auriga
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 794
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Hi, all,
A few nights ago I tried for 891 in a mag 5 sky with a bit of haze perhaps but no clouds. The Milky Way was dimly visible. I found that NGC 891 was visible as a huge long shadow of almost nothing. It intersected horizontally a vertical line of three stars. I used a 16 inch Dob and an 8 Ethos with Paracorr, giving about 225x. 891 ran across most of the field of view. The view was confirmed by another observer, my friend Mathias, or I would have doubted that I really saw it.
I have seen photos and so I know it is quite beautiful but I find it surpringly fainta especially since I used a large scope..
Has anyone else reported difficulty seeing this huge faint galaxy?
Bill
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8273
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Hi, all,
A few nights ago I tried for 891 in a mag 5 sky with a bit of haze perhaps but no clouds. The Milky Way was dimly visible. I found that NGC 891 was visible as a huge long shadow of almost nothing. It intersected horizontally a vertical line of three stars. I used a 16 inch Dob and an 8 Ethos with Paracorr, giving about 225x. 891 ran across most of the field of view. The view was confirmed by another observer, my friend Mathias, or I would have doubted that I really saw it.
I have seen photos and so I know it is quite beautiful but I find it surpringly fainta especially since I used a large scope..
Has anyone else reported difficulty seeing this huge faint galaxy?
Bill
I don't usually have much trouble seeing it when it is nearly overhead from my dark sky site (ZLM 6.0 to 6.7) in my 9.25 inch f/10 SCT. It is quite faint with a very low surface brightness, but with averted vision, I can often see the famous long dark lane down the middle. From my home (ZLM 5.5), it is much harder, although it is still visible when I use my Lumicon Deep-sky filter and keep the power fairly low. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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Jeremy Perez
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 1930
Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona, USA
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Hi Bill,
These are my notes on NGC 891 using an 8 inch f/5.9 Dobsonian at 120X with a Pentax XW10 eyepiece under approx. Mag 6 skies with incidental, reflected light pollution bouncing off nearby houses:
Quote:
This large, edge-on galaxy is no friend of man-made light sources. It was not difficult to find, but was still rather subtle from my back yard. It appeared as a slender, soft brightening of the sky and shared space with one rather distracting star. This star was located on the west side of the north spine of the galaxy. The glow from the star overpowered the galaxy on the north side enough to make it look lopsided at a glance--like the south spine was bulkier. Perhaps when observing from a darker site, the galaxy's luminosity would be able to hold its own against the background sky glow and that star would not seem to interfere as much. Another faint star marked the southwest tip of the galaxy's profile.
I analyzed the field for some time, to see if I could detect the central dust lane, but only got a couple fleeting hints of it. I wasn't confident enough in those glimpses to record it in the sketch. Once again, a darker sky would probably help in that effort. The galaxy appeared to be about 15 x 2 arc minutes in size and aligned at a PA of about 40 degrees. That doesn't match well with the published value of 22 degrees--it looks like I marked my west point a bit further clockwise than it actually was.
And the sketch:
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Orion SVP 6LT (6" f/8 Newt) || Orion XT8 (8" f/5.9 Dob) || 15x70 Oberwerk Binoculars || Coronado PST
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rocco13
Got Milk?
Reged: 07/29/06
Posts: 2643
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
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This object, more than any other, has given me fits. According to the statistics, it should be visible in my scopes here at home on the edge of the 'burbs. But even the slightest amount of light pollution makes it invisible, in my experience. In dark skies, unless the transparency is really good, it is still 'ghostly' at best. Under good conditions, the dust lane was directly visible in my 15" dob, but other times it was only seen with averted vision.
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Rocco
Zhumell Z12
Super C8 (1984 vintage)
Celestron 102 f/5
and a cheap pair of binoculars
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3461
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Good for you! Seeing NGC 891 in a mag-5 sky is no mean feat -- even through a 16-inch scope. This galaxy has quite low surface brightness. However, it's really quite glorious -- one of the best -- when viewed with averted vision from a dark site.
