.25" that I currently own, a 30mm Celestron Ultima, is approximately 3.7 degrees.

My Tele Vue refractor produces a 4.4 degree TFOV with my 35mm Tele Vue Panoptic.

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