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Tony Flanders
First and foremost observing love: naked eye.
Second, binoculars.
Last but not least, telescopes.
And I sometimes dabble with cameras.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 5024
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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This galaxy is a ghost because of it's light being spread over a large area. Large telescopes are not what's necessary to see NGC-891, it's dark and clear skies that are more important given that it can be seen with a 6-inch from a dark site. From the usual sites I have access to, NGC-891 is a difficult object for my 10-inch, but it's no where near as hard to see as the likes of NGC-147 and NGC-7640 in Andromeda, NGC-247 in Cetus or NGC-6822 in Sagittarius are. Generally speaking, if you can detect this galaxy, you have a pretty observing good site and sky conditions.
Taras
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15-inch F/4.5 Dob under construction
10-inch F/4.5 Discovery Dob
6-inch F/8 Homebuilt Dob
4 1/4-inch F/4 Homebuilt reflector
A whole bunch of eyepieces, filters and other accessories....
Two curious cats
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auriga
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 794
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Quote:
This galaxy is a ghost because of it's light being spread over a large area. Large telescopes are not what's necessary to see NGC-891, it's dark and clear skies that are more important given that it can be seen with a 6-inch from a dark site. From the usual sites I have access to, NGC-891 is a difficult object for my 10-inch, but it's no where near as hard to see as the likes of NGC-147 and NGC-7640 in Andromeda, NGC-247 in Cetus or NGC-6822 in Sagittarius are. Generally speaking, if you can detect this galaxy, you have a pretty observing good site and sky conditions.
Taras
Thanks everyone for your observations and experiences with 891, and your excellent sketches, very helpful in putting my experience in perspective. What I saw is very similar to the sketches, which tempts me to try sketching myself, I like the results you have achieved.
NGC 404 by comparison was bright in the 16" which tells me again how different galaxies are from each other.
It occurs to me that 225x may have been too high a power for NGC 891. I had just been looking at MGC 404, which is so much brighter, at that power and I simply switched over to 891 without thinking too much about it.
In regard to NGC 6822, I have seen it fairly easily from a mag 7 site at the Shingletown Star Party (nowadays, the Golden State Star Party) in California, in a 16 inch. Since 6822 is said to be harder to see than NGC 891, this tells me again the value of really dark skies.
Bill
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Starman1
Vendor - Scope City
Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 12220
Loc: Los Angeles
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Quote:
Quote:
This galaxy is a ghost because of it's light being spread over a large area. Large telescopes are not what's necessary to see NGC-891, it's dark and clear skies that are more important given that it can be seen with a 6-inch from a dark site. From the usual sites I have access to, NGC-891 is a difficult object for my 10-inch, but it's no where near as hard to see as the likes of NGC-147 and NGC-7640 in Andromeda, NGC-247 in Cetus or NGC-6822 in Sagittarius are. Generally speaking, if you can detect this galaxy, you have a pretty observing good site and sky conditions.
Taras
Thanks everyone for your observations and experiences with 891, and your excellent sketches, very helpful in putting my experience in perspective. What I saw is very similar to the sketches, which tempts me to try sketching myself, I like the results you have achieved.
NGC 404 by comparison was bright in the 16" which tells me again how different galaxies are from each other.
It occurs to me that 225x may have been too high a power for NGC 891. I had just been looking at MGC 404, which is so much brighter, at that power and I simply switched over to 891 without thinking too much about it.
In regard to NGC 6822, I have seen it fairly easily from a mag 7 site at the Shingletown Star Party (nowadays, the Golden State Star Party) in California, in a 16 inch. Since 6822 is said to be harder to see than NGC 891, this tells me again the value of really dark skies.
Bill
891 hard in a 16"? Oof! Bright skies. In dark skies it's visible in 3-4". And my 12.5" in dark skies not only shows the lane, but also a horde of knots along the body of the galaxy. What really sets 891 apart from a lot of other edge-ons is the rich Milky Way field it sits in.
Paradoxically, 6822 is easy in a 4" f/6 and hard in a 10" SCT. It is easiest with wide fields that show contrasts the best. I've heard of it being seen in 10x50 binoculars (I haven't tried), but a lot of observers have a hard time. I think the skies need to be dark, you need to use low powers, and you need to know what to expect. Once you see what it looks like, it'll be viewable in a much smaller aperture. That's a good rule for 891, too. I had to hunt for the Horsehead with my 12.5" when I first sought it out, and I was using an H-Beta filter. Now that I know both where it is and what to expect in terms of size and brightness, I see it instantly, even without a filter.
In a sense, each observer recapitulates the discovery of each DSOwhen viewing an object for the first time, when you think of it, and each of the objects we view was discovered with larger scopes in darker skies (that is, I realize, a generalization). The Veil nebula was once thought to be a large scope or photographic object, but has been seen with the naked eye plus O-III filter. It always takes a larger aperture to discover something than it does to see it later. Read some of the amazing posts of veteran observers who've traveled the world with 60-80mm refractors. Some of the objects observed are hard with 10"+!
When seeking fairly big objects, try not to exceed 10x/inch of aperture. Once you find the objects, try whatever power suits your fancy.
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Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov, Fujinon Binos
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member
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Bill Weir
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/01/04
Posts: 1297
Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
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I think you hit the nail on the head with your decision on magnification, although it's not so much the mag but the FOV. I've found that with objects of low surface brightness, adding a little more space around the object helps them stand out.
From a site at 7000', and a SQM reading of 21.65 I've spotted this galaxy with my ED80.
Bill
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6'' Orion SkyQuest
12.5'' f/5 Custom Truss Dob
William Optics 80mm ZenithStar ED II
f/5 25" newtonian on a giant GEM, any time I want
Observing sessions grand total for 2008, 121.
So far in 2009, 92
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Cygnus_x1
Sketcher Extraordinaire
Reged: 11/17/04
Posts: 2385
Loc: 50N - too far north!
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Here's mine, from 2005, sorry about poor quality pic:
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Visual Deep Sky Observing - being rebuilt
Observing blog
My astronomy event photos on Flickr
12 inch Dob
8 inch Celestron C8 Newtonian
4 inch Meade SCT
8x42 Leica binoculars
Various TeleVue eyepieces
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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Your experience is all about your skys. In 6V with my 8 its pretty close to the 8" sketch shown in this thread. Sorry to say no dustlane in 6v skys - maybe 6.5v?
Its a really nice galaxy - just very demanding of a decent sky. I personally wouldnt think about it in any scope in any sky brighter than 6v.
Pete
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Bret Ford
sage
Reged: 07/15/07
Posts: 206
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I observed this galaxy last night/this morning at the Peddler Hill site in the Sierra Nevadas. Skies were mag 6.3-6.5 over the course of my observing session (best SQM-LE reading was 21.7 - pretty dark!). In my 20" it was a well-defined vertical gash in the sky, split through the middle by a dark lane. I observed it with 17 and 13mm EPs. 891 is one of my favorites.
Bret
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Here are my experiences w/ NGC 891 from my notes:
11/29/08 6-7PM LT Blue observing site
Conditions: clear, cold, sliver of Moon set below Venus & Jupiter. Seeing: 3/10 Transparency: 7/10
Instrument: C5
First Time: NGC 891- best view w/ generic 25mm symmetrical @ 63x. This galaxy is larger in area compared to NGC 1023 but dimmer. Averted vision clearly shown the DSO as an edge-on spiral; also extreme averted vision hinted at what appeared to be a band running horizontally through the galaxy. Not going to say for certain I saw this feature but it "felt" like it was there.
Then....
12/14/08 6-7PM LT Blue observing site
Conditions: very windy earlier today. At the time of observing it was mostly clear, no Moon, breeze from the North
Seeing: 4/10 Transparency: 8/10
Instrument: 60mm f/11.7 Towa refractor
NGC 891-seen w/ slight averted vision w/ 32mm symmetrical (22x) and a 19mm 65 degree AFOV eyepiece (37x). This is a fairly difficult galaxy in the 60mm. Perhaps higher power will help?
And...
12/5/08 5:30-7:30PM LT Blue observing site
Conditions: getting colder, near first quarter Moon high in West sky, mostly clear, light breeze.
Seeing: 4/10 Transparency: 6/10 Instrument: 60/700mm
NGC 891- this was a tough one tonight! Never did see it w/ direct vision, only averted vision w/ consentration. A 26mm symmetrical seemed to work the best tonight @ 27x. The Moon did not help!
Finally....
12/15/08 7-8PM LT Blue observing site
Seeing: 8/10 Transparency: 9/10 Instrument: 60/700mm
Conditions: clear, cold, light breeze, no Moon
NGC 891- tonight is the best view yet I have had in the 60mm. Used the 19mm for 37x. The galaxy wasn't even difficult. Held with direct vision for several seconds at a time.
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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Jim Curry
sage
Reged: 10/29/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Maine
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Jeremy and Taras's sketches are similar to mine except the two foreground stars are much closer to the ends. I'm not seeing that longish extension of nebulosity.
Jim
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Vixen 140 refractor
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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Quote:
Here are my experiences w/ NGC 891 from my notes:
11/29/08 6-7PM LT Blue observing site
Conditions: clear, cold, sliver of Moon set below Venus & Jupiter. Seeing: 3/10 Transparency: 7/10
Instrument: C5
First Time: NGC 891- best view w/ generic 25mm symmetrical @ 63x. This galaxy is larger in area compared to NGC 1023 but dimmer. Averted vision clearly shown the DSO as an edge-on spiral; also extreme averted vision hinted at what appeared to be a band running horizontally through the galaxy. Not going to say for certain I saw this feature but it "felt" like it was there.
Brother, you just beat my 8" view. Ive so wanted to see the
d@%$#d band and through 6-6.2v skys, no such luck. I love the way you listed your accounts of the object by the way.
I will say however, and though it was still fringey for you, it does raise my hopes a little that it could one day be something that i will have "felt". There are no new mexico skys in ct though. Some good can be had in pockets, but it aint where you're at.
I'd love to know what color my zone is.
Pete
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Hi Pete, here is a good site to determine what zone you are observing in....
http://www.jshine.net/astronomy/dark_sky/
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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azure1961p
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/17/09
Posts: 731
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Thanks for the link. I added my condo, though I doubt it'll stay if good observing sites are a condition. While it's no surprise to me, the condo is in general city light pollution, I have repeatedly seen 15V in the "peach zone". It's a curious rating system as some of the same areas under the same zone color vary pretty strong. The same can be said abotu the yellow areas. Colebrook CT is dynamite, but another dark site a club uses just aint Colebrook and resembles more of the "peach zone".
I think its a matter of sat resolution. There are good pockets within some of those generalized zones. But, alas, my home is red and there just simply is no denying it. My site in Sherman however is definately yellow.
IT's an interesting thing - tough to know where to define it. But it was fun to see it!!!!
Many thanks!
Pete
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John K
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 797
Loc: Vernon BC Canada
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Here is my sketch of it from a dark site on Friday.
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RASC Member (Okanagan)
Home built 15"F5 Obsession clone
Bushnell 76mm Modified Dob (Little Richie)
Celestron Skymaster 15x70
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Televue Eyepieces 31mmNagler,32mmPL,15mmPL,13mm Ethos,11mm PL,2X Barlow
10mm Speers Waler
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kcolter
member
Reged: 06/04/03
Posts: 87
Loc: Missouri, USA
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I absolutely love NGC 891. It's my good fortune to have a really big Dob (40"f5) under pretty dark skies, NELM 6.1ish. It is quite a sight in that scope. But even in such large aperture, the view I see will vary from night to night with the transparency. When conditions are right I have uttered "be still my heart" when looking at NGC 891. I am greatly impressed by Bill Weir's detection of this galaxy in an 80mm scope, even in extremely dark skies. The other thing about NGC 891 that I am often reminded of when it returns each year is how big it is.
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8273
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
I think you hit the nail on the head with your decision on magnification, although it's not so much the mag but the FOV. I've found that with objects of low surface brightness, adding a little more space around the object helps them stand out.
From a site at 7000', and a SQM reading of 21.65 I've spotted this galaxy with my ED80.
Bill
Well, from a "low" altitude of about 1403 ft. elevation, I have seen NGC 891 (barely), in my cheap little 80mm f/5 "short tube" refractor. It wasn't much (and I was able to find it mainly because I knew precisely where it was), but it was there. I once used the 70mm opening on my variable aperture off-axis stop for my 10 inch Newtonian, and was still able to just barely make out the elongated form of the galaxy at 47x. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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David Pavlich
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 8647
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA 30.22 X 90....
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This was one of those frustrating obects from my typically suburban backyard. When I got my first SC, a 12" Meade LX200 EMC, I could finally see it with direct vision. Never could find it with my Orion XT8.
David
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Proud Member; PAS NOLA,
"If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research..."
A. Einstein
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scopethis
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/30/08
Posts: 625
Loc: Kingman, Ks
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Per notes w/10" SCT @ 178x (Meade UWA 14mm EP), dark observing site: dim long slim glow (streak), somewhat wider at center, ovalish glow. With AV a dark lane seen running through center of streak. Noticed that the more I viewed object the better it becomes. Foreground stars cause a "transparent" view within streak. Not real bright, nothing like the "Outer Limits" pix.
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wfj
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 259
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
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My experience is that the hardest detail of 891 is looking for the bulge - not much luck. The dark lane shows to me more as a function of dark sky than aperture - seen it in 12.5" and 14.5". John K's sketch is dead on to what I see in dark sky, while Jeremy's resembles what I see in my C8 elsewhere.
The other night I was pushing up the power in a blue LP zone, seeing a chink in the lane, some knots ... but no bulge.
Will try my tiny refractors tonite to look for a gray hyphen.
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 10446
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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I had two very memorable views of NGC 891 during the Black Forest Star Party at Cherry Springs State Park last weekend. The first was my best ever view of this galaxy on Friday night through John Vogt's 32" ATM Dob and a 17mm Ethos. NGC 891 filled a good part of the field of view and its dust lane was unmistakable. John got an SQM reading of 21.71 that night. On Saturday night, I viewed NGC 891 in color, no less, through a small video monitor attached to John Homka's 18.5" (yes, that's 18.5") ATM Dob and a color Mallincam. (The views of DSOs such as M8, M16, M17, and M20 were amazing.)
A number of years ago I was able to log NGC 891 at Cherry Springs through my 80mm Orion ShortTube achromat.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
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Old Rookie
member
Reged: 09/05/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Mansfield, Ohio
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I picked this up 9/19/09 through a 12" Skywatcher at 47x and the dustband was visible. Mostly dark skies here 10 miles southeast of Mansfield. Some glow to the northwest and just a tad to the southeast. Searched for about 20 minutes before I changed to the 32mm. Settled down and boom - I had it.
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John
What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger!
Skywatcher 12" Dob - Manual Setting Circles
Richland Astronomical Society
Club Telescope: 31" f/7
Club Telescope: 16" Lightbridge
MegaStar 5
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7331Peg
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 718
Loc: North coast of Oregon
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This is one of those objects that requires a dark, transparent sky. I've seen it several times, including last night in a six inch Antares, which was one of the best views I've had of it. The dust lane was easily seen with averted vision in a 13mm Ethos. There are also several small and dim NGC galaxies adjacent to it.
The only real frustration I had was in star hopping to it. It's easy to get slightly turned around with an equatorial mount, but once I finally got my bearings, it was exactly where the S&T Pocket Atlas said it was.
John
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8273
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
This is one of those objects that requires a dark, transparent sky. I've seen it several times, including last night in a six inch Antares, which was one of the best views I've had of it. The dust lane was easily seen with averted vision in a 13mm Ethos. There are also several small and dim NGC galaxies adjacent to it.
The only real frustration I had was in star hopping to it. It's easy to get slightly turned around with an equatorial mount, but once I finally got my bearings, it was exactly where the S&T Pocket Atlas said it was.
John
With an equatorial mount, I have always found NGC 891 to be a piece of cake. All I do is point the scope to Almach (Gamma Andromedae) and move it about 3.4 degrees due east. This is easy to do even for an undriven mount like my 10 inch has, as all I have to do is use one of my eyepieces that has about a degree's worth of field. Then, I just watch the stars and step-off about three and a half "fields" due east from Almach and I am right there. Another way to do it is to put Almach in the center of the field with any clock drive turned off, and take an 18.4 minute break. By the time you return, the galaxy should be nearly dead-center in the field of view. In contrast to that, at last year's Nebraska Star Party, I had a dickens of a time man-handling Dragan Niken's 25 inch Obsession to try and get NGC 891 in the field. I finally did, but it took a while. However, the view was well worth the effort, as the object looked just like the "Outer Limits" (original series) image although it was still somewhat ghostly in appearance. There is a nice galaxy cluster less than a degree to the southeast of NGC 891 (Abell (AGC) 347), although most of those galaxies are fainter than 13th magnitude and are pretty small. I looked at NGC 891 last night with my 9.25 inch f/10 SCT, and while I could see the dust lane, it was only prominent over the broader nuclear region. I could get hints of some irregularity along the galaxy's length, but not quite the full end-to-end dust lane form seen in some images. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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star drop
Guilty as Charged
Reged: 02/02/08
Posts: 16198
Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
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Quote:
I had two very memorable views of NGC 891 during the Black Forest Star Party at Cherry Springs State Park last weekend. The first was my best ever view of this galaxy on Friday night through John Vogt's 32" ATM Dob and a 17mm Ethos. NGC 891 filled a good part of the field of view and its dust lane was unmistakable. John got an SQM reading of 21.71 that night.
Dave Mitsky
I was surprised at the difference between the 32" and the nearby 28" on NGC 891. In the 28" I know that I saw the entire galaxy inside the field of view but not so in the 32".
The view in the 32" was my best ever view too. My impression was that the end tips of the galaxy were not visible in the eyepiece field of view but that may have been a problem with my eye placement. The detail in the irregular dust lane was amazing with little sinewy spikes poking up and down along its entire length.
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Ted
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LumpyDarkness
sage
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 388
Loc: San Francisco bay area
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Hi Bill,
Glad to see you're enjoying the 16". NGC 891 in mag 5 skies is quite an achievement...
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Mark Wagner
Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
NGC/IC Project
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David Knisely
Postmaster
Reged: 04/19/04
Posts: 8273
Loc: Beatrice, Nebraska
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Quote:
Hi Bill,
Glad to see you're enjoying the 16". NGC 891 in mag 5 skies is quite an achievement...
My home skies are generally in the magnitude 5.3 to 5.8 range. Under those conditions, I can usually find NGC 891 in my 9.25 inch SCT when the object is fairly high up, but it is pretty marginal. My Orion Skyglow filter helps bring up the contrast and makes it easier to see, although it is still more difficult that it is from my rural dark sky site. Clear skies to you.
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David W. Knisely
Hyde Memorial Observatory
http://www.hydeobservatory.info
Prairie Astronomy Club
http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
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wfj
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 259
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
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The past 3 days have been 4.5 to 5. No way with 80mm-14.5" to see 891. Know the star field by heart - looking right at it. Requires an 80 minute drive to get dark enough for the dark lane. It's just too hot, too much skyglow, no fog to douse San Jose's LP. Yuck.
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LumpyDarkness
sage
Reged: 08/06/07
Posts: 388
Loc: San Francisco bay area
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Quote:
The past 3 days have been 4.5 to 5. No way with 80mm-14.5" to see 891. Know the star field by heart - looking right at it. Requires an 80 minute drive to get dark enough for the dark lane. It's just too hot, too much skyglow, no fog to douse San Jose's LP. Yuck.
That's the experience I recall with a 14.5" f/5.6 from my backyard in Los Gatos several years back... mag 5 skies there. Very difficult target in that LP, on the best nights.
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Mark Wagner
Deep Sky Observing Blog
SF Bay Area Observers - TAC
Adventures In Deep Space
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joec33
super member
Reged: 06/13/09
Posts: 111
Loc: Chester, N.Y
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After reading all these great posts about ngc 891 I had to take a look! So I took my dob out and I'm kinda mad I didn't know about it sooner. What a sight! I just can't imagine trying to find it with a 80mm refractor, The man must have some skills!
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An Over accessorized XT10i
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mnev326
member
Reged: 02/06/07
Posts: 62
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This past Saturday a cold front passed through New Jersey and we had the best transparency since May. I would say the skies were about mag 5.3. With my Tectron 15 ncg 891 was not hard but no dust lane. ncg 147 was much harder. The high light of the night was seeing 6 members of the Pegasus I cluster.
Mark
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Got this faint light streak last night using extreme averted vision and lightly tapping the eyepiece. First time detecting NGC 891 this year using the Apex 90 Mak-Cass. Even from an orange zone the sky was pretty transparent with mag 5 stars seen near the zenith. My NE sky is fairly dark in that direction as there are fewer lights. It took me at least 40 minutes of constant observing before I could detect it and I knew exactly where it was!!! First eyepiece I used was a 32mm TV Plossl; however, skyglow with vignetting issues with this scope totally made this combination near useless. Switching to a 26mm Meade Japan Made 4000 series Plossl did darken the background some but I still had the issue of an uneven illuminated FOV to contend with. Given those problems I changed it out with a 19mm 65° eyepiece that gives me ~65x in this scope. I could barely make out the 11.9 mag foreground star where the 891 resides. Switching to a 14mm Meade UWA allowed me to constantly struggle with detecting NGC 891 as the star field drifted through the large FOV at ~90x. At certain times for brief moments using averted vision the galaxy would reveal its existence; however, I wanted to be sure this was not just a reflection detection. At this point I used a 9mm Expanse at ~139x to darken the background further and used my stretchy hat to barricade my eyes from all exterior light. Given the exit pupil size I doubted this combination would be effective. To my surprise this combination allowed me to detect this galaxy the easiest out of all combinations tried. Sure enough the ghostly streak of light from countless number of suns would decloak itself in the exact same place where it was hinted at in the 14mm but I could hold the illusive DSO better and longer with the 9mm Expanse. Did I detect the dark dust lane? LOL, no way with this scope, my skills, and the conditions. I was just happy to detect it at all.
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
Edited by Patricko (09/25/09 01:28 PM)
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Jeremy Perez
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/12/04
Posts: 1930
Loc: Flagstaff, Arizona, USA
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Wow, great report and description of your process, Patrick. Congratulations on spotting it!
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Patricko
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 1532
Loc: SE New Mexico USA
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Thanks Jeremy! Your sketches and detail are just amazing and life like. I always enjoy veiwing them.
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Clear skies,
Patrick
INTERNATIONAL DARK SKY ASSOCIATION
60MM TELESCOPE CLUB!
"You can always have better, but will you ever be happy with what you have?" - Me, myself, and I
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Tim A.
sage
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 236
Loc: 40 30'N 105 3'W
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I caught NGC 891 in September from my best dark site in my 12.5" Dob. After admiring it for a while, I invited a visitor over for a look. This guy hangs around with astronomers (even drove an hour and a half to come out to the dark site!) and has passably good knowledge of the skies even though he has no telescope himself.
His first comment: "Wow! Is that 4565?" Well, we all love NGC 4565 (as monkeys love bananas). He was a season off, but the view really was that good.
And, yeah, that's a dark site. 
-- Tim
Colorado
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Starbuckets 12.5" Dob
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wfj
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 259
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
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A few days ago spotted NGC 891 from Los Gatos with my 14.5". No dark lane, but was extremely lucky to spot it at all, it's been very elusive recently for me. So its worth a try, even if your sky isn't all that dark.
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Tim, to the fella mixing up NGC 4565 with NGC 891..  ..definitely off by a season I would say. I love 891, but as my line under my name says, I love NGC 4565. Its probably my favorite DSO out of them all! I guess I could sort of see the mix up, but the real seasoned fellas really know what their looking at.
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Carol L
Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 6034
Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
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Here's a sketch from about a year ago. My transparency isn't the greatest, but it was better than average on that particular night, which is why i decided to go for it. After trying several eyepieces, i settled on fairly low power.. the galaxy seemed to 'pop' the best that way. 
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markgliderpilot
member
Reged: 09/01/08
Posts: 17
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I'm glad to hear that others find NGC891 somewhat of a challenge. I spent weeks hunting NGC891 with my 8.5" newt without success. Although I observe from a small town, the sky is relatively good M31 and M44 the beehive are regular naked eye objects.
Having failed on numerous attempts, I went outside after a cold front had passed leaving really clear skies. ALmost as a matter of routine, I swung across to Andromeda to look for NGC891 and there it was, a faint cigar of nebulosity right on the limit of visibility and only just with averted vision and deep regular breathing.
Clear skies,
Mark
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Dain
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/24/05
Posts: 1596
Loc: N.Y. Adirondack Mnts. NGC 4565...
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Good to hear you finally caught it, Mark! It is a pretty neat object once in the eyepiece.
Clear Skies to All!
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Best,
Dain
Adirondack Mountains (my true dark sky site)
@ Cedar River Flow
Local Site
Clear Skies?
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Tim A.
sage
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 236
Loc: 40 30'N 105 3'W
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Quote:
... I guess I could sort of see the mix up, but the real seasoned fellas really know what their looking at.
Well, yes, as I said my visitor was "passingly familiar" with the sky, enough at least to know that 4565 is a great sight. But being a full season off (two, really) on location shows he has much still to learn.
Nevertheless, the overall appearance of 891 rivaled, in its dimmer way, the splendor of 4565. I mentioned it mainly to indicate what's possible for 891 under a good sky at a really dark site.
But ... 4565 under those same conditions takes your breath away, no doubt of that!
-- Tim
Colorado
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Starbuckets 12.5" Dob
Celestron CPC800
Celestron CR-150 HD on CG5-GT
Galileoscope
Oberwerk Deluxe II 20x80 & Ultra 10x50
Celestron Regal LX 8x42
Bio-binoculars 1x6
"Me? Crazy? Oh, yeah. Crazy like an ox!"
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JakeSaloranta
sage
Reged: 09/18/08
Posts: 234
Loc: Sisu, Sauna, Sibelius...
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Quote:
Has anyone else reported difficulty seeing this huge faint galaxy?
I saw this from my suburban site yesterday evening. The limiting magnitude in the region was around 5.6 (SQM-L <19). With the 8" dobson the galaxy was only marginally visible @ 32x. This is indeed quite difficult to spot when you have light pollution and don't know what to expect.
/Jake
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